Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 3x14 - "Watchdogs" - Discussion Thread

[KingCheops]

HYDRA is non existent in the Netflix world and was absent in season two of Agent Carter.

I thought it was pretty explicit that the Council was part of Hydra given that the Arena Club pin was pretty much exactly the same as the Maveth Program Logo.

 

[just one thing]

liked the way fitz looked uncomfortable when skye was coercing intelligence from the bloke in the truck. Something going on there. Concidering she started out as a civil liberties hold authority to account believer and now the trajectory she is on. Or could be a case of daughters ending up like their mothers.


would be an interesting line if used in the show by hydra 'we are not behind everything'. But makes sense in this story i think. The common denominator for leaders of hydra seems to be rich people and unless skye with her do it your self attitude picks up a bit of marx and engals there will always be rich people in the mcu.

 

[fixxxer]

The comics had an Inhuman turn into a door and into an engine, so this isn't crazy.

Yea, I get that. However, the show has not established that kind of baseline in terms for Terregenisis. Wait a sec, a door and an engine, you say? I'm not sure I ever want to go there in the MCU.

Getting back to the point, I'm not saying it's a fatal flaw or anything... just a moderately questionable decision that could've (and should've) been cleared up pretty easily at this point.

 

[Uskok]

I thought it was pretty explicit that the Council was part of Hydra given that the Arena Club pin was pretty much exactly the same as the Maveth Program Logo.

Michele Fazekas said that the Council of Nine is not connected to HYDRA.

 

[javonstokess]

Weird that people some people are complaining about mentions to events in other Marvel shows.

Isnt' that what we all want?

 

[Zarex]

Weird that people some people are complaining about mentions to events in other Marvel shows.

Isnt' that what we all want?

It's what I thought I wanted. I remember seeing the Avengers references in the initial ads for AOS and getting pumped for the MCU's entry into network television.

In reality - not so much. The references to the cinematic world often are forced into the dialogue as fan service, and the virtually non existent links between the TV and film worlds are a frustration to many fans, myself included. It gives the impression that the writers are less than confident in the story they are presenting and feel the need to tie it into the much more popular films.

AOS mentioning the Avengers is similar to how the Supergirl program treats Superman. He (or they) are not showing up on the show, so why do you keep talking about him? The Netflix shows handle this much better than the network programs, imo.

 

[Guard82]

I personally have no problem at all with the various MCU references made throughout this show. I enjoy them personally because they capture the imagination with respect to just how large and intricate the Marvel Cinematic Universe really is.

 

[javonstokess]

It's what I thought I wanted. I remember seeing the Avengers references in the initial ads for AOS and getting pumped for the MCU's entry into network television.

In reality - not so much. The references to the cinematic world often are forced into the dialogue as fan service, and the virtually non existent links between the TV and film worlds are a frustration to many fans, myself included. It gives the impression that the writers are less than confident in the story they are presenting and feel the need to tie it into the much more popular films.

AOS mentioning the Avengers is similar to how the Supergirl program treats Superman. He (or they) are not showing up on the show, so why do you keep talking about him? The Netflix shows handle this much better than the network programs, imo.

Well, to be fair, how much linkage do you really need? The references are there to show that all these shows/movies reside in the same universe. AoS is mostly dealing with the remnants of Hydra and the emerging Inhumans, the Netflix shows deal mostly in NY based activities and the movies deal with singular events either by a solo hero or a team.

I like that they do the references and don't hit us over the head with cameo after cameo. Think about it this way: Most people in the world have never met the President, but we still exist in a world with him.

Not everyone's worlds "collide" all the time or at all.

 

[Zarex]

Well, to be fair, how much linkage do you really need? The references are there to show that all these shows/movies reside in the same universe. AoS is mostly dealing with the remnants of Hydra and the emerging Inhumans, the Netflix shows deal mostly in NY based activities and the movies deal with singular events either by a solo hero or a team.

I like that they do the references and don't hit us over the head with cameo after cameo. Think about it this way: Most people in the world have never met the President, but we still exist in a world with him.

Not everyone's worlds "collide" all the time or at all.

I prefer minimal linkage, as displayed with the Netflix shows. I found JJ and DD's subtle references to the MCU much more satisfying than the name dropping on AOS. My guess is that future Marvel shows on ABC, such as Most Wanted, will follow the Netflix model.

 

[Endeavor]

I prefer minimal linkage, as displayed with the Netflix shows. I found JJ and DD's subtle references to the MCU much more satisfying than the name dropping on AOS. My guess is that future Marvel shows on ABC, such as Most Wanted, will follow the Netflix model.

I don't understand this point of view.
The Netflix shows have done the same thing as AoS.
They've name dropped individuals and events as passing comments and references.
The only difference is that they've referred to the Chitauri invasion as "the incident" and the've called the Avengers by nicknames intead of their actual names: "the flag waver", "the guy with the hammer" and "the big guy".
Is that really what makes them better connective references? Because they don't say Captain America, Thor and Hulk?

 

[Pokkle]

I don't understand this point of view.
The Netflix shows have done the same thing as AoS.
They've name dropped individuals and events as passing comments and references.
The only difference is that they've referred to the Chitauri invasion as "the incident" and the've called the Avengers by nicknames intead of their actual names: "the flag waver", "the guy with the hammer" and "the big guy".
Is that really what makes them better connective references? Because they don't say Captain America, Thor and Hulk?

I agree with you but Foggy did say "Captain America" in season 1.

 

[Zarex]

I don't understand this point of view.
The Netflix shows have done the same thing as AoS.
They've name dropped individuals and events as passing comments and references.
The only difference is that they've referred to the Chitauri invasion as "the incident" and the've called the Avengers by nicknames intead of their actual names: "the flag waver", "the guy with the hammer" and "the big guy".
Is that really what makes them better connective references? Because they don't say Captain America, Thor and Hulk?

Yes, I prefer the casual references of the Netflix shows to the blatant name dropping of AOS.

 

[javonstokess]

Yes, I prefer the casual references of the Netflix shows to the blatant name dropping of AOS.

To which I saw "what's the difference"?

How often do you talk politics or popular culture with your co-workers or family? Now think about if actual super powered beings existed in the world.

If anything, all the Marvel productions don't reference each other enough.

 

[Endeavor]

Yes, I prefer the casual references of the Netflix shows to the blatant name dropping of AOS.

So what bothers you is that they use the actual names in AoS.
Got it.

 

[Zarex]

So what bothers you is that they use the actual names in AoS.
Got it.

Just so you know, you are not required to play the fool simply because it's the first day of April.

But let me simplify just in case you are being serious. The more direct and blatant references to the MCU in AOS seem unnatural to me and take me out of the moment. It appears as though they are selling a product - a fully integrated TV and cinematic environment - that doesn't exist. I think AOS is pretty good and works best when its standing on its own. For example, I thought last season's Inhuman plot was very well done. But when the show attempts to tie into a reality that doesn't tie back, I don't think it works nearly as well. Let me know if you would like even further clarification.

 

[Endeavor]

Just so you know, you are not required to play the fool simply because it's the first day of April.

But let me simplify just in case you are being serious. The more direct and blatant references to the MCU in AOS seem unnatural to me and take me out of the moment. It appears as though they are selling a product - a fully integrated TV and cinematic environment - that doesn't exist. I think AOS is pretty good and works best when its standing on its own. For example, I thought last season's Inhuman plot was very well done. But when the show attempts to tie into a reality that doesn't tie back, I don't think it works nearly as well. Let me know if you would like even further clarification.

There is no need to resort to personal attacks.

I said I didn't understand your point of view and provided how I interpreted the differences between the 2 connective references.
You replied to my comment saying yes and to that I replied with a summarized version of our previous exchange to make sure we were on the same page.
That does not make me a fool.

To me there is no difference. Both shows are doing the exact same thing.
For you the fact they use the actual MCU character and events names does make a difference... Okay. You have your reasoning for that, which I don't agree with, but that doesn't matter.

 

[KingCheops]

Michele Fazekas said that the Council of Nine is not connected to HYDRA.

Ah my bad. Hadn't read any of the interviews.

 

[ImSGirl95]

Um ... guys, come on.
There are also tons of MCU references in the Netflix shows. Daredevil Season 2: Dogs of Hell & Roxxon, anyone?
And have you forgotten the whole topic in Jessica Jones Episode 4 what was it about?

 

[gildedmuse]

I don't understand this point of view.
The Netflix shows have done the same thing as AoS.
They've name dropped individuals and events as passing comments and references.
The only difference is that they've referred to the Chitauri invasion as "the incident" and the've called the Avengers by nicknames intead of their actual names: "the flag waver", "the guy with the hammer" and "the big guy".
Is that really what makes them better connective references? Because they don't say Captain America, Thor and Hulk?

If anything I find that way more annoying. During the whole conversation with Luke I was just screaming, "His name is the Hulk! Why are you going out of your way to avoid calling him the Hulk!" Like I honestly don't understand. It's no secret they were talking about the Hulk, saying the name does not summon him, there is no reason to tiptoe around the name like that.

It would be like if you were discussing, well, the president and only referred to him as "The man with his finger on the red button". That would be so unnatural in most conversations. Why would you do that? You wouldn't, okay, and neither should they but they keep doing it.

I'm not annoyed by the references, just how they work in dialogue. It makes sense that the other Avengers wouldn't call Steve Captain America to his face because that is a title, not his name, and they're close enough to know that. It makes sense (mostly) when SHIELD references the Avengers because that was a weird event on a huge scale and they know work with a lot of fallout from that and various Avengers related incidents. Also, at the very least Coulson and Skye are total fans. When Wesley refers to the man with the hammer it works because he's not so much taking about Thor as he is the concept of superhumans, but when they are directly discussing them and still insist on not using the proper name it's just groan-worthy.

 

[gildedmuse]

Also, I didn't find all of Mack and his brother's dialogue to be painful - just some of the later stuff. The stuff at the beginning played out how siblings talk. I love me some Mack so I was happy to see him get some more screen time, and even in his small role I thought Fitz was great. It's amazing how much Daisy has changed from Skye, but also understandable. She went through a lot to get to a point where she could accept who she was and then here are these people calling hera freak and attacking her. The stand out was Blake - I totally got his line of reasoning which is what you want to do with those kinds of villains.

ETA: One of the most awkward moments was when Daisy brings Fitz back and then suddenly shows us she brought back one of the dogs. I mean, you can pretty well infer what's happened it was just strange. But Fitz's line after - "Yeah okay, I wondered why you brought him here" - makes it work. I enjoyed that litle trick far too much.

 

[voyzovrezon]

I thought it was a good episode. Probably the best one since the winter break.

But really guys, is referencing MCU film events a big deal? It's ALL MCU

And did anyone else think the projectile on Fitz neck looked like the Nickelodeon logo?

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...ld_Logo.png/revision/latest?cb=20150718113424

 

[fixxxer]

Early on in AOS' run, the MCU references felt extremely forced and just not story driven at all. It was almost like they just wanted to beat the audience over the head with AVENGERS! AVENGERS! It was like they were referencing a piece of pop culture or movie that everyone loved rather than events that occurred in the same setting.

"Remember that movie everybody loved? Yes, this is more of the same. Tell your friends."

Thankfully they've improved by leaps and bounds since then. Now, I think they're really really good with how they reference the broader MCU. IMO every reference dropped in this episode felt organic and contributed to the story that was being told. No problems at all on that front.

 

[Endeavor]

IMO every reference dropped in this episode felt organic and contributed to the story that was being told. No problems at all on that front.

Exactly how I feel.