The Dark Knight Trilogy, What Went Right

[Victarion]

I figured they were fighting because Bruce saw what Superman did in the beginning of the movie while he was fighting Zod. From there it consumed him and turned him into a simple-minded thrall to his prejudices. It seemed like a fairy simple but effective reason.

I was kinda split. I sympathized with Bruce to the extent that I really ****ing hated Superman in the moment where we see the citizens of Metropolis experiencing his fight with Zod. The injured people, the children going through the wreckage, the little girl whose mommy got killed in the collateral. But then there were scenes like the one where Clark calls up Martha in the middle of the night and the whole idea that he wanted to find a place for himself on Earth that also made me sympathetic to Superman.

So when the fight actually came, for me there was a lot of murkiness as to who was really in the right. Which side's the good one, which side's the bad one; this murkiness is what made the whole conflict really enjoyable for me as a viewer.

Back to the TDKT, yall remember when there were rumors of Black Mask, Deacon Blackfire, and Talia as the villains? One of the Black Mask plot synopsis was pretty freaking close to what we ended up with. This was before we found out about Bane and Catwoman. It kind of makes you wonder.

 

[King Shark]

TDK trilogy is the vision of a very talented director instead of a studio blueprint. That's what went right.

 

[Boom]

The filmmaker had a clear vision of what he wanted to do, received very little studio interference, and had the talent to pull off his vision effectively (for the most part).

 

[Osiris-Rex]

The Dark Knight trilogy had Catwoman in it. Anything Batman is also better when Catwoman is in it. The 1966 Batman movie, the Burton movies, the animated series, and of course TDKR.
(The Catwoman movie failed because they went out of their way to severe all ties to Batman to the point the character wasn't even really Catwoman anymore.)
Did I say I'm a big Catwoman fan?

On that, here's hoping that Affleck's solo Batman film, should we get there, has as little studio interference as possible, since I do think he's proven himself a great director. And if Gone Girl is any indication, he can play a tortured soul.

More important is a director who stands up to studio interference. Warner Bros. wanted to cut the no-man's land scene in Wonder Woman out of the movie. But Patty Jenkins stood her ground and it's one of the best
of many great scenes in the movie and is important in showing Wonder Woman's motivation.

Ok but what about the fact that TDKR is teh worst movie evah.

More fake news facts?

TDK trilogy is the vision of a very talented director instead of a studio blueprint. That's what went right.

That's why Wonder Woman also works. It's Patty Jenkins vision, not just a studio paint by numbers movie.

 

[BH/HHH]

I still think Rises was a misstep even if I do like the film. I have some major beefs with it and it fell into the trap of connecting the 3rd film closely with the 1st film that we see with sequels (e.g. Spider-Man 3).

Ending the series as a trilogy was always a mistake. The first two could have easily been the start of a Bond like Batman series of films. I mean I'm happy what's happened post Nolan but I still think they missed the boat on that one and I always will.

 

[BatLobster]

I think it's a 'grass is always greener' thing.

If Nolan had stepped away after TDK and someone else took over the franchise and they just kept churning out sequels, we'd still be wondering to this day "what if Nolan had completed his trilogy?" Similar to how so many of us still wonder what could've been with a third Burton Batman.

I don't disagree that Begins laid a foundation that could've worked for a larger franchise, but by the time we got to TDK, Nolan's take on the mythos was so specific that it would've just felt cheap to continue it with other directors. And even though Begins isn't technically part of the new continuity, I still feel like it's there in spirit as it explains all the "hows" and "why's of Batman that audiences now take for granted.

I think it all worked out for the best. We have a complete vision/story from one of the most notable directors of this generation that we can always go back to and enjoy, and now other directors are free to do their own interpretation that allows for more fantasy elements (within the confines of what the DCEU has established at least).

 

[King Shark]

I still think Rises was a misstep even if I do like the film. I have some major beefs with it and it fell into the trap of connecting the 3rd film closely with the 1st film that we see with sequels (e.g. Spider-Man 3).

Ending the series as a trilogy was always a mistake. The first two could have easily been the start of a Bond like Batman series of films. I mean I'm happy what's happened post Nolan but I still think they missed the boat on that one and I always will.

They didn't miss the boat on anything. They did what no other super hero franchise was able to do until this day, which was to create one of the most successful and iconic trilogies EVER, in any genre, as opposed to forcing the continuation of a story just to cash in on the success, like certain studios do, until a truly disappointing movie is finally made. Great stories come from inspiration. You can't force them. The best you can do is to create a bunch of formulatic movies that are decent enough to entertain. But that's not what Nolan's vision was all about.

 

[BH/HHH]

They didn't miss the boat on anything. They did what no other super hero franchise was able to do until this day, which was to create one of the most successful and iconic trilogies EVER, in any genre, as opposed to forcing the continuation of a story just to cash in on the success, like certain studios do, until a truly disappointing movie is finally made. Great stories come from inspiration. You can't force them. The best you can do is to create a bunch of formulatic movies that are decent enough to entertain. But that's not what Nolan's vision was all about.

In my opinion they did!

I still believe Nolan's heart wasn't in Rises like it was the first two. I think he was happy with quite a lot of sloppy editing in Rises. I still think he only did it because WB allowed him to make Inception. I definitely don't think he had a trilogy in mind when he made Begins or the Dark Knight. The third story came when he decide to do it.

 

[NotNickFury]

True, I do think that, while I like Rises, that Nolan probably didn't expect to do a third. With the first two, he was just making movies. And after the critical reception of The Dark Knight, he's expected to do another masterpiece and can't do the story he probably would've done if Heath Ledger were still alive.

That's not to put down Rises because, for all its flaws, it's still a technological marvel and I like how much of it is practical, like the opening scene, or the fact that Nolan did manage to get a ton of people for stadium scene and seamlessly weaved in others with green screen. He's still innovating cinema, despite Rises not being as beloved as Dark Knight.

 

[BH/HHH]

I know there are differing opinions with regards to Justice League Mortal. But that film kind of took from Begins a little, in that Batman had killed Ra's. That's kind of the thing I'm talking about with regards to Batman been like Bond, later instalments with new casts and intepretations would still have history of Batman and the Joker clashing like they did in the Dark Knight but you don't directly say what happened. Infact in a way it would be just like the comics.

 

[King Shark]

In my opinion they did!

I still believe Nolan's heart wasn't in Rises like it was the first two. I think he was happy with quite a lot of sloppy editing in Rises. I still think he only did it because WB allowed him to make Inception. I definitely don't think he had a trilogy in mind when he made Begins or the Dark Knight. The third story came when he decide to do it.

Ok. But objectively speaking, they didn't. Anyone can think whatever they want, but when a trilogy manages to achieve what level of success, to say it missed the boat becomes a baseless claim. And if his heart wasn't in Rises, then man, we need more heartless movies like that, because it was still a hell of a movie.

 

[hellblazer103]

Each movie stands alone, yet you can also look at it as one long story. Its a fine deconstruction of the superhero - Bruce gets a nasty taste of what happens when you start ****ing around with people that mean business in the form of the Joker. Bane and Talia gave him a look at what he could become if he didn't abandon his hero fantasy for life in the real world. To top it off, the ending was one you really felt the hero earned.

Iiiii'm just gonna stop ya right there, because , even though I loved the DK trilogy, I don't think being Batman for barely even two years and then dipping for almost a decade really counts as him " earning " that ending....

 

[King Shark]

Iiiii'm just gonna stop ya right there, because , even though I loved the DK trilogy, I don't think being Batman for barely even two years and then dipping for almost a decade really counts as him " earning " that ending....

In Nolan's reality it does.

 

[BH/HHH]

Ok. But objectively speaking, they didn't. Anyone can think whatever they want, but when a trilogy manages to achieve what level of success, to say it missed the boat becomes a baseless claim. And if his heart wasn't in Rises, then man, we need more heartless movies like that, because it was still a hell of a movie.

They didn't in terms of the trilogy was noth a critical and commercial success. But you can't tell me had Nolan had Rises be the third in a trilogy of year one stories that then a new filmmaker coming on to do the next trilogy wouldn't have at less been a financial success.

I feel Rises is a decent movie but ultimately it falls into the trap a lot of third movies fall into and it could have been so much better.

It did miss the boat in that they could have made more succesful movies in the same universe for sure.

 

[StormC]

I came to the conclusion recently that I enjoy Rises primarily as a Batman story/finale. As an actual movie, on a technical level, it's... choppy. Much more than the previous two movies. But if you're invested in the story and characters after the last two movies, it's possible to overlook that. So when I say I love TDKR, there's a bit of an asterisk to it.

Tom Hardy's Bane is also one of my favorite villains in the genre. Really, Nolan managed to pump out fantastic baddies for each movie. Probably one of the biggest reasons for its success.

 

[BH/HHH]

I came to the conclusion recently that I enjoy Rises primarily as a Batman story/finale. As an actual movie, on a technical level, it's... choppy. Much more than the previous two movies. But if you're invested in the story and characters after the last two movies, it's possible to overlook that. So when I say I love TDKR, there's a bit of an asterisk to it.

Tom Hardy's Bane is also one of my favorite villains in the genre. Really, Nolan managed to pump out fantastic baddies for each movie. Probably one of the biggest reasons for its success.

I agree, although I will always say that Bane voice was ****ing dumb. Yet even with that Hardy made him scary as ****.

 

[King Shark]

They didn't in terms of the trilogy was noth a critical and commercial success. But you can't tell me had Nolan had Rises be the third in a trilogy of year one stories that then a new filmmaker coming on to do the next trilogy wouldn't have at less been a financial success.

I feel Rises is a decent movie but ultimately it falls into the trap a lot of third movies fall into and it could have been so much better.

It did miss the boat in that they could have made more succesful movies in the same universe for sure.

TDKR is the vision of one filmmaker. It's experimental in several ways. You bring in a new director for a 4th movie, or something else within the same universe, and what do you expect him to do? To emulate Nolan's vision? Or to create something completely new? Either way, that's a perfect recipe for disaster. Cinematic universes work when the studio sets the goal of creating a bunch of movies in the next years and defines a strategy around that. One of the reasons TDKT works so well is because it is the exact opposite of that. You try to create a cinematic universe based on TDKT and you're basically going against the main principles that made it great.

Also, you say TDKR could have been so much better. Really? How much better could it actually have been? And how much better than Rises third movies usually are? I mean theoretically, anything COULD be better. And i mean ANYTHING. But historically speaking, how much better than Rises can we expect a third movie to be? You can have your very specific personal preferences. but Rises achieved as much as we could expect the third movie of a trilogy to achieve. There aren't many third movies out there that could objectively be considered much better than Rises, if ANY.

 

[BH/HHH]

TDKR is the vision of one filmmaker. It's experimental in several ways. You bring in a new director for a 4th movie, or something else within the same universe, and what do you expect him to do? To emulate Nolan's vision? Or to create something completely new? Either way, that's a perfect recipe for disaster. Cinematic universes work when the studio sets the goal of creating a bunch of movies in the next years and defines a strategy around that. One of the reasons TDKT works so well is because it is the exact opposite of that. You try to create a cinematic universe based on TDKT and you're basically going against the main principles that made it great.

Also, you say TDKR could have been so much better. Really? How much better could it actually have been? And how much better than Rises third movies usually are? I mean theoretically, anything COULD be better. And i mean ANYTHING. But historically speaking, how much better than Rises can we expect a third movie to be? You can have your very specific personal preferences. but Rises achieved as much as we could expect the third movie of a trilogy to achieve. There aren't many third movies out there that could objectively be considered much better than Rises, if ANY.

Well the Dark Knight trilogy is not without its flaws overall anyway. But Begins and the Dark Knight certainly served as a great start to what could have been an ongoing series. Rises just takes all that away by capping it all off rather prematurely imo.

The Dark Knight Rises has many problems. Some are my own personal preferences like Batman been retired at all but some are terrible film making choices. Bane's voice and the fact he's reduced to a a henchman in the films final act are two things. Nolan also got some poor performances out of Cotillard and Modine. The film has way too many characters for its story, it's overly long. It's also riddled with many leaps in logic, the magic knee brace, the way Blake figuring out Bruce is Batman, Bruce getting back to Gotham so quickly and easily, the entire police force going into the sewers based off what a clearly delirious Gordon says etc. Some things I can forgive but it asks you to forgive so much. Rises has the worst fight scenes of the trilogy too, infact some of it is laughable. Even it Tises is the standout Part III of superhero trilogies that doesn't say much at all. It is still a step down from the previous two, just like Superman III, just like Spider-Man 3 etc. I could go on but it's pointless. End of the day you're clearly happy with what we got and I'm not. We're not gonna agree on this so just agree to disagree.

Also I never said that another director should take on Nolan's aesthetics either. I'm saying if Nolan's heart wasn't in a third film then WBs could have taken the stories elsewhere and done Bond like/comic book like soft reboots where the previous stories happened but then new filmmakers take it in and put there own spin on it. I think to end the series at 3 was a mistake and that's my opinion.

 

[InCali]

What went right? BB and TDK. TDKR was okay to sorta good. Not in the same class as the first two.

 

[King Shark]

Well the Dark Knight trilogy is not without its flaws overall anyway. But Begins and the Dark Knight certainly served as a great start to what could have been an ongoing series. Rises just takes all that away by capping it all off rather prematurely imo.

The Dark Knight Rises has many problems. Some are my own personal preferences like Batman been retired at all but some are terrible film making choices. Bane's voice and the fact he's reduced to a a henchman in the films final act are two things. Nolan also got some poor performances out of Cotillard and Modine. The film has way too many characters for its story, it's overly long. It's also riddled with many leaps in logic, the magic knee brace, the way Blake figuring out Bruce is Batman, Bruce getting back to Gotham so quickly and easily, the entire police force going into the sewers based off what a clearly delirious Gordon says etc. Some things I can forgive but it asks you to forgive so much. Rises has the worst fight scenes of the trilogy too, infact some of it is laughable. Even it Tises is the standout Part III of superhero trilogies that doesn't say much at all. It is still a step down from the previous two, just like Superman III, just like Spider-Man 3 etc. I could go on but it's pointless. End of the day you're clearly happy with what we got and I'm not. We're not gonna agree on this so just agree to disagree.

Also I never said that another director should take on Nolan's aesthetics either. I'm saying if Nolan's heart wasn't in a third film then WBs could have taken the stories elsewhere and done Bond like/comic book like soft reboots where the previous stories happened but then new filmmakers take it in and put there own spin on it. I think to end the series at 3 was a mistake and that's my opinion.

I don't think Nolan will direct any movie if his heart isn't in it.That's what sets him apart. TDKR is a movie of such big magnitude and ambition that only a passionate director could pull it off.

I don't agree with anything you wrote and every line represents your personal preferences. We can't all get what we want, and no movie will ever please everybody. TDKR comes very close to please as many people as can realistically be pleased, so at the end of the day it was a big win for the studio, the director and the fans. Asking for much more is maybe having unrealistic expectations. I also don't like everything about the movie, but hey, if every superhero movie was treated with the same level of care, ambition and respect as Nolan treated his Batman films, believe me, we would have much better super hero movies. Better, more interesting, more daring, more revolutionary.

 

[The Guard]

Aside from the Nolans themselves and the cast and crew, which is where the movies went right as films, part of what went right in terms of superhero adaption was there simply weren't many other quality superhero movies for this franchise to get compared to.

Some key elements of the TDK trilogy are now considered somewhat lacking compared to more modern superhero fare.

 

[Stlogsy]

Dark Knight trilogy got the darkness and suspense right. All other DC movies before that were super corny or kitschy, DK was gritty and rough. So good

 

[BatLobster]

Aside from the Nolans themselves and the cast and crew, which is where the movies went right as films, part of what went right in terms of superhero adaption was there simply weren't many other quality superhero movies for this franchise to get compared to.

Some key elements of the TDK trilogy are now considered somewhat lacking compared to more modern superhero fare.

Spider-Man, Spider-Man 2, X-Men, X-Men 2, the Donner Supermans, the Burton Batmans. To name a few- those don't count for anything?

The main thing that's changed since TDK Trilogy is the shared universe approach to superhero movies. And many would argue that films such as BB, TDK, X-2, Spider-Man 2, etc. still stack up quite well to post-MCU films.

Heck, I don't think I'd be alone in saying that I value the 2000-2012 era of the genre more than the current one we're in. Sure, when you're on the cutting edge of something there's less to compare it to, but that doesn't negate having been on the cutting edge of something.

 

[The Joker]

They still hold their own on the popularity polls against other CBMs. Especially TDK.

 

[Steamteck]

Batman begins. That is all.