BvS All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

[smallville fan]

I'm curious, does anyone here think a solo superman film of any sort has a shot at competing with an Avengers sequel and all it's novelty? I ask this as a business question because WB is a business and they're decisions however soulless have to be driven by that simple principle. I ask this in relation to anyone who suggests WB wasn't planning a superhero crossover in the year of the second Avengers movie. WB is stupid, but they're not that stupid. All things being equal(hard to suggest on a fan forum). ASM and it's hotly anticipated sequel are what we are considering studio pleasing reboot success on a very high level. ASM2 is going to be a massive success, no doubt the biggest film of 2014's summer. Round of applause.
Does anyone think ASM2 is going to challenge any of Avenger's money? That's what I postulate to anyone that thinks WB was planning on releasing a successful traditional sequel to MOS in the summer of Avengers2.
Just like this summer they would lose out to that shared universe novelty crap in spite of quality. It happened this year, it happened last year, it even happened in the year before that.

Also. anyone that suggests this is a last minute response to MoS' massively successful performance needs to go back and look at just how long WB had JLA slated for 2015. That was always their year for a crossover, and rightly so.

Batman in Superman 2, this was plan A.
imo.
The Wayne Tech Satellite just got a whole lot more interesting.

Yes exactly. That's what I've been trying to get across here in this thread for a while but no one even bothers to consider it. Thank you. WB isn't stupid enough to gamble on a single Superman solo film in the post-Avengers era no matter how good it would've been. It would've worked 4-5 years ago, but now Avengers changed the game and general audiences want shared universes and crossovers now.

I said it before and I'll say it again, given how things went, if they really had reduced trust in Superman and decided to do go back to the Bat, a more plausible plan B would've went for the path a solo-reboot of Batman who lives in the MOS-world(so Easter Eggs like the Zod video etc would happen to make it clear Batman lives in a shared universe) and maybe some other heroes first in order to gain momentum then do Superman again before JL in which this time it would do better.

So Batman in MOS 2=Plan A no matter how bad things would have gotten with MOS.

 

[Mysteryman]

Relax
If you don't get it in this film, you will get it in the next one. Like I always say, Avengers didn't stop us from getting Thor2 or Cap2.
And let's not begin to discuss what Avengers has meant for all things ironman(within he film itself).

Unless the sequel is called Superman/Batman :Trinity
They might use the next one to introduce Wonder Woman.
Plus ,it might be cheaper than a full blown JL film.

 

[Tempest]

Can't wait to hear some of the gripes this time around. Not only will they have pushy superman fans to deal with, they will have the nolan bat fans to make happy too.

I can't wait.

I'm waiting for the wails and gnashing of teeth on the choice of actor for Batman. Then wait until the costume is revealed. I should flee the fandom now, before it gets any crazier (although I am pleased to note that this fandom is not nearly as terrifying as the Supernatural one).

I'm open to all interpretations of the Batman character. The Nolan films are my favorite of all-time but I'm really excited to see Snyder's take and to see Batman in Superman's world now.

This is way too reasonable I know.

How dare you be reasonable at a time like this!

FWIW, I am really intrigued by how they're going to play Batman in this film. I don't mind the boys being antagonistic with each other at first, but I'd really like to see them settle into, if not exactly friends, having a friendly rivalry and partnership in the future. I don't want them to be arguing or at odds every single moment they're on-screen.

 

[Marvin]

No executive worth their salt is going to let this film end without a team up. Batman being batman it might not be the most loving partnership though.

....forget what I just said there at the end, nolan bats is a happy fool.

 

[Tempest]

No executive worth their salt is going to let this film end without a team up. Batman being batman it might not be the most loving partnership though.

....forget what I just said there at the end, nolan bats is a happy fool.

It's the greatest bromance opportunity of all time.

More than that though, I think that the one thing I really, really don't want to see (but I think that they'll do anyway) is a set-up of a love triangle between Lois, Bruce, and Clark.

Please movie gods, no.

 

[The Guard]

I seriously doubt WB expected MAN OF STEEL to make a billion dollars. I think it's quite the opposite. I think WB knew it had a hit on its hand, but my guess is that the reason we didn't see plans for a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie move forward prior to MAN OF STEEL is that WB really wasn't sure how people would react to another Superman movie.

BATMAN BEGINS didn't make a billion, IRON MAN didn't...it's just not that common for the first film in a franchise. MAN OF STEEL is doing what BATMAN BEGINS did, building an audience. A sequel will likely make more, and I'm sure WB recognizes this, as well as the added box office bonus of having the first ever pairing of Batman and Superman.

I don't think this is a question of them being disappointed. Rather, this should be viewed as a success and a sign of confidence. They're moving forward with the shared DC Universe with this next film, but they're not jumping straight to JUSTICE LEAGUE.

 

[Zorex]

I don't think this is a question of them being disappointed. Rather, this should be viewed as a success and a sign of confidence. They're moving forward with the shared DC Universe with this next film, but they're not jumping straight to JUSTICE LEAGUE.

That's an optimistic way of looking at things, and I like it. I myself have been thinking it was a reactionary move to disappointment at Man Of Steel's performance, but, truth be told, that's mostly because I don't have a lot of faith in them in their ability to get quality superhero movies off the ground and actually into the theatre. Part me begrudgingly admits that, considering how far behind Marvel they are in the genre, they needed something in the sequel that would turn (general public) heads than just a quality solo Superman film. I just hope the film's perspective remains that of Superman. I want it to be his character we follow and his eyes we experience things through, not Batman's.

 

[The Guard]

By any reasonable standard, it performed pretty well, I think.

 

[Tempest]

I seriously doubt WB expected MAN OF STEEL to make a billion dollars. I think it's quite the opposite. I think WB knew it had a hit on its hand, but my guess is that the reason we didn't see plans for a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie move forward prior to MAN OF STEEL is that WB really wasn't sure how people would react to another Superman movie.

BATMAN BEGINS didn't make a billion, IRON MAN didn't...it's just not that common for the first film in a franchise. MAN OF STEEL is doing what BATMAN BEGINS did, building an audience. A sequel will likely make more, and I'm sure WB recognizes this, as well as the added box office bonus of having the first ever pairing of Batman and Superman.

I don't think this is a question of them being disappointed. Rather, this should be viewed as a success and a sign of confidence. They're moving forward with the shared DC Universe with this next film, but they're not jumping straight to JUSTICE LEAGUE.

I tend to agree. I believe they've had several ideas floating around well before MOS ever was released. When MOS did well enough in theaters (but not overwhelmingly so), I think they felt the time was right to be aggressive with the DC universe. I probably would have done the same thing, if I were running the show.

If the numbers had been a little higher, we may have been leaning more towards MOS 2 by itself....

But I'm not so sure about that. With the Marvel universe doing so well, I really think WB wants to push forward with the JL film. It's hot right now for super hero flicks; in another ten years that might not be the case.

Truly, I think the real push came because of how long the Batman series took to play out. They aren't going to put another seven or so years into world building, and risk losing Henry as Superman because he gets too old/bored/injured to carry on.

Get a handle on Batman/Superman, maybe get a Trinity film in, and a Flash/Green Lantern film, then do JL, all in the next four years. If possible, I'm sure they'll look at doing a true MOS2, but I think that they will have various Superheroes in each other's films for the length of this particular verse.

 

[DorneyDave]

I seriously doubt WB expected MAN OF STEEL to make a billion dollars. I think it's quite the opposite. I think WB knew it had a hit on its hand, but my guess is that the reason we didn't see plans for a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie move forward prior to MAN OF STEEL is that WB really wasn't sure how people would react to another Superman movie.

BATMAN BEGINS didn't make a billion, IRON MAN didn't...it's just not that common for the first film in a franchise. MAN OF STEEL is doing what BATMAN BEGINS did, building an audience. A sequel will likely make more, and I'm sure WB recognizes this, as well as the added box office bonus of having the first ever pairing of Batman and Superman.

I don't think this is a question of them being disappointed. Rather, this should be viewed as a success and a sign of confidence. They're moving forward with the shared DC Universe with this next film, but they're not jumping straight to JUSTICE LEAGUE.

That's the way I've been looking at this since the CC announcement. I'm beyond excited!

Also, the movie will hinge on the "Team up" moment. It's what everyone will be waiting for, and if they build to it properly...it's going to be an awesome moment.

 

[Lencho01]

Didn't the film take a huge dive in its second week? I think that might have freaked them out a little.

 

[DorneyDave]

Didn't the film take a huge dive in its second week? I think that might have freaked them out a little.

It had some SERIOUS SERIOUS competition. Its' release date was horrible. Almost any film would have taken that drop I think.

 

[The Guard]

There seems to be this idea that WB is somehow failing if they don't do what Marvel did...but what's wrong with taking their shared universe one film at a time?

People praised Christopher Nolan and his team for such an approach with the Batman franchise, and yet they condemn Warner Brothers? Why, exactly?

Maybe they don't have an exact plan...who says they have to? Who says they can't come up with a strategy after the events of the MOS sequel, or even after JUSTICE LEAGUE becomes a reality?

 

[Tempest]

It had some SERIOUS SERIOUS competition. Its' release date was horrible. Almost any film would have taken that drop I think.

This summer has been pretty brutal on a lot of films. Too many big films coming out all at the same time.

 

[DorneyDave]

I think WB saw the solid box office for MOS and their eyes lit up. I'm just really happy they held off on a full on Justice League. Throwing just Batman into the mix is a really good way to do it . He's the perfect character, one who doesn't need an origin and much "hand holding" for the audience. It can be a MOS2 featuring Batman.

 

[Lencho01]

It had some SERIOUS SERIOUS competition. Its' release date was horrible. Almost any film would have taken that drop I think.

True, but I'd imagine someone at WB wasn't happy with it.

There seems to be this idea that WB is somehow failing if they don't do what Marvel did...but what's wrong with taking their shared universe one film at a time?

People praised Christopher Nolan and his team for such an approach with the Batman franchise, and yet they condemn Warner Brothers? Why, exactly?

Maybe they don't have an exact plan...who says they have to? Who says they can't come up with a strategy after the events of the MOS sequel, or even after JUSTICE LEAGUE becomes a reality?

Because fans see something that "works" for Marvel and wonder why WB didn't do something like that years ago when they were in a better position to do so compared to Marvel.

And probably investors, stockholders, etc. would feel more confident in knowing what the company will do to make them more money.

 

[The Guard]

And fans keep ignoring the fact that WB was never a studio created only to produce superhero films. And they ignore how long it took for Marvel's various solo movies themselves to move from the concept and script stage to actual production. This being in a studio that only has to consider making those kinds of films in the first place.

Marvel Studios, upon its inception, took a calculated, short term risk. It paid off in a big way, and now they're able to make more films. Because of the way the company is structured, all it is responsible to for its shareholders, etc, is producing superhero films.

WB can't necessarily afford to take the same type of risk given their structure. It's not a studio structured or designed to work the way Marvel Studios is. And creating another sub-studio for only making DC movies is going to pose the same problem. The financial risk still falls back to the parent company, and by extension, its shareholders.

 

[Marvin]

If MOS disappointed they would have just went with the batman solo reboot.
However what most people don't seem to grasp is that a nolan/bale free batman isn't as big a same draw right now as one with them.

Relaunching that badboy with superman just yields too many benefits to pass up.

I think this casting is going to be key. The right names and there's no telling how big this film could get. Throw in a killer stinger(perhaps the joker) and it's a sure win that summer.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

If MOS disappointed they would have just went with the batman solo reboot.
However what most people don't seem to grasp is that a nolan/bale free batman isn't as big a same draw right now as one with them.

Relaunching that badboy with superman just yields too many benefits to pass up.

I think this casting is going to be key. The right names and there's no telling how big this film could get. Throw in a killer stinger(perhaps the joker) and it's a sure win that summer.

I assume the stinger will be JL. Much in the same vein as Nick Fury's "Avengers Initiative"

 

[smallville fan]

This summer has been pretty brutal on a lot of films. Too many big films coming out all at the same time.

If you thought that this summer was brutal, wait till 2015.

 

[Tempest]

If you thought that this summer was brutal, wait till 2015.

I knooooow. It's either going to be glorious, or a wreck, like this summer.

 

[smallville fan]

This summer has been pretty brutal on a lot of films. Too many big films coming out all at the same time.

If you thought that this summer was brutal, wait till 2015.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

2015 in a nutshell.

 

[Tempest]

2015 in a nutshell.

Anyone want to start a betting pool on how many crappy movies they'll try to release in 2015?

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I am okay for there not being a "3rd" Superman film any time soon, and definitely not a final ending for Superman anytime soon. And yes, I would gladly trade TDKR for something more open-ended.