Age of Ultron Age of Ultron SPOILER thread, DO NOT enter if you don't want to be spoiled!!! - Part 4

[Blade X]

The whole Mandarin thing is pretty encouraging to me as to the chances of Pietro coming back.

And just going from my friends who have seen it, Quicksilver resonated VERY well with audiences. Which is where the MCU's long habit of having their characters cheat death is going to cause problems. When so many people have come back from the dead, it's expected that a major character like Pietro will be back, espically with how well-recieved he was.

A friend of mine (who is currently a manager of a gaming/comic shop, told me that most of his customers liked QS in the movie and were pissed that he was killed off.

 

[TJByrum]

It's good people get mad/pissed that QS died. That was the point, right? Try to evoke a sense of danger in the movie.

They did it perfectly with Coulson in Avengers 1, but threw all that in the trash can when they revived him on Agents of SHIELD.

 

[PunyGod]

Even when I saw it the first time I never thought he was retiring. He ended the film saying I Am Iron Man. The suits and shrapnel are not what made him Iron Man which is why he initiated the clean slate program which is what I got out of it. What I got from the end of AoU felt more like a retirement to me.

I tried to continue listening to the public podcast but I tapped out. When they are asking "why Ultron need Vibranium" and "why is he lifting up a city" I can't continue. I thought it was pretty clear why he did and needed those things.

You are putting too much emphasis on his last line and ignoring everything he said before it.

"My armor was never a distraction or a hobby. It was a cocoon. And now I'm a changed man. You can take away my house, all my tricks and toys. But the one thing you can't take away: I am Iron Man."

To me this pretty clearly says he is breaking out of his cocoon (ie. his suits) and moving on with his life. And in the next part he is saying even without his toys he will still be a hero. I am still an Iron Man even though I am no longer IRON MAN.

 

[Imperial]

It's good people get mad/pissed that QS died. That was the point, right? Try to evoke a sense of danger in the movie.

They did it perfectly with Coulson in Avengers 1, but threw all that in the trash can when they revived him on Agents of SHIELD.

No, I think the point they were going for is sadness...but missed the mark and got annoyance due to his lack of development.

 

[ssj wolverine]

Just got back from seeing the movie finally. Loved it. Was afraid the Natasha, Banner relationship would be ridiculous. While I could have done without it because it came out of nowhere it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. My biggest fear was all the Avengers would be against Tony since this will lead into Civil War. But it wasn't too bad. Don't know how they will build the animosity between Stark and Cap since they parted on good terms in AoU. LOVED the Vision. I feel this is now the best superhero movie.

AoU >> Ironman 1 >> Captain America WS >> Avengers >> GotG >> etc..etc...

 

[sueb1863]

No, I think the point they were going for is sadness...but missed the mark and got annoyance due to his lack of development.

Yeah, that's what I think, too. I've seen films where characters die and it is genuinely sad and tragic, but it's also necessary for the way the story needs to go. This wasn't one of those films. His death seemed like just a pointless ploy. He didn't NEED to die, the plot wouldn't have been one bit different if he'd lived, as proven by the fact they filmed an alternate ending where he survived. Whedon did it for no good reason other than, well, someone had to die. Now he's thrown away a promising character, and from the sounds of quotes from Feige, it's permanent. So yeah, instead of being sad, it's just annoying.

By the way, nobody died permanently in Winter Soldier, and I got a MUCH higher sense of danger and high stakes in that movie than in this one. That was due to the great writing and pacing, which weren't present for this movie. If it had been better written and paced, they wouldn't have had to kill anybody to add a sense of danger. You can do that without needlessly killing characters "just because".

 

[TJByrum]

Well yeah, sadness. I was kind of mixing that up with the whole 'mad' thing, but that's what I was trying to get out.

But looking back, yeah I can see why people would get annoyed. The relationship between him and Wanda was displayed pretty well in the movie, and you know it really dealt a hard blow to her. That's what made me feel bad about it.

By the way, nobody died permanently in Winter Soldier, and I got a MUCH higher sense of danger and high stakes in that movie than in this one. That was due to the great writing and pacing, which weren't present for this movie. If it had been better written and paced, they wouldn't have had to kill anybody to add a sense of danger. You can do that without needlessly killing characters "just because".

I think what evoked the sense of danger in that movie was the relentlessness of the Winter Soldier. Every time he was on screen he just walked forward, never stopping, and just unleashed hell. There was literally nothing holding him back. He just kept pushing forward, no matter what came to him. He seemed so relentless and brutal.

 

[X Knight]

I admit...........I cried when QS died.............

I knew it was coming, too, because I read spoilers.

But I still felt sad when it happened.

 

[X Knight]

also, I had to step out during this part, but what happened with Thor and that pool?

I just caught the tail end of it.

 

[DOBSON10]

I like to wait for the crowds to die down so I just went and saw this today, instead of opening week. Good movie but comes off like a filler episode in a season of a TV show. Something to keep the story going but not as high of quality as the better episodes. Speaking of the plot, decision making and importance to the rest of the MCU. The SFX quality is still incredible.

It's not that it's a bad storyline really, it just kind of feels flat and disjointed in terms of progressing the MCU and carrying on from previous movies. The movie starts with the team thrown back together without much explanation of why or how long they have been working together since Avengers 1. I mean, they give you a quick explanation that does make sense for the most part and it's not too hard to fill in the blanks. We do know what some of the characters have been doing because of solo movies inbetween and we know from the end of the Winter Soldier that Baron Strucker has the scepter and Fury wants to take down the last of the Hydra leftovers but it just feels rushed for them to be together in the first scene. It's not the end of world, just seems like it would have been better to work into that alittle slower. Not a huge buildup or anything but just a couple of scenes to flesh it out better. When it was mentioned in Winter Soldier, I didn't expect the whole Avengers team to go track down these last Hydra cells. Not a hug gripe, just part of why the movie felt alittle disjointed to me.

One part inparticular about showing them together without really explaining it in much detail leads to the biggest flaw in the movie, which is the Bruce Banner and Black Window romance. It's completely out of nowhere, it's incredibly forced and just doesn't seem like something that would ever happen. It was almost like they said "love/a lost interest is the only thing that can get the Hulk to settle down and return to human form so since Widow is the only female on the team, we'll make it be her and they'll become a couple". We now know that "The Incredible Hulk" is without a doubt still part of the MCU (never thought it wasn't but they have kind of gone out of their way to ignore it, understandably so because of the recast), since General Ross is coming back, so what happened to Betty Ross? Regardless of that, what about Bruce and Window being together really makes sense? I didn't feel any chemistry between them during this movie. It just felt weird seeing Window fawning over Bruce, out of character for her in general and weird because they seem like the oddest pairing they could have came up with for her. Plus, whether it made sense or not, or they had chemistry or not, it's just not a decision I agree with. Complete waste of time and shouldn't have made the final cut IMO.

Another thing that felt out of nowhere and forced was obviously Hawkeye's secret family. I was one of the people who wanted to see more of Hawkeye this go round but I was hoping for him to be a more integral part of the team, not some silly side plot like this which added literally nothing to the story to be honest. I was hoping for him to have more of a voice in the team discussions and be a bigger factor in the action/plot, not some spin-off subplot.

Moving on to the Ultron plotline, it just seemed kind of run of the mil and a bit dull. I certainly wouldn't call it bad, but again it just felt like a filler episode of a Television show. Ultron didn't feel like a massive threat, despite the fact that his plan would have caused an extinction level event. It felt very contained to Sokovia, which made the threat fill less substantial. The character of Ultron itself, felt very conflicted, it was like Ultron had several different personalities and was mostly making the plan up as he went along. I think they should have spent more time on why he turned against the Avengers in the first place and more time on him building his Army and constructing his plan. Also, I've never been a big fan of James Spader, he didn't feel very menacing with his voiceover work outside of his first scene at the party, it was just hard to take him seriously when he sounds like he's constantly trying to make you laugh instead of intimidate you. Just came off as a weak villain and was defeated relatively easily to the point where he even says "Oh for god's shake" at the end of the movie, because they just manhandled him and his Army.

I liked the characterization of the Twins with the exception of their motivation for joining forces with Ultron. Ok, I get that they wanted to make Tony Stark pay for what happened to them and their family but they just join forces with Ultron with even questioning it? I feel like they should have been smart enough to not trust this A.I. Robot and see through his plan instantly, immediately dismissing joining in on his mission. I think it could have worked better had they been their own antagonist against Tony (thus, also having to deal with the Avengers to get to Tony), which Ultron could then use to his advantage as a distraction and way to split the Avengers attention between what he was planning and what The Twins were doing to try to hurt/kill Tony. Otherwise I thought the Twins were pretty good, Scarlett Witch I thought was great and the standout of the new/additional cast.

Also didn't care for Thor's plotline, obviously we've heard his scenes were cut but it just felt stupid in general and unnecessary. The whole vision quest thing has never been an interesting story trope to me and it comes off as cheesy and lazy. He didn't need to be a part of the reason Vision was created and I hate how that sub-plot led to Thor's discerning the fact that someone seems to be manipulating the Infinity Stones behind the scenes. I would have much rather preferred that Thanos be a complete surprise to the Avengers when he starts to attack people who are in possession of the Stones. Now it seems Thor will go on a mission to find out who is behind the scenes and learn it for himself, I just like the surprise attack angle so much more. I think that addition was kind of thrown in there because I think Thanos is going to have a fairly sizable role in Thor 3, which is why they have mentioned that Thor: Ragnorak will be such an important movie for the lead up to the Infinity Wars.

I thought Tony's characterization was a touch confusing, considering his quote from the first Avengers movie about "yeah, because a Nuclear deterrent is always a good idea" and now he's doing exactly that. BUT I'll give that a pass since it also does coincide with his recent history of PTSD because of the battle of New York and the dream sequence he had when Scarlett Witch was messing with everyone's heads, also given that at the end of Iron Man 3 he wanted to take a step back and since then he appears to be creating an end game, at least for himself, to get out (creating Iron Legion/hopes to create Ultron as a peace keeper). Just felt alittle off but it wasn't without context.

I don't know much about Vision as I'm not a huge comic book reader overall but I thought his creation was kind of clunky. Is that his origin from the comics, because I really didn't care for it or the character itself in the end. I already miss J.A.R.V.I.S. as Tony's armor A.I. and the Vision character just seems overbearingly pretentious and uninteresting because of how non-human he is. Despite being incredibly powerful, honestly, too powerful in some ways, he still feels very off-brand and B-List to me. I don't know, I just don't care for the character in general, at least so far.

All that said, I'm a huge action movie fan so this movie gave me what I was hoping for in that regard. Lots of great action sequences and impressive SFX. It was a good movie, it was entertaining but there were just some decisions made that I really didn't care for, which outside of Iron Man 3 has been basically non-existent for me in the MCU, I've liked the large majority of the decisions on how to progress the story and where to take each character. Only exceptions before this movie were Jane instead of Sif (just Jane in general actually) and pretty much the entire Iron Man 3 movie particularly the Mandarin fake-out. Otherwise they had been hitting all the story points and making decisions that made sense and were very interesting.

Overall it's a good action blockbuster but I wouldn't put it up there with Avengers 1 or Iron Man 1, which are still my favorite MCU movies.

 

[Jaxon]

You are putting too much emphasis on his last line and ignoring everything he said before it.

"My armor was never a distraction or a hobby. It was a cocoon. And now I'm a changed man. You can take away my house, all my tricks and toys. But the one thing you can't take away: I am Iron Man."

To me this pretty clearly says he is breaking out of his cocoon (ie. his suits) and moving on with his life. And in the next part he is saying even without his toys he will still be a hero. I am still an Iron Man even though I am no longer IRON MAN.

Maybe that's what he thought at the point, but after that SHIELD collapsed and HYDRA was in the frame. What else would he do?

 

[Jaxon]

Just got back from seeing the movie finally. Loved it. Was afraid the Natasha, Banner relationship would be ridiculous. While I could have done without it because it came out of nowhere it wasn't as bad as I thought it was. My biggest fear was all the Avengers would be against Tony since this will lead into Civil War. But it wasn't too bad. Don't know how they will build the animosity between Stark and Cap since they parted on good terms in AoU. LOVED the Vision. I feel this is now the best superhero movie.

AoU >> Ironman 1 >> Captain America WS >> Avengers >> GotG >> etc..etc...

OK let's finally cover this Widow/Banner relationship.

Widow is hugely damaged as was well explained in her recalling of her upbringing. She (as a spy) would have spent a large portion of her life sleeping with bad guys for info. we're not talking six packed jacked up dudes, we're talking fat mob bosses and the like. She is damaged goods.
She has 2 ways to go in relationships. Go the polar opposite, eg a stable home loving guy to escape it all. Well that never lasts. Or go for a guy she knows she can never be with because she has practiced her life in escapism anyway. Bam, that's why Banner is the obvious target for her. He's the guy she can never have, she knows it, she's just trying to convince herself she could be in a relationship but knows deep down she can't.

 

[Tech]

I'm glad they added another female Avengers character.....Black Widow isn't portrayed in a positive light if her true asset to the team is literally her romantic relationships.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I like to wait for the crowds to die down so I just went and saw this today, instead of opening week. Good movie but comes off like a filler episode in a season of a TV show. Something to keep the story going but not as high of quality as the better episodes. Speaking of the plot, decision making and importance to the rest of the MCU. The SFX quality is still incredible.

It's not that it's a bad storyline really, it just kind of feels flat and disjointed in terms of progressing the MCU and carrying on from previous movies. The movie starts with the team thrown back together without much explanation of why or how long they have been working together since Avengers 1. I mean, they give you a quick explanation that does make sense for the most part and it's not too hard to fill in the blanks. We do know what some of the characters have been doing because of solo movies inbetween and we know from the end of the Winter Soldier that Baron Strucker has the scepter and Fury wants to take down the last of the Hydra leftovers but it just feels rushed for them to be together in the first scene. It's not the end of world, just seems like it would have been better to work into that alittle slower. Not a huge buildup or anything but just a couple of scenes to flesh it out better. When it was mentioned in Winter Soldier, I didn't expect the whole Avengers team to go track down these last Hydra cells. Not a hug gripe, just part of why the movie felt alittle disjointed to me.

One part inparticular about showing them together without really explaining it in much detail leads to the biggest flaw in the movie, which is the Bruce Banner and Black Window romance. It's completely out of nowhere, it's incredibly forced and just doesn't seem like something that would ever happen. It was almost like they said "love/a lost interest is the only thing that can get the Hulk to settle down and return to human form so since Widow is the only female on the team, we'll make it be her and they'll become a couple". We now know that "The Incredible Hulk" is without a doubt still part of the MCU (never thought it wasn't but they have kind of gone out of their way to ignore it, understandably so because of the recast), since General Ross is coming back, so what happened to Betty Ross? Regardless of that, what about Bruce and Window being together really makes sense? I didn't feel any chemistry between them during this movie. It just felt weird seeing Window fawning over Bruce, out of character for her in general and weird because they seem like the oddest pairing they could have came up with for her. Plus, whether it made sense or not, or they had chemistry or not, it's just not a decision I agree with. Complete waste of time and shouldn't have made the final cut IMO.

Another thing that felt out of nowhere and forced was obviously Hawkeye's secret family. I was one of the people who wanted to see more of Hawkeye this go round but I was hoping for him to be a more integral part of the team, not some silly side plot like this which added literally nothing to the story to be honest. I was hoping for him to have more of a voice in the team discussions and be a bigger factor in the action/plot, not some spin-off subplot.

Moving on to the Ultron plotline, it just seemed kind of run of the mil and a bit dull. I certainly wouldn't call it bad, but again it just felt like a filler episode of a Television show. Ultron didn't feel like a massive threat, despite the fact that his plan would have caused an extinction level event. It felt very contained to Sokovia, which made the threat fill less substantial. The character of Ultron itself, felt very conflicted, it was like Ultron had several different personalities and was mostly making the plan up as he went along. I think they should have spent more time on why he turned against the Avengers in the first place and more time on him building his Army and constructing his plan. Also, I've never been a big fan of James Spader, he didn't feel very menacing with his voiceover work outside of his first scene at the party, it was just hard to take him seriously when he sounds like he's constantly trying to make you laugh instead of intimidate you. Just came off as a weak villain and was defeated relatively easily to the point where he even says "Oh for god's shake" at the end of the movie, because they just manhandled him and his Army.

I liked the characterization of the Twins with the exception of their motivation for joining forces with Ultron. Ok, I get that they wanted to make Tony Stark pay for what happened to them and their family but they just join forces with Ultron with even questioning it? I feel like they should have been smart enough to not trust this A.I. Robot and see through his plan instantly, immediately dismissing joining in on his mission. I think it could have worked better had they been their own antagonist against Tony (thus, also having to deal with the Avengers to get to Tony), which Ultron could then use to his advantage as a distraction and way to split the Avengers attention between what he was planning and what The Twins were doing to try to hurt/kill Tony. Otherwise I thought the Twins were pretty good, Scarlett Witch I thought was great and the standout of the new/additional cast.

Also didn't care for Thor's plotline, obviously we've heard his scenes were cut but it just felt stupid in general and unnecessary. The whole vision quest thing has never been an interesting story trope to me and it comes off as cheesy and lazy. He didn't need to be a part of the reason Vision was created and I hate how that sub-plot led to Thor's discerning the fact that someone seems to be manipulating the Infinity Stones behind the scenes. I would have much rather preferred that Thanos be a complete surprise to the Avengers when he starts to attack people who are in possession of the Stones. Now it seems Thor will go on a mission to find out who is behind the scenes and learn it for himself, I just like the surprise attack angle so much more. I think that addition was kind of thrown in there because I think Thanos is going to have a fairly sizable role in Thor 3, which is why they have mentioned that Thor: Ragnorak will be such an important movie for the lead up to the Infinity Wars.

I thought Tony's characterization was a touch confusing, considering his quote from the first Avengers movie about "yeah, because a Nuclear deterrent is always a good idea" and now he's doing exactly that. BUT I'll give that a pass since it also does coincide with his recent history of PTSD because of the battle of New York and the dream sequence he had when Scarlett Witch was messing with everyone's heads, also given that at the end of Iron Man 3 he wanted to take a step back and since then he appears to be creating an end game, at least for himself, to get out (creating Iron Legion/hopes to create Ultron as a peace keeper). Just felt alittle off but it wasn't without context.

I don't know much about Vision as I'm not a huge comic book reader overall but I thought his creation was kind of clunky. Is that his origin from the comics, because I really didn't care for it or the character itself in the end. I already miss J.A.R.V.I.S. as Tony's armor A.I. and the Vision character just seems overbearingly pretentious and uninteresting because of how non-human he is. Despite being incredibly powerful, honestly, too powerful in some ways, he still feels very off-brand and B-List to me. I don't know, I just don't care for the character in general, at least so far.

All that said, I'm a huge action movie fan so this movie gave me what I was hoping for in that regard. Lots of great action sequences and impressive SFX. It was a good movie, it was entertaining but there were just some decisions made that I really didn't care for, which outside of Iron Man 3 has been basically non-existent for me in the MCU, I've liked the large majority of the decisions on how to progress the story and where to take each character. Only exceptions before this movie were Jane instead of Sif (just Jane in general actually) and pretty much the entire Iron Man 3 movie particularly the Mandarin fake-out. Otherwise they had been hitting all the story points and making decisions that made sense and were very interesting.

Overall it's a good action blockbuster but I wouldn't put it up there with Avengers 1 or Iron Man 1, which are still my favorite MCU movies.

you should have posted this in the review thread. and i agree with a lot of the things you said.

 

[PunyGod]

Maybe that's what he thought at the point, but after that SHIELD collapsed and HYDRA was in the frame. What else would he do?

He could at least give a single line of dialogue to acknowledge his reversal.

A prequel comic to explain it would have been enough to satisfy me.

I just can't give them a pass for glossing over this major change in character given Marvel's "It's All Connected" mantra.

 

[X Knight]

I actually didn't mind the Natasha/Bruce romance.

Yeah, it was kind of random, but I bought into her explanation for being attracted to him.

 

[kvz5]

The Bruce/Natasha thing would've worked so much better if there was buildup to it. The attraction made sense but it just came out of nowhere.

 

[Tony Stark]

The Bruce/Natasha thing would've worked so much better if there was buildup to it. The attraction made sense but it just came out of nowhere.

I could see this, especially if you were coming in cold to the movie. I knew about the romance from reviews, so I was prepared for it, so it didn't seem quite so out of left field, but they go from the "do you trust me" scene on the quinjet to freaking Casablanca at the party scene.

Maybe in the extended cut there's a scene that bridges those two scenes together.

 

[Broseph44]

Didn't really come out of nowhere to me, I dunno I didn't think it needed a "build up"

 

[Raiden]

Didn't really come out of nowhere to me, I dunno I didn't think it needed a "build up"

I think my problem with the Bruce/Natasha romance is that just last year, Natasha and Steve have had some major chemistry in TWS, and while they didn't fall in love or anything, you felt like Natasha had a thing for Steve if not for him still pinning for Peggy. And all of a sudden, she not only likes Bruce but became the proactive one in this budding romance. I know why Whedon did it, because she was the pacifist who calms Hulk and it sort of explained the ending, but just like BW's change of head style it seems like Whedon just did it because he wanted to.

 

[jaqua99]

I think my problem with the Bruce/Natasha romance is that just last year, Natasha and Steve have had some major chemistry in TWS, and while they didn't fall in love or anything, you felt like Natasha had a thing for Steve if not for him still pinning for Peggy. And all of a sudden, she not only likes Bruce but became the proactive one in this budding romance. I know why Whedon did it, because she was the pacifist who calms Hulk and it sort of explained the ending, but just like BW's change of head style it seems like Whedon just did it because he wanted to.

This. So much. It came out of left field. I found it cringeworthy, one of my few complaints about the movie. In fact I heard a few sighs during the bar tending scene. She came off as a stereotypical horny girl chasing her crush. I felt uncomfortable watching it. It didn't seem to be the direction to go for her character

 

[Mjölnir]

You are putting too much emphasis on his last line and ignoring everything he said before it.

"My armor was never a distraction or a hobby. It was a cocoon. And now I'm a changed man. You can take away my house, all my tricks and toys. But the one thing you can't take away: I am Iron Man."

To me this pretty clearly says he is breaking out of his cocoon (ie. his suits) and moving on with his life. And in the next part he is saying even without his toys he will still be a hero. I am still an Iron Man even though I am no longer IRON MAN.

It's open to interpretation but it's a bit foolish, or just hardheaded, to stick with the interpretation that no longer makes sense when we've gotten the answer. That reaches the point where one have stopped trying to find the truth and instead just wants to be right.

 

[Spiderine]

Judging from Steve's comments at the party something had been building between the two when The Avengers reassembled for the Hydra missions. He was teasing Banner with knowing something was up with Natasha. I didn't really have a problem with it since a considerable amount of time seemed to have passed if they have been taking down bases all over the world. I mean how many missions have the team completed? You have to accept the fact that story progression takes place in between these films. Just like Falcon working on the missing person case while Cap deals with Avengers.

 

[drod1985]

It's open to interpretation but it's a bit foolish, or just hardheaded, to stick with the interpretation that no longer makes sense when we've gotten the answer. That reaches the point where one have stopped trying to find the truth and instead just wants to be right.

If there was a "like" button on this forum I'd be pressing it right now.

 

[sdc10]

It's good people get mad/pissed that QS died. That was the point, right? Try to evoke a sense of danger in the movie.

They did it perfectly with Coulson in Avengers 1, but threw all that in the trash can when they revived him on Agents of SHIELD.

Ya, personally I would have been more ok with it had the Coulson on AoS been a LMD who thought he was the actual Coulson or something along those lines. But just the fact thats it was "nope, he died and we just revived" him really ruined it for me. That's one of the reasons I couldn't enjoy the show and just kind of ignore it. I mean Im willing to bet we will never see Coulson in the movies again anyways.