BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

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Let the hate flow through you, dark b. Yessss... gooooooood...
what didnt i make clear? 3 batman movies. and now they are forcing batman inside a superman movie to make 1 billion in 2015.
i am a batman fan. but i am also a superman fan. where is my superman sequel? :woot::oldrazz:
 
what didnt i make clear? 3 batman movies. and now they are forcing batman inside a superman movie to make 1 billion in 2015.
i am a batman fan. but i am also a superman fan. where is my superman sequel? :woot::oldrazz:

Yeah, if the rumors are true then with a Flash movie in 2016 and a JL in 2017, I don't see MOS2 until at least 2018. It sucks but honestly to me, this is the chance of a lifetime and I'd rather see this than MOS2. Maybe it's because I'm dying to see a different interpretation of Batman.
 
Well judging from these forums even if the title ISN'T Batman vs. Superman...


it's certainly go to be that way for fanboys watching the movie.

"Oh my god, Superman has had 33.465 minutes of screen time and Batman has had 33.466. SCREW YOU SNYDER AND GOYER!"'

Also, I don't think there was a plan A or plan B. I think they decided to go Batman/Superman after MOS was pretty successful. They got their DC Universe started on the right note so they decided to add Batman to the next one. I don't think anything changed.
 
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I agree. I don't think there was a plan that was set in stone after MOS. They just decided to go with WF.
 
I hope somewhere in there, Clark gets some screentime too.

There is going be to disappointment all around because there are way too many different views that people have in their head for this movie.

The movie is going to be 2.5 hours tops, someone is going to get shafted, probably the villain.

Me, I'm just really excited Batman and Superman are going to be together...so as long as that relationship is done well...that will go a long way for me.

I can live with Clark/Lois, Lex or other supporting characters not getting as much story time, but I can see how others will be upset at that.
 
^ What an optimist. I figure if WF isn't officially MOS2, they should have an official sequel after WF. Being a bit of a DA, the sequel would earn nearly (or reach) a billion dollars.
 
Well, if it doesnt reach a billion dollars, the fan commmunity will call it a flop.
 
There is going be to disappointment all around because there are way too many different views that people have in their head for this movie.

The movie is going to be 2.5 hours tops, someone is going to get shafted, probably the villain.

Me, I'm just really excited Batman and Superman are going to be together...so as long as that relationship is done well...that will go a long way for me.

I can live with Clark/Lois, Lex or other supporting characters not getting as much story time, but I can see how others will be upset at that.

Can't wait to hear some of the gripes this time around. Not only will they have pushy superman fans to deal with, they will have the nolan bat fans to make happy too.

I can't wait.
 
what didnt i make clear? 3 batman movies. and now they are forcing batman inside a superman movie to make 1 billion in 2015.
i am a batman fan. but i am also a superman fan. where is my superman sequel? :woot::oldrazz:

Relax:yay:
If you don't get it in this film, you will get it in the next one. Like I always say, Avengers didn't stop us from getting Thor2 or Cap2.
And let's not begin to discuss what Avengers has meant for all things ironman(within he film itself).
 
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Can't wait to hear some of the gripes this time around. Not only will they have pushy superman fans to deal with, they will have the nolan bat fans to make happy too.

I can't wait.

Nolan Batfons can eat it. There's one think withing liking his films and his take, but as soon as they act like he rose above the source material and that any other take is illegitimate (including comics), they lost their legs to stand on.

I'm fine for the Nolan Batfans who aren't inflammatory, though.
 
I think we definitely have to see Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne. Not just Superman and Batman. To me that's like Spider-Man with no Peter. The Avengers didn't have that problem because those heroes aren't secretive about who they are, except maybe Bruce Banner. So there was no need to see them in their "alter egos".
 
I'm open to all interpretations of the Batman character. The Nolan films are my favorite of all-time but I'm really excited to see Snyder's take and to see Batman in Superman's world now.

This is way too reasonable I know.
 
Yeah, if the rumors are true then with a Flash movie in 2016 and a JL in 2017, I don't see MOS2 until at least 2018. It sucks but honestly to me, this is the chance of a lifetime and I'd rather see this than MOS2. Maybe it's because I'm dying to see a different interpretation of Batman.
or maybe you are an undercover batman fan in the superman forums. who are you and who are you working for ?

:brucebat::hoboj:
 
it makes a big difference. its official that hollywood studios now expect Avengers and IM3 money from superhero movies. MOS of course didnt make enough money to be a monster hit. but it still made a lot of money and superman is now back as a badass guy who will punch through buildings.

adding batman to superman means that WB needs more money and they still think that batman is the only guy who can save their profit .

a lot of fans will not understand this because they are secretly batman fans visiting the superman forums. there are a lot of batman fans who also like superman . they are now in the superman forums happy that they will get a new batman movie. we had a f... trilogy. a Nolan trilogy and Superman fans will not get a sequel to MOS with only superman. they will now have to be forced to watch batman.

it makes a big difference

I agree mate. MONEY MONEY MONEY is a big thing about this.

I absolutely think WB expected a billion from MOS. **I** expected it. People from many websites expected it. Steve Frosty from Collider told the cast and crew on their set visit that it would be make a billion and posted it on his website. The traffic MOS always generated was insane. The promotion for it was blistering. The merchandise was omni-present, the tie-ins were worth 170 million dollars, the price tag was 225 Million dollars in only production costs.

Oh WB expected 1 billion and that they missed it by almost half and a second tier Marvel hero's fourth outing made twice as much money must have definitely struck them.

They must have compared, sheesh the last 2 Batman films without even 3D made much much much more.

They want their billion and they want it desperately, given how Marvel has shown the true money making potential of superhero movies.

So I think that played into their decision to have Batman sooner that expected.
 
look at just how long WB had JLA slated for 2015. That was always their year for a crossover
They might have slated it, but did they do anything else. Did the hire a writer, did they comission a script, did they hire a consultant, did they look at actors and directors. No they just had the intention of making a film and a date. That doesn't cut it.

Look at how carefully Marvel planned its entire strategy and then launched it in 2008 with Iron man and culminating in 2012 with Avengers. Phase one was all carefully mapped out. Phase 2 too. Phase 3 too.

But if you look at WB, there is a degree of randomness to their decisions. I see no design or scheme. I see people who are desperate to make a buck trying whatever might work without vision or ideas.
 
I agree mate. MONEY MONEY MONEY is a big thing about this.

I absolutely think WB expected a billion from MOS. **I** expected it. People from many websites expected it. Steve Frosty from Collider told the cast and crew on their set visit that it would be make a billion and posted it on his website. The traffic MOS always generated was insane. The promotion for it was blistering. The merchandise was omni-present, the tie-ins were worth 170 million dollars, the price tag was 225 Million dollars in only production costs.

Oh WB expected 1 billion and that they missed it by almost half and a second tier Marvel hero's fourth outing made twice as much money must have definitely struck them.

They must have compared, sheesh the last 2 Batman films without even 3D made much much much more.

They want their billion and they want it desperately, given how Marvel has shown the true money making potential of superhero movies.

So I think that played into their decision to have Batman sooner that expected.

You do understand that Batman is WB's biggest character his Reboot film made far less than MOS.
Moreover Spiderman is a character just as big as Superman and MoS is out grossing ASM as well?

I'm curious why WB expected 1 billion form this superman reboot to be happy but not the same from Batman begins or from Spiderman for Sony.
I mean for gods sake the last superman film made far less than this, why would it be fair to assume this superman film was going to make a billion?

Why?
 
Because economics change in 8 years, that you yourself also very obviously know. Within the last 12 months, 3, THREE, superhero films have crossed a billion.

Surely its thunderstruck entire Hollywood, which is a business afterall, at the financial gold mine these films are.

And also the investment in MOS was much higher than is normally for first films. Just look at this - the first film of a solo film series with no stars cost more than the group film of Marvel made after 4 solo films and with an all star cast.

Looking at the sheer investment, WB would be within the rights to expect more. I think everybody did. 600 something worldwide isn't bad but then you think that Avengers made that in the US and you start thinking wow.
 
They might have slated it, but did they do anything else. Did the hire a writer, did they comission a script, did they hire a consultant, did they look at actors and directors. No they just had the intention of making a film and a date. That doesn't cut it.

Assuming this is the grounds for your argument then. Yes, they did all of the above with the exception of maybe the actors. They even ordered a rewrite, the project ended up in the can. I may be wrong seeing as I had a passing interest in the project.
Satisfied?
(probably not)

Look at how carefully Marvel planned its entire strategy and then launched it in 2008 with Iron man and culminating in 2012 with Avengers. Phase one was all carefully mapped out. Phase 2 too. Phase 3 too.
Please tell me how coming out coming out of Ironman 1, Marvel had any more planned out than WB seemingly does right now? They made a hit film and they made an announcement to move forward. You are talking about 4 years of events vs 1 and a half months. We don't know what WB has planned! Four years later and we can compare notes.

One look at the film that was IM2 and Favreau's immediate departure should tell you all you need to know about about how clearly they had it all planed out. WB made a solid film with no universe shoehorning, let them make their next film and then start with the proclamations.

I mean did we really need another film with amanda whaler to put minds at rest? This don't need to so heavy handed.

But if you look at WB, there is a degree of randomness to their decisions. I see no design or scheme. I see people who are desperate to make a buck trying whatever might work without vision or ideas.
That was before. And that was when WB wasn't in the business of serialization but rather singular properties such as watchmen and the last batman trilogy.
For better or worse they are giving this assembly line approach a fair shake now.
 
You do understand that Batman is WB's biggest character his Reboot film made far less than MOS.
Moreover Spiderman is a character just as big as Superman and MoS is out grossing ASM as well?

I'm curious why WB expected 1 billion form this superman reboot to be happy but not the same from Batman begins or from Spiderman for Sony.
I mean for gods sake the last superman film made far less than this, why would it be fair to assume this superman film was going to make a billion?

Why?
Batman Begins? 2005 was a drastically different world. it was a different time for movies. compating BB reboot to movies from 2010-2013? plus WB didnt promote Bb as heavy as they could. they decided the movie to speak for itself. plus people were hurt from Batman & Robin. the DVD's after are proof that people didnt give it a chance. :yay:

i can not belive that you just tryed to compare a batman 2D movie from 2005 to a 3D Superman movie from 2013. B&R did a bigger damage than Superman Returns. :woot:
 
Because economics change in 8 years, that you yourself also very obviously know. Within the last 12 months, 3, THREE, superhero films have crossed a billion.

Surely its thunderstruck entire Hollywood, which is a business afterall, at the financial gold mine these films are.
Which or how many of these 3 films were reboots/start ups to very unsuccessful crap? Within the last 12 month that is? Studios expect that sort of success from tested properties/investments no matter what the new thing is.

And also the investment in MOS was much higher than is normally for first films. Just look at this - the first film of a solo film series with no stars cost more than the group film of Marvel made after 4 solo films and with an all star cast.
It's good business on marvels part. They have been criticized and celebrated for this very thing. How do they get around having an all star cast? Google any of the various articles about the actor salary controversy at marvel over the past year. Moreover, I haven't had a chance to look at RDJ's contract but I doubt he get's paid 50mill up front.
It's a different business model, I'm sure like most of WB's projects, JLA will have an inflated budget.

Looking at the sheer investment, WB would be within the rights to expect more. I think everybody did. 600 something worldwide isn't bad but then you think that Avengers made that in the US and you start thinking wow.

This last post suggests to me that you have a mind for circumstances, if you apply them to the superman property and the Ironman one as of this year I'm sure you can rationalize why the studios no doubt had different expectations for these two films this summer(go see IM two's numbers for a more accurate comparison).

Green Lantern costs more than MOS as well and I'm pretty sure WB didn't expect that film to hit a billion. They expected a property starting success, it's good business. ASM costing more than MOS and making the same and still being considered a resounding studio satisfying relaunch speaks volumes on the matter and the state of things in this economy.

Moreover the cost to realize the scale in this superman movie was no doubt the same as it was to realize the scale of that avengers film. Expectations aside, studios also tend to assign concept realizing budgets(between MoS and Returns we have an idea of how much it costs to produce a high concept superman film).
For your logic to be sound that would suggest WB should have spent on MOS half the budget Marvel spent on Avengers (42% to be precise), We are talking revenue here not profit. That would mean for the WB to come out successful in their investment we are talking about greeen lighting a superman reboot with the estimated budget of around 94.2 million.
:huh:
My math sucks btw.
 
Batman Begins? 2005 was a drastically different world. it was a different time for movies. compating BB reboot to movies from 2010-2013? plus WB didnt promote Bb as heavy as they could. they decided the movie to speak for itself. plus people were hurt from Batman & Robin. the DVD's after are proof that people didnt give it a chance. :yay:

i can not belive that you just tryed to compare a batman 2D movie from 2005 to a 3D Superman movie from 2013. B&R did a bigger damage than Superman Returns. :woot:

I'm just looking at the circumstances. People keep tossing supermans name around as if that means all the difference ignoring the circumstance of the property. Batman is and maybe has always been the most hollywood friendly hero and all that meant little given his circumstance. I'm sure the jump from BB profits and TDK profits isn't all about the changing economy. And it's not about about a leap in quality either, it's largely in part due to the circumstance and viability of the property after finding success again.

If I said MoS made BB money and that's fine, sure, silly. However MOS is making a great deal more than BB. 2D or 3D or whatever you want. Just seems like it's enough for the studio.

Moreover, we can talk about the 90's bat films all we want but let's not act like Superman wasn't coming off of a trepid situation himself. I say this because Spiderman(raimi) wasn't. Another circumstance painfully ignored.

My bad for bringing up that moderately successful batman start up of a decade ago.
Here's an idea before we delve too deep into the paradigm shift in the economy, how's about we look really closely at all the super hero start ups of the past say...five years.
The most successful and the not so successful. How much do these films make these days? Seems like a more conducive discussion than comparing this venture to Avengers, it's subsequent sequel(in IM3) or the TDK send off.

I don't know about you but I saw plenty of BB spots and marketing.
 
I think they will have to skip any origins. People dnt need to see why Lex is the way he is, just like they didnt see the jokers in tdk.
Batman doesnt need explained either. Its gonna be pushed for time the way it is.
 
That said there is some merit to this method, as Nolan refused to visually adapt images and scenes from the comics as well. Instead opting to channel the material through his own unsullied perspective. I think it definitely worked for that take on Batman.
Not really the same thing, though, as they clearly drew from specific Batman comics and just Nolan'ed 'em up. Nolan actually mentioned certain ones as inspiration (Year One, The Long Halloween) for BB, and they also gave Christian a few graphic novels to read up on to get a better handle of who the character is. Just because they didn't go for a comic book aesthetic doesn't mean they were shunning them, either.
 
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