Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. - 5x12 "The Real Deal" Discussion Thread

[OB12]

I'm well aware of that. But if they had it revealed that the shows and films are in different realities that would just infuriate fans of the shows. Here's a way to ensure there are connections between AOS and the films.

Have the Avengers learn Coulson is alive. Doesn't matter how it is found out, it just needs to happen.

Yep, why am I bothering to watch these TV shows if they don't inhabit the same universe. This is the reason I don't waste my time on the Arrowverse shows. Even the the movies don't reference them, which is annoying, they still expand the MCU in interesting ways and allow us to get a cool Deathlok sequense like we got in this episode.

 

[fire117]

Yep, why am I bothering to watch these TV shows if they don't inhabit the same universe. This is the reason I don't waste my time on the Arrowverse shows. Even the the movies don't reference them, which is annoying, they still expand the MCU in interesting ways and allow us to get a cool Deathlok sequense like we got in this episode.

Well it's been said that the Arrowverse isn't connected to the DCEU films at all. Which is a good thing, as most of those films aside from Wonder Woman have been crap.

Honestly the MCU films should start referencing the shows, with throwaway lines which references events from the shows, Easter eggs. Cameos by certain characters. If it is all connected it's well past time to prove that!

 

[mace1]

Of course the shows are not in other dimensions.They exist in same universe as the mcu films.
This was posted in Titans Together! Teen Titans Appreciation Thread in another forum.

Yeah I'd keep them separate as well. I mean the Marvel shows are part of the MCU but ever since Feige freed himself of Ike, the two are basically separate. The TV shows still reference the Avengers but never the other way around. Movies will always take precedence so unless you're doing street level characters or smaller characters that might not need a film, no point in connecting canons. It will only hurt

Quote-
To tell you the truth, if the Characters from the mcu shows make appearances in the mcu movies that's fine,and if they don't? That's fine as well as far as i am concern.
None of the original new characters that first appeared in star trek deep space nine made appearances in the movies for example and i was fine with it.

Anyway there has been impact both ways.

Movies to shows and Shows to movies.

Here some views about the mcu shows and movie crossovers.
It's been awhile ago.

by Eddie
I did a full MCU film binge before Civil War, and the last two Phase 2 films actually have subtle AoS connections that apparently went over everyone's heads. Nick Fury got the Helicarrier from "old friends". He's referring to Coulson. Not only do we see that in AoS, Coulson's also the only common friend of Fury and the Avengers that could have possibly hooked him up with one. Ant-Man also reveals to the film audience that Hydra is still around despite being"finished" in Ultron... except AoS viewers were already in on that thanks to the S2 finale. They're small connection, but they do exist (Fury's dialogue in particular really couldn't have been referring to anyone else).

by belltown213-0-557076
There was even a little Agent Carter Easter egg shout out to the character Dottie Underwood in Civil War when Bucky told Cap he used to date a red head named Dot back in the 50's. Infinity War will probably feature a bunch of MCU TV character similar to how the X-Men series just spotlights the main mutants while the rest are there as wall paper to fill out a scene.


by Neoxon
For the record, most of the issues concerning the TV side of the MCU is mainly with the characters (be it Quake, Coulson, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Misty Knight, Punisher, & now Ghost Rider) crossing over into the movies (Ex: Infinity War), not if the TV/Netflix stuff is actually canon or not. Feige himself said that having the TV characters at some point is inevitable, & it's not like anything in the movies directly contradicts what's on the TV/Netflix shows (or vice versa). Both the TV/Netflix shows & the movies are still in Earth-19999, it's just that Perlmutter is supposedly holding back the characters from being able to cross over into the ensemble films. Hopefully they can work this out by the time the Inhumans movie drops (likely 2021, judging by Feige's recent comments at Comic Con), so they can at least make a slight nod to the Inhumans outside of Attilan.

by Josh Harper
What does Ashley mean when she says "There's no connection between the movie and tv universes"? They are still in the same universe, and even if the references are small they would still make no sense at all if they weren't in the same universe, also Leob and Feige have both acknowledged the films, ABC shows and Netflix shows are all in the MCU (I'm certain of this because I was searching for quotes on the subject recently). Unless she means creatively they are seperate, then yeah, that's completely true.

byJosh Harper
"If you ignore Agents of SHIELD" that's like saying if I ignore the fact that I have a heart then I'm actually dead. Ignoring something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're right that Agents of SHIELD has much bigger references to the MCU and is very clearly linked with the multiple cameos and guest appearances from movie characters (Lady Sif, Maria Hill, Nick Fury, even Coulson himself), but the Netflix shows do clearly have links, albeit much smaller ones, but we do literally see Stark tower in a picture, The Hulk in a picture, a Levitation in a picture, Hammer Tech weapons, name drops of Stark and Captain America, etc. Whilst they are small, yes, they are still showing us quite clearly that it's the same universe. Leob has confirmed it many times and Feige has said "We want to incorporate the show characters into the movies" meaning even he deems them canon to the MCU.

Cedric House
you don't need to cross in order to know it's in the same world they freaking name drop Tony stark in luke cage

Bajan Samurai
Yeah, it is clearly all in the same universe, it is just people get forgetful of crossover instances (Fury or Lady Sif showing up before) or over assume when news of behind the scenes division of control (cinema properties - TV properties) comes up. The issue is that some people assumed that connected meant all showing up occasionally and all referencing each other, which was never their intent.
It is not easy to get as many movie stars to make a TV appearance (scheduling, location) and it is not easy to synchronize an event from a TV show [that could have been filmed last month or last week and shown today] with an event(s) following it in a film that had wrapped photography a year prior and still comes out after the TV event. It is harder to plan for a movie to reference a TV show's events that it doesn't even know will be happening when they are already filming.
The one they (sort of) pulled off was inferring that Coulson was responsible for Nick Fury acquiring the helicarrier they used in Avengers: AoU, but even that probably required a lot of pre-planning since the AoS probably had not even fully fleshed out how their season was going to go.


by Zaxlon16722
Darragh Tate Thank you! I swear, people keep saying it's not connected, it's driving me crazy! Freaking Sam Jackson and Lady Sif have appeared in multiple episodes! That alone is all the proof they need!

Oh and another character from the mcu movie the avengers was on season 3 of agents of shield.He was one of the folks nick fury was speaking to in private on the screen.

Midlife Comix2 hours ago (edited)
Gonna have to disagree with you on the whole "They would have just called the Avengers" thing. As we know from comics the FF, Avengers, X-Men, etc don't just pop up in each others comics all the time that easily to clean things up. How many times has Spidey been outmatched and ran to the Avengers, the Sanctum Santorum, or the Baxter Building only for those teams to conveniently be "out of town"? 1000's of times. So when it happens in Live Action it's different? Not at all. You see Daredevil fight things like Vampires but does he just call Blade every time? Nope! So why would that HAVE to happen in Live Action? And as far as references not only was "The Incident" referred to but also the Hulk, Thor, Cap, etc Cottonmouth mentions Cap, and Method raps about Iron man in Luke Cage. Yes I get some of these are obscure references but references none the less. Also remember [SPOILERS for DD Season 2] when Frank grabs that CD labeled "Micro" from his house before blowing it up? Skye aka Daisy from Agents of SHIELD mentions her hacker friend "Microchip" and this was way back in Season 1 of that show. For those that don't know Microchip is The Punishers partner in his war supplying the Punisher with weapons and tech support. Also if youve been watching AoS theres at least FOUR different direct references, technology, and direct dialog from previously aired episodes of AoS that "somehow" made it into Civil War. Not a coincidence.

quote-
I'm not trying to tear you down John (honestly Im a big fan) but it rustles my jimmy when ppl just brush off things without filling in all the details and how things that happen very commonplace in comics (like heroes HAVING to show up in others comics comics ALL the time in order for them to be connected) when that rarely happens in actual comics but yet when it comes to Live Action it has different rules or something? Same rules, it works out exactly the same in Live Action as it does in the comics. Luke Cage wasnt even created until 15 years AFTER the Avengers yet ppl want them to meet in less than a year of both being in Live Action together? Huh? If you look at these like actual comics you'll see as of now there's no difference. To me the first test will be where [Defenders SPOILER] Misty gets her new Bionic arm from. Will it be Stark Tech like in the comics or not? Or will it be Hammer Tech (just like from Luke Cage AND Iron Man 2, yet another reference). That to me will be our first big test.
Thanks for listening and keep it up, John. Like I said Im a fan. And spread the word that ppl should truly look at the MCU like actual comics and the rules for both are no different. Heroes RARELY pop up to save each other in each others comics and Cap doesnt have to show up on Netflix (and vice versa) for things to be connected. The Savage Land also exists in the MCU somewhere so do we need Devil Dinosaur to show up in Jessica Jones Season 2 to confirm that? Nope.?

Nomnso Okeke2 hours ago
The events of the Defenders were under the radar of the Avengers, and they weren't even in NYC anyway. They're either in upstate NY or in hiding. The Avengers team is also under the Sokovia accords so they couldn't have just swept in and dealt with The Hand. It's not quite as disconnected as you say, John, especially as AoS still follows the various themes of the films. There doesn't have to be a crossover, we can simply get Easter Eggs and small bits of information that lets us know that they exist in the movie universe without actually showing up. Luke Cage on the news, Rand Enterprises/Danny Rand on the front page of a magazine, a news subtitle stating that Wilson Fisk has been released from prison, something about the Inhumans, etc. No actual crossover or physical presence, just something small that casual fans won't notice but hardcore fans would adore the MCU for. Everyone knows that the scheduling conflict makes the possibility of a film crossover too difficult, and Marvel is going more cosmic anyway?

 

[mace1]

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Marvel Cinematic Universe tie-ins

In July 2013, Jed Whedon said the series would work in tandem with the Marvel films, both past and upcoming, to weave in between the films, and to "try to make them more rewarding on both ends." He explained that each Marvel project is intended to stand alone first before there is any interweaving, and noted that the series has to work with the film division and be aware of their plans so as not to interfere when introducing someone or something to the universe. Bell elaborated that this was preferable so that people who do not watch the films can still follow the series, and vice versa. He stated that "ABC and Marvel both want the series to be able to make sense on its own", but that it was beneficial for the films to have the series fill in any "gaps" for them, due to having to be "big" and moving "quickly through a lot of huge pieces", unlike television which has time to deal with more nuances.

In January 2016, Joss Whedon noted that this process "unfortunately just means the TV show gets, you know, leftovers." He stated that, for example, the series' creative team initially wanted to use Loki's scepter from The Avengers but were unable due to Whedon's plans for it in Age of Ultron. On how their ability to connect with the films changed over the life of the series, Jed Whedon said, "The rule when we started was we couldn't say anything about spies, we couldn't say anything about Hydra, we couldn't have any A.I. or robots or anything like that, because all of that was coming in movies that year or the year after. Since then, they've blown those doors wide open." He added, "We have relatively free rein [in what the series can introduce and connect to]; we just can't go anywhere that [the films are] going. They know their stories so much further out than we do, which is good for us to tee up things that we know are coming to them or avoid things that they want to be special on the big screen. As long as we are not covering bases that they're going to cover, we haven't been told "no" that much". As an example, Whedon noted the fourth season's Framework storyline as "something that's pretty significant in our world, but is also a little eddy in the river that doesn't affect anything else because it's an alternate universe. So those kinds of stories help us go big without sending ripples through the whole MCU."

The series mimics the films' post credits scenes with 'end tags', starting with the episode "0-8-4" which features a Samuel L. Jackson cameo. Bell explained, "Sometimes it'll be funny, sometimes it'll be a mythology thing ... or an extra little reveal about" the episode. The end tag for "End of the Beginning" is a "directly lifted" scene from Captain America: The Winter Soldier.

The series' first major tie-in episode with the wider MCU was "The Well", which begins immediately after Thor: The Dark World. The episodes "End of the Beginning" and "Turn, Turn, Turn" revolve around the events of Captain America: The Winter Soldier,which led to a retooling of the series. Flashback sequences in "Shadows" and "The Things We Bury" featuring Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter served as marketing and set-up for the Agent Carter television series.The events of "The Frenemy of My Enemy" and "The Dirty Half Dozen" led up to the opening sequence of Avengers: Age of Ultron, while "Scars" deals with the aftermath of that film. The third season follows similar themes to the film Captain America: Civil War, focusing on powered people and the different responses to them, leading up to the episode "Emancipation", which takes place after the film and shows how its events affect the series' powered characters.

The episode "T.A.H.I.T.I." introduces the Kree alien race to the MCU, members of which play a significant role in Guardians of the Galaxy. This begins a storyline that recurs throughout the series, and introduces Inhumans to the MCU, with Jed Whedon saying that it was something "in the works" for a long time, as Marvel Studios had plans for an Inhumans film, and this would be "one of the first instances where we get to start planting the seeds on the show before the film." The third season introduces the concept of the Secret Warriors, with new Inhuman characters inspired by the comic of the same name, while also retconning the history of Hydra in the MCU, tying it into the Inhumans storyline. Gregg noted in January 2016 that the "writer and director [of the Inhumans film] will have free rein to do what they want to do with the Inhumans, but hopefully there'll be some way that our Inhumans connect to that."When the film was removed from Marvel Studios' release schedule, Whedon noted that the series had "a little more freedom" and were "able to do a little bit more" with the species going into the fourth season, including the potential of introducing some of the "classic" Inhumans. Marvel's Inhumans, a television series centered on Black Bolt and other members of the Inhuman Royal Family, was announced in November 2016 to air on ABC in September 2017. It is not intended to be a spin-off of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

The fourth season explores the concept of Life Model Decoys (LMDs), which were first referenced in The Avengers, and introduces the character Ghost Rider to the MCU. On why the series waited to begin exploring LMDs, Jed Whedon said that the series previously did not want to explore the concept before the release of Avengers: Age of Ultron, which sees the introductions of Ultron and Vision in a similar manner to LMDs. On introducing Ghost Rider, Whedon said that "with Doctor Strange coming out this year, the Marvel [Cinematic] Universe is moving into new waters," referring to the exploration of magic. "We felt that this was obviously a great character that we'd love to have on our show that we feel fits with that shift." The season also continues storylines from the second season of Agent Carter, with the reveal that the Momentum Energy Labs group is a successor to the Isodyne Energy company, with both companies connected by the parent company Roxxon, a mainstay of the MCU. In August 2017, Emily VanCamp said that discussions had taken place for her to reprise her role of Sharon Carter for the series, but there were conflicts with her starring role on the series Revenge.

Another example.
Runaways (TV series)

Loeb confirmed in July 2017 that the series would be set in the MCU, but that the show's characters would not be concerned with the actions of the Avengers, for example, saying, "Would you be following Iron Man [on social media] or would you be following someone your own age? The fact that they’ve found each other and they’re going through this mystery together at the moment is what we’re concerned about, not what Captain America is doing." The showrunners considered the series' connection to the MCU to be "liberating", as it allowed them to set the series in a universe where superheroics and fantasy are already established and do not need to be explained to the audience. Schwartz said they "were very capable of telling the story that we wanted to tell independent of any of the other Marvel stories that are out there." Loeb added that there were no plans to crossover across networks with the similarly themed Marvel's Cloak & Dagger and Marvel's New Warriors on Freeform, as Marvel wanted the series to find its footing before further connecting with other elements of the universe, though "You'll see things that comment on each other; we try to touch base wherever we can... things that are happening in L.A. are not exactly going to be affecting what's happening in New Orleans [where Cloak & Dagger is set]... It's being aware of it and trying to find a way [to connect] that makes sense."

 

[mace1]

Loeb Reveals Why Marvel's TV Superheroes Haven't Appeared in the Movies

Jeph Loeb, president of Marvel Television, was on a Netflix panel for Luke Cage before the Television Critics Association. Loeb is in charge of all live-action and animated Marvel shows, including the Netflix titles and ABC’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and Agent Carter. When asked if we could see any of the television characters, be it Luke Cage or Daredevil, in any of the Marvel movies, Loeb explained why it would be prohibitive to the television schedules.

“I can tell you that part of the challenge of doing this sort of thing is that the movies are planned out years in advance of what it is that we are doing,” Loeb said. “Television moves at an incredible speed. The other part of the problem is that when you stop and think about it, if I’m shooting a television series and that’s going to go on over a six-month or eight-month period, how am I going to get Mike [Colter] to be able to go be in a movie? I need Mike to be in a television show.”

Loeb did not completely rule out a crossover, and some of the film characters like Nick Fury, Siff and Maria Hill have appeared on television. “Anything is possible,” Loeb continued. “As I often get reported by you folks for saying #ItsAllConnected, our feeling is that the connection isn’t just whether or not somebody is walking into a movie or walking out of a television show. It’s connected in the way that the shows come from the same place, that they are real, that they are grounded.”

A crossover also has to mean something. If they only show up for a joke, it defeats the purpose of connecting the worlds. “We have seen some characters that have appeared and crossed over,” Loeb said. “Most notably, one of our cast members that isn’t here because she’s working is Rosario Dawson, who continues the character of Claire Temple. So the short answer is we are already doing it. The long answer is as things go by, as the story dictates it, we’ve always been big fans of providing Easter eggs for our fans, but we never want to be known as an Easter egg farm. It has to work within the story. We never want to do Luke Cage gets into a cab as Foggy Nelson and Matt Murdock are getting out of the cab. For those of you that are old enough to know this reference, it’s not when The Man from U.N.C.L.E. was on Please Don’t Eat the Daisies. You actually get to see our characters interact with each other.”

Jeph Loeb Explains Why We Don’t See Avengers Tower In The Marvel/Netflix Series

You can’t talk Marvel TV unless you talk about various crossovers. Thus far, the shows haven’t touched each other much from network to network; but in an interview with Inverse, producer Jeph Loeb was asked about the new Hulu series Runaways and whether it would acknowledge the Netflix series.

“You’re obviously trying to get me into trouble by saying ‘#ItsAllConnected,’ and that’s fair. But it is all connected. And they do live in a world where Tony Stark is Iron Man, and by the same token they are aware that there are heroes that live in New York that aren’t part of the Avengers and are street level guys. What it really comes down to is story.

We can always put in a line that says “this person’s going to Hulk out,” but whether or not those stories are going to intersect with each other or those characters are going to interact with each other is complicated on a numbers of things. One is schedule, the other is they are on different networks and oftentimes networks have feelings about that that we have to take into consideration. And, lastly, and most importantly, is storytelling. We never do Easter eggs for the purpose of having an Easter egg. But Cloak and Dagger deals a lot with the people at Roxxon and people will know Roxxon for it being in other series in the same kind of way that there’s Hammer tech running around in Luke Cage, and we all know where Justin Hammer came from.
It’s all part of the Marvel universe, and if you read Marvel comics, you recognize that it’s probably fairly rare that Thor’s going to run into Ghost Rider, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t live in the same world.”

The universe is quite big, but the fun of a connected universe and bringing characters together is the whole point of all this. Why not have two polar opposites on screen and see how they react to each other? One of the other issues that tends to come up is the lack of the Avengers tower in the Netflix series, and Loeb danced around that question as well.

“I think it’s much more that we look at it from the point of view of ‘where are we?’ and having to establish that along the way. In many ways, being less specific helps the audience understand that this could be on any street corner. Where we’re sitting right now, I can see the Empire State Building, but if we were sitting 30 blocks that way, I wouldn’t be able to see the Empire State Building. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means that we can’t see it from where we are.”
Seems like showing the tower would be a nice and easy “show don’t tell” way of connecting the movies and the television shows, but sure, angles work, too.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/10/20/jeph-loeb-continuity-marvel-tv-universe/




Marvel Cinematic Universe

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a shared universe created by Marvel Studios, designated as Earth-199999 within Marvel's multiverse system. The universe is comprised mainly by films independently made by Marvel Studios, that are always set within this same universe, much like Marvel has done with their comics.


The universe includes a series of short films, called Marvel One-Shots, launched with each film's Blu-ray release starting with Thor and finishing with Thor: The Dark World. These short films were, however, eventually discontinued.


Starting with the release of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., the universe expanded into television series, including series premiered in the ABC and Freeform channels, and in the Netflix and Hulu streaming platforms.

The franchise also includes a series of tie-in Comics and video games, released as promotional material to the films, all set within the same reality. However, some of them, especially video games, do not match the events featured in other products following their release, and are classified as non-canonical parts of this universe.

http://marvelcinematicuniverse.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe

Now maybe a new show or couple of new shows down the road in the future could be in another dimension or another earth etc.. .
Some those of shows could be in mcu and some do not have to be in mcu.
That's something to think about too.


Anyway getting back on topic.
This was another really good episode.
It's the best marvel show out there.
That's it from me.
Bye.

 

[LTuser]

Oh man the feels. Some really great acting.

I agree. There's very few tv shows, where when the characters get emotional/close to tears, I also get that way, but this ep did it..

Well, that was a twist.

Which part? Deathlock showing up? Phil on the route to death? The marriage, or Deke being the grandson of Gemma/fitz?

Are they heading toward the rift causing the explosion? Let's go with that, then. If the 3 monoliths exploding created the rift, then what happened to create the explosion in the original timeline when the Earth first exploded without them being brought to the Lighthouse to find them?

Perhaos they are going with a "This has happened before, and will happen again" sort of mantra?

My local station thought high school basketball was more important so they didn't air this until 2:00am. Haven't seen it yet.

I also hate that sort of stuff, when a local station thinks a HS sport game is going to be watched MORE than a normal show..

The problem is that the movies and TV shows don't feel like they are existing within the same reality. Fans of AOS in particular have to twist themselves in knots explaining why world changing events on the show - Terrigen fish oil! - have no impact on MCU proper. Unless there are real, meaningful connections TV and film may as well exist within different realities.

I've mentioned the fact, they seem to be doing less and less crossings between the show and the films since really S4's start with the whole sokovian accords..

Though one thing i do wonder. When they open the hanger to that lake, why is it those living ON the lake have not noticed?

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Well you have to admit that the Yo-yo Web short was the only look we had of an actual enhanced person accepting the Sokovia Accords and the registration process. Only TV has the time to fill in MCU blanks.

 

[<(o_o)>]

Grandson, it seems.

Turns out a lot of people pawn wedding rings. I had to find one that was gonna be small enough for his little-boy fingers. And then, for hers, found this ring that looks just like this one that my mom used to wear sometimes. It was my grandma's, I think.

How will they handle Deke for the rest of the season? Will he find out that he is Fitz & Simmons' grandson, will he eventually fade away from existence since he is from the future & has yet to be born, or will they simply deem him expendable and kill him off by the end of the season?

 

[scarlet-witch]

I finally watched, I loved the FitzSimmons wedding, obviously. I live for them.

I weirdly had trouble following the episode. With all the time travel and dimensions and theories, I'm just a little confused and I never have been with this show before.

It's weird.

 

[LTuser]

How will they handle Deke for the rest of the season? Will he find out that he is Fitz & Simmons' grandson, will he eventually fade away from existence since he is from the future & has yet to be born, or will they simply deem him expendable and kill him off by the end of the season?

I would LIKE to see them keep him on longer.. BUT i do feel he might be expendable.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

How will they handle Deke for the rest of the season? Will he find out that he is Fitz & Simmons' grandson, will he eventually fade away from existence since he is from the future & has yet to be born, or will they simply deem him expendable and kill him off by the end of the season?

Since General Hale knows of the familial connection Deke is probably going to find out. Of all the time travel theories I think the Back To The Future like blink from existence is the least likely. As a family member even to save grandma as a hero I doubt if he is expended. They already teased that death before the reveal.

 

[tbg]

Since General Hale knows of the familial connection Deke is probably going to find out. Of all the time travel theories I think the back To The Future like blink from existence is the least likely. As a family member even to save grandma as a hero I doubt if he is expended. They already teased that death before the reveal.

Using the Back to the Future theory, the only way Deke fades is if something happens to either Fitz or Simmons, thus negating Deke's lineage. I was hoping that they would have brought back either Raina or Zabo (Skye's dad). Hive was kind of a pointless throwback. If you're not going to show Ward (thankfully) then why even bother. Would have rather them paid homage to the late Bill Paxton and somehow CGI returned him via archive footage. Oh well.

 

[Guard82]

Wow, the 100th episode was excellent! Everybody's acting was so great, with the whole cast giving wonderful performances. Everything having to do with Coulson revealing his secret was so emotional and powerful.

The scene where Deathlok and the SHIELD agents arrive at the base to help out was great. It was a fantastic scene where you saw Mike and the SHIELD agents all walking off the plane together with the AoS theme music playing in the background magnificently. That was a perfect setup.

The rift in spacetime to the fear dimension was very cool, giving us manifestations of past enemies like Lash, Hive, the Vrellnexians, a Kree soldier, an LMD, etc. That was a lot of fun.

And at the end, the wedding between Jemma and Fitz was very nicely done, and well-earned after all these seasons of struggle keeping the two of them together. And the big reveal that Deke is their grandson was perfect.

And one of my favorite lines in the episode was one of Coulson's funniest lines, where he's going down to seal the rift to the fear dimension and says: "What are the chances there's a giant Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man down there?" ROFL!

 

[LTuser]

And one of my favorite lines in the episode was one of Coulson's funniest lines, where he's going down to seal the rift to the fear dimension and says: "What are the chances there's a giant Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man down there?" ROFL!

That certainty was a sweet call out to Ghostbusters..

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Great episode. I’m gonna miss this series when it’s gone.

 

[eon001]

Shame they wasted Joel David Moore's Noah character. Sure they could have found a cheaper actor for such a throwaway role.

Poor guy could get 2 episodes? Maybe there's duplicates of him.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Deke isn't Jemma & Fitz's child, he is their grandson or great grandson.

Which would still require them to have a kid

Are they heading toward the rift causing the explosion? Let's go with that, then. If the 3 monoliths exploding created the rift, then what happened to create the explosion in the original timeline when the Earth first exploded without them being brought to the Lighthouse to find them?

Why do people still insist that there is an original timeline? It's one timeline in a big circle.

Did anybody notice that Phil's memory on the operating table was "Mr Stark said anything you need" Meaning Mr Stark possibly always knew that Coulson survived.

I've always thought that Coulson surviving could plausibly be known. This season when he's apparently on every wanted list, it feels more likely than not. I'm perfectly happy to see an anticlimactic reunion - "hey, I'm still alive." "Yeah, we know."

That being said, Stark being aware of the surgery doesn't really mean much since he died on that table before being brought back to life.

Anyway, this episode was a perfect 100th episode overall. Fairly subdued and small, but able to draw on all the stuff from the past in surprising ways. I see it's reinvigorated the "Coulson is dead"/alternate dimension stuff but, the way I see it, this firmly puts a nail in that coffin.

 

[nypinta]

In the movie, IIRC, they made it seem like Phil died where Loki stabbed him. Fury calls it over the comms that Phil is down, Maria says medics are on their way, he says they're there and they "called it" meaning he was gone. So, if they hustled him off to some table to keep working on him (probably per Fury's orders, but they said over the comms he was dead) then there is no way Tony could know, as we see Fury using Phil's death to motivate them. Unless this is later at the TAHITI facility and Tony was filled in after the fact, but would Fury really do that? I mean, he's not really big on sharing, no matter what he said to Steve. So I think the scene with him on the table was something made up in Phil's head and the mention of Tony was just an Easter Egg to connect that moment with the first Avengers movie.

 

[Panacea]

Aside from maybe Yo-Yo, is there anyone on the team less appropriate to run SHIELD than Daisy? I get that she did in the comics, but the show needs to develop her character further for it to make sense on screen in my opinion.

 

[LTuser]

Why do you think she is more appropriate to run shield than say May, or Mac, or mocking bird?

 

[Mike Murdock]

Aside from maybe Yo-Yo, is there anyone on the team less appropriate to run SHIELD than Daisy? I get that she did in the comics, but the show needs to develop her character further for it to make sense on screen in my opinion.

She's shown herself quite capable, intelligent, and knowledgeable. The problem is people complain when she seems too competent. I don't see any particular reason why she would be a bad fit.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Everybody else is a mission specialist. Mac and engineer who wants to quit. May a fighter. Fitzsimmons scientist, although Fitz has Hydra leadership training from the Framework.

Daisy works both the backend from her original skill set and the fighting end from Ward and May before her Inhuman powers kick in. In a word about generalist from which the rank of General is inspired

 

[KingCheops]

She's shown herself quite capable, intelligent, and knowledgeable. The problem is people complain when she seems too competent. I don't see any particular reason why she would be a bad fit.

Back in Season 1 we also had Coulson saying that the main reason he recruited her away from Rising Tide was because of her heart. We've seen that played out several times over the course of the show where her empathy and genuine care for others was what turned the tide.

I suspect that Coulson sees Daisy as the path towards a better, more noble SHIELD than what came before.

 

[eon001]

I'm re-watching this ep now, and I've just watched the scene where Coulson explains his deal with Ghost Rider.

It's very moving and Coulson is very apologetic, but sometimes I wish Coulson would act like less of a Dad and more like a commander.

"These are my orders, my decisions, and as long as I'm in charge you do what I SAY!"

He had moments like that in the earlier seasons, I would like to see more of that.

 

[LTuser]

It is funny he's gone more from being a boss to being more a friend. BUT that mimics society imo. Parents have gone from being Parental to spending more time trying to be their kids best friends..