The Dark Knight Rises Agree or Disagree: John Blake is the root of the problems in TDKR

[MAKAVELI25]

1. The ending would have been much more effective if Gotham didn't need another Batman at all. The city was already cleaned up before Bane arrived, I think the idea of Bruce ending his career would have ben much more powerful if he had done his job so well that Gotham would never need a masked hero again.

2. Screentime. I get why Blake needed so much screentime based on what Nolan was trying to do, but I really don't care about the character at all. All the time devoted to him could have helped develop Bane, Catwoman, and even Talia. I would venture to say the movie would have been better if he was taken out completely

3. What made Blake all that different from the fake Batmen in TDK? They were pretty good with guns for civilians, and were also good enough detectives to know when the deal with the Russians (or Czechnians) was going down. Bruce trained for 7 years to become Batman, how the heck is John Blake gonna be able ot take ovr

4. The orphanage subplot. By far one of the most boring parts of the movie. I guess they wanted to connect Blake with Dick Grayson somehow, but this again goes back to the screentime.

Note: This thread is in no way a reflection on JGL's performance. He is one of my favorite young actors, my gripe is with the character himself

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I disagree. I loved Blake and thought he was a great character. Though the first viewing experience felt like he was there a bit too much, it gets better on repeated viewings.

In regards to Gotham being cleaned up at the beginning of the film; there was no way that would've lasted. Nolan was adamant in the lead-up to the film that though the city was at peace, they were still rotting underground (one of the reasons they use the Sewers as a frequent setting). It was only a matter of time before things would've gotten worse again. Bane just so happened to accelerate that.

Gotham may have peace again at the end of the film. We just don't see it. Blake taking up the mantle and continuing Bruce's War on Crime is left up to the viewer. The Batman became the symbol for Gotham to rally behind (though Nolan poorly showed that) and it's likely the people began to pick themselves up again thanks to Bruce.

 

[The Joker]

TDKR's problems go beyond Blake. I do agree he had too much screen time, when other characters like Selina, Gordon and Alfred did not have enough IMO.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The complete and utter lack of a voice for the citizens of Gotham and by extension the lack of scenes elucidating the siege on Gotham is a bigger problem for one. As are the bungling of Selina, Foley, and Bruce's arcs (including his romantic subplot with Talia) and the lack of resolution for Gordon. We are allowed bits and pieces of his supposed guilt over the Harvey Dent issue yet we never see it resolved properly. I suppose he will be guilty for life now. Washing over his sorrow with alcohol in the corner of his apartment.

 

[the last son]

Agree. Blake was the worst character in the series. Annoying down to the core. Nothing likeable about this character. From the way he finds out who Batman is, to being in every scene knowing way too much, to him taking over. Why Nolan thought this was a good idea and no one stepped in to stop them is beyond me. Nothing he did gave me confidence as to why Bruce likes him so much. Should have cut this character out completely. The movie focused more on this guy than Wayne. Unbelievable.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

He was my least favorite new character, and it's all to set up the last shot of the film (and the trilogy) and get people salivating for a sequel. But to me it's all a big backfire. His sub-plot interrupting the cool chase sequence at the end (which amounts to naught but Blake being shown to be a hothead yet again and disenchanted with the police) is pretty annoying as well. Blake's time would have been better spent on...anybody else, such as Batman.

 

[tekken]

I liked John Blake's character - he represents everything Robin does in the comics.

 

[the last son]

I liked John Blake's character - he represents everything Robin does in the comics.

Outside of being dry, not witty, not interesting, uses guns, no personality.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

This is simply how JGL is under Nolan's direction. That was exactly how he was in Inception.

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[marty mcfly]

I agree that John Blake is the root of YOUR problems with the film.

As a character I thought he was well developed and I think JGL did a great job playing him. I think the biggest problem for most fans of this series is that TDKR was not enough of a "Batman" movie for them. TDK had nonstop action, nonstop Batman, The Joker, Two-Face, etc. Very much the epitome of a "Batman" flick. TDKR had major characters but Batman himself only appears in a few scenes. I think that's what is bothering most of the people on these boards. John Blake had too much screen time, Bruce Wayne was injured for too long, not enough Bane not enough Catwoman, yadda yadda yadda.

But if you watch the film and just don't compare it to TDK, it's a fantastic film. I've seen it 4 times already and it gets better every time.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

 

[ultimatefan]

Disagree completely, in every aspect. Bye.

 

[Eggyman]

I liked him in it, but he is a problem. I don't think he's the root of the film's problems. It's not really about screentime. It felt a little random to me. I didn't expect it, so bravo, but that doesn't help me like it. Batman is incorruptible. The city needs a hero with a face. The face is corrupted. Batman pretends to be corrupted. The truth. Anyone can be Batman. I get it. It kinda flows. It also kinda blows.

 

[JawZ270589]

"Should have cut this character out completely."

Hahahaha...

OK, we're talking about 'legend', dude..
The unstoppable, can't be destroyed or locked up, immortal.

Of course, this film needs that inheritant figure to continue the legacy.

We have Don Diego de la Vega - Alejandro Murrieta in Zorro.
We have Eric Cantona - David Beckham - Cristiano Ronaldo; those great #7 in Manchester United.
We have Bruce Wayne - Azrael, Dick Grayson, Terry McGinnis (now John Blake) in Batman.


"I think the idea of Bruce ending his career would have ben much more powerful if he had done his job so well that Gotham would never need a masked hero again."
Crime and injustice will always be there. No matter how clean the system is, there will be corruption sooner or later. It is an endless war.
In Nolan's Batman, The Harvey Dent Act” has been exposed as a lie, the essential cogs in the organized crime machine have been let loose upon the city, and we can assume that they’ll go back to their illegal ways.

Besides, if Batman is dead at the end, he is not immortal, can be destroyed, just a memory (very contradictive to what Ra's and Bruce had in mind).
Someone needs to take up the mask and cape.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Agree or disagree: The problems with this part of the forums is too many nitpick threads?

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Indeed this thread could/should be merged with the John Blake thread.

 

[Rockbottom]

Im not a huge fan of Blake, the only problem I have is the idea (although personally I dont think he actually does) that he could become Batman after Bruce. Only Bruce Wayne should be able to be Batman, if he isn't one of a kind then how can he be the absolute best? If he isn't the best then it makes it harder to believe he can achieve everything he does.

Take away the last few seconds of the film and I have no problems with Blake.

 

[HighFivingMF]

No. Blake's awesome. Movie's great.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Blake was brilliant. JGL delivered in spades.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The biggest problem of TDKR - screen time. The story is too huge to fit into 2:35. To many story lines. But I love the conception.

I don't have a single problem with Blake. I just think that this story deserved two movies. The first one - just like The Empire Strikes Back. The second - Return Of The Jedi. Only with MUCH BETTER ending.

 

[kvz5]

TDKR's problems go beyond Blake. I do agree he had too much screen time, when other characters like Selina, Gordon and Alfred did not have enough IMO.

My opinion's the same.

Also, his character is too much of a Gary Stu for my liking. Overall, IMO, Nolan fell in love too much with the character and went overboard with it which made the arc of the other characters that I prefer more like Gordon suffer.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

I disagree. John Blake felt like a extension of Bruce's hopes for Harvey in TDK, except he made it to the end of the film without being corrupted or dying. As for 'Hes going 2 b batman, the suit wont fit him, hes only a rookie cop omg!' that's entirely left up for the viewer to decide. There's no note attached to the coordinates that say 'You're Batman now, have fun!' because the regular cops have the will to reclaim their city now. He knows where the Batcave is, and he can use its resources like the Batcomputer, he won't necessarily go out wearing the Batsuit looking for muggers.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

I disagree. John Blake felt like a extension of Bruce's hopes for Harvey in TDK, except he made it to the end of the film without being corrupted or dying. As for 'Hes going 2 b batman, the suit wont fit him, hes only a rookie cop omg!' that's entirely left up for the viewer to decide. There's no note attached to the coordinates that say 'You're Batman now, have fun!' because the regular cops have the will to reclaim their city now. He knows where the Batcave is, and he can use its resources like the Batcomputer, he won't necessarily go out wearing the Batsuit looking for muggers.

Agreed, I think its hilarious people are saying things like "he has no training!!!!" to attack the character. Frankly, who cares? Its what makes the ending so rewarding. Its a fresh start for everyone. Bruce, Gotham, Blake...

We'll never know how great of a crimefighter Blake turned out to be and that's great.

 

[BlackFox]

Disagree completely, never had a problem with Blake at all in this film and loved the fact I was watching "Robin" without even knowing it all along as well, even though I'm no Robin fan. Made perfect sense as well with Batman inspiring someone else to take on the mantle, all fitted perfectly for me, shame it didnt for some.

 

[SpiderBat]

I loved the Blake sub-plot. Made the movie for me.

 

[Frodo]

I don't think Blake was at the root of the problems , though i'm not as crazy about him as some fans are. I could care less about a John Blake Batman or Nightwing or whatever in the future Nolanverse. He was probably the best live action Robin we've had , but I don't think he's anything special. JGL did a good job with the part , but my favorite JGL role is still Tom from 500 Days of Summer.

Imo The problems with TDKR have to do with one too many plot threads,, Talia's character or lack there of, and a kinda rushed ending. So for me , Blake didn't hurt the film but its not like the story couldnt have been done without his character. Then again , the same could apply to Catwoman , and I think the film would have been a total drag without her . So , sometimes a characters worth isn't always measured by being a major piece to the plot or story.