Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x02 - "Meet the New Boss" - Discussion Thread

[Uskok]

he is getting introduced to everybody as phil coulson, no attempt to change his handle. Each episode the circle of people who know him as someone who is alive gets bigger.

On the planet inhabited by seven billion people, a guy named Phil Coulson is just one big nobody. Is Coulson some kind of a famous celebrity? Did everyone scream "Hey, there's Phil Coulson!" when they saw him on the streets? Did hordes of fangirls follow him everywhere? NO!

And since those people that Coulson met on his missions have no idea that he's supposed to be dead, that's not a problem at all. And even if they knew that he was dead and then brought back to life, well, it's not like those people are legally obliged to call the Avengers and say:"Hey, your dead buddy Phil Coulson is actually alive. Come and pick him up."

Also, even if someone wanted to check who that mysterious government agent Phil Coulson really is, you know what would they find? Absolutely nothing! Remember what happened when Coulson and his team escaped from the Hub in Season One. Coulson ordered Skye to erase all online proof of his team's existence. In the eyes of the law, Coulson and all members of his old team simply don't exist. Every trace of them was erased from all electronic networks.

There is another circle the number of people who presumed him dead. The intersecting point the number of people who did presume him dead but now know him to be alive is surly getting bigger. Surely the avengers are in that section by now. Either its going to get ignored indefinitely or leading to a simple 'i taught everybody knew line'

Let's see, how many people from the MCU movies who presumed he was dead but now know he's alive are there?

Lady Sif and Jasper Sitwell thought he was dead and then learned he was alive. Sitwell is dead and Lady Sif was asked by Coulson himself to keep the secret. Since it seems Jaimie Alexander won't reprise her role in Thor: Ragnarok, we can assume that Lady Sif is also dead. Dead men tell no tales. Coulson's secret is safe.

Nick Fury and Maria Hill know that Coulson is alive. The Avengers think he's dead. Fury and Hill have no reason to tell them he's alive. Why would they? If something is meant to be a secret that even the Avengers should not know, then that secret should remain a secret. Fury and Hill are spies, not a pair of chatterboxes.

 

[Moridin]

Did anyone else get the feeling that Coulson was kinda expecting the new Director to be just a pretty public face of S.H.I.E.L.D. while he would actually pull the strings? But now he's got the real boss and must obey his orders and respect the chain of command.

Seems to me Coulson is just having a hard time letting go of the reigns.

Since it seems Jaimie Alexander won't reprise her role in Thor: Ragnarok, we can assume that Lady Sif is also dead.

Uh, no....

 

[Havok83]

On the planet inhabited by seven billion people, a guy named Phil Coulson is just one big nobody. Is Coulson some kind of a famous celebrity? Did everyone scream "Hey, there's Phil Coulson!" when they saw him on the streets? Did hordes of fangirls follow him everywhere? NO!

And since those people that Coulson met on his missions have no idea that he's supposed to be dead, that's not a problem at all. And even if they knew that he was dead and then brought back to life, well, it's not like those people are legally obliged to call the Avengers and say:"Hey, your dead buddy Phil Coulson is actually alive. Come and pick him up."

Also, even if someone wanted to check who that mysterious government agent Phil Coulson really is, you know what would they find? Absolutely nothing! Remember what happened when Coulson and his team escaped from the Hub in Season One. Coulson ordered Skye to erase all online proof of his team's existence. In the eyes of the law, Coulson and all members of his old team simply don't exist. Every trace of them was erased from all electronic networks.



Let's see, how many people from the MCU movies who presumed he was dead but now know he's alive are there?

Lady Sif and Jasper Sitwell thought he was dead and then learned he was alive. Sitwell is dead and Lady Sif was asked by Coulson himself to keep the secret. Since it seems Jaimie Alexander won't reprise her role in Thor: Ragnarok, we can assume that Lady Sif is also dead. Dead men tell no tales. Coulson's secret is safe.

Nick Fury and Maria Hill know that Coulson is alive. The Avengers think he's dead. Fury and Hill have no reason to tell them he's alive. Why would they? If something is meant to be a secret that even the Avengers should not know, then that secret should remain a secret. Fury and Hill are spies, not a pair of chatterboxes.

Why wouldnt they? The team are Avengers, not thugs off the street. I dont see the motive in why Fury would need to keep that a secret from them. I find it hard to beleive that they dont know after all these years. Coulson isnt hiding his preesence by working and acting publicly. Tony found and deduced Spider-Man's secret identity from surveillance footage. No noe's seen footage or paid attention to any number of the big public incidents that SHIELD responded to in 4 years?

 

[Uskok]

Why wouldnt they? The team are Avengers, not thugs off the street. I dont see the motive in why Fury would need to keep that a secret from them. I find it hard to beleive that they dont know after all these years. Coulson isnt hiding his preesence by working and acting publicly. Tony found and deduced Spider-Man's secret identity from surveillance footage. No noe's seen footage or paid attention to any number of the big public incidents that SHIELD responded to in 4 years?

The team are Avengers, who have recently shown the entire world they would rather have a fight than talk something through, just like thugs off the street.

Tony found Spider-Man because he was searching for Spider-Man. He didn't search for a guy who is officially dead. If you were a millionaire and a superhero, would you spend your days in front of TV with a bowl of popcorn, looking through every available surveillance footage to find a guy who died four years ago? I don't think so.

Officially S.H.I.E.L.D. ceased to exist during the HYDRA Uprising. Every public S.H.I.E.L.D. action since then probably wasn't even publicly atributed to S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

[Havok83]

The team are Avengers, who have recently shown the entire world they would rather have a fight than talk something through, just like thugs off the street.

Tony found Spider-Man because he was searching for Spider-Man. He didn't search for a guy who is officially dead. If you were a millionaire and a superhero, would you spend your days in front of TV with a bowl of popcorn, looking through every available surveillance footage to find a guy who died four years ago? I don't think so.

Officially S.H.I.E.L.D. ceased to exist during the HYDRA Uprising. Every public S.H.I.E.L.D. action since then probably wasn't even publicly atributed to S.H.I.E.L.D.

CW just happened. Fury and Maria knew about Coulson years ago. The likes of Steve and Tony werent trustworthy back in 2012?

You missed the point. It wasnt about Tony specifically looking for Coulson. It would be checking into these public incidences that SHIELD has responded to. The stuff with powered beings and Inhumans would reasonable get his attention as much as some kid taking out random street thugs. In the process of looking at that stuff, he'd see that Coulson was alive as he wasnt exactly hiding his presence. It just feels more illogical to me to beleive that he and the rest of the team dont know. They are smart and resourceful, not idiots

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

it seems Jaimie Alexander won't reprise her role in Thor: Ragnarok, we can assume that Lady Sif is also dead.

It looks like she is in Thor: Ragnarok:

http://nerdist.com/jaimie-alexander-teases-her-return-in-thor-ragnarok/

 

[Dark Raven]

It looks like she is in Thor: Ragnarok:

http://nerdist.com/jaimie-alexander-teases-her-return-in-thor-ragnarok/

We can assume she's dead then.

 

[Uskok]

CW just happened. Fury and Maria knew about Coulson years ago. The likes of Steve and Tony werent trustworthy back in 2012?

You missed the point. It wasnt about Tony specifically looking for Coulson. It would be checking into these public incidences that SHIELD has responded to. The stuff with powered beings and Inhumans would reasonable get his attention as much as some kid taking out random street thugs. In the process of looking at that stuff, he'd see that Coulson was alive as he wasnt exactly hiding his presence. It just feels more illogical to me to beleive that he and the rest of the team dont know. They are smart and resourceful, not idiots

And how many S.H.I.E.L.D. interventions in those public incidents were actually caught on camera for the world to see? None! How many reporters were actually there to record everything? None! The fact that S.H.I.E.L.D. still exists is known only within President Ellis' administration and some intelligence agencies. As for Coulson, since the beginning of Season Two, when he had to act in public, and actually interact with other people, he used false names (Charles Martin in Face my Enemy and Sean Lundwall in The Inside Man).

It looks like she is in Thor: Ragnarok:

http://nerdist.com/jaimie-alexander-teases-her-return-in-thor-ragnarok/

A hint with not a single official confirmation. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Sif in Thor: Ragnarok, but until we see some confirmation from Marvel or until Jaimie Alexander clearly says:"Yes, I will reprise my role in Thor 3", all those rumors will remain just rumors.

 

[Havok83]

until its addressed onscreen (if ever), we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one

 

[DalekbusterFitz]

A hint with not a single official confirmation. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Sif in Thor: Ragnarok, but until we see some confirmation from Marvel or until Jaimie Alexander clearly says:"Yes, I will reprise my role in Thor 3", all those rumors will remain just rumors.

Why would she purposefully mislead fans into thinking she is in Thor: Ragnarok?

 

[SirStrangefolk]

And how many S.H.I.E.L.D. interventions in those public incidents were actually caught on camera for the world to see? None!

In this age of surveillance cameras and mobile phones? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Loki882]

Umm Coulson confronted Deathlok in the middle of a crowded train station and had a conversation with him. In the PILOT!! Now unless you want to try to argue that there are no security cameras in a freaking train station (which having been to several I can assure you there are), then it's highly unlikely that he wasn't caught on tape. And then it just gets more overblown from there. Also the idea that, in all of the public or semi-public incidents that Coulson and co have been involved in, that NO ONE has recorded them on their cell-phone cameras, or just ordinary cameras, and uploaded it online, or that other security cameras haven't caught them, no just no.


So yeah, the Avengers not knowing by this point is ludicrous. It's simply comes down to Feige and co wanting to pretend like the TV side doesn't exist, nothing more.

 

[Uskok]

Why would she purposefully mislead fans into thinking she is in Thor: Ragnarok?

I don't know. Why would Marvel purposefully mislead fans into thinking Steve Rogers was a HYDRA agent his whole life?

In this age of surveillance cameras and mobile phones? I find that hard to believe.

Umm Coulson confronted Deathlok in the middle of a crowded train station and had a conversation with him. In the PILOT!! Now unless you want to try to argue that there are no security cameras in a freaking train station (which having been to several I can assure you there are), then it's highly unlikely that he wasn't caught on tape. And then it just gets more overblown from there. Also the idea that, in all of the public or semi-public incidents that Coulson and co have been involved in, that NO ONE has recorded them on their cell-phone cameras, or just ordinary cameras, and uploaded it online, or that other security cameras haven't caught them, no just no.


So yeah, the Avengers not knowing by this point is ludicrous. It's simply comes down to Feige and co wanting to pretend like the TV side doesn't exist, nothing more.

Remember Coulson's conversation with Skye in season 1, Episode 2.

"Remember the panic when that anti-matter meteor splashed down just off the coast of Miami, nearly devoured the city?"

"No."

"Precisely. Because we kept it quiet and contained."

If S.H.I.E.L.D. can hide a friggin fall of a meteor from the public, then I'm sure they would have no problems in erasing the surveillance footage with one S.H.I.E.L.D. operative, in this case Coulson.

 

[DN91]

And as noted above, having a hacker who successfully erased all previous knowledge of her past helps with keeping things under tabs.

 

[Random490]

Umm Coulson confronted Deathlok in the middle of a crowded train station and had a conversation with him. In the PILOT!! Now unless you want to try to argue that there are no security cameras in a freaking train station (which having been to several I can assure you there are), then it's highly unlikely that he wasn't caught on tape. And then it just gets more overblown from there. Also the idea that, in all of the public or semi-public incidents that Coulson and co have been involved in, that NO ONE has recorded them on their cell-phone cameras, or just ordinary cameras, and uploaded it online, or that other security cameras haven't caught them, no just no.


So yeah, the Avengers not knowing by this point is ludicrous. It's simply comes down to Feige and co wanting to pretend like the TV side doesn't exist, nothing more.

Well SHIELD probably would confiscate security footage and it's not like the footage from cell phones are always crystal clear, think about most cell phone footage out there and how clear the faces from a distance is and whether it's shaky or properly framed. Plus it's not like all the members of the Avengers study every single news events. Probably just saw it on the news story on it in passing and didn't pay much attention to it. I mean just because we the audience are clued in doesn't mean other characters are paying attention. Stark was probably taking a break after Iron Man 3 (depending on timing he could have been in china getting heart surgery), Cap was watching movies off his list, Banner never had any interactions with Coulson, Clint probably was renovating his house, and Natasha may have been on a mission. As think about how that incident was reported in the news "A dangers individual was shot in a train station after federal agents failed to talk him down. Most information has been classified but other than the suspect no one was harmed. Next in sports..." That's its. Easy to miss if you have a life.

Remember Coulson's conversation with Skye in season 1, Episode 2.

"Remember the panic when that anti-matter meteor splashed down just off the coast of Miami, nearly devoured the city?"

"No."

"Precisely. Because we kept it quiet and contained."

If S.H.I.E.L.D. can hide a friggin fall of a meteor from the public, then I'm sure they would have no problems in erasing the surveillance footage with one S.H.I.E.L.D. operative, in this case Coulson.

Probably just looked like a normal meteor storm.

 

[just one thing]

On the planet inhabited by seven billion people, a guy named Phil Coulson is just one big nobody. Is Coulson some kind of a famous celebrity? Did everyone scream "Hey, there's Phil Coulson!" when they saw him on the streets? Did hordes of fangirls follow him everywhere? NO!

And since those people that Coulson met on his missions have no idea that he's supposed to be dead, that's not a problem at all. And even if they knew that he was dead and then brought back to life, well, it's not like those people are legally obliged to call the Avengers and say:"Hey, your dead buddy Phil Coulson is actually alive. Come and pick him up."

Also, even if someone wanted to check who that mysterious government agent Phil Coulson really is, you know what would they find? Absolutely nothing! Remember what happened when Coulson and his team escaped from the Hub in Season One. Coulson ordered Skye to erase all online proof of his team's existence. In the eyes of the law, Coulson and all members of his old team simply don't exist. Every trace of them was erased from all electronic networks.



Let's see, how many people from the MCU movies who presumed he was dead but now know he's alive are there?

Lady Sif and Jasper Sitwell thought he was dead and then learned he was alive. Sitwell is dead and Lady Sif was asked by Coulson himself to keep the secret. Since it seems Jaimie Alexander won't reprise her role in Thor: Ragnarok, we can assume that Lady Sif is also dead. Dead men tell no tales. Coulson's secret is safe.

Nick Fury and Maria Hill know that Coulson is alive. The Avengers think he's dead. Fury and Hill have no reason to tell them he's alive. Why would they? If something is meant to be a secret that even the Avengers should not know, then that secret should remain a secret. Fury and Hill are spies, not a pair of chatterboxes.

fair enough in a world of 7 billion people he is a nobody.

in the smaller world of world security the last few years given the activities of his team he would be a somebody. Think the first conversation between himself and roslyn last season, she had a look at his cv, it wasn't perfect knowledge but she had alot. People in hydra knew he was alive, people around the pousa knew he was alive, talbot when he was chasing him, betraying him, working with him knew he was alive. The security world.

On why the avengers have a right to know, at the start of AOU and CW the avengers are busy mopping up the remnants of hydra. Read posts off this board from last year and some had gotten tired of two years of stories about shield chasing down hydra. they are at the same work, it would seem relevant for one to know what the other is doing.

This season, shield is expanding, more people know him as alive. might have been easier if they classified his death. Its not unreasonable to presume word of his existanse or someone fitting his description has reached the attention of the avengers.

Its all hypothetical anyway mate, bigger people have decided on it.