The Dark Knight Anyone else sick of the people bashing batman in order to praise joker?

[The Batman]

"Batman wasnt the star of this movie"
"Joker owned Batman the entire time"
"This movie was about the joker"
"If Batman werent in the movie, no one would care, because joker was so good"

I seriously question the fandom of these people...whether or not the actually understand the Batman mythos...whether they understand that this was not a joker movie, but an ensemble film...whether they understand that joker didnt do to batman what any villain is supposed to do throughout a superhero film...

basically...is anyone else sick of this deranged need to love the joker so much that they have to put down the MAIN CHARACTER?

 

[Bat-Mite]

Anyone who doesn't respect Batman after seeing this film needs to have their head examined. Especially after that iconic speech given by Gordon at the end of the film.

 

[gwynplaine]

Perfect ensemble cast. Everybody shines. Should be studied in film school.

 

[Arsh]

Perfect ensemble cast. Everybody shines. Should be studied in film school.

Agreed.

Everyone was fantastic in the movie... my personal favourite though was Aaron Eckhart as Dent. He was amazing.

 

[JokerLedger]

There was a nice balance in the movie. All three of the main characters can be considered main characters and the movie would still work.

 

[metalhead_dave]

Yeah, put me in the hat of people who are sick of that crap. Batman is VERY much a part of this film. The entire movie wouldn't even happen without his presence in Gotham in the first place.

And here are my answers to your quotes.

"Batman wasnt the star of this movie"

Bull... TB you said it yourself, ensemble cast. But it revolved around Batman, Dent, Gordon and The Joker. Four Leads.

"Joker owned Batman the entire time"

Yes he did until the end, where Batman saved the ferries, stopped the Swat guys from killing the hostages while saving their asses from the goons at the same time, and CAUGHT the Joker.

"This movie was about the joker"

Bull... Bull Bull Bull Bull Bull. Anybody who spews that line does NOT get this freaking movie and needs to rewatch it with their Joker bias switch turned OFF! I won't name names, but the arguements I read on this site from that viewpoint make me want to vomit.

"If Batman werent in the movie, no one would care, because joker was so good"

If Batman weren't in the movie, there would be a hell of a lot, a HELL of a lot of explaining to do to make this movie work. BATMAN is the core character, Gotham is the way it is because of HIS actions, HIS presence. The only reason the Joker debuted and caused all sorts of chaos is because of BATMAN, the only reason a guy like Harvey Dent can rise up and fight the mob is because of BATMAN!

 

[Saint]

"Batman wasnt the star of this movie"
"Joker owned Batman the entire time"
"This movie was about the joker"
"If Batman werent in the movie, no one would care, because joker was so good"

I seriously question the fandom of these people...whether or not the actually understand the Batman mythos...whether they understand that this was not a joker movie, but an ensemble film...whether they understand that joker didnt do to batman what any villain is supposed to do throughout a superhero film...

basically...is anyone else sick of this deranged need to love the joker so much that they have to put down the MAIN CHARACTER?

Indeed. I never understood those who claimed to movie was really about Harvey or really about the Joker rather than Batman, when it was obviously about all three of them in equal measure. Equal measure, but different ways. Joker isn't so much a character as he is an event--he's something that happens to the other characters in the film. He's a consequence of Batman's existence, and ultimately, that is what the movie is about. The consequences of Batman's existence to the city, to Harvey Dent, and to Batman himself.

 

[Harrygucha]

BAtman was incredible in TDK. The voice was amazing. A Lot of people miss the point of how Bale used the voice; incredible acting. His voice goes incredibly more animalistic at the end because he's trying to disguise his voice and deal with his emotions at the same time, this is why he sounds like a beast. When he has Joker hanging upside down, you get the feeling, that he so badly wants to loose the line and let Joker drop, but he's fighting that, he's staring down Rachel's killer, and his emotions are so mixed: he's angry, sad, etc. IT was just beautifully played by Bale. Especially the ending when he looks to be fighting back tears, but still has that beast mentality "Why was I the one who lost everything?" "It wasn't." Amazing stuff from Bale. He is the definitive Batman. No ands, ifs, or buts about it.

 

[CFE]

Honestly, I'm more sick of people bashing the previous Batman films in favor of praising "TDK" ...

Now THOSE are the people whose fandom should be questioned, IMO...

CFE

 

[Harrygucha]

Honestly, I'm more sick of people bashing the previous Batman films in favor of praising "TDK" ...

Now THOSE are the people whose fandom should be questioned, IMO...

CFE

That's because as movies, those previous Batman films were pieces of crap!

 

[Harrygucha]

To me, KEaton was just Keaton in a rubber suit. Clooney was head bobbing Clooney in a rubber, nippled suit. And Kilmer was Kilmer in a nippled suit. Bale, in the suit is BAtman. The first actor to play the three different sides of the character: The party-boy, the serious Bruce, and The BAtman. With Nolan's films you just have more talent - that's the bottom line. Nolan has more talent in his big toe than Burton and Schumacer put together. Nolan will go down as one of the greatest visual, cinematic stroytellers of our time. He can't be touched when it comes to making visual pieces of art. So...yes..the previous BAtman films were **** in my opinion.

 

[The Joker]

I haven't noticed anyone bashing Batman. Most criticism he seems to get is to do with Bale's Batman voice.

That's because as movies, those previous Batman films were pieces of crap!

Only Schumacher's were crap.

 

[SalaciousVC]

That's because as movies, those previous Batman films were pieces of crap!

I'll say it again I enjoy Batman '89 and Returns for what they are

Now Shumacher on the other hand,bash those all you want t:

 

[Doctor Jones]

The only people who would think that don't know a thing about Batman. They only saw it for The Joker or Heath Ledger. They just don't care. They praise the film, but what they're raving about is Heath. We know who the true fans are. The ones who've followed this thing from the beginning and actually have read the damn comic books.

 

[BubbaGump]

BAtman was incredible in TDK. The voice was amazing. A Lot of people miss the point of how Bale used the voice; incredible acting. His voice goes incredibly more animalistic at the end because he's trying to disguise his voice and deal with his emotions at the same time, this is why he sounds like a beast. When he has Joker hanging upside down, you get the feeling, that he so badly wants to loose the line and let Joker drop, but he's fighting that, he's staring down Rachel's killer, and his emotions are so mixed: he's angry, sad, etc. IT was just beautifully played by Bale. Especially the ending when he looks to be fighting back tears, but still has that beast mentality "Why was I the one who lost everything?" "It wasn't." Amazing stuff from Bale. He is the definitive Batman. No ands, ifs, or buts about it.

Thank you. I absolutely love the voice. I can see why some people don't like it, but on the other hand, I don't know why they can't. If that makes any sense.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

^^^ It does. It's just that people are so used to have Batman speak in a particular manner, that they just got used to it. Keaton, IMO, never really got that Bruce Wayne and Batman NEEDED to be 2 completely different entities. I'm not dissing Keaton or B89 in any way, I just think that Bale and Nolan got that idea better than anyone else who have touched upon Batman before, and really took that idea to heart.

 

[Fenrir]

"Batman wasnt the star of this movie"
"Joker owned Batman the entire time"
"This movie was about the joker"
"If Batman werent in the movie, no one would care, because joker was so good"

I seriously question the fandom of these people...whether or not the actually understand the Batman mythos...whether they understand that this was not a joker movie, but an ensemble film...whether they understand that joker didnt do to batman what any villain is supposed to do throughout a superhero film...

basically...is anyone else sick of this deranged need to love the joker so much that they have to put down the MAIN CHARACTER?

Tell me about it. I've always maintained that the final scene of the film where Batman puts it on himself to take the blame for all of Harvey's crimes just so The Joker could not win, so that Harvey's prosecution wouldn't be undone, so that the city would not lose faith in their symbol of hope...that was the defining moment for the character - a true representation of all that Batman stands for: unlimited good against The Joker's unlimited evil. The Joker may have had the upper hand a lot of the time during the duration of the film (just as he should, because he isn't called Batman's arch villain for nothing) but it is during the climax when it was who completely stole the show from him with his sacrifice.

Besides, The Joker, by his very nature is a bombastic and theatrical character. That is why he always seems to steal the limelight in whatever movie he's in. Whereas Bruce Wayne/Batman is the more understated, serious and subtler role that requires a different kind of acting. I always said that it is Christian Bale's performance that was the real anchor of the film - the way he so effortlessly channeled all three personas of Bruce Wayne both in and out of the suit. This movie as about Batman as much as it could possibly get.

 

[Fenrir]

Thank you. I absolutely love the voice. I can see why some people don't like it, but on the other hand, I don't know why they can't. If that makes any sense.

Same here. Bale's Batman voice is fantastic and absolutely perfect. It was so right that now I'm having trouble watching other incarnations of Batman without it. Case in point - I was seeing Gotham Knight the other day and Conroy's Batman voice was so...pedestrian, so normal, so unimposing. On the other hand, watching Batman smashed Joker's face into the glass and punching his teeth out yelling "WHERE ARE THEY?!!" with an uncontrollable rage and a voice forged straight out of f**king hell (on bloody IMAX to boot) had me torn between completely delighted and absolutely stunned.

 

[deathfromabove]

Indeed. I never understood those who claimed to movie was really about Harvey or really about the Joker rather than Batman, when it was obviously about all three of them in equal measure. Equal measure, but different ways. Joker isn't so much a character as he is an event--he's something that happens to the other characters in the film. He's a consequence of Batman's existence, and ultimately, that is what the movie is about. The consequences of Batman's existence to the city, to Harvey Dent, and to Batman himself.

exactly.

 

[OctaviusINC]

Many "civilians" I know bash Two Face. I ask them why and they really don't give me a reason. The only reason they dislike Batman is because of the 'ol cliche' "What's up with his voice?" question. Meh.

Joker stole the show...again. No doubt about it. I've been watching the interrogation scene over and over and the past few times I'd focus just on Bale's performance. IMO he's exactly how Batman should be. Joker just spews out his beliefs, things that stand against Batman, and Batman just stands there and stares at him dead on the eyes. He says barely anything. He's scary and intimidating. And you only see the little glistens of his eyes. Mysterious. I especially love when Batman jams the door shut with the chair. It's like Joker mentions Dent and Rachel and Batman automatically switched to "Beat the living **** out of you" mode. He's such a badass in that scene.

But as for the most underrated performance? Oldman all the way. Seriously he was PHENOMENAL.

 

[BubbaGump]

But as for the most underrated performance? Oldman all the way. Seriously he was PHENOMENAL.

Seriously. "I have to save Dent!" is one of my favorite lines in the film.

 

[CJ]

Many "civilians" I know bash But as for the most underrated performance? Oldman all the way. Seriously he was PHENOMENAL.

THANK YOU.Seriously, all I hear when people online or on TV talk about this movie, is Ledger Ledger Ledger, Bale this, Bale that, and to a lesser extent, Eckhart.Oldman got NO props for what was possibly the best preformance in the film next to Ledger's.I was a big fan of Bale in Batman Begins. He truly embodied Bruce Wayne, and had a lot of character development throughout the film.But in TDK, it seemed like he only existed to fight the Joker. There was little depth to his preformance, the love triangle was hardly used to its full potential, and he showed close to no emotion after Rachel's death. I hated how little Bruce/Batman was explored in this movie all in favor of showcasing The Joker and Dent.The movie is called THE DARK KNIGHT, not THE JOKER.

 

[-Arya-]

Indeed. I never understood those who claimed to movie was really about Harvey or really about the Joker rather than Batman, when it was obviously about all three of them in equal measure. Equal measure, but different ways. Joker isn't so much a character as he is an event--he's something that happens to the other characters in the film. He's a consequence of Batman's existence, and ultimately, that is what the movie is about. The consequences of Batman's existence to the city, to Harvey Dent, and to Batman himself.

I was getting upset over this myself and you just stated what was on my mind about the film. Well said.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Seriously. "I have to save Dent!" is one of my favorite lines in the film.

Mine too. I love Oldman's delivery. Him pointing the gun with the desperation in his voice was the icing on the cake. And the music cue to it as well.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Many "civilians" I know bash Two Face. I ask them why and they really don't give me a reason. The only reason they dislike Batman is because of the 'ol cliche' "What's up with his voice?" question. Meh.

Joker stole the show...again. No doubt about it. I've been watching the interrogation scene over and over and the past few times I'd focus just on Bale's performance. IMO he's exactly how Batman should be. Joker just spews out his beliefs, things that stand against Batman, and Batman just stands there and stares at him dead on the eyes. He says barely anything. He's scary and intimidating. And you only see the little glistens of his eyes. Mysterious. I especially love when Batman jams the door shut with the chair. It's like Joker mentions Dent and Rachel and Batman automatically switched to "Beat the living **** out of you" mode. He's such a badass in that scene.

But as for the most underrated performance? Oldman all the way. Seriously he was PHENOMENAL.

Exactly. I always tell people, the next time you watch TDK pay more attention to Eckardt, Bale, and Oldman.

They were equel to Ledger in their own ways. Ledger got more attention becasue he plays the a psychopath in a purple suit and clown make-up who laughs. Not to mention Ledger's death. But that's the point of the Joker though. He's suppose to steal the show. In the comics, tv series, the films. You do have to play a psychopath to have the best performance. That's what alot of people don't see. Those three were as just as good as Ledger.