Homecoming All the technical details of this deal

[DigificWriter]

These movies are going to happen. Making them has the potential to generate huge financial benefits for Sony, especially if the deal they've made with Marvel Studios keeps getting extended and expanded in future and they can use events in MS-financed films to 'seed' foundational ideas for these films.

 

[Spider2099]

I didn't realize you could see into the future. The current status is that they are happening but that doesn't say much. Sony said that Amazing Spider-Man 3 and 4 were definitely happening and that didn't go very far.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sony said that Amazing Spider-Man 3 and 4 were definitely happening and that didn't go very far.

Only because of this deal with Marvel Studios and because Sony decided they weren't happy with the way TASM2 performed.

 

[Shikamaru]

Creatively speaking, this deal could work in Spidey's favor big time.

Spider-Man is one of those characters that has a "pocket universe" - a large set of mythos within a larger set of mythos - and always had a degree of independence that someone like Iron Man does not. Whereas the Avengers need solo stories almost as much as they need team stories, and in cases like Widow and Hawkeye they need team stories even more. That's why a lot of Iron Man/Cap/Thor villains are also Avengers villains.

On the other hand, Spider-Man teaming up with certain characters has always been a great aspect of the Marvel mythos. He may not always work as a team player, but you just can't resist seeing him interact with other characters nevertheless.

I'm hoping this allows them to strike a perfect balance, where we have a natural fitting Spidey appearing throughout Marvel but his own solo stories are self contained enough to let the Spider-Man mythos stand on its own.

Basically you need to watch the solo films to get the full MCU experience, but you don't need to watch all the MCU films to get the Spider-Man experience.

 

[craigdbfan]

Only because of this deal with Marvel Studios and because Sony decided they weren't happy with the way TASM2 performed.

Which should tell you enough as to who's in control here.

Marvel/Disney didn't need this. They were able to turn Guardians of the Galaxy into a juggernaut. Obviously they want Spider-Man but it wasn't an utter necessity.

Sony on the other hand had very few options left. You keep painting Sony as this confident and completely in control studio but they're far from it and not the power player in this deal right now. Creatively they were bankrupt and needed Marvel Studios to revitalize a character that they were doing a dandy job of butchering.

 

[DigificWriter]

^

Creatively speaking, this deal could work in Spidey's favor big time.

Spider-Man is one of those characters that has a "pocket universe" - a large set of mythos within a larger set of mythos - and always had a degree of independence that someone like Iron Man does not. Whereas the Avengers need solo stories almost as much as they need team stories, and in cases like Widow and Hawkeye they need team stories even more. That's why a lot of Iron Man/Cap/Thor villains are also Avengers villains.

On the other hand, Spider-Man teaming up with certain characters has always been a great aspect of the Marvel mythos. He may not always work as a team player, but you just can't resist seeing him interact with other characters nevertheless.

I'm hoping this allows them to strike a perfect balance, where we have a natural fitting Spidey appearing throughout Marvel but his own solo stories are self contained enough to let the Spider-Man mythos stand on its own.

Basically you need to watch the solo films to get the full MCU experience, but you don't need to watch all the MCU films to get the Spider-Man experience.

That's exactly what the current parameters of this deal offers and why it benefits Sony far more than it does Marvel Studios, especially in the long run.

It's also the reason why the deal pretty much guarantees that we'll still see Sony's planned 'side project' films at some point, even if it takes longer for them to materialize than it would've before.

 

[Spider2099]

Creatively speaking, this deal could work in Spidey's favor big time.

Spider-Man is one of those characters that has a "pocket universe" - a large set of mythos within a larger set of mythos - and always had a degree of independence that someone like Iron Man does not. Whereas the Avengers need solo stories almost as much as they need team stories, and in cases like Widow and Hawkeye they need team stories even more. That's why a lot of Iron Man/Cap/Thor villains are also Avengers villains.

On the other hand, Spider-Man teaming up with certain characters has always been a great aspect of the Marvel mythos. He may not always work as a team player, but you just can't resist seeing him interact with other characters nevertheless.

I'm hoping this allows them to strike a perfect balance, where we have a natural fitting Spidey appearing throughout Marvel but his own solo stories are self contained enough to let the Spider-Man mythos stand on its own.

Basically you need to watch the solo films to get the full MCU experience, but you don't need to watch all the MCU films to get the Spider-Man experience.

I think that makes sense. Spider-Man exists within his own 'bubble' of the Marvel universe in the comics, but occasionally he teams up with other characters and gets involved in crossover events. I think he should be involved with the Infinity War, Civil War, and possibly even the Secret War storyline (if they ever go that route). He will exist in the MCU but do his own thing. It would be nice if he and Daredevil can both share Kingpin as a villain and if Spider-Man's foes can be shared with other characters as well. Wouldn't it be cool to have Norman Osborn appear in an Iron Man or Captain America movie as a character?

 

[Spider-Gnome]

Creatively speaking, this deal could work in Spidey's favor big time.

Spider-Man is one of those characters that has a "pocket universe" - a large set of mythos within a larger set of mythos - and always had a degree of independence that someone like Iron Man does not. Whereas the Avengers need solo stories almost as much as they need team stories, and in cases like Widow and Hawkeye they need team stories even more. That's why a lot of Iron Man/Cap/Thor villains are also Avengers villains.

On the other hand, Spider-Man teaming up with certain characters has always been a great aspect of the Marvel mythos. He may not always work as a team player, but you just can't resist seeing him interact with other characters nevertheless.

I'm hoping this allows them to strike a perfect balance, where we have a natural fitting Spidey appearing throughout Marvel but his own solo stories are self contained enough to let the Spider-Man mythos stand on its own.

Basically you need to watch the solo films to get the full MCU experience, but you don't need to watch all the MCU films to get the Spider-Man experience.

That's what I'm hoping as well. I would just feel better if Spidey was under Marvel's creative control instaed of Sony.

 

[DigificWriter]

Which should tell you enough as to who's in control here.

Marvel/Disney didn't need this. They were able to turn Guardians of the Galaxy into a juggernaut. Obviously they want Spider-Man but it wasn't an utter necessity.

Sony on the other hand had very few options left. You keep painting Sony as this confident and completely in control studio but they're far from it and not the power player in this deal right now. Creatively they were bankrupt and needed Marvel Studios to revitalize a character that they were doing a dandy job of butchering.

Sony's in charge; they just reached out to Marvel Studios to help them get their franchise steering back in the right direction.

 

[Spider2099]

Sony is ultimately in charge but we don't know how much creative freedom they are giving to Feige and Marvel.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I think that makes sense. Spider-Man exists within his own 'bubble' of the Marvel universe in the comics, but occasionally he teams up with other characters and gets involved in crossover events. I think he should be involved with the Infinity War, Civil War, and possibly even the Secret War storyline (if they ever go that route). He will exist in the MCU but do his own thing. It would be nice if he and Daredevil can both share Kingpin as a villain and if Spider-Man's foes can be shared with other characters as well. Wouldn't it be cool to have Norman Osborn appear in an Iron Man or Captain America movie as a character?

I was just talking about that. Wouldn't it be cool to cast Bryan Cranston as Norman Osborn and make Phase 4 a sort of adaption of Dark Reign?

 

[DigificWriter]

Sony is ultimately in charge but we don't know how much creative freedom they are giving to Feige and Marvel.

Significantly less than people think based on the parameters of the deal as outlined.

 

[Shikamaru]

^



That's exactly what the current parameters of this deal offers and why it benefits Sony far more than it does Marvel Studios, especially in the long run.

It's also the reason why the deal pretty much guarantees that we'll still see Sony's planned 'side project' films at some point, even if it takes longer for them to materialize than it would've before.

Two things.

1. Sony does have final say, but Marvel has the most creative input and pretty much has them by the balls. They have no choice but to listen, because they have everything to lose while Marvel has everything to gain. That may change in the future, but it won't change anytime soon.

2. The spinoffs are already have a million times more potential now than before, because there is a greater universe to work with and greater sandbox to play in. There are way more interesting story possibilities now.

 

[Spider2099]

I was just talking about that. Wouldn't it be cool to cast Bryan Cranston as Norman Osborn and make Phase 4 a sort of adaption of Dark Reign?

Hmm...

^ Most likely significantly less than people think, at least based on the parameters of the deal as outlined.

Maybe, maybe not. We know that Marvel isn't just taking a backseat when they push most of their movies out of the way for this 2017 Spider-Man film. We only have confirmation that Sony still owns Spider-Man and that Feige is co-producing with Amy Pascal.

Feige's payment has not been confirmed and has only been discussed in news articles. We don't know if he is really doing it "for free" and if Sony is just going to take over completely. They are integrating a new character in the MCU and he has to fit the universe well enough. You are making just as many assumptions as those who believe that the deal is infinitely better than it may be.

 

[DigificWriter]

IGN didn't just pull the bit about Feige not being paid out of their a**. It came from somewhere, and since it didn't appear in either the THR or Variety reports that were cited in IGN's article on the situation, it's likely it came from people that they talked to directly about the deal.

 

[Spider2099]

Funny because they also reported that Spider-Man would be appearing in Civil War and you argued how that was never confirmed. Yet you really stand by this "Feige is not getting paid" bit.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Have they confirmed SM's involvement in Avengers 3?

Despite digific writer answering as just "no," (maybe he's right), I thought the entire point of pushing back the rest of the phase 3 movies and making room for the spidey reboot WAS partly to buildup for him being an avenger in the infinity wars.

 

[Zarex]

Sony's in charge; they just reached out to Marvel Studios to help them get their franchise steering back in the right direction.

Before Disney purchased Marvel, Sony controlled both TV and animation rights to Spidey, had a 25% interest in merchandise through the Spider-Man Limited Partnership and had full control of the character's cinematic appearances.

Now, Sony has no interest in TV, animation and merchandise, and has shared control over the character's cinematic appearances.

Sony is not nearly as in charge of the situation as you seem to believe.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Have they confirmed SM's involvement in Avengers 3?

The Sony leaks made it sound like this was the whole point of the deal along with getting him for Civil War.

 

[Spider2099]

Despite digific writer answering as just "no," (maybe he's right), I thought the entire point of pushing back the rest of the phase 3 movies and making room for the spidey reboot WAS partly to buildup for him being an avenger in the infinity wars.

It's not a guarantee until it's been confirmed, but I'm sure that's the plan. Otherwise there would be no need to push back all of these other films and let this deal go through.

Also, people want to see Spider-Man in an Avengers movie. If this isn't leading into his appearance in Infinity War then I don't see the point. I remember the guy from Latino Review said that Spider-Man would appear in Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 with all of the newer phase 3 characters (black panther, dr. strange) and then return for part 2 with Iron Man and friends. This isn't confirmed by any means, but I'm just saying what was reported by Dave Gonzales.

 

[DigificWriter]

Before Disney purchased Marvel, Sony controlled both TV and animation rights to Spidey, had a 25% interest in merchandise through the Spider-Man Limited Partnership and had full control of the character's cinematic appearances.

Now, Sony has no interest in TV, animation and merchandise, and has shared control over the character's cinematic appearances.

Sony is not nearly as in charge of the situation as you seem to believe.

Not according to the parameters of the deal as outlined.

Sony is 'leasing' USAGE of the character to Marvel Studios, but they get to determine practically everything about the character other than the storyline specifics of how MS uses him.

Marvel Studios is the one with far less control of the situation, at least under the deal as outlined.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

It's not a guarantee until it's been confirmed, but I'm sure that's the plan. Otherwise there would be no need to push back all of these other films and let this deal go through.

Also, people want to see Spider-Man in an Avengers movie. If this isn't leading into his appearance in Infinity War then I don't see the point. I remember the guy from Latino Review said that Spider-Man would appear in Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 with all of the newer phase 3 characters (black panther, dr. strange) and then return for part 2 with Iron Man and friends. This isn't confirmed by any means, but I'm just saying what was reported by Dave Gonzales.

sevenwebheads also made a video before the reveal about a rumor that "spiderman will meet thor in 2018)... and in 2018 we get part 1 of av3. but yeah it hasn't been confirmed (are we sure of that) but what exactly is the point of adding spiderman into the mcu (besides the fact that he is now part of the bigger picture) if he's not going to be in the major crossover franchise? the reboot will be one of the movies of phase 3, before the avengers film, it makes absolutely 0 sense for them not to put him in there. the deal also specifies "sony makes no money from the marvel movies spidey appears" well, what are these said "marvel movies spidey appears" if not starting with av3?

Not according to the parameters of the deal as outlined.

Sony is 'leasing' USAGE of the character to Marvel Studios, but they get to determine practically everything about the character other than the storyline specifics of how MS uses him.

Marvel Studios is the one with far less control of the situation, at least under the deal as outlined.

dude, I really don't get what you are trying to say here. from what I can tell you're just arguing with everyone but what exactly are YOU trying to say?

what is your stance on the reboot and spidey's presence in the mcu? what is it that you have such issue with that other people are saying, that you vehemently reject anything we're saying?

 

[Spider2099]

sevenwebheads also made a video before the reveal about a rumor that "spiderman will meet thor in 2018)... and in 2018 we get part 1 of av3. but yeah it hasn't been confirmed (are we sure of that) but what exactly is the point of adding spiderman into the mcu (besides the fact that he is now part of the bigger picture) if he's not going to be in the major crossover franchise? the reboot will be one of the movies of phase 3, before the avengers film, it makes absolutely 0 sense for them not to put him in there. the deal also specifies "sony makes no money from the marvel movies spidey appears" well, what are these said "marvel movies spidey appears" if not starting with av3?

Oh yeah, I remember that video. I believe it was referencing some of Dave Gonzales' tweets about Spider-Man meeting Thor, etc etc. It has not been technically confirmed but it was discussed in the leaked e-mails and in the report on LR. So we can assume that its a very big possibility. If SM does not appear in Avengers 3 then the whole thing was sort of a waste.

 

[DigificWriter]

The reason I keep repeating the things that I am is because it bugs me that people keep misinterpreting the deal's actual parameters and acting like Marvel Studios and Kevin Feige are the ones with the controlling interest in this deal when it's pretty crystal clear that they're not. As someone who's very much enjoyed all of the films that Sony has produced thus far, it bothers me that so many people are trying to downplay the way in which they solved a perceived problem without actually having to give up all that much in exchange.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Oh yeah, I remember that video. I believe it was referencing some of Dave Gonzales' tweets about Spider-Man meeting Thor, etc etc. It has not been technically confirmed but it was discussed in the leaked e-mails and in the report on LR. So we can assume that its a very big possibility. If SM does not appear in Avengers 3 then the whole thing was sort of a waste.

true, I'm just saying though the way marvel has been running their phases, having movies build up to the ultimate crossover films - spiderman will be a part of that process for the 3rd film, so it will not make sense for him not to be in av3. again, "sony makes nothing off of marvel movies that feature spidey" so what are these said marvel movies that will feature spidey (starting from phase 3, because that's where spiderman will have his reboot)?

spidey's probably making his debut in cap3, but it'll probably be a cameo/extremely short role.