BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion - - - - Part 248

[Sleiek]

Anyone else has a problem with SHH, it is very slow. I can access other websites fast. Heavy traffic today?

 

[souperman]

yes...very slow...

 

[Guts]

I thought something was wrong with my internet connection.

 

[Pickleweasel]

Anyone else has a problem with SHH, it is very slow. I can access other websites fast. Heavy traffic today?

Slow and I starting to get cranky with these god damn pop ups

 

[Broseph44]

Anyone else has a problem with SHH, it is very slow. I can access other websites fast. Heavy traffic today?

Yeah not just you, very slow today.

 

[BH/HHH]

I thought something was wrong with my internet connection.

Same Ive reset my network settings and my internet a few times haha

 

[souperman]

Slow and I starting to get cranky with these god damn pop ups

I know...Right!!

Happens mostly on my iPad..... Junk

 

[DerekLake]

The Atlantic nails it on Superman. IMO.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/02/the-trouble-with-superman/435408/

I don't think so. It only gets it partly right. Yes, the character could benefit from a revived populist, underdog approach. But the key criticisms of Superman -- he's boring, he's overpowered -- can't be solved in such a simplistic way. I certainly don't think the issue is skewing away from kids and toward adults. The best stories can appeal to both.

The problem isn't that DC has tried to modernize him, it's that they don't know how to modernize him. And I don't think Superman himself has been the problem. Both Captain America and Peter Parker in a sense represent the two halves of Superman. The problem is really the supporting and opposing characters surrounding him, as well as the stories that contain him. How do you modernize them? It's not so simple given the iconography and expectations surrounding him.

I have some suggestions that I think could help:

Regarding Superman:

1) Streamline and simplify his powers
2) Replace the weak, wallfly Clark with a passionate, social justice-minded, relatable journalist who goes out of his way to help the common man.
3) Make "Superman" grand, larger-than-life, with an air of regality, without sacrificing his personal approach.
4) Give the character doubts, obstacles and even controversies as Superman, but desires, problems and challenges as Clark Kent.

Regarding his supporting characters:

1) Retain the Daily Planet's high journalism culture
2) Use the Daily Planet characters and drama to support the stories of Clark and Superman
3) Give Superman new, interesting and compelling villains, or drastically retool old ones.
4) Hold off on the identical characters (e.g., Superboy and Bizarro).

Regarding his stories:

1) Greatly complicate the situations Superman has to deal with, so that his choices have greater weight. This includes opponents whom Superman must out-think as well as overpower.
2) Give Clark Kent a whole lot more to do, especially as it concerns social justice. I'm not necessarily talking the hot-button issues (income inequality, police brutality, etc.), but stories that involve helping the downtrodden.
3) Weave together personal, local, global and extraterrestrial stories in a way that enhances, not detracts from, Superman.

I think these changes may help Superman to be more interesting, while perhaps keeping the heart of the character.

 

[Boom]

But how else are we supposed to find out about the new Fire Emblem game?

 

[BH/HHH]

That article is just stupid, this Superman is one film in. A film which was basically a prequel to him becoming Superman.

The article slags off Smallville aswell saying it kept him out of the suit for a decade yet they ignore the fact the show was very popular. They also ignore the fact that Man of Steel as a box office succes.

All it is is an article from someone whose not happy with what's been done with Superman in recent years.

It also makes me laugh how it goes on about BvS shifting focuse to Batman, yet they ignore the Dark Knight did the same with the Joker. Dark Knight Rises did with Bane/Catwoman. It's what sequels do.

Just abrupt woeful article that I stopped reading because the guy whose written it doesn't even understand what he's writing about.

 

[thebatfan5194]

I think they're taking the "social justice" minded Clark Kent in BvS. I think they'll use him being against the Bat-branding and excessive violence against criminals as a statement against instances of police brutality.

 

[Boom]

I like the sort of aloofness Morrison's Superman has. Like how he brings Lois an exotic flower from some far-away planet just cause.

 

[Sleiek]

Yeah, I would rather see the development of Superman's character before he becomes the man we all know him to be. That is more intriguing.

 

[Tobias]

I don't think so. It only gets it partly right. Yes, the character could benefit from a revived populist, underdog approach. But the key criticisms of Superman -- he's boring, he's overpowered -- can't be solved in such a simplistic way. I certainly don't think the issue is skewing away from kids and toward adults. The best stories can appeal to both.

The problem isn't that DC has tried to modernize him, it's that they don't know how to modernize him. And I don't think Superman himself has been the problem. Both Captain America and Peter Parker in a sense represent the two halves of Superman. The problem is really the supporting and opposing characters surrounding him, as well as the stories that contain him. How do you modernize them? It's not so simple given the iconography and expectations surrounding him.

I have some suggestions that I think could help:

Regarding Superman:

1) Streamline and simplify his powers
2) Replace the weak, wallfly Clark with a passionate, social justice-minded, relatable journalist who goes out of his way to help the common man.
3) Make "Superman" grand, larger-than-life, with an air of regality, without sacrificing his personal approach.
4) Give the character doubts, obstacles and even controversies as Superman, but desires, problems and challenges as Clark Kent.

Regarding his supporting characters:

1) Retain the Daily Planet's high journalism culture
2) Use the Daily Planet characters and drama to support the stories of Clark and Superman
3) Give Superman new, interesting and compelling villains, or drastically retool old ones.
4) Hold off on the identical characters (e.g., Superboy and Bizarro).

Regarding his stories:

1) Greatly complicate the situations Superman has to deal with, so that his choices have greater weight. This includes opponents whom Superman must out-think as well as overpower.
2) Give Clark Kent a whole lot more to do, especially as it concerns social justice. I'm not necessarily talking the hot-button issues (income inequality, police brutality, etc.), but stories that involve helping the downtrodden.
3) Weave together personal, local, global and extraterrestrial stories in a way that enhances, not detracts from, Superman.

I think these changes may help Superman to be more interesting, while perhaps keeping the heart of the character.

Great insight!!

You , my man, should be hired on by WB/DC like in a New York minute.

 

[BH/HHH]

Yeah, I would rather see the development of Superman's character before he becomes the man we all know him to be. That is more intriguing.

Definitely, we're getting the same with Lex in BvS too.

 

[thebatfan5194]

Grant Morrison writes a great Superman. I can't remember the exact quote, but he said he writes Superman as having a normal guy's life but on a Superhero/god like scale. Like when he walks his dog he does it in space or something. People who say Superman isn't relatable don't get the character in my opinion. Just because he has a heightened invulnerability doesn't make him any harder to connect to on an emotional level.

 

[The Guard]

I don't think so. It only gets it partly right. Yes, the character could benefit from a revived populist, underdog approach. But the key criticisms of Superman -- he's boring, he's overpowered -- can't be solved in such a simplistic way. I certainly don't think the issue is skewing away from kids and toward adults. The best stories can appeal to both.

The problem isn't that DC has tried to modernize him, it's that they don't know how to modernize him. And I don't think Superman himself has been the problem. Both Captain America and Peter Parker in a sense represent the two halves of Superman. The problem is really the supporting and opposing characters surrounding him, as well as the stories that contain him. How do you modernize them? It's not so simple given the iconography and expectations surrounding him.

I have some suggestions that I think could help:

Regarding Superman:

1) Streamline and simplify his powers
2) Replace the weak, wallfly Clark with a passionate, social justice-minded, relatable journalist who goes out of his way to help the common man.
3) Make "Superman" grand, larger-than-life, with an air of regality, without sacrificing his personal approach.
4) Give the character doubts, obstacles and even controversies as Superman, but desires, problems and challenges as Clark Kent.

Regarding his supporting characters:

1) Retain the Daily Planet's high journalism culture
2) Use the Daily Planet characters and drama to support the stories of Clark and Superman
3) Give Superman new, interesting and compelling villains, or drastically retool old ones.
4) Hold off on the identical characters (e.g., Superboy and Bizarro).

Regarding his stories:

1) Greatly complicate the situations Superman has to deal with, so that his choices have greater weight. This includes opponents whom Superman must out-think as well as overpower.
2) Give Clark Kent a whole lot more to do, especially as it concerns social justice. I'm not necessarily talking the hot-button issues (income inequality, police brutality, etc.), but stories that involve helping the downtrodden.
3) Weave together personal, local, global and extraterrestrial stories in a way that enhances, not detracts from, Superman.

I think these changes may help Superman to be more interesting, while perhaps keeping the heart of the character.

Every single one of these things has been done, to fantastic effect, in modern Superman stories.

People who level complaints against the character Superman about him being overpowered, not-relatable etc, either aren't reading, or aren't absorbing and understanding, modern Superman stories. Writers tumbled to these things more than a decade ago.

The only thing that will change the conception of Superman being "boring" is if our culture suddenly changes to find badass, conflict-ridden people boring and straightforward, morally grounded people badass. Not likely to happen.

 

[Tobias]

That article is just stupid, this Superman is one film in. A film which was basically a prequel to him becoming Superman.

The article slags off Smallville aswell saying it kept him out of the suit for a decade yet they ignore the fact the show was very popular. They also ignore the fact that Man of Steel as a box office succes.

All it is is an article from someone whose not happy with what's been done with Superman in recent years.

It also makes me laugh how it goes on about BvS shifting focuse to Batman, yet they ignore the Dark Knight did the same with the Joker. Dark Knight Rises did with Bane/Catwoman. It's what sequels do.

Just abrupt woeful article that I stopped reading because the guy whose written it doesn't even understand what he's writing about.

No, I actually think too many of us and WB/DC don't understand.

The article is not saying going back to the Silver Age, he disses it somewhat, - no its saying go back to the roots and grown on that.

 

[Marz69]

That article is just stupid, this Superman is one film in. A film which was basically a prequel to him becoming Superman.

The article slags off Smallville aswell saying it kept him out of the suit for a decade yet they ignore the fact the show was very popular. They also ignore the fact that Man of Steel as a box office succes.

All it is is an article from someone whose not happy with what's been done with Superman in recent years.

It also makes me laugh how it goes on about BvS shifting focuse to Batman, yet they ignore the Dark Knight did the same with the Joker. Dark Knight Rises did with Bane/Catwoman. It's what sequels do.

Just abrupt woeful article that I stopped reading because the guy whose written it doesn't even understand what he's writing about.

I disagreed with the article. It focused too much on Superman not smiling, also mentioned him not being happy in the BvS trailers. This seems to be his main thing for him.. tone.

I love this superman and clark also looks interesting with what he asks Bruce at the party. I like this better than the bumbling clark.

The trailers put a lot of focus on superman. I don't think it's been batman based. They even had superman trash Batman's vehicle like a boss t:

 

[BH/HHH]

No, I actually think too many of us and WB/DC don't understand.

The article is not saying going back to the Silver Age, he disses it somewhat, - no its saying go back to the roots and grown on that.

So you know better than everyone else do you? Come on. Your paranoia is ridiculous mate.

Don't try to tell me I don't understand Superman.

I disagreed with the article. It focused too much on Superman not smiling, also mentioned him not being happy in the BvS trailers. This seems to be his main thing for him.. tone.

I love this superman and clark also looks interesting with what he asks Bruce at the party. I like this better than the bumbling clark.

The trailers put a lot of focus on superman. I don't think it's been batman based. They even had superman trash Batman's vehicle like a boss t:

I don't think it's shifted so much to Batman either tbh, there has been a big push of him been in the film but it's always that way when a film has a new antagonist/villain. Even the comic con trailer, everything was pretty much about Superman. Even the other stuff it's been about Batman's problems with Superman.

 

[Marz69]

Definitely, we're getting the same with Lex in BvS too.

This is like a Lex origin story as well. This story looks like it has the potential for so much character development

 

[Guts]

Grant Morrison writes a great Superman. I can't remember the exact quote, but he said he writes Superman as having a normal guy's life but on a Superhero/god like scale. Like when he walks his dog he does it in space or something. People who say Superman isn't relatable don't get the character in my opinion. Just because he has a heightened invulnerability doesn't make him any harder to connect to on an emotional level.

This is what he said.

In the end, I saw Superman not as a superhero or even a science fiction character, but as a story of Everyman. We’re all Superman in our own adventures. We have our own Fortresses of Solitude we retreat to, with our own special collections of valued stuff, our own super–pets, our own “Bottle Cities” that we feel guilty for neglecting. We have our own peers and rivals and bizarre emotional or moral tangles to deal with.

I felt I’d really grasped the concept when I saw him as Everyman, or rather as the dreamself of Everyman. That “S” is the radiant emblem of divinity we reveal when we rip off our stuffy shirts, our social masks, our neuroses, our constructed selves, and become who we truly are. Batman is obviously much cooler, but that’s because he’s a very energetic and adolescent fantasy character: a handsome billionaire playboy in black leather with a butler at this beck and call, better cars and gadgetry than James Bond, a horde of fetish femme fatales baying around his heels and no boss. That guy’s Superman day and night.

Superman grew up baling hay on a farm. He goes to work, for a boss, in an office. He pines after a hard–working gal. Only when he tears off his shirt does that heroic, ideal inner self come to life. That’s actually a much more adult fantasy than the one Batman’s peddling but it also makes Superman a little harder to sell. He’s much more of a working class superhero.

American writers often say they find it difficult to write Superman. They say he’s too powerful; you can’t give him problems. But Superman is a metaphor. For me, Superman has the same problems we do, but on a Paul Bunyan scale. If Superman walks the dog, he walks it around the asteroid belt because it can fly in space. When Superman’s relatives visit, they come from the 31st century and bring some hellish monster conqueror from the future. But it’s still a story about your relatives visiting.

 

[Beatnation]

They're not. I've read them.

It drops to 83% now...hmmm weird.

 

[BH/HHH]

This is like a Lex origin story as well. This story looks like it has the potential for so much character development

Definitely I can't wait to see him in the film.

What excites me is what's in future for this character too, I hope he's in MOS2.

 

[Greens]

It drops to 83% now...hmmm weird.

I don't think it's weird at all. There are rare exceptions (Mad Max: Fury Road) but RT and IMDb scores always go down after the initial excitement.