Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 7

[Crimson King]

exactly. As I said before, I have the feeling some people just discovered TV very recently and have no ideas how shows outside of GoT or Breaking Bad worked.

I don't know about everyone else, but I discovered TV a long time ago and I think they handled the pacing of the show poorly. The writing and characterization didn't help. There's a reason Gregg and Ming Na are on the defensive, and it's not because they're doing everything right.

 

[Lord]

I think it was stated right a while back in that we live in a 13 episode world and AoS is a 22 episode show, which has hurt them because they've taken so long to build it up whereas other shows don't have to stretch as much.

The biggest shows on TV in most recent history were Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead, and Game of Thrones. They all have a continuing storyline. Arrow has a continuing storyline mixed with the plot of the week type, but that's because that's the format that works for superhero shows and is what superheroes are designed for. They have ongoing stories with "mini-stories" mixed in.

This show has started doing a much better job in that department since post-break. Hopefully it continues at this pace.

Sigh*

Facts show themselves:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/most-watched-tv-shows-top-25-2012-2013-1066503.aspx

With seven days' worth of DVR usage included in their season averages, here are the most-watched shows of the 2012-13 TV season.

1. NCIS CBS 21.6 million
2. SUNDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL NBC 21.0 million
3. THE BIG BANG THEORY CBS 19.0 million
4. NCIS: LOS ANGELES CBS 17.5 million
5. PERSON OF INTEREST CBS 16.2 million
6. AMERICAN IDOL (Wednesday) Fox 15.1 million
7. DANCING WITH THE STARS (Monday) ABC 15.0 million
8. AMERICAN IDOL (Thursday) Fox 14.8 million
9. THE VOICE (Monday) NBC 14.4 million*
10. THE WALKING DEAD AMC 14.3 million
11. DANCING WITH THE STARS (Tuesday) ABC 14.0 million
12. TWO AND A HALF MEN CBS 13.9 million
13. THE VOICE (Tuesday) NBC 13.5 million
14. BLUE BLOODS CBS 13.3 million
15. ELEMENTARY CBS 13.0 million
16. MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL ESPN 12.9 million
17. MODERN FAMILY ABC 12.7 million
18. CRIMINAL MINDS CBS 12.6 million
19. THE OT Fox 12.5 million
20. CASTLE ABC 12.5 million
21 DUCK DYNASTY A&E 12.4 million
t. 60 MINUTES CBS 12.4 million
23. VEGAS CBS 12.0 million
24. THE FOLLOWING Fox 11.9 million

Are you guys saying that NCIS and person of interest are continuing stories and not episodic? Most of the highest rated shows besides walking dead are still those with around 20 episodes and an episodic storyline, just because stuff like game of thrones and breaking bad are taking the Emmies and having some great success, it doesn't mean that most of popular tv is like that.

Tv shows with a continuing nature can fail as easily as episodic ones, just look at V. They have no excuse, people can still enjoy their one-shot episodes as long as they like the characters, the NCIS shows for example work due to the audience enjoying that. Patience? Make more intriguing storylines and have a better plot, then they won't get as many complains

 

[Donut]

They should try a 13 episode season. It worked wonders for Sleepy Hollow

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I don't know about everyone else, but I discovered TV a long time ago and I think they handled the pacing of the show poorly. The writing and characterization didn't help. There's a reason Gregg and Ming Na are on the defensive, and it's not because they're doing everything right.

or, like several people on these forums are proof of with really anything... They're passionate, and actually like what's occurring, and stand by their work.

 

[Human Torch]

They should try a 13 episode season. It worked wonders for Sleepy Hollow

I hate 13 episode seasons with a passion.That's not a series,that's a mini-series.

 

[Human Torch]

or, like several people on these forums are proof of with really anything... They're passionate, and actually like what's occurring, and stand by their work.

 

[Donut]

I hate 13 episode seasons with a passion.That's not a series,that's a mini-series.

A show can be 13 episodes. A mini series is just a couple of episodes & never comes back

 

[Crimson King]

or, like several people on these forums are proof of with really anything... They're passionate, and actually like what's occurring, and stand by their work.

What I meant was that if everything was peachy, they wouldn't be constantly asked about problems with the show. It's perfectly understandable that you and others here think it's great. That doesn't mean it's the majority opinion.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

A show can be 13 episodes. A mini series is just a couple of episodes & never comes back

and yet Downton Abbey and American Horror Story are considered "Miniseries" by the Emmys....

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What I meant was that if everything was peachy, they wouldn't be constantly asked about problems with the show. It's perfectly understandable that you and others here think it's great. That doesn't mean it's the majority opinion.

neither does that imply that the majority dislikes the show... those who dislike things tend to be more vocal than those who do... that's just normal human behavior.. we tend to focus on the bad more than we focus on the good.

 

[Loki882]

Look, I don't hate the show, or even dislike. I think that it's fun and enjoyable overall. However, I also will not deny that it has some major flaws and I think that it has the potential to be so much better with some tweeeks. Not enough to kill it for me, but I can understand why other's don't like it. I don't think that the cast/crew taking shots at people who disagree with them is the right way to go. In fact, it's counterproductive and only exacerbates the issue. Heck, even Stan freaking Lee thinks that the show could be better.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I saw flaws.. but those flaws have been slowly getting fixed over the course of the show. There's people even refusing to see any change. when that's just not true at all. it's been a slow burn, and most complaints ive heard are from people who over-sold what they hoped this show would be, or those who didn't pay much attention to what this show was CLEARLY saying it was going to be. It was never about supers. it was always about humans living in a "super" world.

 

[mkilban2]

I haven't had any problems with the show, I see people saying the characters are flat or badly written but I never had a problem and can tell they've been getting better. (Ward for example has seemed to change a lot)

I can honestly only see the show getting better. The numbers are in no way a sign on trouble for the show, and if it goes to Netflix in between season 1 and 2 the numbers will probably pick up some as well.

Some people seem to go into the show looking for the problems rather than enjoying what's given, I've never done that with anything so I guess I'm less critical. If I'm enjoying it, it's a good show to me, I don't let the numbers or interviews sway me. If you go in expecting something you're always going to find something to disappoint you, I just try and watch an episode and gauge it from there, so far each one has been great and better each week in my eyes.

 

[Loki882]

I saw flaws.. but those flaws have been slowly getting fixed over the course of the show. There's people even refusing to see any change. when that's just not true at all. it's been a slow burn, and most complaints ive heard are from people who over-sold what they hoped this show would be, or those who didn't pay much attention to what this show was CLEARLY saying it was going to be. It was never about supers. it was always about humans living in a "super" world.

I was more referring to the plots, characterizations, tone, etc. I agree with you that complaining that they're aren't enough "supers" in this show is just stupid. We knew that that would be the case from the beginning, they made that clear. However, the other things are valid complaints. The problem with a slow burn is that there has to be JUST enough interesting stuff in the "slow" parts to keep people interested. I think that there is in the case of this show, but I can perfectly understand why some people disagree. I got bored at several points myself, and I'm the guy who's cutting the show a lot of slack. It doesn't make people "whiny" and it certainly doesn't warrant Clark Gregg calling them "losers." Seriously Clark, I like you, but that was just a cheap shot, and really petty of you.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

As I said before, there have been two bad eps (084 and Girl in the Flower Dress) and the show has been steadily improving over the seven episodes since that last one. Imo of course.

 

[mkilban2]

I haven't gone back and rewatched any episodes yet, but I plan on binge watching the first season once its finished. I think I'll enjoy it more that way.

Just like Arrow now I really like, but I hate waiting week to week after watching season 1 in a few days. It's a lot easier to get invested in a show when you can watch a few episodes at a time, for me at least.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I was more referring to the plots, characterizations, tone, etc. I agree with you that complaining that they're aren't enough "supers" in this show is just stupid. We knew that that would be the case from the beginning, they made that clear. However, the other things are valid complaints. The problem with a slow burn is that there has to be JUST enough interesting stuff in the "slow" parts to keep people interested. I think that there is in the case of this show, but I can perfectly understand why some people disagree. I got bored at several points myself, and I'm the guy who's cutting the show a lot of slack. It doesn't make people "whiny" and it certainly doesn't warrant Clark Gregg calling them "losers." Seriously Clark, I like you, but that was just a cheap shot, and really petty of you.

90% of most of the shows i ever watched have a pretty much always had a slow burn.... i prefer a slow build up of characters in all honesty. Buffy, Angel, Smallville, Veronica Mars, Charmed, Supernatural, all of these shows in this very same genre.. all have had the same formula. Even Arrow has a big level of that...

key factor is all these shows also have another thing in common. They're cult shows. They don't grab everyone... and nor should they.

 

[cherokeesam]

I saw flaws.. but those flaws have been slowly getting fixed over the course of the show. There's people even refusing to see any change. when that's just not true at all. it's been a slow burn, and most complaints ive heard are from people who over-sold what they hoped this show would be, or those who didn't pay much attention to what this show was CLEARLY saying it was going to be. It was never about supers. it was always about humans living in a "super" world.

What show have *you* been watching....? Every episode I've seen so far has featured super-powered people or artifacts. And there's an increasing body of evidence that at least two of the principal characters are super-powered; and there's more super-powered regulars on the way (Deathlok, Garrett).

It's the MCU. It's about supers. Swallow the pre-season Kool-Aid all you want, but it was *always* about supers, and still is.

90% of most of the shows i ever watched have a pretty much always had a slow burn.... i prefer a slow build up of characters in all honesty. Buffy, Angel, Smallville, Veronica Mars, Charmed, Supernatural, all of these shows in this very same genre.. all have had the same formula. Even Arrow has a big level of that...

key factor is all these shows also have another thing in common. They're cult shows. They don't grab everyone... and nor should they.

Key factor is those cult shows you listed were on B-list and C-list networks who could *afford* the low ratings. A network behemoth like ABC can't. Maybe if they shuffled AOS off to ABC Family or another auxiliary network, a "cult" show could find a niche. But not in prime time, where mainstream network shows live and die (quickly) by the almighty Nielsen.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Unlike the WWE, at least the Agents of SHIELD bosses listen to the fans....somewhat.

 

[kosh33]

Interview with Clark Gregg... dont know if it has been posted already
http://shieldsite.net/s-h-i-e-l-d-on-set-clark-gregg-on-secrets-coulsons-dark-side-stan-lee/21180#

 

[Lord]

Key factor is those cult shows you listed were on B-list and C-list networks who could *afford* the low ratings. A network behemoth like ABC can't. Maybe if they shuffled AOS off to ABC Family or another auxiliary network, a "cult" show could find a niche. But not in prime time, where mainstream network shows live and die (quickly) by the almighty Nielsen.

Uhm, those shows also got stable ratings due to the people that watched it enjoying it. With Agents of SHIELD they just made something that for many is difficult to like because it doesn't grab the viewer very well, seen friends for example who dropped the show soon after due to not liking it, and they are not comic book fans, just part of the general audience, the one Marvel should be trying to grab.

 

[Xeno]

Name-calling is not the way to build a fan base. If anything, the cast should be trying to reach out to viewers, because the show needs them. It might have a guaranteed second season, but the additional season means little when a) the studio owns the network b) there has been a huge drop in numbers. I imagine Sif will draw in some additional viewers, but, they cannot rely on guest stars to carry the show. I've stuck with the show because I'm a Marvel fanboy; but, even I cannot ignore that the characters are under-developed and the first half of the season was hit or miss.

All too true. Agents of SHIELD (and its stars) need viewers a hell of a lot more than anyone needs the show. Gregg and the rest should be making the case to the disaffected that the show has improved and will continue to do so, not slamming people who stopped watching. He compared the beginning of the season to eating healthy food before having dessert. Well, watching a TV show should be a lot more entertaining than being forced to clean your plate and eat your vegetables. Healthy food doesn't have to be tasteless and neither does establishing the characters and their universe have to be bland and uninteresting.


Like you, I am a dyed-in-the-wool Marvel fan so I'm with this show for the long haul. But after the first few episodes I found it impossible to keep cutting the writers and some of the actors slack. Agents of SHIELD had the perfect opportunity to start with a huge fanbase inherited from the film universe and the fact that the producers weren't able to capture the imagination of the majority of fans speaks to the show's problems. Even Stan Lee talked about its shortcomings, which I guess makes him a loser, too.

 

[Pokkle]

You take this little story very seriously

Edit: I am not sure I was clear. I am saying some people take the word "loser" very seriously like a real/mean insult but for real it is nothing. The reactions are strange.

 

[Xeno]

You take this little story very seriously

Spoiler

You aren't a loser, Pokkle, no matter what everyone else says about you.

 

[Lord]

What show have *you* been watching....? Every episode I've seen so far has featured super-powered people or artifacts. And there's an increasing body of evidence that at least two of the principal characters are super-powered; and there's more super-powered regulars on the way (Deathlok, Garrett).

It's the MCU. It's about supers. Swallow the pre-season Kool-Aid all you want, but it was *always* about supers, and still is.



Key factor is those cult shows you listed were on B-list and C-list networks who could *afford* the low ratings. A network behemoth like ABC can't. Maybe if they shuffled AOS off to ABC Family or another auxiliary network, a "cult" show could find a niche. But not in prime time, where mainstream network shows live and die (quickly) by the almighty Nielsen.

Oh and those shows got low ratings because that's the usual ratings their networks get. And if it's such a good excuse again episodic tv series, then why is it that NCIS and Hawaii Five-0 get such great ratings while still being episodic? The same goes for Person of Interest.