All Things Wonder Woman: An Open Discussion

[Loki882]

The thing about the JL is that all three of the Trinity have qualities that make them qualified for a leadership position. At the same time, they all have flaws that would not work so well for a leader. It's not really like The Avengers, where Captain America is the obvious/natural choice to lead. All three of them can make a good case for why they should be the leader. As for Azzarello, I think that he's emphasizing WW's ability to change people/make them better through her compassion and force of personality. She's already done it with Hera and even Stryfe to a degree. Now she's going to try to do it for the Amazons as a race. Stuff that I'd like the movie to take from his run:

1. WW being Zeus's father.
2. Some of the supporting cast. Zola, Lennox, Hera, etc.
3. The God mode and the bracelets being the key to suppressing it.
4. WW's personality/ideals.
5. The mythological aspects/portrayal of the gods.
6. etc.

They can just ignore the "rapist Amazons" part of it.

 

[haephestus]

Re: Wonder Woman as the "leader" of the Justice League

I think it would be great. And I think it would be a great fit for the character and a great role for Wonder Woman in any Justice League film.

Wonder Woman is already a leader, as princess of the Amazons and as their official delegate/ambassador to "man's world". Also, depending upon the canon, Wonder Woman has years (or more) experience leading Amazonian soldiers into battle. Finally, Wonder Woman's personality, especially her lack of ego and her compassion, mean that she can be an effective leader, particularly when dealing with internal team conflicts.

 

[BatmanVSuperman]

It's hard not to think of Superman as the leader of JL. His moral compass especially as it relates to having power amongst humans, is largely why. Batman simply interjects a darker side of arguments that Superman doesn't always consider, showing himself as an equal but on the other side of the coin so to speak. I don't see WW as high up on the hierarchy because of this.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Would you guys have a problem with WW being the founder of the JL?

 

[anonomissx]

She could certainly either found or be the catalyst for the Justice League.

Perhaps WW and Batman end up advising Superman, but he is the Leader/face of the Justice League, as he is the first hero the world saw on their TV and the golden boy, ie the one who has the most closely resembling an "all American" male hero. Sad to say, but that is what may count for gut checks with the average person depending on a miracle. Human nature, not what would be logical.

 

[AnneFan]

Would you guys have a problem with WW being the founder of the JL?

Nope. All hail WonderGal. t:

I think Superman will get that role, though.

 

[Steelsheen]

Would you guys have a problem with WW being the founder of the JL?

but she is JL history supports that claim 100%

Wonder Woman should lead the Justice League - source

"People always say it should be Batman. Guys, no. Do you know Batman? Yes, he’s good leading the Bat-clan, but they’re soldiers and he’s a general. They’ve been trained for years to obey him without question. Now try pulling that crap with Green Lantern or the Flash; outside the real-world consideration of “Batman’s comics sell good so people should listen to him,” any hero’s going to be thinking why am I listening to some jabroni dressed as a bat? What does he know about using a power ring, or the Speed Force? And you know Batman’s going to be a martinet. Can you see him inspiring someone, or employing empathy, encouraging people to come to them with their problems? No, it’d be his way or the highway. Yes, he’s a good tactician, but there’s a reason we had Patton lead the army and not the nation. Within a week of him being made leader, half your crew is going to leave because eff that guy for thinking he knows everything, I’m joining the JSA.

Superman, opposite problem. He’s always going to be your best friend; he can’t be ‘the boss’. He could never order someone to sacrifice themselves when he can do it himself. And he’d never make the hard call. Admirable, in some ways, but at the end of the day, sometimes you need someone to lay down on the wire and you can’t put literally your heaviest hitter on that. You need someone to be dispassionate.

Wonder Woman is the best of both worlds. She can listen to your concerns, sympathize with them, deal with them fairly and wisely. And, when need be, she can tell you to suck it up and follow orders cuz there’s a war on. After all, she’s been groomed for leadership on Paradise Island all her life; who knows how many times she’s led her fellow Amazons against escapees from Doom’s Doorway? Depending on the canon, she may have lifetimes of experience as a leader of men. So if she tells you that the only way to stop this invasion is for you personally to sacrifice yourself, you know she’s telling the truth and she wouldn’t be asking this of you if there were any other way. That’s who I’d want to follow into battle."

good article, with a few not-so-minor talking points

1.) Batman may be hardcore, but remember he isnt crazy or merciless. thats the difference between him and the Joker. Batman's refusal to use a gun bears a lot of meaning beyond the weapon that took his parents' life. So he's not as callous as this article makes him out to be, but what this article is trying to say-- Batman has always been more of the lone wolf. That is his nature. many points throughout JL's history showed that Bats is the guy who resisted joining the team until the last minute.

2.) Superman ALWAYS makes the tough call. ALWAYS. thats the noble part of his nature. its true that he would almost always take the hit instead of sacrificing someone else-- but he does so because he can take it and survive. he knows this. if the situation is risky on himself he will first consider other alternatives. cue the brainstorming from Batman and Wonder Woman (and the JL too of course hehe)

3.) WonderWoman is actually very similar to Superman, but with a gentler touch (for lack of a better term). if there was one point that would distinguish her from the Kryptonian is that WW has a way with getting the truth out of others-- saving a whole lot of trouble from Bats' MO of extracting information. Its not always her golden lasso to be credited for this-- its just the herness of her, for lack of a better term. Do they start singing like a canary because of her beauty? her kindness? her aura? her trustworthiness? the way she looks at you? the way she's quiet? the words she says? Who knows-- thats the "magic" of Wonder Woman. but of course she's no wallflower, or someone who just works from behind the scenes. if anything her powers of persuasion combined with her keen strategian intellect makes her kinda scary-- people will spill their darkest secrets to her and she knows how to use that to her/ her team's full advantage.

 

[Sharkboy]

No, Batman should lead it, as blunt as this sounds; without him being the defacto leader...he's pretty much another dude, the least powerful dude on the team, if you make it seem that he's the smartest and the guy who holds the strings, it makes him seem important. Wonder Woman doesn't need that, neither do the others with superpowers.

It's like how Captain America leads the Avengers, sure he has powers per se, but he's with a god, a near invincible monster and a genius with an insanely overpowered suit, you've got to give him the leader card.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This is how I've always seen it with the JLA, ideally.

Superman: The leader. The guy that inspires, sets the mission ("We are putting an end to this illegal war!" Or, "It's time to take the fight to Apokalips.") and the tone on the team. Even when he's not Chairman he's still "the leader." He has a personal touch with people that once they get to know him makes them want to go beyond what ever their individual concerns are and strive for the greater good. He's more than the "face" of the team, he's it's moral center, with the air of authority and power to back his convictions and decisions up with.

Batman: The strong number two guy. And he's okay with that, because unlike what many of his fans believe, Batman KNOWS he has limitations in the context of a team like the JLA. He's the "enforcer" type of guy in the command structure. A strategic and tactical genius, true, but on the League he has his focus on strategy, and his advice on what needs to be done to bring a situation to a close has a ton of weight. He's the "master of whispers" of the JLA, so any and all intelligence or covert operations are in his purview. He's one of two people that Superman accepts as having to go "lone wolf" from time to time.

Wonder Woman: Point blank, more so even than Batman, she is the ideal field commander for a team of super human warriors. When Superman thinks it's time to clear the table of bad guys he trusts in Diana's prowess and tactical acumen to get the job done. She's the one with the personal character and bearing to question and prod both Supes and Bats when she's seeing a correction in course is necessary. She commits to what ever the course has been decided to be 100%. If it's a soft hand that needs to be played, no one's hand is softer. If it's time to bring the hammer down those soft hands are the ones that are gonna be wrapped around the handle.

 

[Wise]

The thing about the JL is that all three of the Trinity have qualities that make them qualified for a leadership position. At the same time, they all have flaws that would not work so well for a leader. It's not really like The Avengers, where Captain America is the obvious/natural choice to lead. All three of them can make a good case for why they should be the leader. As for Azzarello, I think that he's emphasizing WW's ability to change people/make them better through her compassion and force of personality. She's already done it with Hera and even Stryfe to a degree. Now she's going to try to do it for the Amazons as a race. Stuff that I'd like the movie to take from his run:

1. WW being Zeus's father.
2. Some of the supporting cast. Zola, Lennox, Hera, etc.
3. The God mode and the bracelets being the key to suppressing it.
4. WW's personality/ideals.
5. The mythological aspects/portrayal of the gods.
6. etc.

They can just ignore the "rapist Amazons" part of it.

Murderers, not rapists.

I actually liked that aspect. It made them seem more mythological as the concept of ensnaring sailors sounds straight from an ancient Greek tome.

 

[Mad Love]

Murderers, not rapists.

I actually liked that aspect. It made them seem more mythological as the concept of ensnaring sailors sounds straight from an ancient Greek tome.

It also shows how far they're willing to go to survive. One would think a warrior nation that has a fierce reputation would have to get their hands dirty.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Eh, if you just make them "Ageless/Immortal" on Paradise Isle then all that goes away.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I actually liked that aspect. It made them seem more mythological as the concept of ensnaring sailors sounds straight from an ancient Greek tome.

^ It can also be used to explain a little diversity among the Amazons in the event WB chooses to display such. Some women will naturally exhibit physical characteristics from their paternal side.

 

[SofNascimento]

Eh, if you just make them "Ageless/Immortal" on Paradise Isle then all that goes away.

They are ageless in the new52 yet they assault sailors to mate with the mem after terminate their lifes.

Which is a much more interesting way to write the amazons. And it gives the chance for Diana to be the one to make them realize there are better ways, just like she is doing now.

 

[Mad Love]

Eh, if you just make them "Ageless/Immortal" on Paradise Isle then all that goes away.

I find it more far more compelling if they are more human. It makes you think what would it take for all female nation to actually exist on their own. And, it's that much more impressive and a display of equality that they can achieve it.

Having the gods give them special treatment by giving them immortality and making them exceptional from the start is quite... a privileged blessing.

 

[SofNascimento]

I find it more far more compelling if they are more human. It makes you think what would it take for all female nation to actually exist on their own. And, it's that much more impressive and a display of equality that they can achieve it.

Having the gods give them special treatment by giving them immortality and making them exceptional from the start is quite... a privileged blessing.

I disagree. This quest for relatability is a dangerous one to tread. The amazons should be immortal, and Wonder Woman certainly must.

Not that it matter must of the cacses, this issue is hardly handled properly.

 

[Mad Love]

I disagree. This quest for relatability is a dangerous one to tread. The amazons should be immortal, and Wonder Woman certainly must.

Not that it matter must of the cacses, this issue is hardly handled properly.

How is being relatable... dangerous?

Last sentence is incomprehensible.

 

[Sharkboy]

This is how I've always seen it with the JLA, ideally.

Superman: The leader. The guy that inspires, sets the mission ("We are putting an end to this illegal war!" Or, "It's time to take the fight to Apokalips.") and the tone on the team. Even when he's not Chairman he's still "the leader." He has a personal touch with people that once they get to know him makes them want to go beyond what ever their individual concerns are and strive for the greater good. He's more than the "face" of the team, he's it's moral center, with the air of authority and power to back his convictions and decisions up with.

Batman: The strong number two guy. And he's okay with that, because unlike what many of his fans believe, Batman KNOWS he has limitations in the context of a team like the JLA. He's the "enforcer" type of guy in the command structure. A strategic and tactical genius, true, but on the League he has his focus on strategy, and his advice on what needs to be done to bring a situation to a close has a ton of weight. He's the "master of whispers" of the JLA, so any and all intelligence or covert operations are in his purview. He's one of two people that Superman accepts as having to go "lone wolf" from time to time.

Wonder Woman: Point blank, more so even than Batman, she is the ideal field commander for a team of super human warriors. When Superman thinks it's time to clear the table of bad guys he trusts in Diana's prowess and tactical acumen to get the job done. She's the one with the personal character and bearing to question and prod both Supes and Bats when she's seeing a correction in course is necessary. She commits to what ever the course has been decided to be 100%. If it's a soft hand that needs to be played, no one's hand is softer. If it's time to bring the hammer down those soft hands are the ones that are gonna be wrapped around the handle.

I've never liked Superman as the leader, that's too much power unchecked by nothing but the hope that he's not going to snap. It becomes less (he's the right guy for the job and more they follow him because of his power) Supes always seemed like the guy that would allow at the very least the illusion that he takes orders, or that he can be controlled purely to put the rest of his allies at ease. Heck...we saw that in MoS. Also I don't think the leader in this case should be the source of inspiration or the guy who rallies people, they are all leaders in their own right they shouldn't have to rely on superman to know whats right, it's simple...in the JL's case, the leader needs to be the one who makes the plan, the general, the tactician. That's not Superman.

 

[SofNascimento]

How is being relatable... dangerous?

It a matter of where you will draw a line. So you say take away the amazons immortality to make them more human, so why not take Diana's as well? It will certainly make her more relatable. Maybe take her powers away too then, it will make her more human too. Make make the gods just as real as they were 3000 years ago, what very realistic! And to finish just make Themyscira a european city state too!

All of this have the same cause and consequence. And I say it's a wrong cause. Making something more human is not a good end in itself. Murderer amazons is not a great development because it makes the amazons more like what would you expect from an ancient society. It is great because it makes room for good stories, and we're seen one right now with Diana trying to reshape the amazons.

Last sentence is incomprehensible.

Yeah, it was hard even for me to understand. I guess what I tried to say is that the fact Diana is immortal is hardly ever developed properly. Which is a shame because fighting for other when you know you could live forever takes a lot of determination.

 

[PacificBoy]

Can't see Wondie founding the League in the DCU with how the universe is kicking off through MoS. The DCU trilogy of movies we have on hand seems to be Superman-driven and centric.

 

[Mad Love]

Can't see Wondie founding the League in the DCU with how the universe is kicking off through MoS. The DCU trilogy of movies we have on hand seems to be Superman-driven and centric.

What do you mean? She's already in a movie subtitled "Dawn of Justice" and Snyder refers to them as the trinity. Trinity of what?

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

I've always felt Superman, Batman, & Wonder Wonan lead the JL. They are the leaders. No one else.

 

[SofNascimento]

I've always felt Superman, Batman, & Wonder Wonan lead the JL. They are the leaders. No one else.

Just like Mark Antony, Octavian and Lepidus...

 

[X Knight]

I've always felt Superman, Batman, & Wonder Wonan lead the JL. They are the leaders. No one else.

yes. those 3 should be the founders. the pillars/foundation of the League.

 

[X Knight]

The thing about the JL is that all three of the Trinity have qualities that make them qualified for a leadership position. At the same time, they all have flaws that would not work so well for a leader. It's not really like The Avengers, where Captain America is the obvious/natural choice to lead. All three of them can make a good case for why they should be the leader. As for Azzarello, I think that he's emphasizing WW's ability to change people/make them better through her compassion and force of personality. She's already done it with Hera and even Stryfe to a degree. Now she's going to try to do it for the Amazons as a race. Stuff that I'd like the movie to take from his run:

1. WW being Zeus's father.
2. Some of the supporting cast. Zola, Lennox, Hera, etc.
3. The God mode and the bracelets being the key to suppressing it.
4. WW's personality/ideals.
5. The mythological aspects/portrayal of the gods.
6. etc.

They can just ignore the "rapist Amazons" part of it.

what is the "God Mode?"

I don't know that much about WW's lore.