Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Agents of SHIELD TV series for ABC - General Discussion - Part 7

[Visiting Arkham]

This hasn't been brought up and it annoys me to the core: the use of background score in every single scene of the show is horrendous. Watch almost any scene of the show, for some reason they've decided on an aesthetic that requires a constant score which underlines in big, black, sharpie what the emotion of the scene is. If you watch almost any high quality drama on television right now, they let the words and actors do the work for them, and they allow the scene to go on in silenece, with music only punctuating instead of overwhelming. It adds to the cheap and empty feeling of the show.

 

[cherokeesam]

Oh and those shows got low ratings because that's the usual ratings their networks get.

Why are you arguing with me? You're *agreeing* with me here. I'm saying that the lower-tier networks (UPN, CW, WB, etc.) can *afford* the lower ratings because that's about the best they can hope for. That's why second-tier networks and cable networks are the place for cult TV shows. The Big Three (or Four) networks, however, *depend* on high ratings to stay alive. ABC can't coddle a cult show for the sake of the fans if it's not bringing in competitive ratings.

And if it's such a good excuse again episodic tv series, then why is it that NCIS and Hawaii Five-0 get such great ratings while still being episodic? The same goes for Person of Interest.

I'll ask why you're arguing with me again? I'm not one of the people who's *****ing about episodic vs. procedural or whatever. I didn't say a word about "episodic" TV shows.

 

[jonathancrane]

Pre-Ordered the Art book of the series.

 

[Lord]

Why are you arguing with me? You're *agreeing* with me here. I'm saying that the lower-tier networks (UPN, CW, WB, etc.) can *afford* the lower ratings because that's about the best they can hope for. That's why second-tier networks and cable networks are the place for cult TV shows. The Big Three (or Four) networks, however, *depend* on high ratings to stay alive. ABC can't coddle a cult show for the sake of the fans if it's not bringing in competitive ratings.



I'll ask why you're arguing with me again? I'm not one of the people who's *****ing about episodic vs. procedural or whatever. I didn't say a word about "episodic" TV shows.

Sorry then, i was just arguing regarding the fact of shows like Arrow not getting higher ratings, it has to do with its network, being consistent, more people stay with it

 

[spideyboy_1111]

What show have *you* been watching....? Every episode I've seen so far has featured super-powered people or artifacts. And there's an increasing body of evidence that at least two of the principal characters are super-powered; and there's more super-powered regulars on the way (Deathlok, Garrett).

It's the MCU. It's about supers. Swallow the pre-season Kool-Aid all you want, but it was *always* about supers, and still is.

oh sammy... You still don't get it. The FOCUS and MAIN CHARACTERS are not about supers. Its about these "regular" rag tag underdog shield agent dealing with them and living in this world.. that doesn't mean they don't pop up

Key factor is those cult shows you listed were on B-list and C-list networks who could *afford* the low ratings. A network behemoth like ABC can't. Maybe if they shuffled AOS off to ABC Family or another auxiliary network, a "cult" show could find a niche. But not in prime time, where mainstream network shows live and die (quickly) by the almighty Nielsen.

... And sammy what you seem to still not grasp us that this show does "fine" in the ratings department. Argue , kick, scream, complain all you want.... But the shows nowhere near cancellation. The shows ratings are nowhere near "low".

 

[Whiskey Tango]

The show was pitched, and still is, as "normal humans in a world with supers", not as "a show about supers". How is this even in debate?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The show was pitched, and still is, as "normal humans in a world with supers", not as "a show about supers". How is this even in debate?

I have absolutely no clue. I swear people do not get that concept... And having them deal with a "super" doesn't suddenly negate that concept... It is the concept.

 

[Shikamaru]

The problem is not that the show's protagonists aren't supers, but that they're not larger-than-life. A character in a superhero world doesn't necessarily have to have superpowers, but just have a larger-than-life vibe and feel to them. Batman, Black Widow, and Hawkeye all don't have powers, but that isn't a problem because there is a larger-than-life quality to them that they emit. That quality gives off the same "awe" feeling to the audience that characters like Thor and Hulk give.

 

[mkilban2]

I imagine lots of shows would be more than happy with the numbers AoS is pulling.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The problem is not that the show's protagonists aren't supers, but that they're not larger-than-life. A character in a superhero world doesn't necessarily have to have superpowers, but just have a larger-than-life vibe and feel to them. Batman, Black Widow, and Hawkeye all don't have powers, but that isn't a problem because there is a larger-than-life quality to them that they emit. That quality gives off the same "awe" feeling to the audience that characters like Thor and Hulk give.

.... And yet batman, widow and hawkeye while not having "super" powers are still "super" heroes....

Widow is the only semi valid argument. The other two have master gadgets and in hawkeyes case nearly the inhuman ability of aim and precision.

Widow is the master spy.

I think Melinda May is EASILY up there with widow. And very much a larger than life character. Ward has too many hang ups and the rest are all novices in that department to very larger than life. You can't effectively have a show with Sydney Bristow, Chuck Norris, and Jack Bower and make them all seem larger than life.... someone is always going to appear bigger and better. They can't out shine widow, they also shouldn't be handling threats on the avengers level either

 

[Shikamaru]

.... And yet widow and hawkeye while not having "super" powers are still "super" heroes....

James Bond has a larger-than-life vibe to him as well. Nowhere to the same extent as superheroes, but there is still an "awe" feeling people get from watching Bond in action. At the very least, SHIELD's agents should have a give off a similar vibe to Bond. Maybe not to the same exact extent (Bond is the secret agent after all), but they can't feel like normal people either. That's the main problem this show's protagonists have IMO. They feel too close to normal "average Joe's", even if the show's story and context insist that they're not.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

James Bond has a larger-than-life vibe to him as well. Nowhere to the same extent as superheroes, but there is still an "awe" feeling people get from watching Bond in action. At the very least, SHIELD's agents should have a give off a similar vibe to Bond. Maybe not to the same exact extent (Bond is the secret agent after all), but they can't feel like normal people either. That's the main problem this show's protagonists have IMO. They feel too close to normal "average Joe's", even if the show's story and context insist that they're not.

And that's fine for a solo character. You can not make a whole ensemble team of not supers all seem larger than life. Because you need the smaller people to make the other look bigger.... That same rule has applied to Buffy , Batman and Arrow. The scoobies, arrow crew, and bat family have never outshined the "larger than life hero" if they were on the same level... You'd no longer have that larger than life feel

 

[Lord]

I imagine lots of shows would be more than happy with the numbers AoS is pulling.

Not on ABC, in least not a new show. I'm not from the USA and even i know that, i expecially dislike when somebody brings Arrow's numbers, considering those are normal ratings for its channel (not saying you're one of those people though)

And that's fine for a solo character. You can not make a whole ensemble team of not supers all seem larger than life. Because you need the smaller people to make the other look bigger.... That same rule has applied to Buffy , Batman and Arrow. The scoobies, arrow crew, and bat family have never outshined the "larger than life hero" if they were on the same level... You'd no longer have that larger than life feel

Problem is that Buffy has better smaller people

 

[Xeno]

The problem is not that the show's protagonists aren't supers, but that they're not larger-than-life. A character in a superhero world doesn't necessarily have to have superpowers, but just have a larger-than-life vibe and feel to them. Batman, Black Widow, and Hawkeye all don't have powers, but that isn't a problem because there is a larger-than-life quality to them that they emit. That quality gives off the same "awe" feeling to the audience that characters like Thor and Hulk give.

That is exactly the point Stan Lee himself made: That the producers should have surrounded the "everyman" Coulson with colorful characters from the comic book universe.

IGN: The show and the films have Coulson as a big player in S.H.I.E.L.D., though he’s not from the comic books. Is it interesting for you to see it branch out like that?

Lee: Well, I guess they felt they had to have some normal people — or seemingly normal people — and certainly Clark is doing a very good job playing the role. I just feel that we also need more colorful characters to be popping up all the time. I don't mean that Clark isn't colorful as an actor, but what I mean is characters who as comic book characters are more colorful.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/01/stan-lee-previews-his-marvels-agents-of-shield-cameo

Stan knows a thing or two about storytelling. The producers should have listened to the man and created characters for Coulson's team who were much more charismatic and interesting than the bland nonentities they came up with. Then they let Coulson function as the competent center of activity, a badass in his own right who stays in control while chaos goes on around him.

 

[Xeno]

James Bond has a larger-than-life vibe to him as well. Nowhere to the same extent as superheroes, but there is still an "awe" feeling people get from watching Bond in action. At the very least, SHIELD's agents should have a give off a similar vibe to Bond. Maybe not to the same exact extent (Bond is the secret agent after all), but they can't feel like normal people either. That's the main problem this show's protagonists have IMO. They feel too close to normal "average Joe's", even if the show's story and context insist that they're not.

Had they added comic book agents like Quartermain, Bridge and Daisy Johnson, along with Coulson, May and Akeela Amador, no one would be talking about the blandness of the main characters.

 

[Visiting Arkham]

A big problem is that this feels like S.H.I.E.L.D.'s D-team. After seeing them being a very competent and top-tier spy organization, we are following a rookie team without a ton of charisma or sense of gravitas. My biggest disappointment is that I was expecting a Mission: Impossible level of competence and skill, and instead it's more like Agent Cody Banks.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Not on ABC, in least not a new show. I'm not from the USA and even i know that, i expecially dislike when somebody brings Arrow's numbers, considering those are normal ratings for its channel (not saying you're one of those people though)

Problem is that Buffy has better smaller people

not in the first season they didnt...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Had they added comic book agents like Quartermain, Bridge and Daisy Johnson, along with Coulson, May and Akeela Amador, no one would be talking about the blandness of the main characters.

problem with that though, is giving characters a comic book name, doesn't suddenly make them more interesting. the general populous has no clue about those characters anyway....

 

[spideyboy_1111]

A big problem is that this feels like S.H.I.E.L.D.'s D-team. After seeing them being a very competent and top-tier spy organization, we are following a rookie team without a ton of charisma or sense of gravitas. My biggest disappointment is that I was expecting a Mission: Impossible level of competence and skill, and instead it's more like Agent Cody Banks.

honestly? id much rather see the "underdogs" that are human beings rather than top level of bland spies. As much as I love Widow and Hawkeye.. it'd be boring and bland as hell watching a TV show with 6 of them on it...

 

[Visiting Arkham]

honestly? id much rather see the "underdogs" that are human beings rather than top level of bland spies. As much as I love Widow and Hawkeye.. it'd be boring and bland as hell watching a TV show with 6 of them on it...

I'd be fine with that, but instead of a "top level" we are getting a bottom level of bland spies.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'd be fine with that, but instead of a "top level" we are getting a bottom level of bland spies.

that have been building up. It's much easier to start at the bottom and work their way up (and more interesting to show and write) than have them already start out at the top. Starting at the bottom is the best way to make the characters grow. that's just common sense.

 

[Lord]

not in the first season they didnt...

Yes they did. Even characters who seemed annoying at first developed soon after, that's one of the few shows that pulled me in right at the begining.

 

[jonathancrane]

...

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Yes they did. Even characters who seemed annoying at first developed soon after, that's one of the few shows that pulled me in right at the begining.

and good for you. Buffy was the highlight of season 1 to me, i didn't get pulled in to anyone else until season 2... Season 1 of Buffy wasn't all that great

 

[Shikamaru]

And that's fine for a solo character. You can not make a whole ensemble team of not supers all seem larger than life. Because you need the smaller people to make the other look bigger.... That same rule has applied to Buffy , Batman and Arrow. The scoobies, arrow crew, and bat family have never outshined the "larger than life hero" if they were on the same level... You'd no longer have that larger than life feel

The problem is that the protagonists are the "normal ones" whereas the rest of the world is far more larger-than-life.