Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - LEVEL 11 - Part 9

[darthcoolness3]

I hope this Writers strike doesn't effect the rest of the season

they probably have the rest of the season already written and filmed, waiting for ABC.

 

[Panacea]

Yeah, it's more likely to effect a possible fifth season if anything.

 

[Silvermoon]

I hope this Writers strike doesn't effect the rest of the season

They finished filming this season last week (there were articles on the 18th indicating filming had wrapped)

 

[Jackolus Gamer]

With the Darkhold-technology-based machine being built, it seems its possible to bring people in the Framework to life. So with that assumption, it should be possible to bring back dead characters, such as Ward, Trip and, if by some reason Mace survived (after Aida deactivated his connection and thus unable to observe his revival in the Framework), The Patriot.

P.S. New to the site. Nice to meet you all.

 

[Endeavor]

welcome jackolus

 

[Jackolus Gamer]

welcome jackolus

That was one quick reply. Thanks :P

Feel free to point out any flaws in my theories. Getting all hyped up with all these self-brewed theories with no one to share with is a pain. Don't know why I didn't find discussion threads like this sooner.

 

[just one thing]

That was one quick reply. Thanks :P

Feel free to point out any flaws in my theories. Getting all hyped up with all these self-brewed theories with no one to share with is a pain. Don't know why I didn't find discussion threads like this sooner.

Ward has a motive for staying. his version of syke.

tripp, hope, radcliff and evil fitz seem the candidates to leave the framework.

gemma said getting it to work takes a lot of energy so possibly not all of them.

 

[Jackolus Gamer]

Ward has a motive for staying. his version of syke.

That's true. Perhaps have him hook up to the "Real World" through a Framework-like terminal in the Framework as an LMD?

tripp, hope, radcliff and evil fitz seem the candidates to leave the framework.

I am not sure if Radcliff would wanna be back after losing Agnes. Probably wanna have the Framework dismantled.

Hope would be a sweet candidate.

gemma said getting it to work takes a lot of energy so possibly not all of them.

Well lets hope they make the right choice then :P

I just hope that there won't be a situation where someone who shouldn't step into the Looking Glass Machine stepped into it...

 

[ZIPBAGS]

With the Darkhold-technology-based machine being built, it seems its possible to bring people in the Framework to life. So with that assumption, it should be possible to bring back dead characters, such as Ward, Trip and, if by some reason Mace survived (after Aida deactivated his connection and thus unable to observe his revival in the Framework), The Patriot.

P.S. New to the site. Nice to meet you all.

I was thinking the same thing and was coming here to post the same thing. One other person who could cone out of the framework...Mac's daughter.

 

[coluanprime]

Tbh, I'm rooting for Victoria Hand to come out, but I know that's not going to happen. Ideally Trip or Hope would be great.

 

[Chemistro]

That was one quick reply. Thanks :P

Feel free to point out any flaws in my theories. Getting all hyped up with all these self-brewed theories with no one to share with is a pain. Don't know why I didn't find discussion threads like this sooner.

The tech would seem to allow them to bring people from the framework. However, even if they look the same as dead characters, they are not the same characters. They're copies that may be similar or not so similar. In the case of Mace, it would be a perfect match or almost so, since they have a brain scan up to the moment of death, and that machine gets either all of the info from the brain, or nearly all. In the case of other agents, they at best have some old SHIELD brain scan (if that) not designed to acquire the kind of info needed for the process. In the case of most people, they probably don't have any scans, so the copies would only distantly resemble the originals. I'm not sure what sort of scan (if any) they have of Ward, Hand, or Tripp.

 

[Chemistro]

I was thinking the same thing and was coming here to post the same thing. One other person who could cone out of the framework...Mac's daughter.

She could. But would the Mack of the outside world even remember her?
After all, if the memories are back to the way they were before, he knows nothing about her. If he keeps both sets of memories, that would probably be a seriously confused Mack.

 

[Silvermoon]

She could. But would the Mack of the outside world even remember her?
After all, if the memories are back to the way they were before, he knows nothing about her. If he keeps both sets of memories, that would probably be a seriously confused Mack.

Why wouldn't he? Radcliffe (when his real world body was still alive) was going in and out of the Framework to interact with Agnes and explore the world and what not, and he remembered what he'd experienced in the Framework (he would come out and talk to Aida about how real the Framework felt). So going by that, I don't see a reason as to why the others *wouldn't* remember. Yes, it'll result in some of them being seriously confused... or even regret that they were pulled out, but that may be part of how things end this season.

 

[Vartha]

They finished filming this season last week (there were articles on the 18th indicating filming had wrapped)

Heh the writer's strike in the 70's gave birth to most the Marvel TV shows lol. I think even the two Hulk tv Movies with DD and Thor

 

[Dark Raven]

Heh the writer's strike in the 70's gave birth to most the Marvel TV shows lol. I think even the two Hulk tv Movies with DD and Thor

I expect two TV specials now with RuffaHulk battling Hemsworth Thor dressed as their TV counterparts and both of them failing to hold down a helicopter. Then I hope to see Ruffalo with a beard who transforms into a beardless Hulk and encountering Charlie Cox's DD in his black proto costume.

 

[Chemistro]

Why wouldn't he? Radcliffe (when his real world body was still alive) was going in and out of the Framework to interact with Agnes and explore the world and what not, and he remembered what he'd experienced in the Framework (he would come out and talk to Aida about how real the Framework felt). So going by that, I don't see a reason as to why the others *wouldn't* remember. Yes, it'll result in some of them being seriously confused... or even regret that they were pulled out, but that may be part of how things end this season.

But Radcliffe also remembered in the Framework everything he had experienced out of the Framework; there was continuity, and the memories were not altered. If Framework Mack came out of the Framework with Framework Mack's memories, he would remember her, but he wouldn't remember his life as a SHIELD agent. But on the other hand, they are to restore his earlier memories, they may have to - for example - reset his brain to the latest scan with the real memories, and if so, that would make him lose the memories from inside the Framework. In short, as near as I can tell, there are three "live" options:

1. He remembers both Real World Mack and Framework Mack. That would make him very confused (which is real?), perhaps overwhelm his ability to remember (brains have limited capacity), and in any case, change him considerably.
2. He remembers only Real Mack. Everything from the Framework is lost.
3. He remembers only the real experiences in the Framework, i.e., what happened to him while he was hooked up, plus fake memories he consciously recalled during that period, and no more.

I don't know which one will be the case.

Side note: I'm speaking as if "he" would lose the memories, keep the memories, etc., assuming we're talking about the same person for the sake of convenience because I wasn't trying to get into the metaphysics of identity, but the issue of identity is complicated at least. There is also the question of whether one of the worlds is or isn't "real", etc., but I'm leaving that aside too.

 

[Chemistro]

I agree "Real" Fitz should (very probably; details about the changes would help) not feel guilty when he's back because that was Framework Fitz, I don't think the real victims vs. framework victims distinction is relevant from the perspective of moral blameworthiness, for the following reasons:

1. People who play video games know that they're playing video games. Framework Fitz does not, and has no reason to believe he is.
If someone is placed in a framework but their memories are not altered, and they shoot and kill a framework person without good reason, they're as guilty as if they had shot and killed a real person outside the framework, even granting for the sake of the argument that framework people are not real - because the killer does not have any information telling him that.
In fact, I would say that Framework Fitz, if he's making his own choices, is also guilty of murder, torture, etc.; but that would not make "real-world" Fitz guilty.

2. It's at least unclear that framework people aren't people. I would further say they very probably are people. Jemma seems to have begun realizing that. Why would they not be real? They don't have human brains, sure. But a human brain is not required for consciousness or self-awareness. It's very probable that Aida is self-aware - given behavior -, but she has a computer for a brain, so why not framework people?
One could argue they're not real because there isn't enough computing power, but given their human-like behavior, it seems to me there is, at least for some of them (even if the rest of the framework is filled with non-persons due to insufficient computing power, framework Agnes or framework Radcliffe have full range of human behavior; probably the same goes for framework Mack's kid, framework's Ward, and all of those interacting daily and very closely with people, since they have to behave like people to pass for people; that might or might not extend to the whole framework).
I guess we can't be certain that human-like behavior requires self-awareness in the Marvel universe, but it seems very probable (at least, in absence of evidence to the contrary).

3. You're implying that Aida and Radcliffe are guilty. I do agree, but Aida does not have a human brain, and neither does Radcliffe after Aida killed him outside the framework.

After further consideration, I think Aida is guilty. Framework Radcliffe brings complex issues of synchronicity vs. diachronicity in moral responsibility, so I'm undecided for now.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I gotta say.. this last half of the season has been the best shield has done in a long while... it feels like watching a mini-series movie.. its all very well crafted

 

[TheRedWraith]

The tech would seem to allow them to bring people from the framework. However, even if they look the same as dead characters, they are not the same characters. They're copies that may be similar or not so similar. In the case of Mace, it would be a perfect match or almost so, since they have a brain scan up to the moment of death, and that machine gets either all of the info from the brain, or nearly all. In the case of other agents, they at best have some old SHIELD brain scan (if that) not designed to acquire the kind of info needed for the process. In the case of most people, they probably don't have any scans, so the copies would only distantly resemble the originals. I'm not sure what sort of scan (if any) they have of Ward, Hand, or Tripp.

Well in regards to Ward I want him back specifically because he is different in all the right ways but still has some similarities to Ward, as for Tripp they would want him back because he'd possess the face of their friend and seems to behave similarly enough that while they'd have to adjust it would still be like getting their friend back.

 

[Random490]

Out of Ward, Tripp, and Hope I think Hope is the most likely. Ward was wearing pretty thin even before Hive, plus what's he going to do the real world knows him as a hydra agent, with shield being legitimate they can't have him as an agent. Maybe have him quietly retire to the cabin, giving him a happy ending he always pictured. Tripp would be awesome, I was really annoyed that he died would love to have him back. Hope would be a nice happy ending for something good to come out of all of the craziness.

 

[Jordacar]

I was impatient enough to go back and watch "What If..." again, it's wild to watch Ward's scenes again knowing that he's the inside man.

 

[Web-Head]

A certain someone is coming back for the finale

Spoiler

http://tvline.com/2017/05/01/agents-of-shield-season-4-finale-ghost-rider-returns-gabriel-luna/

TVLine has learned exclusively that in the ABC series’ Season 4 finale, airing Tuesday, May 16 and titled “World’s End,” Gabriel Luna will reprise his role as Robbie Reyes aka Ghost Rider.
In that closing hour, Coulson and the team — amid the surprising emergence of Ghost Rider — attempt to stop Aida from, you know, ending the world.

 

[Dark Raven]

A certain someone is coming back for the finale

Spoiler

http://tvline.com/2017/05/01/agents-of-shield-season-4-finale-ghost-rider-returns-gabriel-luna/

I guessed he might, in order to purge AIDA of the Darkhold.

And why is this in spoiler tags? This news is on the front page of the Hype.

 

[scarlet-witch]

I guessed he might, in order to purge AIDA of the Darkhold.

And why is this in spoiler tags? This news is on the front page of the Hype.

Save us, Ghost Rider!

 

[Web-Head]

I guessed he might, in order to purge AIDA of the Darkhold.

And why is this in spoiler tags? This news is on the front page of the Hype.

Some people might have wanted it to be a surprise