Anyone feel the Batman Trilogy won't be regarded as perfect?

[JB-the-Hunter]

Nobody but fans see it as a trilogy anyway, not in the same way they would Star Wars/LOTR.
This is what the GA thinks about the trilogy:
"The Dark Knight was awesome" "Cool, the new Dark Knight movie looks cool" and "What's Batman Begins? Oh it came before TDK? Eh whatever, looks boring"

 

[jmc]

Three films that continually get better seems like a pretty good trilogy to me.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

Nobody but fans see it as a trilogy anyway, not in the same way they would Star Wars/LOTR.
This is what the GA thinks about the trilogy:
"The Dark Knight was awesome" "Cool, the new Dark Knight movie looks cool" and "What's Batman Begins? Oh it came before TDK? Eh whatever, looks boring"

The casual moviegoer desn't dwell on a film on a daily basis years after it came out. But they remember good movies, and show up in bigger numbers for the sequel. Batman Begins was a box office hit with excellent audience polling results (people gave it a solid "A" CinemaScore grade). The hype for The Dark Knight was that it was a sequel to Batman Begins, but going all out with the Joker this time around. TDK has become the face of this franchise, but it's going way too far to say that "nobody but fans" likes BB or even knows this series is a trilogy.

 

[Leenie]

Certain segments of Spider-Man fandom annoy me. The first two Spider-Man movies were VERY well received, both being critical successes as well as mainstream pop culture events. For a while those two movies, and Raimi, received almost nothing but praise. But no, the fans couldn't let Raimi tell the story that he had been building up to, even though he had clearly earned that right the way that Nolan has with Batman. The fans clamored for Venom to be stuffed into Spider-Man 3, and the studio granted their wish over Raimi's objections.

Then when the movie turned out subpar and with a scattered plot (something that I, and numerous other people called as soon as Venom was confirmed) these fanboys turned on Raimi. Suddenly Raimi was ALWAYS a hack. Suddenly Raimi, and even Maguire (who had been praised for nailing the role of Peter Parker) "never got" the character. Supposedly Raimi's Spidey never quipped or wisecracked, even though he did. And in the action scenes where he didn't, it was perfectly understandable since his loved ones were in danger more often than not. It wouldn't have fit the circumstances for Spidey to be making light of things, in the middle of a big dramatic scene with Mary Jane's life at stake. BTW, did Webb's Spidey even wisecrack all that much, aside from his confrontation with that one knife-wielding car thief? That one scene that was highlighted in the trailer, to assert that TASM was totally different than Raimi's 2002 movie (it was not, practically being the same movie). Because I don't remember him wisecracking in the bridge scene, or when he was fighting the Lizard with the fate of New York hanging in the balance.

Message boards do not represent the general population, which is less prone to extremes of emotion, and more loyal to past heroes. The most vocal people on a forum aren't even representative of most of the forum members. In general, certain message board fanboys love to complain. Hell, I'm complaining myself right now. It's much more enticing to rant against something online than it is to simply say that you're satisfied with something, which offers less material to write about. I'm already seeing a vocal minority of Nolan detractors complaining about how he's not using Robin, or taking the fantasy out of Batman. I expect these people to get louder several years after TDKR comes out, when every satisfied or normal person has naturally moved on. The people complaining about something years after the fact tend to be the ones with an axe to grind, and an inability to let go.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Right on.

 

[Karem-Knight]

We'll see after TDKR if the Nolan trilogy can be considered "perfect" (which most signs point to it being as close as we will get to a concrete superhero trilogy in terms of quality). Eagerly awaiting the final chapter.

 

[El Payaso]

...Because of Batman Begins?

All signs and early reviews point to Dark Knight Rises being better than the Dark Knight. Many people have began to say how we will get an extremely rare perfect trilogy.

However, is there a chance many people won't think that, because of Batman Begins? It was has a lot lower score, an 85% on Rotten Tomatoes, and a paltry 61% Top Critics.

Will Batman Begins keep this Batman Trilogy from being perfect?

For me, yes. Begins will keep the trilogy as great but not perfect.

Because I hold TDK as a masterpiece of the genre and in my top 3. And I feel TDKR won't be different.

 

[Forever MS]

For me, yes. Begins will keep the trilogy as great but not perfect.

Because I hold TDK as a masterpiece of the genre and in my top 3. And I feel TDKR won't be different.

Agreed, although I feel TDKR might disappoint now...

 

[El Payaso]

Agreed, although I feel TDKR might disappoint now...

Reviews?

 

[Doc Ock]

I may be in the minority of this, but I think I like Batman Begins more than TDK. It may mean I just need a rewatch of both films back to back. Its been a little while....

 

[Venomfan]

why does it need to be regarded as perfect?

 

[jmc]

Perfection has different meaning to each person, you see it in the reviews for Rises, some are saying it's the greatest film of the series, others saying it's good but has issues. What it boils down to is fans want the rest of the world to love what they love, that some sort of validation is needed, but there's never going to be a case where 100% of people are going to love what you love, so if the series to you is perfect then what difference does it make if others don't? I could name a list of films people love that I either dislike or are indifferent to, but that's just my opinion, I don't begrudge people who enjoy those films, I'll debate those films in terms of what I feel they bring to cinema but at the end of the day if someone love films I don't I'm not going to lose sleep over it. So stop worrying about The DK Trilogy not being perceived as perfect, it's never going to be, the films are well received enough and have etched themselves in superhero film folklore forever, so just enjoy the movies.

 

[Rowsdower!]

why does it need to be regarded as perfect?

Yeah, seriously. To me, a trilogy that consists of three REALLY good movie is a perfect trilogy. There are aspects of every trilogy that most people aren't going to love, but if they like each movie individually and feel that the movies work together well enough to tell a complete story, isn't that enough?

Star Wars is regarded as a perfect trilogy, even though it has the Ewoks. And Ewoks suck, dude.

Back to the Future is regarded as a perfect trilogy, even though they had to invent silly scenarios in the last two films to try and keep the audience from noticing that George McFly was being portrayed by a different actor.

Lord of the Rings is regarded as a perfect trilogy even though... okay, well, Lord of the Rings IS just perfect.

But regardless... we've had two really good, some would say great Batman movies, and if this third one turns out to be on the same level as those two (or better), then that's perfect enough for me.

It beats two great movies and a piece of sh** conclusion (see: Spider-Man trilogy, X-Men trilogy, etc.).

 

[Donnie Darko]

This whole thread is nonsense because there is only one perfect movie in existence, and that movie is The Princess Bride.

 

[Seubs]

The only thing that really bothers me is the fact that I don't understand why Wayne is crippled at the start of TDKR. The ending of TDK gave no indication that Batman/Wayne had suffered any debilitating injuries at the films closing and I don't remember any explanation being given in TDKR either. If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

http://www.seubsworld.com

 

[Boom]

This trilogy is far from perfect, and BB is hardly the only film to blame. But then, I suppose perfection is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

The only thing that really bothers me is the fact that I don't understand why Wayne is crippled at the start of TDKR. The ending of TDK gave no indication that Batman/Wayne had suffered any debilitating injuries at the films closing and I don't remember any explanation being given in TDKR either. If I'm wrong somebody please correct me.

http://www.seubsworld.com

Especially how he seemed even better physically, AFTER getting his back broken by Bane and having to work himself back up again.

 

[ClarkLuther55]

It seems some fans have already turned on Nolan now, comparing TDKR to Spider-Man 3 or calling it a piece of crap film. In two years we're going to have a whole bunch of people whining about how Nolan "never got" the Batman world, or how

Spoiler

John Blake butchered Robin.

 

[Harley2004]

BB will drag the trilogy down a bit for me. I've never been wild about it though I don't hate it anymore.

I agree BB is the weakest one, but just in comparision to the other two. Nolan just kept raising the bar, and usually these things get worse as they go on.

 

[Leenie]

It seems some fans have already turned on Nolan now, comparing TDKR to Spider-Man 3 or calling it a piece of crap film. In two years we're going to have a whole bunch of people whining about how Nolan "never got" the Batman world, or how

Spoiler

John Blake butchered Robin.

Oh give me a break. Nolan has been taking liberties with Batman and his enemies since 2005, and people are NOW complaining about it? Oy.

As I've stated many, many times for the past 5 years, I like Spider-Man 3 (even if it was a huge downgrade from 1 & 2) ... The Dark Knight Rises is NO Spider-Man 3, in my opinion. All three of Nolan's Batman movies have been consistent in quality, I believe.

I mean, it's fine if people don't like this movie, but to now completely turn on Nolan like how fans turned on Raimi is just plain silly. If you don't like one movie in a trilogy, it's OKAY to still like the other two movies!

 

[Karelia]

I actually prefer Batman Begins over The Dark Knight. It's an epic adventure of Bruce Wayne's origins to becoming Batman. I loved it. The Dark Knight is really epic, just in a different way, same can be said about The Dark Knight Rises. They're all amazing in their own ways, and I find that to be the best kind of trilogy. All great films for different reasons.

 

[Leenie]

I actually prefer Batman Begins over The Dark Knight. It's an epic adventure of Bruce Wayne's origins to becoming Batman. I loved it. The Dark Knight is really epic, just in a different way, same can be said about The Dark Knight Rises. They're all amazing in their own ways, and I find that to be the best kind of trilogy. All great films for different reasons.

That's one thing I really enjoy about this trilogy. Each movie feels as if they can stand on their own.

 

[EML420]

I love Dark Knight and I need to watch Rises more but I like it a lot but its hard for me to call the Batman trilogy perfect because I guess im in the minorty but dont like Begins that much its a decent film a good start for sure but I cant fall in love with it like so many have I wish I could.

 

[Seubs]

Especially how he seemed even better physically, AFTER getting his back broken by Bane and having to work himself back up again.

Exactly! I can forgive the whole broken back thing because at least there's an explanation of how he got injured and recovered, despite the unrealistic speed of the recovery, but to have Wayne crippled eight years later with no explanation is just unacceptable. I hope somebody is able to explain this to me one day. The movie was still amazing though.

 

[JAK®]

They've already popped up from time to time on the Batman boards - people who say they're glad to move on because they want to see a more gothic Gotham, gray suit, permawhite Joker, etc. Little to no concern is ever expressed about future plots or characterization. I hope WB is thinking about the reboot much harder than the fans are. I don't want to just see the comics transplanted to film.

Let me tell you why.

For every anticipated film, the most base level of desires is that it will be good. A good film means good characterisation and good plotting. So it doesn't need to be said that "boy, I sure hope the film is good". That's what everyone wants.

Stuff like a gothic Gotham, a grey suit and permawhite are specifics. They feel that aspects like that are what they expect from Batman, and if those are combined with a solid film, then the film will be perfect.

And since every film strives to be good, we don't have to ask for that specifically. But since comic book movies have a history of changing things, we feel the need to make the case for why certain things should remain the same.

Do you get it now?

 

[Mr. Wayne]

Exactly! I can forgive the whole broken back thing because at least there's an explanation of how he got injured and recovered, despite the unrealistic speed of the recovery, but to have Wayne crippled eight years later with no explanation is just unacceptable. I hope somebody is able to explain this to me one day. The movie was still amazing though.

I think the point is that he quite literally has shut up shop and given up on living. If you went from being in peak physical condition and insane levels of activity (like engaging multiple armed criminals at a time every night) to sitting at home moping and doing very little physical activity your muscles would atrophy terribly. Couple that with very believable cartilage loss in the shoulders and knees and you probably do have a tough time walking. Muscles atrophy very quickly and 8 years is an eternity for muscles that are used to working to be dormant. I don't disagree that the recovery time was unrealistic (but then that's the beauty of movies) but him being "crippled" and then coming back stronger after reengaging formerly strong muscles which had atrophied is actually not far-fetched at all.