Comics Are any of you pissed at JMS?

[Marcdachamp]

what if it ends that Norman gave Gwen something to control her mind, and make her tell all those things to MJ cause he thought she would tell Peter, and none of it is true, the kids are just kids he abducted and genetically altered to age faster, and he lied to them, and they have nothing to do with Gwen at all, it was all just a ploy to torture Peter?

I'm actually thinking that may be the twist. How awesome would it be if the kids went insane after finding out that they were manipulated for years and brutally killed Norman for it? I like Norman, but I think that'd just be sweet.

Of course, then you have to ignore the DNA...

And I don't hate JMS for it. It's a good story, and I've loved what he's done thus far.

 

[DDRSkata]

GAAH. This blows SO DAMN BAD. Gwen's big impact on the mythos is that she was a really innocent, kind, pure girl that died and strengthened Peter's determination. It gave Peter even more reason to fight. Now, not only is she not dead, but she's not innocent. For what? This is like saying, "Oh, by the way, Uncle Ben never died. He just ran off to Europe with the female Doc Ock and had some kids. Now he's coming back to dump them on you." What the ****?

 

[DDRSkata]

On this we definitely agree. As unhappy as I am with what I'm seeing, I'm still confident things will turn around. Or I'm kicking JMS in the nuts.

I'm with you on that one.

 

[shinlyle]

On this we definitely agree. As unhappy as I am with what I'm seeing, I'm still confident things will turn around. Or I'm kicking JMS in the nuts.

Hell yeah!!
I have faith that the story will turn around...

*puts on Steel-toed boots*

....but I'm prepared to do some serious nut-kicking if it doesn't!!!!

 

[shinlyle]

Why can't everyone forgive Gwen? Because some people have standards and don't allow themselves to be swayed by empty cliches such as "everyone makes mistakes." Spider-Man does plenty of things a rational person wouldn't do, including risking his life for murderous scum like Carnage. Maybe a weak-minded child would think that sort of thing is noble, but in reality, Spider-Man is in fact personally responsible for every single death Carnage adds to the body count. Not by law, but by actual cause and effect. You want to add "realism" to the comic, you better get used to seeing Spider-Man as an accessory before, after, and during the fact of a lot of crimes. Spider-Man is supposed to be a nice, fluffy, wholesome fantasy, albeit tinged with death and sadness, into which even unsavory types like myself can escape to avoid the horrid reality of life. Real life includes killers and rapists that not even the law will labor to neutralize, and a sea of lovers that have so little integrity and respect that it's a miracle any relationship includes two people that actually keep their word to each other. Yeah, let's bring on the reality. There are a few threads open with all kinds of neat suggestions for that, including my suggestion: Peter Parker porking a prostitute and selling drugs to his science class in order to get some extra cash. But we'd forgive him, right?

Peter doing it with a prostitute and selling drugs to kids wouldn't happen because we know Peter. We know his past, and we can see him internalize everything he does before he actually does it.
With Gwen, we never had that luxury. Gwen was wholesome and good, but we never got to really look into her heart the way we look into Peter's If we could, then we may have seen that she was really longing for Peter, and seeing as how Peter was mister shy back in the day, then maybe she found something in the arms of another man that Peter just wasn't giving her. Should it have been in the arms of Norman freakin' Osbourne? HELL NO!!

Still, we can't undo it, and neither could Gwen. Good people do bad things. Peter once let a criminal run by and get away when he could easily have stopped him. How did that turn out? Doe sthat make Peter a bad person? No. He made a mistake, and he learned from it. Gwen made a mistake, and she learned from it as well. She tried to make things right with Peter, and she was wanting to tell him the truth. She also alienated Norman Osbourne to protect her young children.

Now, had Gwen gotten knocked up by Norman, and then ran off and started ****ing herself out on Hollywood boulevard so that she could afford an abortion, then I could understand everyone being a irate about it. But, that wasn't Gwen. She was a good, caring person, and she loved her children, no matter who was the father. So, she did the best she cold, and, had she lived, may have ended up raising them with Peter and even having some more children down the road with him.

Things just ended up the way they did. It happens.

As far as my approval of the story, JMS hasn't won that yet, but he still has a chance to win me over. A slim chance, but a chance nonetheless.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I am sorry but when I think of Gwen now I am like Peter seeing Norman on top of her and them just doing the nasty. God knows how many times it was done.

 

[shinlyle]

I am sorry but when I think of Gwen now I am like Peter seeing Norman on top of her and them just doing the nasty. God knows how many times it was done.

That's my issue: who's to say that they didn't keep this up behind Peter's back for awhile? In all honesty, how would we know? Hopefully, all will be answered soon.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I mean I know having a baby is possible after a one night stand but I dont think that was it. I seriously think she was coming back for seconds and thirds. Thats what makes me sick and I could have lived with Harry or Flash or mind control or something but not willing sleeping with him.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Because in my eyes they killed Norman story as well. I mean One rule of comics you dont have the same bad guy behined everything major with the hero's life. I mean thats not the case with Superman and Lex or Batman and The Joker, but for Marvel it is always the case hell even with X-Men the same person is always behind it.

 

[wolvie2020]

GAAH. This blows SO DAMN BAD. Gwen's big impact on the mythos is that she was a really innocent, kind, pure girl that died and strengthened Peter's determination. It gave Peter even more reason to fight. Now, not only is she not dead, but she's not innocent. For what? This is like saying, "Oh, by the way, Uncle Ben never died. He just ran off to Europe with the female Doc Ock and had some kids. Now he's coming back to dump them on you." What the ****?

I couldn't agree with you more...

I don't know why in the hell I really hold so much faith in JMS anymore,

The end of the Zeke arc sucked SO much balls, and as soon as I think he's back on track...

I dunno. It'd be a lot easier to take if Gwenny was raped.

 

[Herr Logan]

Peter doing it with a prostitute and selling drugs to kids wouldn't happen because we know Peter. We know his past, and we can see him internalize everything he does before he actually does it.
With Gwen, we never had that luxury. Gwen was wholesome and good, but we never got to really look into her heart the way we look into Peter's If we could, then we may have seen that she was really longing for Peter, and seeing as how Peter was mister shy back in the day, then maybe she found something in the arms of another man that Peter just wasn't giving her. Should it have been in the arms of Norman freakin' Osbourne? HELL NO!!

Still, we can't undo it, and neither could Gwen. Good people do bad things. Peter once let a criminal run by and get away when he could easily have stopped him. How did that turn out? Doe sthat make Peter a bad person? No. He made a mistake, and he learned from it. Gwen made a mistake, and she learned from it as well. She tried to make things right with Peter, and she was wanting to tell him the truth. She also alienated Norman Osbourne to protect her young children.

Now, had Gwen gotten knocked up by Norman, and then ran off and started ****ing herself out on Hollywood boulevard so that she could afford an abortion, then I could understand everyone being a irate about it. But, that wasn't Gwen. She was a good, caring person, and she loved her children, no matter who was the father. So, she did the best she cold, and, had she lived, may have ended up raising them with Peter and even having some more children down the road with him.

Things just ended up the way they did. It happens.

As far as my approval of the story, JMS hasn't won that yet, but he still has a chance to win me over. A slim chance, but a chance nonetheless.

There we go again. "Made a mistake." "It happens." Wake me up when you stop grasping at straws and at the same time tossing out meaningless cliches dedicated toward permissive attitudes.

 

[onomatopoeia]

Well, I'm not pissed at JMS just yet. Right now I'm excited about the controvesy and interested in the book.

At least until next issue is out I will still hold on to my naïveté. Every little thing's NOT gonna be alright--but perhaps Norman and Gwen didn't make whoopie after all. It's a lot to hope for, but specially in comics there is more than one way to conceive kids. There are still blanks to be filled in Gwen's letter and most of the "facts" come from assumptions derived from what MJ told Peter that she heard from Gwen. All I'm trusting right now is: Gwen was pregnant and gave birth to twins who also have Osborne genes.

Yep, I'm still in denial about Gwen having consensual sex with Norman.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I just want to know why if the kid is Norman's, does it look so much like Peter.

 

[Herr Logan]

I'm accepting it at face value and assuming that even if they fix some things, something irreparably bad will be left. I do this because I find the power of negative thinking has an effect on probabilities, or at least my own reaction to a negative result.

 

[shinlyle]

There we go again. "Made a mistake." "It happens." Wake me up when you stop grasping at straws and at the same time tossing out meaningless cliches dedicated toward permissive attitudes.

Why don't they just show Gwen in a damn Nun outfit everytime Peter flashes back to her? Would that please you?

I'm not "grasping at straws", kid. I'm trying to be objective. The storyline isn't over yet, and I'm trying to stay open-minded about the potential ending. JMS has gien us roughly 40 good issues of writing...I can give him the benefit of the doubt for this one questionable issue.
I think the problem everyone is having right now is that the vision of the perfect Blonde goodie-goodie has been tarnished by a bit of humanity, and some people can't grasp that.

 

[Raykel]

Nope. I think it's a great series so far and I also think it's impossible to judge a story until it's finished. There have been a million stories in a million fandoms I've loved at the outset and hated by the end, and there's been a million stories in a million fandoms where I hated the beginning only to be completely won over by the end. I think we'll be in a better position to judge after 514.

As it stands right now after 512: I'm not totally convinced yet that Norman is the father. I still suspect it's Harry after all. But if I'm wrong and it really is Norman, that's okay too. I tend to agree with Cycops on this.

Oh wait! It's his mind control on me!

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Am I pissed Does this answer your question

 

[DDRSkata]

Am I pissed Does this answer your question

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :

 

[Herr Logan]

Why don't they just show Gwen in a damn Nun outfit everytime Peter flashes back to her? Would that please you?

I'm not "grasping at straws", kid. I'm trying to be objective. The storyline isn't over yet, and I'm trying to stay open-minded about the potential ending. JMS has gien us roughly 40 good issues of writing...I can give him the benefit of the doubt for this one questionable issue.
I think the problem everyone is having right now is that the vision of the perfect Blonde goodie-goodie has been tarnished by a bit of humanity, and some people can't grasp that.

I forget when and where, but I think Dragon recently summed it up real well, what exactly goes through the minds of people who choose to defend infidelity and describe it as "humanity," "a mistake," and other such shallow descriptions. I'll refer all further bull$hit from you and your ilk (and I'm sure that there will be a lot) back to Dragon's speech.

 

[spider-jide]

I'm accepting it at face value QUOTE]

I've already done that. Its been "set in stone" if you know what i mean but that doesn't mean i've got to like it.

I'll wait and see how it plays out in the end, whatever the case, this is definately 1 for the history books.

 

[Dangerous]

Hell yeah!!
I have faith that the story will turn around...

*puts on Steel-toed boots*

....but I'm prepared to do some serious nut-kicking if it doesn't!!!!

Depends what you consider turned around.
I reckon no matter what Gwen's character will be compromised forever, and were suppossed to be gratefull for this?, not me.

 

[shinlyle]

I forget when and where, but I think Dragon recently summed it up real well, what exactly goes through the minds of people who choose to defend infidelity and describe it as "humanity," "a mistake," and other such shallow descriptions. I'll refer all further bull$hit from you and your ilk (and I'm sure that there will be a lot) back to Dragon's speech.

And I'll have you refer all your useless posts to that brick wall over there------>

 

[Herr Logan]

Depends what you consider turned around.
I reckon no matter what Gwen's character will be compromised forever, and were suppossed to be gratefull for this?, not me.

Gwen could actually be mostly or fully vindicated here, but even if she is, MJ would most likely be compromised. If Gwen at the time of telling MJ the awful "truth" was mnetally programmed or under duress or under false impressions or a clone or a life model decoy or whatever, that still leaves MJ keeping her disgusting betrayal a secret from Peter all these years. Unforgivable. If a friend of mine that had been my rival over a potential lover had won the rivalry and then cheated on that lover, you can bet I'd tell her, whether or not the cheating bastard wanted me to keep it a secret. MJ and Gwen have both disgusted me in this arc, whereas Peter's nauseating actions (or declarations of intended actions) are true to form and those I would expect-- noble but stupid.

 

[Herr Logan]

And I'll have you refer all your useless posts to that brick wall over there------>

I figured that was what I was arguing with all this time, anyway. You mean a brick wall wouldn't respond as ignorantly?

 

[shinlyle]

I figured that was what I was arguing with all this time, anyway. You mean a brick wall wouldn't respond as ignorantly?

Yeah....that's it, junior.