Age of Ultron Age of Ultron SPOILER thread, DO NOT enter if you don't want to be spoiled!!! - Part 3

[Johnny-Oh]

I didn't like the lack of music in the scene when they're trying to lift Thor's hammer, the trailer cut felt funnier tbh

 

[Iceman]

If I am not wrong, he phased his hands into those flying drones at the final battle.

war machine even make an comment about this right after..

Yeah he phased (and that was awesome, loved WM's reaction ), I was talking about the reverse - going super-dense.

 

[Illegal Seafood]

I did not say that the original Avengers would not appear post Civil War. Just that they would not appear in IW Part One. Part Two would focus on them. Your proposal is incredibly short sighted - basically you'd have them wait until all the original actors have left and then try to rebuild. Why not instead think smart, think ahead and set up the ground work for new Avengers before the original actors have used up their contracts? That way if the new Avengers do less well, they actually still have the old actors around to renegotiate with, giving then more time to adjust their plan.

Now potentially you could renegotiate the contracts. But for what? Do they really want to spend millions on a bunch of bored, ageing actors who no longer want to be there, and whose presence stagnates the story? If Marvel can continue to make money without paying RDJ hundreds of millions they will. And they want to test that theory.

Potentially you could recast as well, but then you a.) destroy the MCU's intricate continuity - one of it's main selling points - as you move into "comic book time", and b.) the new actors have to live up to the expectations set by the old ones. What actor can top RDJ's portrayal of Iron Man? Much better to let new actors have a crack at new characters, which they can play without the shadow of their predecessors hanging over them.

I think you're missing the point though.

If you watch the interviews IM, Cap, Thor have done for AOU, questions have come up about their contracts. Both Thor and Cap said they are signed on for both Avengers IW part 1 and 2. And IM worked his contract to be involved in many more films (as he said it may reach close to double digits by the time he's done) so he's probably in IW part 1 and 2 as well.

And then take RDJ. He's been able to re-work his contract at least twice now. Just because people have contracts coming up doesn't mean they can't be renewed.

Again going back to the interviews, Evans has said the success of the films has made him reconsider directing and he wouldn't mind pushing that off in order to do more Avengers/Cap films. Hemsworth had said something similar because he loves the character and doing these movies makes up for doing other, less successful films.

They really aren't going to be that old. Hemsworth is 31, Evans is 33. And what story would they be stagnating? They could easily have a Bucky/Cap film after IW and if Thor becomes King of Asgard, there are plenty of villians to do a film with. Plus there are still Avengers films such as Secret Wars, which could be the follow up to IW if they wanted to go that direction.

 

[Protar]

I think you're missing the point though.

If you watch the interviews IM, Cap, Thor have done for AOU, questions have come up about their contracts. Both Thor and Cap said they are signed on for both Avengers IW part 1 and 2. And IM worked his contract to be involved in many more films (as he said it may reach close to double digits by the time he's done) so he's probably in IW part 1 and 2 as well.

And then take RDJ. He's been able to re-work his contract at least twice now. Just because people have contracts coming up doesn't mean they can't be renewed.

Again going back to the interviews, Evans has said the success of the films has made him reconsider directing and he wouldn't mind pushing that off in order to do more Avengers/Cap films. Hemsworth had said something similar because he loves the character and doing these movies makes up for doing other, less successful films.

They really aren't going to be that old. Hemsworth is 31, Evans is 33. And what story would they be stagnating? They could easily have a Bucky/Cap film after IW and if Thor becomes King of Asgard, there are plenty of villians to do a film with. Plus there are still Avengers films such as Secret Wars, which could be the follow up to IW if they wanted to go that direction.

The contracts certainly could be renegotiated but not indefinitely. Eventually the original actors will leave and others need to be there to pick up the slack. Either you recast - which as I've explained has problems which I think make it an non-viable option - or you bring in new characters. Clearly they're doing the latter at the moment.

I'm not saying the original Avengers cannot appear at all in Part 1, but they will not be a focal point. They may return at the end as a cliffhanger I would imagine. As for RDJs comments about the number of appearances reaching the double digits, that would in fact still put him at the end of his contract by the end of Phase 3 (especially if the rumours about him appearing in Spiderman are true in which case he'd have appeared in 10 films assuming he at least cameos in both IW films).

The original actors leaving at some point is an inevitability. Marvel can either sit there with their thumbs up their bums until everyone has left, or they can plan in advance and test the success of a film with new Avengers. If Infinity War part 1 is successful they probably won't renegotiate contracts and the new Avengers will take over. If it isn't as successful, they'll make renegotiation a priority.

 

[jmc]

I said this a few pages back but I think the biggest problem I've discovered with the team-up concept is there are all these big name characters yet none of them are actually the backbone of the movie. It's essentially one big cast of supporting characters with no one leading. With no real lead hero the villain also suffers, because he/she is not really out to get anyone in particular or be an obstacle for a particular person, and their threats amount to little more than wanting to destroy the world. It's all broad strokes.

 

[Wylie Times]

I'll say again, nobody knows for sure who will or won't appear in Infinity War Part I or how large or small their roles will be. THE SCRIPT ISN'T EVEN FINISHED YET!!

At one point Wasp was set to appear in the First Avengers, that didn't happen.

Hawkeye had a role in Captain America TWS that was cut out.


Also in regards to the length of the contracts. Just because someone is signed to a 5 picture deal doesn't mean Marvel has to put them in 5 movies. It's just to make sure that IF they need a actor for a certain film (even if it's a cameo) the actor is contractually obligated to appear.

Hugo Weaving and Terrence Howard signed multi picture deals with Marvel too...

 

[Illegal Seafood]

I'll say again, nobody knows for sure who will or won't appear in Infinity War Part I or how large or small their roles will be. THE SCRIPT ISN'T EVEN FINISHED YET!!

At one point Wasp was set to appear in the First Avengers, that didn't happen.

Hawkeye had a role in Captain America TWS that was cut out.


Also in regards to the length of the contracts. Just because someone is signed to a 5 picture deal doesn't mean Marvel has to put them in 5 movies. It's just to make sure that IF they need a actor for a certain film (even if it's a cameo) the actor is contractually obligated to appear.

Hugo Weaving and Terrence Howard signed multi picture deals with Marvel too...

Yes, but both Hemsworth and Evans said they have 3 movies left. Their own standalone and both Infinity Wars. So it's not like we are speculating based on nothing. It was said by them.

 

[Illegal Seafood]

The contracts certainly could be renegotiated but not indefinitely. Eventually the original actors will leave and others need to be there to pick up the slack. Either you recast - which as I've explained has problems which I think make it an non-viable option - or you bring in new characters. Clearly they're doing the latter at the moment.

I'm not saying the original Avengers cannot appear at all in Part 1, but they will not be a focal point. They may return at the end as a cliffhanger I would imagine. As for RDJs comments about the number of appearances reaching the double digits, that would in fact still put him at the end of his contract by the end of Phase 3 (especially if the rumours about him appearing in Spiderman are true in which case he'd have appeared in 10 films assuming he at least cameos in both IW films).

The original actors leaving at some point is an inevitability. Marvel can either sit there with their thumbs up their bums until everyone has left, or they can plan in advance and test the success of a film with new Avengers. If Infinity War part 1 is successful they probably won't renegotiate contracts and the new Avengers will take over. If it isn't as successful, they'll make renegotiation a priority.

I agree there is a time and place for a transition to occur, but I just don't see them risking their flagship film property (Avengers) to introduce new characters and relegate the old ones to essentially cameos.

Marvel's plan of introducing new characters has begun already with AOU - SW and Vision. Next is Ant-Man (and Wasp potentially), then Black Panther and Spider-Man in Civil War, then Dr. Strange stand-alone, all leading up to Avengers IW part 1.

I feel like this is the plan to integrate new characters. I agree they probably will be in IW part 1 and 2 in some capacity, but I think the showdown with Thanos is more meaningful for the original Avengers team and GotG, since they have been affected by him for years.

 

[ctsketch]

All the rumours and sources I have seen have said that it will. Fiege has commented at least a few times on the rotating roster. The thing is, by the time Infinity War finishes most of the original cast will have used up their contracts. Plus by that point each main Avenger (Thor, Cap and Iron Man) will have had three films. So Marvel is trying to build a second team over the course of phase 3 which people will have just as much investment in to replace the old characters/actors. And IW part 1 will be their debut.

Phase 3 will see the original Avengers dead, retired or incapacitated leaving the new team to fight Thanos in part 1. Then in Part 2 the original team (plus Captain Marvel) reunites to save the day. It seems like the new team will consist of Scarlet Witch, Vision, War Machine, Falcon, Spiderman, Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Ant-Man and The Winter Soldier.

I mean seriously, did you think they'd make a brand new team and then not show them off?

Yeah,

By the end of Phase 3 we will have Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Dr Strange.

However..after Civil War...Cap's team may not be the same

 

[Hmarrs]

..........

The original actors leaving at some point is an inevitability. Marvel can either sit there with their thumbs up their bums until everyone has left, or they can plan in advance and test the success of a film with new Avengers. If Infinity War part 1 is successful they probably won't renegotiate contracts and the new Avengers will take over. If it isn't as successful, they'll make renegotiation a priority.

I understand what your saying but I truly believe Marvel is fully aware of this.I think with the Avengers as an ever changing roster which helps them as we see them taking some Avengers out and putting others in creating a much bigger and world with a revolving door with a bigger world of supporting Characters.I think they will cross these Bridges as they come to them.Which will make these transitions much smoother...Change is better when its gradual.If someone leaves from the single series of films I believe they will reintroduce the new Actor in an Avengers Film then bleed them off into there own film.Why force it.Look at Mark Raffalo.

I said this a few pages back but I think the biggest problem I've discovered with the team-up concept is there are all these big name characters yet none of them are actually the backbone of the movie. It's essentially one big cast of supporting characters with no one leading. With no real lead hero the villain also suffers, because he/she is not really out to get anyone in particular or be an obstacle for a particular person, and their threats amount to little more than wanting to destroy the world. It's all broad strokes.

While I understand you point of broad strokes but wasnt it that way in the Comics...?

I'll say again, nobody knows for sure who will or won't appear in Infinity War Part I or how large or small their roles will be. THE SCRIPT ISN'T EVEN FINISHED YET!!

At one point Wasp was set to appear in the First Avengers, that didn't happen.

Hawkeye had a role in Captain America TWS that was cut out.


Also in regards to the length of the contracts. Just because someone is signed to a 5 picture deal doesn't mean Marvel has to put them in 5 movies. It's just to make sure that IF they need a actor for a certain film (even if it's a cameo) the actor is contractually obligated to appear.

Hugo Weaving and Terrence Howard signed multi picture deals with Marvel too...

While no one knows I believe this will be there way of bringing into culmination all of there stories and I really don't see why it wouldn't involve all of them.

 

[natey2k4]

They made a new Avengers team because that is Cap's role. To lead. He wasn't leading anyone. Now he is. It also the result of the "breakup". bringing the band back together is the whole idea of the breakup.

Will there be a new Avengers team in Infinity War? Yep. But they will be part of it. They won't be the starts. You think with Evans, Hemsworth, Scarlett, and RDJ around, they will attempt to sell and Avengers movie without them? There will be plenty of characters, as the big hitters like Strange and the Guardians will be showing up.

Oh I know, lets take our three billion dollar franchise, and not bring anyone back for the next sequel. Especially with no Iron Man movie in the works. Come on.

I think it's pretty obvious that the New Avengers will likely do a mission at the start of Civil War that will lead to something very bad, causing the rest of Civil War to unfold into the Final Battle.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I think it's pretty obvious that the New Avengers will likely do a mission at the start of Civil War that will lead to something very bad, causing the rest of Civil War to unfold into the Final Battle.

This seems logical.

 

[Jumpman]

I said this a few pages back but I think the biggest problem I've discovered with the team-up concept is there are all these big name characters yet none of them are actually the backbone of the movie. It's essentially one big cast of supporting characters with no one leading. With no real lead hero the villain also suffers, because he/she is not really out to get anyone in particular or be an obstacle for a particular person, and their threats amount to little more than wanting to destroy the world. It's all broad strokes.

They want Captain America to be that but you they have to deal with the popularity of RDJ.

Listen by the end of this film, if we had not none CIVIL WAR was upon us, you couldn't literally leave Stark behind and follow this mythology with Captain America as the figurehead and I think the cinematic universe would be better for it.

But, and this is my guess, they're deathly afraid of marginalizing RDJ in these films. After what Stark does with Ultron, why would you want that guy on team (hence the reason I've been screaming my head off since IRON MAN 2 for Fury just to use Rhodey. Same damn tech, no ego, and takes orders very well. Best of both worlds.)?

 

[BlackFox]

I think it's pretty obvious that the New Avengers will likely do a mission at the start of Civil War that will lead to something very bad, causing the rest of Civil War to unfold into the Final Battle.

I do like the look of the line up of the new Avengers at the end, something nice a refreshing about it. Could be a good starting point to switch things up even if it turns out to be a short run thing.

 

[Jumpman]

Yeah,

By the end of Phase 3 we will have Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Spider-Man and Dr Strange.

However..after Civil War...Cap's team may not be the same

Yep. All the new characters getting their debut in Phase 3 are all about Marvel extending the MCU past INFINITY WAR PART 2.

Can't do it with the original cast. They have to get the general audience to except these new characters because, with the new Spider-Man, they're going to take the MCU into the future.

So yeah, the band will get back together in INFINITY WAR PART 2. That, theoretically, is the swan song film....and it just so happens to correspond with Feige's contract expiring at the same time.

 

[Protar]

I agree there is a time and place for a transition to occur, but I just don't see them risking their flagship film property (Avengers) to introduce new characters and relegate the old ones to essentially cameos.

Marvel's plan of introducing new characters has begun already with AOU - SW and Vision. Next is Ant-Man (and Wasp potentially), then Black Panther and Spider-Man in Civil War, then Dr. Strange stand-alone, all leading up to Avengers IW part 1.

I feel like this is the plan to integrate new characters. I agree they probably will be in IW part 1 and 2 in some capacity, but I think the showdown with Thanos is more meaningful for the original Avengers team and GotG, since they have been affected by him for years.

The final showdown yes. But there needs to be a film that focuses on the new Avengers otherwise how are they going to get any focus? AoU was already bursting at the seams with 9 Avengers, and there's like 6 more to come. You can't try to cram all of those into one movie. That's the whole reason they're doing two movies in the first place imo.

Like do you really think they're building up Dr. Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel etc. so that they can cameo in IW while the old timers do all the work?

 

[ctsketch]

Some Avengers HAVE to bite the dust in IW.....or else...well...yeah...wtf...

I bet theyd do something like in the comics and use the gauntlet to bring them all back, haha

 

[Hmarrs]

I think it's pretty obvious that the New Avengers will likely do a mission at the start of Civil War that will lead to something very bad, causing the rest of Civil War to unfold into the Final Battle.

Couldn't it just be what just happend with Ultron and Tony Starks remorse and him trying to redeem himself for Heroes acting on there own Unpoliced.Starting with himself.You have to admit that's a good incentive for him.

The final showdown yes. But there needs to be a film that focuses on the new Avengers otherwise how are they going to get any focus? AoU was already bursting at the seams with 9 Avengers, and there's like 6 more to come. You can't try to cram all of those into one movie. That's the whole reason they're doing two movies in the first place imo.
Like do you really think they're building up Dr. Strange, Black Panther, Captain Marvel etc. so that they can cameo in IW while the old timers do all the work?

Couldn't it be that that with Dr.Strange coming in it could be a Defenders build up?Add to that... Hulk with leaving as well as he was a member in that team as well.Sort of how it happened in the Comics because if you want to take the Hulk in that direction you have to have Dr.Strange established.
Like somebody on here said you can not have too many heroes in one film so the only obvious solution would be to make two teams even if its not the "West Coast" Avengers.The Defenders would be the next logical choice with the Characters overlapping each other.
Bottom line these guys(MARVEL) aren't trying to build a Genre they are trying to build a Universe ergo.the reason the opened up space to us from the very first Avengers and then took us right into "Guardians of the Galaxy"...Which I thought was mistake at the time especially becuase I thought the idea would be Hokey especially Guardians of the Galaxy...But I was mistaken.I didn't understand it at the time but I understand it now.The opened up the Universe literally from the beginning.
I would think its the complete opposite of what DC has done..Dc kept themselves in the Batman/Superman box for so long that now they are having a hard time breaking out of that box.
While the Nolan Batman where great they left no room for a loophole to use Characters such as Clayface or Killer Croc without seeming Hokey. while keeping its tone.the Animated Series did well in keeping that balance.

 

[Protar]

Couldn't it just be what just happend with Ultron and Tony Starks remorse and him trying to redeem himself for Heroes acting on there own Unpoliced.Starting with himself.You have to admit that's a good incentive for him.

Couldn't it be that that with Dr.Strange coming in it could be a Defenders build up?Add to that... Hulk with leaving as well as he was a member in that team as well.Sort of how it happened in the Comics because if you want to take the Hulk in that direction you have to have Dr.Strange established.
Like somebody on here said you can not have too many heroes in one film so the only obvious solution would be to make two teams even if its not the "West Coast" Avengers.The Defenders would be the next logical choice with the Characters overlapping each other.
Bottom line these guys(MARVEL) aren't trying to build a Genre they are trying to build a Universe ergo.the reason the opened up space to us from the very first Avengers and then took us right into "Guardians of the Galaxy"...Which I thought was mistake at the time especially becuase I thought the idea would be Hokey especially Guardians of the Galaxy...But I was mistaken.I didn't understand it at the time but I understand it now.The opened up the Universe literally from the beginning.
I would think its the complete opposite of what DC has done..Dc kept themselves in the Batman/Superman box for so long that now they are having a hard time breaking out of that box.
While the Nolan Batman where great they left no room for a loophole to use Characters such as Clayface or Killer Croc without seeming Hokey. while keeping its tone.the Animated Series did well in keeping that balance.

I'm confused as to what you're saying. They are already doing the Defenders on Netflix with the Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist series. We're getting a new Avengers team in addition to that.

 

[Mjölnir]

The gem also seems to include the blueprints for an AI, the whole thing with the sceptre is kinda nuts

Intelligence comes from the mind so that seems logical to me. The mind gem holds the key to create a new mind.

As for the twins, the gem probably unlocked something already in them. The MCU has already established that there are many people with gifts not yet unlocked.

 

[Hmarrs]

I'm confused as to what you're saying. They are already doing the Defenders on Netflix with the Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist series. We're getting a new Avengers team in addition to that.

Yes I understand and I know that and all the more reason to begin establishing it on the small screen maybe Defenders on a Larger scale including those very same members.Which by the way aren't or weren't those Characters originally called...(MARVEL KNIGHTS AND BEFORE THAT HEROES FOR HIRE?)...
So why are they calling them the Defenders??? PLUS there's already talk of Daredevil coming to the big screen.
Again Marvel sees it all as one...ONE GIANT UNIVERSE...AGENTS OF SHIELD AND PEGGY CARTER..FROM THE BIG SCREEN TO THE SMALL AND THEN FROM SMALL TO BIG ARE THEY NOT ESTABLISHING THE INHUMANS ON AGENTS Of SHIELD???...So from there aren't they planning an INHUMANS MOVIE?
Also and Besides if you can have 2 Avengers Teams why not to Defenders?
But I think its a build up for one and the same.

Sorry for the Caps I wasn't yelling just wanted that part to stand out in contrast.

 

[Protar]

Yes I understand and I know that and all the more reason to begin establishing it on the small screen maybe Defenders on a Larger scale including those very same members.Which by the way aren't or weren't those Characters originally called...(MARVEL KNIGHTS AND BEFORE THAT HEROES FOR HIRE?)...
So why are they calling them the Defenders??? PLUS there's already talk of Daredevil coming to the big screen.
Again Marvel sees it all as one...ONE GIANT UNIVERSE...AGENTS OF SHIELD AND PEGGY CARTER..FROM THE BIG SCREEN TO THE SMALL AND THEN FROM SMALL TO BIG ARE THEY NOT ESTABLISHING THE INHUMANS ON AGENTS Of SHIELD???...So from there aren't they planning an INHUMANS MOVIE?
Also and Besides if you can have 2 Avengers Teams why not to Defenders?
But I think its a build up for one and the same.

Sorry for the Caps I wasn't yelling just wanted that part to stand out in contrast.

I don't disagree with you but I'm really not sure how any of this relates to whether or not the new Avengers team will get their own movie or not.

 

[Iceman]

I said this a few pages back but I think the biggest problem I've discovered with the team-up concept is there are all these big name characters yet none of them are actually the backbone of the movie. It's essentially one big cast of supporting characters with no one leading. With no real lead hero the villain also suffers, because he/she is not really out to get anyone in particular or be an obstacle for a particular person, and their threats amount to little more than wanting to destroy the world. It's all broad strokes.

This comes down to preference I think. Some prefer one main hero and one main villain, with an epic one on one mental and physical battle throughout the film. My preference has always been more towards teams and through comics and films I've rarely been left disappointed. It seems a lot of the GA are ok with this format given that X-films are still around with Furious going from strength to strength adding ever more characters, LotR, Pirates, even the new Star Wars etc. It does add a lot of complications in focus, pacing and characterisation which make it more of a challenge to impress critics but the benefits to scale been making up for some of that to the GA at least. It's not for everyone but I guess many of those who are going to find this type of film less appealing know by now and don't always go to see these films.

 

[Hmarrs]

I don't disagree with you but I'm really not sure how any of this relates to whether or not the new Avengers team will get their own movie or not.

Ok I see your point very possible on the second Avengers team getting there own moive or maybe possibly Tv series they will you still have a plethera of Heroes that will need a place what I'm saying is there no reason why there wouldn't be a Defenders film...or connection to the Netflix series or second team only because the Strange being established and Hulk leaving you know.
I don't know if you get what Im saying.
Shield is both established on both Big and Small screens.

 

[hoy-small-fry]

Intelligence comes from the mind so that seems logical to me. The mind gem holds the key to create a new mind.

I suppose, but we still don't know the extent of what the Mind Gem does exactly. Stark finding an AI inside it seemed like such a random convenience