Comics Amazing Spider-Man #600 (Prediction)

Like a few people here have said, the Peter leaving MJ at the alter doesn't have much appeal for me, especially as it's going to be the big #6-0-0. I magine Dan Slott will be given the task of writing the big A-story or maybe it will be all the Brain-Trust.

I'm looking forawrd to it being massive in terms of page count though. A new Stan Lee story would be great, especially with Romita Sr.
 
I can't believe #600 is just around the corner. I remember being excited about #500 (which boasted my favorite cover art)!
 
Uh, they've already announced that that's what the story for #600 will be.

Wasn't talking about that issue specifically, just that the explainations to the problems and massive plot holes created by OMD are still being written and were not made up in advance, as the brain trust has already admitted.
 
How about, instead of buying issue #600, I just go back and re-read the original wedding issue! That would totally save me 4 or 5 bucks, as well as a buttload of anger!

Honestly, I just cannot understand why they would think that wasting a centennial issue telling us what "really" happened at the wedding that happened in 1987 is a "good idea". I know they're not going to fix Spidey in issue #600, as the sales now look too positive for them to do so, but at least make it an interesting story with some consequences and not just some event that "rocks Spider-Man's world to its core" so that "nothing will ever be the same".


Yeah...nothing will ever be the same, except when they decide to push a reset button and make it the same again...
 
Wasn't talking about that issue specifically, just that the explainations to the problems and massive plot holes created by OMD are still being written and were not made up in advance, as the brain trust has already admitted.

Truthfully, what was admitted is that some plot holes were being written in after the fact while others have been planned since the begining.

:yay:
 
I believe, truthishly, what was said is the manifesto was there for the braintrust but no hows/whens/whys and such. Now I'm sure they've come up with some stuff since then, but like with the osborn being alive thing, some of the stuff they've just finished recently, and some more I'm rather sure (due to the nature of the beast) hasn't been thought out yet.
 
I believe, truthishly, what was said is the manifesto was there for the braintrust but no hows/whens/whys and such. Now I'm sure they've come up with some stuff since then, but like with the osborn being alive thing, some of the stuff they've just finished recently, and some more I'm rather sure (due to the nature of the beast) hasn't been thought out yet.

Iif the manifesto was written in late 2006, then there would have been plenty of time for the Braintrust to comer up with solutions before BND began; hence, Slott's A:TI #7, which he claims still has relevance.

:yay:
 
Iif the manifesto was written in late 2006, then there would have been plenty of time for the Braintrust to comer up with solutions before BND began; hence, Slott's A:TI #7, which he claims still has relevance.

:yay:

yes, and all the previous stories happened the same way except with a single peter parker just living with MJ, although no BND story could work with a married Peter Parker because being married changes things. (but MD, that statement contradicts itself? Shhh, pay no attention to the man behind the curtian fool)

ATI#7 cannot make sense given OMD. I'd say joey screwed a lot of people with that, slott just being another in that line. Remember OMD was changed at the last minute itself, the manifesto was pretty much all anyone had to go on as to what Peter's lack of a life would be. Remember the manifesto was just a statement of what's no why's whatsoever, and since the how was radically changed at the last minute...well I think you see where I'm going with this. They just recently figured out how harry came back (probably because harry coming back was one of those last minute changes, remember Joe wanted gwen back, wouldn't that be fun?).
 
ATI#7 cannot make sense given OMD. I'd say joey screwed a lot of people with that, slott just being another in that line. Remember OMD was changed at the last minute itself, the manifesto was pretty much all anyone had to go on as to what Peter's lack of a life would be.

And I will simply remind you that OMD was only changed at the last minute because JMS made changes to the story that JMS wanted and not Marvel; therefore, the changes made were simply made in order for the Braintrust stories to work (thus keeping Slott's A:TI #7 intact), and to not satiate JMS' ego.

I guess we'll have to wait'n see on this one...

:yay:
 
What parts of OMD were changed? Are you referring to how JMS originally wanted to reboot the story?
 
What parts of OMD were changed? Are you referring to how JMS originally wanted to reboot the story?

Yes... Marvel had given JMS a mandate on how the story was to be, but JMS wanted to make it so that Peter stayed by Harry's side in ASM #98; hence making MJ stay with Harry as he recovered, and so on and so forth... Gwen never died, the Goblin Twins never existed, etc... so JQ had to edit the story to fit what Marvel wanted in the first place, because the new BND teams had a foundation they had been working on, and the JMS ending would have altered that...
 
What parts of OMD were changed? Are you referring to how JMS originally wanted to reboot the story?

Issues 3 and 4 to the point where JMS wanted his name completely off the story. You'll see Joey Q was creditted as cowritter for these issues. Here's what the actual writer of spider-man at the time said:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=141756

Speak of the devil and he shall appear....

For whatever it's worth, the situation is not as clear cut as one might hope. The reality of any writer working for any company, DC or Marvel or Image, is that when you're handed a franchise character, you're basically entrusted with something that the company owns, and the company has final say in what happens to that character, because as a writer, you're only there for a certain amount of time and then the next guy has to come in. Spider-Man belongs to Marvel, not to me, and at the end of the day, however much I may disagree with things, and however much I may make it very CLEAR to all parties that I disagree, I have to honor their position.

In the Gwen storyline, yes, I wanted it to be Peter's kids, Joe over-rode that, which is his right as EIC. I got the flack for that decision, but them's the breaks.

In the current storyline, there's a lot that I don't agree with, and I made this very clear to everybody within shouting distance at Marvel, especially Joe. I'll be honest: there was a point where I made the decision, and told Joe, that I was going to take my name off the last two issues of the OMD arc. Eventually Joe talked me out of that decision because at the end of the day, I don't want to sabotage Joe or Marvel, and I have a lot of respect for both of those. As an executive producer as well as a writer, I've sometimes had to insist that my writers make changes that they did not want to make, often loudly so. They were sure I was wrong. Mostly I was right. Sometimes I was wrong. But whoever sits in the editor's chair, or the executive producer's chair, wears the pointy hat of authority, and as Dave Sim once noted, you can't argue with a pointy hat.

So at the end of the day, all one can do is try to do the best one can with the notes one is given, and try to execute them in a professional way...because who knows, the other guy may be right. The only thing I *can* tell you, with absolute certainty, is that what Joe does with Spidey and all the rest of the Marvel characters, he does out of a genuine love of the character. He's not looking to sabotage anything, he's not looking to piss off the fans, he genuinely believes in the rightness of his views not out of a sense of "I'm the boss" but because he loves these characters and the Marvel universe.

And right or wrong, you have to respect that.



Now from the "other" writer:

“the script we had just received was not the one we were expecting, and the events that were being set forth in that issue were going to conflict with the work that was already being done on “Brand New Day.” I thought that perhaps Joe had forgotten some of the stuff discussed at the summit meetings and the subsequent e-mails and discussions that followed, but that didn’t seem to be the case; this was the story he wanted to tell. In his story, Mephisto was going to change continuity from as far back as issues #96-98 from 1971. In Joe’s story, Peter drops the dime on Harry, and that helps get him into rehab right away. Consequently, MJ stays with Harry, and Gwen never dies and never has her affair with Norman, etc., etc. And in the end, Peter and MJ are never married.”

To Quesada, that solution discounted every issue of Amazing Spider-Man since that 1971 story arc, and by doing that, would have caused far-reaching and unmanageable changes throughout the larger Marvel Universe. “In other words, there was just no way to tell Joe’s story without blowing up the entire Marvel U and every Spider-Man’s fan’s collection,” Quesada said.

“What we originally discussed with Joe and the group was much simpler and cleaner: The wedding? Something happened on the wedding day that prevented it from happening. The unsmasking? Mephisto makes people forget it; much like the Sentry, it happened -- it’s just no longer remembered. And Harry? Well, there’s always a price to pay when you make a deal with the devil. Is it a perfect solution? Absolutely not. Does it get us to where we want to be? Yes.”

Quesada ended his explanation of the changes made by publicly apologizing to Straczynski for having to change his original story.



Back to the original writer:

Thursday morning, Newsarama received an unsolicited e-mail from Straczynski, in which, he wrote:

Having seen Joe's third interview on OMD, I think he raised a lot of fair issues. I think most of it represents accurately our conversations. It does, however, omit some of the main concerns I had with the resolution...concerns not mentioned therein, most probably as an oversight. As you know from my prior email, I was content not to respond to the prior interviews because I don't need to have the last word. (Newsarama Note: this last was in reference to Straczynski’s earlier e-mail mentioned earlier in which he declined a “One More Day” post mortem conversation.)

But there are some vital omissions in the interview, including the primary reason I finally threw up my hands on the book, which had mainly to do with how the resolution was handled.

To explain, here's the conversation I had with Marvel, in sum:

"So what does Mephisto do?" I ask.

"He makes everybody forget Peter's Spider-Man."

"Uh, huh. So Aunt May's still in the hospital --"

"No, he saves Aunt May."

"But if all he does is save her life and make everybody forget he's Spidey, she still has a scar on her midsection."

"No, he makes that go away too."

"Okay...:

"Then he wakes up in her house."

"The house that was burned down?"

"Right."

"But how --"

"Mephisto undoes that as well."

"Okay. And the guys who shot at Peter and May and were killed, they're alive too? Mephisto can bring guys back from the dead?"

"It's all part of the spell."

"And Doc Strange can't tell?"

"No,"

"And the newspaper articles? News footage?"

"Joe, it's been forgotten."

"I'm just asking is that stuff there or not there?"

"Not there. And Peter's web shooters are back."

"Is this the same spell or a different spell?"

"Same spell."

"How does making people forget he's Spidey bring back his web shooters?"

"It's magic, okay?"

"I see. And Harry's back."

"Right."

"And Mephisto does this too."

"Yep."

"So is Harry back from the dead, or has he been alive? If they ask him, hey Harry, what did you do last summer, will he remember? And the year before? And the year before? If he says they all went on a picnic two years ago, will they remember it?"

"It's --"

"Because if he now has a life he remembers, if he's not back from the dead, then you've changed the continuity you said you didn't want to change. Those are your only options: he was brought back from the dead, and there's a grave, and people remember him dying --"

"Mephisto changes THEIR memories too."

"-- or he's effectively been alive as far as our characters know, so he's been alive all along, so either way as far as our characters are concerned, continuity's been violated going back to 1971.

How do you explain that?"

"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

And that's the part I had a real problem with, maybe the single biggest problem. There's this notion that magic fixes everything. It doesn't. "It's magic, we don't have to explain it." Well, actually, yes, you do. Magic has to have rules. And this is clearly not just a case of one spell making everybody forget he's Spidey...suddenly you're bringing back the dead, undoing wounds, erasing records, reinstating web shooters, on and on and on.

What I wanted to do was to make one small change to history, a tiny thing, whose ripples we could control to only touch what editorial wanted to touch, making changes we could explain logically. I worked for weeks to come up with a timeline that would leave every other bit of continuity in place. It was rigorous, and as logical as I could make it. In the end of OMD as published, Harry is alive and he's always been alive as far as the characters know...so how is that different than he was alive the whole time?

It made no sense to me.

Still doesn't. It's sloppy. It violates every rule of writing fiction of the fantastic that I and every other SF/Fantasy writer knows you can't violate. It's fantasy 101.

It troubled me that it's MJ and not Peter who is the one to actively make the decision.

I'd originally written the first issue of OMD to take place directly after May gets shot, and in fact turned in the first script directly after she gets nailed. Editorial decided to build in a block of issues for One More Day...meaning May would be in that bed for almost a *year* which I thought was just too long to make work.

And yes, I wanted to retcon the Gwen twins out of continuity, which was something I always assumed I could do at the end of my run. I wasn't allowed to do this, and yes, it pissed me off. I felt I was left holding the bag for something I wanted to get rid of, and taking the rap for a writing lapse that I had never committed. Why this aspect was not brought up in the other interview, you'd have to ask Joe.

Mainly, the book was rewritten in the editorial offices to a degree that the words weren't mine any longer, to a certain degree in three, and massively in four. If the work represents me, I leave the name there and take the rap; if it doesn't, then that's a different situation. There's just not much of my work there, especially once you get to the last dong of midnight...everything after that was written by editorial.

Whether my work is good or it sucks, it's mine. What came out of the end of OMD wasn't, hence my desire to omit the writing credit. Joe graciously offered to share it on the last issue. I think that helped. Credit where credit is due.

What I don't want is for this to turn into a public pissing match. Joe did what he did because he thought it was the right thing to do, and as EIC that's his call, not mine. I respect and admire him. I hope this will be the end of the matter.

I just felt that there were some important bits not addressed, that needed to be.


^now to be fair, joey Q denies the last conversation ever took place. I personally believe it did for the simple reason that why would a writer lie and piss off the editor of the biggest comic company in the world? And if it was a lie why wasn't JMS fired or disciplined or something? It wasn't long after this JMS began jumping ship to DC.
 
^now to be fair, joey Q denies the last conversation ever took place. I personally believe it did for the simple reason that why would a writer lie and piss off the editor of the biggest comic company in the world? And if it was a lie why wasn't JMS fired or disciplined or something? It wasn't long after this JMS began jumping ship to DC.

It's worth pointing out that, in the infamous "it's magic" convo, JMS never identified Quesada as the one who says that. The convo is between JMS and "Marvel." It could of been an editor or another writer, since there was apparently several people at Marvel all working on OMD/BND.

Also, if JMS was so pissed off at Quesada and Marvel in general, he wouldn't still be writing Thor; he would have jumped ship completely.
 
true, but we all know who's been dreaming about this since forever, it's the same guy that changed the story and wrote the end to OMD. Why would he be talking to someone else about this?

I think the fact that they gave him thor and the twelve is the only reason he's still around (and thank god cause both of those rock). I believe that he was pissed but calmed down. Plus marvel would be stupid to really alienate someone that's such an exceptional writer and idea man so I'm sure something was worked out behind the scenes to placate the egos involved. And one thing I'll say for joe, the man definately has some thick skin, I doubt he gets too offended by much. JMS said what he wanted to say, set the record straight if you will, to go beyond that when he was still welcome at marvel would just be spiteful.
 
true, but we all know who's been dreaming about this since forever, it's the same guy that changed the story and wrote the end to OMD. Why would he be talking to someone else about this?

But yet again... the changes were only made because JMS did NOT write the story he was assigned to write... had JMS done his job, the changes would not have beeen required.
 
IF my boss told me to write a dumb story....i don't think i'd want to write it either. :csad:

I've said before, not becausei think it was needed, but i would have preferred that if they were gonna panic and hit the reboot button....to do it gung ho, all the way.

Reboot it with Gwen back and everything!! If you're gonna MESS with something..MESS WITH IT...really stir that pot! Don't give it a wimpy half altered continuity....and don't alter continuity and pretend it is all the same...that is silly. Either do the history alterations and be proud of it...or go home.

Instead, they did a half hearted reboot, per say. Go for the gusto if you're gonna tamper with continuity. Gwen coulda been hidden away by Norman too! It coulda all been a conspiracy!
 
In all honesty, i cant say that i side with either JMS nor Quesada. JMS was going to actually go back in time and change history whose ripple effects would have been a total continuity nightmare not only for spiderman but for the rest of the marvel universe. Quesada wanted our beloved hero to make an awful deal with the devil that would only "magically" change some things. Both decisions were stupid and insulting, I love JMS, i think he totally gets Spider-man but his story would have been an absolute disaster to the spiderman comics.
 
Reboot it with Gwen back and everything!! If you're gonna MESS with something..MESS WITH IT...really stir that pot!
JQ and JMS both wanted to bring Gwen back. Writers (I don't know what ones) persuaded JQ that it wasn't the best course. I could've dug Gwen being back.
 
********. If Gwen was back, then you guys would be in even more of an uproar about it.
 
I don't think spidey needed a reboot at all...HOWEVER....since they were gonna do this, and alter continuity in big ways...they SHOULD HAVE brought her (Gwen) back too and really done something bold and NEW, which this doesn't feel new currently, imo,...instead of this half hearted reboot, that changes everything, but nothing changed, and feels so cheesy.

And in that reboot interview, Joe says Mephisto just zapped it all away...yet now they're trying to bring in another third unknown party to cover over and reboot their own reboot. Says a lot.
 
But yet again... the changes were only made because JMS did NOT write the story he was assigned to write... had JMS done his job, the changes would not have beeen required.

Um, if you're dictated the story you're writing, then you're not really writing it are you? The whole point of writing is to write, not copy something down from someone else. So JMS did do his job as a writer. If he was supposed to do something else then he should have had a different title like "assistant to coping a crappy illogical story" or "joey q's mindless lackey". If he had one of those titles then you'd be correct in saying he didn't do his job, but as he was the writer, then his job would have been to write.
 
Originally posted by Farmernudie

I don't think spidey needed a reboot at all...HOWEVER....since they were gonna do this, and alter continuity in big ways...they SHOULD HAVE brought her (Gwen) back too and really done something bold and NEW, which this doesn't feel new currently, imo,...instead of this half hearted reboot, that changes everything, but nothing changed, and feels so cheesy.

Usually i agree with your statements bro, but i gotta disagree here. Would you REALLY have wanted them to bring Gwen back? If they brought Gwen back then they might as well bring Uncle Ben back and pretty much restart everything from 0. Despite what Quesada has done to Spidey, i am eternally grateful that he decided NOT to bring Gwen back. It just woulda undone decades worth of character progress and stories. PEter's tragedies are what helped him grow and mature over the years, if you take that away then he's basically the same 15 year old from Amazing Fantasy 15 right?
 
I am not encouraging my idea...of bringing Gwen back...nor would i have thought it was needed or smart.

I am just saying...trying to express myself well....that in my opinion...if you are gonna do ANYTHING in life....go for it and DO IT. FULLY.

Don't drink half a milkshake and try calling it a hamburger.

That's the whole problem with the reboot.

They wanted to write stories they never told before. They half rebooted it. But they won't call it that. They made continuity hisotrical changes, but won't admit that their changes changed anything, except for those that are convenient to them.

The result, in my opinion, is SAME OLD DAY....the new series....trying to make sense of stuff that was never meant to be made sense of. MEphisto was just gonna poff things awaya nd then move onward. Now they're trying to make sense of somethings after having no admitted plan to do so. Even more, now they wanna take Mephisto out of the equation, when he WAS the equation and answer to everything according to Joe.

So, i am just saying, if they wanted things REALLY NEW NEW...bring back Gwen! Sure! Reboot ALL SORTS OF CRAP!! GO FOR IT HEAD ON! MAybe have aunt may die and Uncle ben suddenly ALIVE...who knows...use some IMAGINATION MARVEL.

Instead, they are telling same ol stories. Same ol goblin stories. Same ol wheatcakes, etc...Flash in yet another war.

They went for a PASSIVE REBOOT, is all i am saying. Half hearted.

Do i think any of this reboot, either way NEEDED to happen?? NO WAY!!!

I am jsut saying, if you (They) are gonna do something like this...go crazy with it and DO IT. Use IMAGINATION and TELL SOEMTHING TRULY NEW.

HAVE AUNT MAY FIND OUT SHE OWES HER LIFE TO SATAN AND HAVE HER HATE PETE"S GUTS! Anything....NEW....

The created ALTERNATE SPIDER-MAN either way. They might as well have created a full ALTERNATE instead of a HALF, if you know what i mean??

Again...NONE OF this...SHOULD have happened. But if they wanted to do something bold....DO SOMETHING BOLD.

Instead...we get...JAckpot is (drum roll) really just some "girl" and ballerina's beat up spidey-man-boy and Pete is a hobo looking for a job and everything even semi-ok storywise is kinda like a repeat of the 70's.
 
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