Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 4x20 - "Farewell, Cruel World!" - Discussion Thread

[legendkillin]

Man I hope Mack comes to his senses. I wonder if the framework will change since it won't be maintained. Aida received her body so I don't see her caring about the framework. Can the Hydra ruling the world be changed since he is the only one plugged in?

 

[legendkillin]

Awesome episode. Really hope Tripp somehow makes it back to the real world - he was always one of my favourite characters

I just don't see how they can pull Tripp into the real world. He was basically crushed and I think confirmed dead. Now maybe they can have him use that machine Aida used.

 

[Silvermoon]

I just don't see how they can pull Tripp into the real world. He was basically crushed and I think confirmed dead. Now maybe they can have him use that machine Aida used.

I'm pretty sure that's what people are referring to when talking about bringing Trip (or Hope, or Ward) back... that they would use Aida's machine to generate a whole new body

 

[scarlet-witch]

As much as I love Tripp, I think the show would get a tremendous amount of flack for bringing any dead character alive from the framework.

 

[just one thing]

Is trip and radcliff the only people in the framework that knows about aidas machine.

makes him a good candidate to go to the real world if the need ever arises.

 

[C. Lee]

So can't they just unplug Mack from the framework against his will ? Since he was plugged in against his will he can be plugged out against his will

They said a few episodes ago.....simply unplugging someone will fry their brain.

 

[just one thing]

But thats assuming the framework is even active come the end of this season

I'd prefer Aida destroying it if she cant have it so that way after Fitz kills Aida we can move on next season

yeah its assuming it continues to work. Theory falls if the framework no longer exits.

maybe the russian will kill aida if she attempts to destroy the framework. his programing and all that.

 

[General Mike]

Is trip and radcliff the only people in the framework that knows about aidas machine.

makes him a good candidate to go to the real world if the need ever arises.

Do they know where the machine is in the framework? They'd have to be able to find it to use it.

So is Ophelia an Inhuman now, what with the teleporting and what not?

 

[HFK]

They said a few episodes ago.....simply unplugging someone will fry their brain.

Simply unplugging them, yes. They can be brought out though against their will as evidenced by Aida being admonished by Radcliffe for pulling him out before he was ready.

 

[Dark Raven]

I thought they might bring Hope through to be with Mac rather than him staying behind.

What if Agnes is actually still alive somehow, or her consciousness is stored in a buffer like how the transporters in Star Trek retain the patterns of the crew in a buffer? They could potentially put her mind into the human AIDA's body and bring her back to life.

 

[Heretic]

Well...here's my question...

Inserting someone into the Framework can theoretically alter it. Like...May was first in, so the world took shape mostly around her regrets. Then as more people were added, small changes likely had to be made...theoretically around some reset point...so, if Coulson was dead in the original Framework, plugging him in would have reset the world to where Coulson was alive and a teacher.

Anyway...

We know that when someone leaves the Framework, it causes a disturbance in the Framework...a rippling distortion that characters in the Framework can see. What effect is this having on the digital world? Is the world being altered at all due to no longer having to deal with that regret?

 

[Vartha]

Well...here's my question...

Inserting someone into the Framework can theoretically alter it. Like...May was first in, so the world took shape mostly around her regrets. Then as more people were added, small changes likely had to be made...theoretically around some reset point...so, if Coulson was dead in the original Framework, plugging him in would have reset the world to where Coulson was alive and a teacher.

Anyway...

We know that when someone leaves the Framework, it causes a disturbance in the Framework...a rippling distortion that characters in the Framework can see. What effect is this having on the digital world? Is the world being altered at all due to no longer having to deal with that regret?

Interesting question. I would THINK, say a major player like Fitz leaves, it WOULD. Unless the Framework automatically adjusts everything to the lack of that part of the world being gone

 

[Vartha]

Do they know where the machine is in the framework? They'd have to be able to find it to use it.

So is Ophelia an Inhuman now, what with the teleporting and what not?

I would guess Ophelia's powers come from the knowledge she gained from the Darkhold. Which is probably why we'll get Ghost Rider back

 

[tbg]

They said a few episodes ago.....simply unplugging someone will fry their brain.

Correct, but they can clearly yank someone out if they want. In 'The Man Behind The Shield' (4:14), Aida pulls Radcliffe out of the framework w/o his consent, so they can get Mack back if they want.

Side note, I wonder if Henry Simmons got nervous about renewal and has already signed a deal elsewhere for the fall. That could be why they would have to write him out.

 

[Heretic]

The idea of bringing all these dead people back through the Framework/Darkhold machine is terrible. If a little girl with no powers can "come back to life" (I understand that it's an alternate version) then death means absolutely nothing in the MCU and there will be ZERO reason to ever worry about the outcome of any dramatic moment. It's one of the reasons why I stopped reading mainstream superhero comics. Captain America gets killed? Well...just bring him back through cloning/alternate universe/lookalike who was secretly always the REAL Cap etc...that little girl that no one cared about came back, surely Cap can.

 

[just one thing]

The idea of bringing all these dead people back through the Framework/Darkhold machine is terrible. If a little girl with no powers can "come back to life" (I understand that it's an alternate version) then death means absolutely nothing in the MCU and there will be ZERO reason to ever worry about the outcome of any dramatic moment. It's one of the reasons why I stopped reading mainstream superhero comics. Captain America gets killed? Well...just bring him back through cloning/alternate universe/lookalike who was secretly always the REAL Cap etc...that little girl that no one cared about came back, surely Cap can.

stories of hero's coming back from the dead or cheating death is a lot older than comic books and as old as story telling itself. Sometimes it works some times it doesn't. Thats story telling. Modern captain america's origin story is that he died at the end of WW2 but was really in suspended animation frozen in ice. with a foundation like that is cloning/alternate universe/lookalike that much of a leap.

 

[Vartha]

Yeah but, it gets OVER done. In a way I'm glad they didn't find an excuse to bring Tripp and Patriot back with Ophelia.
I can see the Frame work getting used for maybe people who are insane with powers and can be controlled in the framework like a prison.
OR even to be used for maybe a vacation. In a way Shield implanted Phil's memories of Tahiti

 

[ConnorShortt]

One thing I've always wondered. Tripp (and I assume also Hope) are portrayed as having the same personality in the framework, despite both being dead long before AIDA ever created it, how did she get the 'blueprints' for his personality when she probably never knew he existed?

 

[Primal Slayer]

This has been a FANTASTIC arc! They have done such a great job with it. Really stepped it up.

 

[Vartha]

One thing I've always wondered. Tripp (and I assume also Hope) are portrayed as having the same personality in the framework, despite both being dead long before AIDA ever created it, how did she get the 'blueprints' for his personality when she probably never knew he existed?

I wondered that too. The only thing I can think of is Aida "sampled" everyone's minds who knew them.

Welcome aboard!

 

[C. Lee]

One thing I've always wondered. Tripp (and I assume also Hope) are portrayed as having the same personality in the framework, despite both being dead long before AIDA ever created it, how did she get the 'blueprints' for his personality when she probably never knew he existed?

I would say she has access to stored data from inside SHIELD.....so it's easy to build up a profile of him from all the security video of him in the base as well as debriefings and such. As for Hope, we have no idea if she is acting like the real world Hope did (and since they redid Mack's mind, it doesn't matter if they made her like she used to be, he is programmed to accept her the way she is).

 

[legendkillin]

One thing I've always wondered. Tripp (and I assume also Hope) are portrayed as having the same personality in the framework, despite both being dead long before AIDA ever created it, how did she get the 'blueprints' for his personality when she probably never knew he existed?

Well Fitz made her perhaps he installed some extra info about past shield missions. Maybe she built Tripp through their memories, now like she had access to Ward or Hope.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Yet another plot hole unfortunately. Mack says the others have gone back to Kansas but wouldn't their programmed selves still exist in the framework?

If they did, they would have burned each time the molten iron filled back up. The question is whether they can go back into the framework. There's a logical answer for how to save Mack, I just don't know how to get there.

That being said, it's a shame that Aida is all crazy and murdery. Just wanting to be a real boy seems innocuous enough that I'd probably have been willing to compromise and say "OK, you let us all go and you can have a real body." The problem is she was infected by the Darkhold.

 

[Random490]

I would guess AIDA used algorithms to scour public records, hack private files, and composite it all to make the world. The framework itself is self sustaining with the ripple effects. AIDA didn't make every single person herself, just the system that automatically added them.

 

[Shazam]

They said a few episodes ago.....simply unplugging someone will fry their brain.

Daisy shoulda just QUAKED Mack and tossed his stupid butt through the hole and sort it out later! Now they have to contend with protecting his plugged up body while now being under attack from the mad Russian!!

That was stupid!! I could NOT believe she left him in there!!