The Dark Knight Trilogy, What Went Right

[Richard Grayson]

Great acting, writing, and directing. Strong themes that were consistent with the story, a likable lead character, and fantastic villains

 

[BH/HHH]

I don't think Nolan will direct any movie if his heart isn't in it.That's what sets him apart. TDKR is a movie of such big magnitude and ambition that only a passionate director could pull it off.

I don't agree with anything you wrote and every line represents your personal preferences. We can't all get what we want, and no movie will ever please everybody. TDKR comes very close to please as many people as can realistically be pleased, so at the end of the day it was a big win for the studio, the director and the fans. Asking for much more is maybe having unrealistic expectations. I also don't like everything about the movie, but hey, if every superhero movie was treated with the same level of care, ambition and respect as Nolan treated his Batman films, believe me, we would have much better super hero movies. Better, more interesting, more daring, more revolutionary.

It doesn't all represent personal preference at all. Plot holes and bad acting are not personal preferences. But anyway I digress.

 

[King Shark]

It doesn't all represent personal preference at all. Plot holes and bad acting are not personal preferences. But anyway I digress.

No, not at all. 99% of what you pointed out is nothing more than your personal preference. No plot holes there at all. I'm not sure you really understand what a plot hole is, but your whole argument is based on pointing out things that bother you in the movie, without actually establishing where the leap in logic actually is. And some of your observations indicate an overall bad understanding of the movie as a whole, since you claim things that are simply not true, like Bane being an henchman.

It actually takes a very special kind of talent in order to not to understand that he is not an henchman, since the movie makes it more than clear that there is a very special bond between him and Talia. It actually makes it more than clear that he has a lot of power inside of the LOS and he doesn't see himself as being below anybody, hence him not respecting Talia's final request. This is not the behaviour of an henchman.

Sure, you can find things in this movie that could have been handled better. You can do the same with Man of Steel, BvS, TA, CW, Logan and pretty much every single movie.

Now, if you just wanna discuss your personal taste, i'm really not interested. But if you feel you can point out all the big plot holes of the movie and have an objective discussion regarding the movie's quality, then be my guest.

 

[BH/HHH]

No, not at all. 99% of what you pointed out is nothing more than your personal preference. No plot holes there at all. I'm not sure you really understand what a plot hole is, but your whole argument is based on pointing out things that bother you in the movie, without actually establishing where the leap in logic actually is. And some of your observations indicate an overall bad understanding of the movie as a whole, since you claim things that are simply not true, like Bane being an henchman.

It actually takes a very special kind of talent in order to not to understand that he is not an henchman, since the movie makes it more than clear that there is a very special bond between him and Talia. It actually makes it more than clear that he has a lot of power inside of the LOS and he doesn't see himself as being below anybody, hence him not respecting Talia's final request. This is not the behaviour of an henchman.

Sure, you can find things in this movie that could have been handled better. You can do the same with Man of Steel, BvS, TA, CW, Logan and pretty much every single movie.

Now, if you just wanna discuss your personal taste, i'm really not interested. But if you feel you can point out all the big plot holes of the movie and have an objective discussion regarding the movie's quality, then be my guest.

Aside from the acting and bane's dumb voice which are subjective what did I point out that was untrue?

 

[King Shark]

Aside from the acting and bane's dumb voice which are subjective what did I point out that was untrue?

Well, Bane being an henchmen is simply untrue.

Bruce's "magical brace", as you call it, is also not a plot hole. First off all, let me remind you we're talking about a movie where a Batman exists. If you have a problem with a "magical brace", then you should have a problem with everything else. Second, the movie doesn't really go into much detail about the brace's technology and why it helped him. All you see is a man who has access to SUPER advanced technology using that technology(that doesn't exist in our world) to help him. The whole concept of Batman is based on him doing things that real people in the real world couldn't do, So there's no leap in logic there.

There's also no leap in logic in Blake figuring out who Batman is. In this case, he didn't really figure it out. He created a fantasy in his head as a kid and strongly believed in it. It's no different than believing in god or ghosts. He just happened to be right. There's no plot hole here. You can say you don't like it, but that's pretty much it. I love it because it was unexpected and it is actually something that could really happen if a Batman existed. Someone could simply connect the dots, or come up with a bold theory, for whatever reason, and actually be right about it. Where's the hole?


You really didn't point out much, so there isn't much more to talk about. I agree more or less with the entire police force going into the sewers not being a great decision. It could have been handled better. You can look at that as a moment of bad writting or simply as an intended bad decision made by a character who was in desperate mode, and as you pointed out, maybe a little delirious. Either way, it's not a plot hole.

So, anything else? You don't like Bale's voice?

 

[NealKenneth]

Actually TDK does have the occasional plot hole. The worst IMO is the scene where Joker goes to the fundraiser looking for Harvey Dent and Batman ends up diving out the window to catch Rachel. Then it just cuts to the next day...Joker had the entire party held hostage and was looking for Dent? What happened after Batman left? And let's not pass over the fact that Wayne disarmed a couple of Dent's guards on the way back to his suit...am I supposed to believe they can't put two and two together and figure out Wayne is Batman?

Extremely jarring and distracting plot hole. First time I watched the film I though Nolan was doing some sort of clever thing where'd come back and explain later but it never happens.

 

[BH/HHH]

Well, Bane being an henchmen is simply untrue.

Bruce's "magical brace", as you call it, is also not a plot hole. First off all, let me remind you we're talking about a movie where a Batman exists. If you have a problem with a "magical brace", then you should have a problem with everything else. Second, the movie doesn't really go into much detail about the brace's technology and why it helped him. All you see is a man who has access to SUPER advanced technology using that technology(that doesn't exist in our world) to help him. The whole concept of Batman is based on him doing things that real people in the real world couldn't do, So there's no leap in logic there.

There's also no leap in logic in Blake figuring out who Batman is. In this case, he didn't really figure it out. He created a fantasy in his head as a kid and strongly believed in it. It's no different than believing in god or ghosts. He just happened to be right. There's no plot hole here. You can say you don't like it, but that's pretty much it. I love it because it was unexpected and it is actually something that could really happen if a Batman existed. Someone could simply connect the dots, or come up with a bold theory, for whatever reason, and actually be right about it. Where's the hole?


You really didn't point out much, so there isn't much more to talk about. I agree more or less with the entire police force going into the sewers not being a great decision. It could have been handled better. You can look at that as a moment of bad writting or simply as an intended bad decision made by a character who was in desperate mode, and as you pointed out, maybe a little delirious. Either way, it's not a plot hole.

So, anything else? You don't like Bale's voice?

It's not because he isn't even the big bad, he's working for the big bad.

Magic knee brace usnt a plot hole no, it's a less in logic.

The way Blake worked it out also a leap in logic.

You're right plot holes was a mistake by me. Leto's in logic these things are. You rather by them or you don't. For me I can accept the knee brace just about but the way Blake works out he's Batman, fantasy or not. I just can't. That was awful writing.

In any case no point going back and forth cause we won't agree.

Bale's Batvoice was fine in Begins, the sequels it was awful IMO.

 

[The Joker]

You're talking to a banned user there, BH.

 

[BH/HHH]

You're talking to a banned user there, BH.

I can't see banned users on the mobile site lol

 

[The Batman]

Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, X-Men, X-Men 2, the Donner Supermans, the Burton Batmans. To name a few- those don't count for anything?

The main thing that's changed since TDK Trilogy is the shared universe approach to superhero movies. And many would argue that films such as BB, TDK, X-2, Spider-Man 2, etc. still stack up quite well to post-MCU films.

Heck, I don't think I'd be alone in saying that I value the 2000-2012 era of the genre more than the current one we're in. Sure, when you're on the cutting edge of something there's less to compare it to, but that doesn't negate having been on the cutting edge of something.

LOL, people are so desperate to undermine what TDKT accomplished.

 

[InCali]

Well, Bane being an henchmen is simply untrue.

Bruce's "magical brace", as you call it, is also not a plot hole. First off all, let me remind you we're talking about a movie where a Batman exists. If you have a problem with a "magical brace", then you should have a problem with everything else. Second, the movie doesn't really go into much detail about the brace's technology and why it helped him. All you see is a man who has access to SUPER advanced technology using that technology(that doesn't exist in our world) to help him. The whole concept of Batman is based on him doing things that real people in the real world couldn't do, So there's no leap in logic there.

There's also no leap in logic in Blake figuring out who Batman is. In this case, he didn't really figure it out. He created a fantasy in his head as a kid and strongly believed in it. It's no different than believing in god or ghosts. He just happened to be right. There's no plot hole here. You can say you don't like it, but that's pretty much it. I love it because it was unexpected and it is actually something that could really happen if a Batman existed. Someone could simply connect the dots, or come up with a bold theory, for whatever reason, and actually be right about it. Where's the hole?


You really didn't point out much, so there isn't much more to talk about. I agree more or less with the entire police force going into the sewers not being a great decision. It could have been handled better. You can look at that as a moment of bad writting or simply as an intended bad decision made by a character who was in desperate mode, and as you pointed out, maybe a little delirious. Either way, it's not a plot hole.

So, anything else? You don't like Bale's voice?

Let's transport Rhodey to TDKR. K?

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Well, Bane being an henchmen is simply untrue.

Bane sure seemed like a henchman to me. Wasn't that the big reveal? That during almost the whole movie Bane is presented as this all powerful leader of a big army, the planner, the executor, the driving force. And then it all turns out he was just doing Talia's bidding. She was the real boss. That's what a henchman is, the loyal employee of some powerful figure engaged in nefarious or criminal enterprises.

 

[BH/HHH]

Bane sure seemed like a henchman to me. Wasn't that the big reveal? That during almost the whole movie Bane is presented as this all powerful leader of a big army, the planner, the executor, the driving force. And then it all turns out he was just doing Talia's bidding. She was the real boss. That's what a henchman is, the loyal employee of some powerful figure engaged in nefarious or criminal enterprises.

Exactly

He's been banned now though so he can't respond.

 

[metaphysician]

You know, there is space between "henchman" and "supreme leader". Even if Bane wasn't the ultimate supreme villain, he was not Talia's henchmen. He was her *general*.

 

[Slade W]

Aside from the Nolans themselves and the cast and crew, which is where the movies went right as films, part of what went right in terms of superhero adaption was there simply weren't many other quality superhero movies for this franchise to get compared to.

Some key elements of the TDK trilogy are now considered somewhat lacking compared to more modern superhero fare.

I disagree. When they came out, there were the first two Superman movies, the Burton Batman movies, the Raimi Spider-Man movies and the X-men movies. Iron-Man came out the same year as TDK and The Avengers came out the same year as TDKR.

There is a lot of evidence to suggest they still hold up with a lot of competition these days too, IMO.

TDK won the following "favourite movie of all-time poll" last August, that had a very large number of voters:

http://mashable.com/2016/08/16/fav7f.../#JnDAGe4HPOqO

It finished 57th on this Top 100 movies of all-time list. The voters were Oscar winners and movie studio chiefs e.t.c.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lis...avorite-818479

Back in August, 177 critics from all around the world voted in a 100 best movies since 2000 list, and TDK was on the list (it came 33rd.)http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/201...greatest-films


In 2012, TDKR beat The Avengers in the following poll, that had a lot of voters:

http://collider.com/top-movies-2012-poll-results/

It beat The Avengers in a poll on here:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=389345&highlight=escapist

TDKR has held its own with Civil War on a poll on here in the last year, when the hype for CW was at its highest.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=514437&highlight=tdkr

Batman Begins has also held its own on here against CW, when the hype for CW is at its highest:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=519289&highlight=civil+war

TDK is most peoples movie on Reddit:

https://beta.icheckmovies.com/lists/reddit+top+250/

BB is also beating Wonder Woman on a poll on here quite comfortably, even though the hype for WW is at its highest right now:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=530865


Affleck has received praise from fans and critics for his portrayal as Batman, and is popular, but Bale has beaten him in several polls that had a large number of voters:

https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/poll-who-is-the-best-movie-batman/

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jasminnaha...movie-opinions?utm_term=.bw6lX3ZNp#.xr7LxgzMR

http://collider.com/best-batman-actors-poll/


Overall, based on a lot of evidence of the movies still being popular, it is fair to say the movies would have done very well when faced with the superhero movies that come out these days, IMO.