Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 6

[Evil Twin]

A mystery is only really fun if there are lots of theories, clues, twists, turns, suspects, red herrings, etc. And it helps if the solution is surprising yet satisfying. S.H.I.E.L.D. subjected Coulson to all kinds of unethical surgeries isn't particularly satisfying or surprising given the possibilities of the Marvel Universe.

It's like Skye's parents. It's likely that it will turn out to be two people we never heard of before. Or that she's related to May. Either way, there's a potential for the answer to be underwhelming.

 

[Heretic]

so...you would have preferred to know who killed Laura Palmer in the first few epsiodes of Twin Peaks then?

No...because that was the reason for the show existing. However, if they had promoted "on the next episode, you will get answers to Laura's death" and then the answer was "Laura was killed by someone" then...that isn't a satisfactory answer. Now I know that you're really just stringing me along and probably making it up as you go (like on Lost).

 

[Heretic]

Uh, no. Nobody did. There were lots of theories floating around, including LMDs, magic, Asgardian technomagic (including residuals/side effects from Loki's spear), aliens, robotics, Vision, and even weirder stuff. The only thing tonight's episode did is narrowed down the field somewhat.

LMD: technology
aliens: that would be technology
Vision: created by technology
robotics: technology
magic: thus far, MCU magic is limited to Thor's people (such as Loki)...which has been explained as technology.

You were not given any answers last night. He died...and SHIELD brought him back to life, performing surgeries on him to save his brain. That was all the new info you have.

Answers to the mystery would have been "we placed your mind in a copy of you...a life model decoy." An answer would be "we found someone who actually can do voodoo like magic and they brought your soul back to your body." Saying "you were dead, then we brought you back and performed brain surgery to alter your memories" is not an answer at all. Instead, they just tossed that whole mystery in the trash without an answer and I guess now we're supposed to wonder where he was during his death time etc. Yeah...telling us that would have been giving us a bit of an answer.

 

[samsnee]

I think this show is going to run into the same problems as Lost if it keeps teasing how Coulson came back. The more you tease, the more fans speculate and come up with better answers than whatever the writers ultimately come up with, so there is inevitable disappointment. I think they're better off just revealing what they did to him, and deal with the fallout. That would be more interesting than just teases each week.

 

[Evil Twin]

Heck, take a page from Lost and how they handled John Locke's restoration from paralysis. He never cared much how he was cured, only what it meant to have a second shot at life.

 

[Heretic]

I think this show is going to run into the same problems as Lost if it keeps teasing how Coulson came back. The more you tease, the more fans speculate and come up with better answers than whatever the writers ultimately come up with, so there is inevitable disappointment. I think they're better off just revealing what they did to him, and deal with the fallout. That would be more interesting than just teases each week.

Right. The thing is...Coulson likely saw things that we didn't get to see. For some reason, the character is now intentionally not revealing to the viewer what he has learned...and the point was that we were learning alongside him.

It's like, they might as well have Skye get the paperwork proving who her parents are and she says "Ah, so now I know," and then never mention it again. That would not be a satisfactory answer because we are supposed to be finding out along with her.

 

[Endeavor]

he so malnourish

lmao

 

[Crimson King]

Count me among those that were underwhelmed. They're dragging the Coulson thing out way too long, to the point where no explanation is likely to live up to the hype. I can't believe they actually billed it as the show that would answer the big mystery. Such a huge mistake. It's the exact same ploy LOST used right before they started to shed viewers in droves.

 

[cherokeesam]

Count me among those that were underwhelmed. They're dragging the Coulson thing out way too long, to the point where no explanation is likely to live up to the hype. I can't believe they actually billed it as the show that would answer the big mystery. Such a huge mistake. It's the exact same ploy LOST used right before they started to shed viewers in droves.

But AOS is different.
They've shed viewers in droves *long* before "the big reveal."

 

[samsnee]

Heck, take a page from Lost and how they handled John Locke's restoration from paralysis. He never cared much how he was cured, only what it meant to have a second shot at life.

I think it worked in Locke's case because it was inherent that the Island had some kind of mystical powers.

The problem with AoS is that they can't acknowledge magic or even telepathy yet. I assume it's because part of is to save that for Avengers 2 and not take away from Shield seeing it firsthand there. So they do have to explain within reason how he was brought back to life from death, because if they can do it to him, why not do it for every agent?

 

[Huddsy]

LOST was at least a show about the characters. This show is going to have to rely on "the plot"...

 

[Vartha]

As far as we know for fact is

Spoiler

Fury ordered operations (over 7) that had certain unexplained "procedures" done to Phil where at one point they had his brain exposed implanting the "Magical Island memories, because Phil had to be CONSCIENCE during those unexplained procedures and they would be awful memories.
During the uncovering of those memories Phil had a visual flash of Space in some ways looked alittle like the Bifrost

That's about all we really know to be fact, other than at the Tail end we see Mike still alive with an Eye implant

How was his resurrection explained in any way that you didn't surmise beforehand?

He was dead...and through technology, he was brought back. You didn't know that already?

Now, the mystery could be where was his "soul" for a week (and why his body didnt decompose)...but honestly, I doubt very many care enough to be strung along further on the same mystery. When a tv show promises answers and doesnt deliver, the public's patience can be strained. Instead of knocking people's socks off tonight (which was needed) it was yet another dropped ball.

 

[Crimson King]

One point I want to get straight: was the reason Coulson could "never know" what happened to him explained as he'd lost the will to live before the memory implant? Was that really the reason they couldn't tell him?

 

[Heretic]

Something about the procedure, or possibly even his experiences while dead, caused him to lose the will to live...so they did more stuff to him to make him forget those experiences. For some reason, he had to be awake for this stuff.

Coulson now knows all of this stuff...but for some reason refuses to tell the viewers. The show is now being secretive beyond the storyline just to screw with people in hopes that they'll keep watching, or they really had no clue what the mystery would be so they slapped out a non-answer and expect people to accept it.

 

[Endeavor]

One point I want to get straight: was the reason Coulson could "never know" what happened to him explained as he'd lost the will to live before the memory implant? Was that really the reason they couldn't tell him?

Nah. The Doc obviously just told him half-truths, just to give him something. But there has to be something else to it. Someone being depressed or wanting to die because of a traumatic experience does not make them a "thing".

 

[Endeavor]

Something happened between his heart being torn to pieces, as the doctor said, Coulson being dead for days, several surgical procedures and then the final surgery for which Dr. Streiten was brought in. This is the one that involved that freaky robot working on his brain. Coulson made it a point to tell the doctor he knew he hadn't worked on his heart in that procedure he recalled. The actual bringing back to live happened before, and whatever was done or how, as in the heart damage being fixed and his corpse being reanimated, made Coulson into a "thing". I don't think Coulson is trying to keep things from the audience, as some have speculated. He just doesn't know yet. He's barely starting to scratch the surface of what happened to him.

 

[Vartha]

One point I want to get straight: was the reason Coulson could "never know" what happened to him explained as he'd lost the will to live before the memory implant? Was that really the reason they couldn't tell him?

or maybe something he didn't want done.
SOME people don't WANT to be kept alive by machine, maybe Fury knew that and went against that.

 

[jaqua99]

last night I watched it at my buddies appartment, and his roommate was there, who is a big DC guy. He even thought the episode was good. But prior to that, it was just wrestling matches between the two of them because he kept saying "the show suckssss" "there's no villians. It's CSI, its CSI SHIELD edition" It was pretty funny.

As far as Coulson goes. There is more to it. We definitely didn't get the answer. I am willing to bet alien stuff is involved.

 

[cherokeesam]

One point I want to get straight: was the reason Coulson could "never know" what happened to him explained as he'd lost the will to live before the memory implant? Was that really the reason they couldn't tell him?

The reason he can "never know" is very likely something supernatural, superpowered, alien, or whatever. Coulson's not human; or at least, not anymore. Streiten flat-out called him a "thing," and that's not something a surgeon is going to say about somebody just because they were feeling depressed or suicidal or something. Coulson physically *transformed* into something so horrific that Streiten can't even describe it, and he doesn't even want to remember it.

Something happened between his heart being torn to pieces, as the doctor said, Coulson being dead for days, several surgical procedures and then the final surgery for which Dr. Streiten was brought in. This is the one that involved that freaky robot working on his brain. Coulson made it a point to tell the doctor he knew he hadn't worked on his heart in that procedure he recalled. The actual bringing back to live happened before, and whatever was done or how, as in the heart damage being fixed and his corpse being reanimated, made Coulson into a "thing". I don't think Coulson is trying to keep things from the audience, as some have speculated. He just doesn't know yet. He's barely starting to scratch the surface of what happened to him.

Absolutely.
I don't think the writers are just stringing us along without really knowing how to explain Coulson's resurrection; I think last night's episode *did* answer some questions while posing a lot more. The main thing I take from the episode is that Coulson is not human, and now he has to figure out who, or what, he is.

 

[The Question]

Coulson now knows all of this stuff...but for some reason refuses to tell the viewers.

What indication is there that Coulson now knows everything? He had a vision of one traumatic suppressed memory and then filled in some of the blanks from a few scant details given to him by a doctor who wasn't there for all of what happened and only knows a little bit. It seems pretty clear to me that all he knows right now is that Tahiti was a lie, he was actually dead for several days, and that what happened to him was unethical and extremely traumatic.

 

[Eddie]

last night I watched it at my buddies appartment, and his roommate was there, who is a big DC guy. He even thought the episode was good. But prior to that, it was just wrestling matches between the two of them because he kept saying "the show suckssss" "there's no villians. It's CSI, its CSI SHIELD edition" It was pretty funny.

As far as Coulson goes. There is more to it. We definitely didn't get the answer. I am willing to bet alien stuff is involved.

It is worth noting that Skrull organ transplants are a thing in the Marvel Universe, and we did get hints of a Skrull connection in episode 4 (the formula on the chalkboard included Skrull alphabet).

 

[Endeavor]

I'm fairly certain he won't have a Skrull heart, but maybe Chitauri?

 

[Eddie]

I'm fairly certain he won't have a Skrull heart, but maybe Chitauri?

It's possible, but we've seen no sign of shapeshifting in the movie Chitauri. The shapeshifting is the reason Skrull transplants in humans can actually be done.

Also, if the final line this season is some character (maybe even Coulson) saying "He loves us", I predict that the season 2 ratings will skyrocket.

 

[Alex_Kidd]

[run through the room screaming]

ok. I love you all. I love SHIELD. I'm cryng.
The episode was really groundbreaking.

 

[jaqua99]

It is worth noting that Skrull organ transplants are a thing in the Marvel Universe, and we did get hints of a Skrull connection in episode 4 (the formula on the chalkboard included Skrull alphabet).

Kree. I still say kree.

Also, it's 12 episodes into the new season. Yes, the show isn't fantastic. But the secret isn't that big a deal. It's not like we have been waiting years.