Anyone feel the Batman Trilogy won't be regarded as perfect?

[bullets]

Not for me. I love Begins. I think once TDKR comes out, this series will be my "The Trilogy".

If it's a matter of personal opinion then Batman Begins certainly doesn't bring this franchise down.

 

[Brawl]

i recently watched both Batman Begins & The Dark Knight, and while TDK is the better movie i enjoyed BB a whole lot more. for me, it's definitely the best superhero/comic book origin story film. better than Spiderman & Iron Man by a longshot. i like that it focuses more on Batman/Bruce than TDK does. who cares what critics think?

Naw still not as good as IM1, close but Ironman is best comic book adaption origin to date IMO.

 

[Brawl]

Batman Begins is awesome. People need to stop putting TDK up on a pedestal like it's the greatest f***ing movie ever made. BB was just as good for different reasons.

Moreover, TDK wouldn't have been as big of a hit had it not been preceded by BB. When BB came out, audiences were still skittish about Batman movies after seeing them get butchered by Schumacher. BB changed all of that. Had they skipped a Batman origin and just made TDK, it would have still been a hit, but the box office would have been similar to BB because people would have been skeptical going into it. A sequel to TDK would have been a bigger hit in that instance.

BB changed people's perception of Batman movies; TDK reinforced it.

Agree

 

[Brawl]

Nah, I think TDK would've made a considerable amount of money even without BB because it had the Joker, the most popular supervillain of all time. Couple that with its heart-pounding trailers and superb marketing and TDK would've been a hit no matter what, though it probably would've made less money than if BB hadn't come before it.

Disagree with Joker being most "popular" super-villain. Venom seems to be right now way more popular. I see tons of Venom merchandise but almost none on the Joker.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I highly doubt it. Better than Begins could easily be the case, but I don't see it surpassing The Dark Knight at least in terms of RT score. Just doubtful in my opinion. You're completely wrong about those other movies too. Most early screenings get glowing reviews, even when the product downright sucks (I even remember Spider-Man 3 and X-Men The Last Stand got glowing early reviews). A lot of it's because they'll give those reviewers VIP treatment, and in reality they'll end up skewing their own reviews as a result. Plus, most production companies know what they're doing with early screenings, and they're looking to create positive buzz not negative feedback.

So even if some or many personally end up feeling it's a better movie, I doubt the critics will rank it higher than TDK.

You're completely wrong about Spider-Man too. That held strong at 92% forever before dropping to 72%. I doubt we'll see that kind of a drop with TDKR, but I think with third installments too many pre-conceived notions about how it should end or how it does end at least tend to make many reviewers go negative. That, and TDKR isn't seen as an "unneccessary reboot".

*Shrug* That, and something tells me one or some character in this movie will get the short end of the stick or seem unnecessary. In big ensembles someone will naturally feel "[my pet character] didn't get enough screentime...blah blah...this could've been two movies".

I disagree. Each day more reactions are coming in, and 95% of these critics believe TDKR is the best film of the trilogy. There's even Oscar-chatter making rounds with these critics. So while Spiderman 3 and Green Lantern received gushing reviews too, it's undeniable that there were bad vibes and warning signs going into those respective films. TDKR, however, hasn't given off any negative impressions and presentiments. Everyone is expecting a great to stellar film, and early buzz says Nolan has met and surpassed expectations.

Is every critic going to come into agreement with that that notion? Of course not. There'll be critics who will show TDK favoritism, hate for Christopher Nolan and/or Batman, etc. It's inevitable. Will it score above 94% on Rotten Tomatoes? It's too early to tell but if this trend continues, the film could end up at 96%.

It's fine to be conservative but at this stage, it's almost guaranteed that TDKR will be what people expect it to be. The writing/storytelling and performances (Bale, Hathaway, JGL, Cotillard, Oldman, Hardy, Caine) are receiving notable and universal praise.

As for Webb's Spiderman... forever? I sure as hell don't remember TASM being in the 90s for more than several days. It was on 85% the day it was released and in the high 70s the following day. I severely doubt that TDKR will experience the similar fate.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Disagree with Joker being most "popular" super-villain. Venom seems to be right now way more popular. I see tons of Venom merchandise but almost none on the Joker.

You're kidding, right?

Then again, you were also claiming that TDKR had no significant hype behind it based on your Wal-Mart update.

 

[The Question]

With The Amazing Spider-Man i'm more afraid that when they reboot Batman fans will begin to throw away Nolan's trilogy as if it wasn't important and say the new movie gets it right and how they never really liked Nolan's take on the character.

In least that's what i'm noticing with Sam Raimi's Spider-Man Trilogy.

The difference is that there's a huge gap in terms of quality between the Raimi Spider-Mans and the Nolan Batmans.

 

[Brawl]

Disagree with Joker being most "popular" super-villain. Venom seems to be right now way more popular. I see tons of Venom merchandise but almost none on the Joker.

You're kidding, right?

Then again, you were also claiming that TDKR had no significant hype behind it based on your Wal-Mart update.

Not kidding. Venom T-shirts and toys are everywhere. Venom even has his own comic series. By what standard are you gauging the Jokers popularity as of late?

As far as the DKR build-up, it is about average. It however does not have any where near the build up TA had. TA marketing was nearly half the reason the movie suceeded as much as it did. We will see soon if the TDKR marketing strategy will pay off.

 

[Art Damage]

As far as the DKR build-up, it is about average. It however does not have any where near the build up TA had. TA marketing was nearly half the reason the movie suceeded as much as it did.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Not kidding. Venom T-shirts and toys are everywhere. Venom even has his own comic series. By what standard are you gauging the Jokers popularity as of late?

As far as the DKR build-up, it is about average. It however does not have any where near the build up TA had. TA marketing was nearly half the reason the movie suceeded as much as it did. We will see soon if the TDKR marketing strategy will pay off.

This guy is either clueless, or obviously trolling.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Certain segments of Spider-Man fandom annoy me. The first two Spider-Man movies were VERY well received, both being critical successes as well as mainstream pop culture events. For a while those two movies, and Raimi, received almost nothing but praise. But no, the fans couldn't let Raimi tell the story that he had been building up to, even though he had clearly earned that right the way that Nolan has with Batman. The fans clamored for Venom to be stuffed into Spider-Man 3, and the studio granted their wish over Raimi's objections.

Then when the movie turned out subpar and with a scattered plot (something that I, and numerous other people called as soon as Venom was confirmed) these fanboys turned on Raimi. Suddenly Raimi was ALWAYS a hack. Suddenly Raimi, and even Maguire (who had been praised for nailing the role of Peter Parker) "never got" the character. Supposedly Raimi's Spidey never quipped or wisecracked, even though he did. And in the action scenes where he didn't, it was perfectly understandable since his loved ones were in danger more often than not. It wouldn't have fit the circumstances for Spidey to be making light of things, in the middle of a big dramatic scene with Mary Jane's life at stake. BTW, did Webb's Spidey even wisecrack all that much, aside from his confrontation with that one knife-wielding car thief? That one scene that was highlighted in the trailer, to assert that TASM was totally different than Raimi's 2002 movie (it was not, practically being the same movie). Because I don't remember him wisecracking in the bridge scene, or when he was fighting the Lizard with the fate of New York hanging in the balance.

Message boards do not represent the general population, which is less prone to extremes of emotion, and more loyal to past heroes. The most vocal people on a forum aren't even representative of most of the forum members. In general, certain message board fanboys love to complain. Hell, I'm complaining myself right now. It's much more enticing to rant against something online than it is to simply say that you're satisfied with something, which offers less material to write about. I'm already seeing a vocal minority of Nolan detractors complaining about how he's not using Robin, or taking the fantasy out of Batman. I expect these people to get louder several years after TDKR comes out, when every satisfied or normal person has naturally moved on. The people complaining about something years after the fact tend to be the ones with an axe to grind, and an inability to let go.

 

[Sith]

As far as the 2 movies go BB is on par with TDK. I can't see how anyone can say BB may bring the trilogy down?

 

[tekken]

A lot of kids didn't like BB. I remember when I first saw it - I must have been 14; most of my friends thought it was boring. Now that we're in our 20's, they still consider it a boring movie, but I'm certain if they give it a try now, they'd love it. I think it takes a deeper level of investment to really get into Nolan's Batman movies. I can understand why people don't like that though - some people watch movies to sit, relax, and enjoy. You really need to pay attention, and think about what happens in the story to enjoy Nolan's films.

So really, what I'm saying is, my friends don't like BB because they're not smart enough to "get it." This has got to be the most selfish notion, but whatever. I love me my Bat-flicks!

 

[Naked Shia]

Certain segments of Spider-Man fandom annoy me. The first two Spider-Man movies were VERY well received, both being critical successes as well as mainstream pop culture events. For a while those two movies, and Raimi, received almost nothing but praise. But no, the fans couldn't let Raimi tell the story that he had been building up to, even though he had clearly earned that right the way that Nolan has with Batman. The fans clamored for Venom to be stuffed into Spider-Man 3, and the studio granted their wish over Raimi's objections.

Then when the movie turned out subpar and with a scattered plot (something that I, and numerous other people called as soon as Venom was confirmed) these fanboys turned on Raimi. Suddenly Raimi was ALWAYS a hack. Suddenly Raimi, and even Maguire (who had been praised for nailing the role of Peter Parker) "never got" the character. Supposedly Raimi's Spidey never quipped or wisecracked, even though he did. And in the action scenes where he didn't, it was perfectly understandable since his loved ones were in danger more often than not. It wouldn't have fit the circumstances for Spidey to be making light of things, in the middle of a big dramatic scene with Mary Jane's life at stake. BTW, did Webb's Spidey even wisecrack all that much, aside from his confrontation with that one knife-wielding car thief? That one scene that was highlighted in the trailer, to assert that TASM was totally different than Raimi's 2002 movie (it was not, practically being the same movie). Because I don't remember him wisecracking in the bridge scene, or when he was fighting the Lizard with the fate of New York hanging in the balance.

Message boards do not represent the general population, which is less prone to extremes of emotion, and more loyal to past heroes. The most vocal people on a forum aren't even representative of most of the forum members. In general, certain message board fanboys love to complain. Hell, I'm complaining myself right now. It's much more enticing to rant against something online than it is to simply say that you're satisfied with something, which offers less material to write about. I'm already seeing a vocal minority of Nolan detractors complaining about how he's not using Robin, or taking the fantasy out of Batman. I expect these people to get louder several years after TDKR comes out, when every satisfied or normal person has naturally moved on. The people complaining about something years after the fact tend to be the ones with an axe to grind, and an inability to let go.

I agree with you. Great post.

 

[Naked Shia]

Anyway, I don't care about the trilogy being perfect. Burton's batmovies aren't perfect, but they are still damn awesome to this day. and so will Nolan's batmovies be in 20 years.

 

[Cain]

Anyway, I don't care about the trilogy being perfect. Burton's batmovies aren't perfect, but they are still damn awesome to this day. and so will Nolan's batmovies be in 20 years.

Agreed.

 

[Juicy J]

I wouldn't call this trilogy 'perfect' to begin with (just a matter of personal opinion) but BB doesn't bring down the franchise at all. It's a solid movie that fits in nicely with the rest. I hadn't seen it since it came out in theaters so I watched it a few weeks ago and was very surprised at how much I liked it. I remember leaving the theater being slightly underwhelmed but I'm not sure why cause its a dang good movie.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Anyway, I don't care about the trilogy being perfect. Burton's batmovies aren't perfect, but they are still damn awesome to this day. and so will Nolan's batmovies be in 20 years.

I feel like Batman (1989) is still the best, and probably most iconic superhero movie to date. There's something about it that ages well, and I think it has the most style of any of them. It feels the most like it's own film, kind of like how Marvel has it's own "feel" or Raimi's Spider-Man movies have their own "feel". I think, as good as they are, in twenty years, when movies have acheived better special effects and films have progressed the fact that Nolan's trilogy seems to lack it's own personality will make it seem less "perfect".

There's something about B89 that I can get lost in. Same with the first two Superman movies. Nolan's film lacks some of that charm.

 

[Naked Shia]

I feel like Batman (1989) is still the best, and probably most iconic superhero movie to date. There's something about it that ages well, and I think it has the most style of any of them. It feels the most like it's own film, kind of like how Marvel has it's own "feel" or Raimi's Spider-Man movies have their own "feel". I think, as good as they are, in twenty years, when movies have acheived better special effects and films have progressed the fact that Nolan's trilogy seems to lack it's own personality will make it seem less "perfect".

There's something about B89 that I can get lost in. Same with the first two Superman movies. Nolan's film lacks some of that charm.

Nolan's movies are not visually flamboyant like Burton's movies are, but the emphasis put on the story, and the boldness of the narrative (being dead serious when most super hero movies are not very light hearted) will make them as memorable.

As for me, I love all batman movies, including the Schumacher ones. I think I would rate Burton and Nolan's movies as highly.

 

[BestGirl]

Message boards do not represent the general population, which is less prone to extremes of emotion, and more loyal to past heroes. The most vocal people on a forum aren't even representative of most of the forum members. In general, certain message board fanboys love to complain. Hell, I'm complaining myself right now. It's much more enticing to rant against something online than it is to simply say that you're satisfied with something, which offers less material to write about. I'm already seeing a vocal minority of Nolan detractors complaining about how he's not using Robin, or taking the fantasy out of Batman. I expect these people to get louder several years after TDKR comes out, when every satisfied or normal person has naturally moved on. The people complaining about something years after the fact tend to be the ones with an axe to grind, and an inability to let go.

Excellent observation. This is why I expect the Nolan detractors to pop up all over the place as the reboot gets going.

 

[Octoberist]

@Clarkluther is right.

Usually message boards aren't the best way to gauge the populous. If that's the case, then 'Craig is Not Bond' folks from 2005 would have some weight in their ill opinions.

The problem is this: I just don't like how disposable things are, and with Nolan..love him or hate him, has a damn vision for his films. You can put all the fan service and window dressing all you want into a film, I just want a good film.

 

[Octoberist]

Excellent observation. This is why I expect the Nolan detractors to pop up all over the place as the reboot gets going.

And they're just gonna talk about the stuff that doesn't matter in the end: The visuals, the style, etc. It's impossible to please anyone because if the reboot pulls a more 'Burton' approach, then you'll have another group of people complaining.

 

[BestGirl]

And they're just gonna talk about the stuff that doesn't matter in the end: The visuals, the style, etc. It's impossible to please anyone because if the reboot pulls a more 'Burton' approach, then you'll have another group of people complaining.

They've already popped up from time to time on the Batman boards - people who say they're glad to move on because they want to see a more gothic Gotham, gray suit, permawhite Joker, etc. Little to no concern is ever expressed about future plots or characterization. I hope WB is thinking about the reboot much harder than the fans are. I don't want to just see the comics transplanted to film.

 

[metaphysician]

Disagree with Joker being most "popular" super-villain. Venom seems to be right now way more popular. I see tons of Venom merchandise but almost none on the Joker.

. . .your kidding, right?

Ask ten people on the street about the Joker, I guarantee nine of them know the character, and at least half of them think positively of the guy ( at *least* ).

Ask the same of Venom, and I bet you more than half won't have a clue who your talking about. Even with prompting.

 

[metaphysician]

Certain segments of Spider-Man fandom annoy me. The first two Spider-Man movies were VERY well received, both being critical successes as well as mainstream pop culture events. For a while those two movies, and Raimi, received almost nothing but praise. But no, the fans couldn't let Raimi tell the story that he had been building up to, even though he had clearly earned that right the way that Nolan has with Batman. The fans clamored for Venom to be stuffed into Spider-Man 3, and the studio granted their wish over Raimi's objections.

Then when the movie turned out subpar and with a scattered plot (something that I, and numerous other people called as soon as Venom was confirmed) these fanboys turned on Raimi. Suddenly Raimi was ALWAYS a hack. Suddenly Raimi, and even Maguire (who had been praised for nailing the role of Peter Parker) "never got" the character. Supposedly Raimi's Spidey never quipped or wisecracked, even though he did. And in the action scenes where he didn't, it was perfectly understandable since his loved ones were in danger more often than not. It wouldn't have fit the circumstances for Spidey to be making light of things, in the middle of a big dramatic scene with Mary Jane's life at stake. BTW, did Webb's Spidey even wisecrack all that much, aside from his confrontation with that one knife-wielding car thief? That one scene that was highlighted in the trailer, to assert that TASM was totally different than Raimi's 2002 movie (it was not, practically being the same movie). Because I don't remember him wisecracking in the bridge scene, or when he was fighting the Lizard with the fate of New York hanging in the balance.

Message boards do not represent the general population, which is less prone to extremes of emotion, and more loyal to past heroes. The most vocal people on a forum aren't even representative of most of the forum members. In general, certain message board fanboys love to complain. Hell, I'm complaining myself right now. It's much more enticing to rant against something online than it is to simply say that you're satisfied with something, which offers less material to write about. I'm already seeing a vocal minority of Nolan detractors complaining about how he's not using Robin, or taking the fantasy out of Batman. I expect these people to get louder several years after TDKR comes out, when every satisfied or normal person has naturally moved on. The people complaining about something years after the fact tend to be the ones with an axe to grind, and an inability to let go.

I don't think I see a single point of disagreement.