Comics Are any of you pissed at JMS?

[Raykel]

Am I pissed Does this answer your question

Context matters, though! That image isn't REAL. It's all in Peter's imagination. With two issues left in this arc, there's still a lot of room to debunk the story Gwen told MJ.

Although, actually, if it is Norman, that doesn't bother me. It's an interesting story either way, but I am not yet convinced it is Norman.

 

[ragingdemon155]

I dont think everything is as it seems either Raykel. I still think its Osborn but I believe there is more to this then meets the eye. Either way, JMS has finally brought some big time anticipation for ASM and has people talking about. Granted, alot of the comments are just people saying over and over "I hate JMS i hate JMS" and so on, after most of those same people were saying just an issue ago that JMS was a genious and so on. Funny how fast people change.

 

[shinlyle]

I dont think everything is as it seems either Raykel. I still think its Osborn but I believe there is more to this then meets the eye. Either way, JMS has finally brought some big time anticipation for ASM and has people talking about. Granted, alot of the comments are just people saying over and over "I hate JMS i hate JMS" and so on, after most of those same people were saying just an issue ago that JMS was a genious and so on. Funny how fast people change.

I wonder how many will be changing their minds when its all over? More than will ever admit it, I'd wager.

 

[ragingdemon155]

So true So true shinlyle

 

[Abaddon]

They couldve found a better way to give Gwen depth,post-mortem.

 

[LarryLegend]

They couldve found a better way to give Gwen depth,post-mortem.

Indeed.

 

[Herr Logan]

I was pissed at JMS before his last story arc concluded. When they brought Spider-kids into this, I automatically thought it was a desperate measure in trying to retain interest. It seems logical that JMS has a twist planned, but I always hedge my bets in everything. If I assume the worst, the only surprise can be a positive turnout. Thus, I'm pretty sure at this point that at the very least, there will be some form of permanent damage to the respectibility of one of the "good" characters. If I'm proven wrong, then "the Amazing Spider-Man" has dodged a bullet. The power of negative thinking.

 

[Happenstance]

I do think its awful what they have done to Gwens character but inspite of that im still enjoying the arc and wont be stopping reading asm after it

 

[TheAdmiral]

I was pissed at JMS before his last story arc concluded. When they brought Spider-kids into this, I automatically thought it was a desperate measure in trying to retain interest. It seems logical that JMS has a twist planned, but I always hedge my bets in everything. If I assume the worst, the only surprise can be a positive turnout. Thus, I'm pretty sure at this point that at the very least, there will be some form of permanent damage to the respectibility of one of the "good" characters. If I'm proven wrong, then "the Amazing Spider-Man" has dodged a bullet. The power of negative thinking.

And here I was thinking you were just irate all the time.

 

[spideylover89]

They couldve found a better way to give Gwen depth,post-mortem.

Yeah but whats done is done. JMS will probably come through in the end anyway because a move like this could put a very large red mark on his career. I don't think he wants "pissed off a billion Gwen fans and got kicked in the nuts by Dragon and Shinlyle while writing ASM" on his resume`

 

[Herr Logan]

And here I was thinking you were just irate all the time.

You'd be thinking right.

 

[Webhead38]

I like the general structure and themes of the story. The motivations are believable and the general layout of the reveal is done quite dramactically and paced very well. My only complaint is I wish it could have been done with different characters. The Gwen Stacy story is probably the most reworked and most revisited classic from the 70's. In short, please let the poor girl rest in peace!! Anyone who collected those issues as I did back in the early 70's are quite familiar with the motivations that drove Norman Osbourne to his final performance as the Goblin (or at least, should have been, before Marvel attempted a ridiculous reinvention in the 90's that, simply put, was very poor scripting). In my book, Norman is long dead and Gwen's death is a horrific cross Pete must carry to remind him of the sacrifices that come with being Spiderman. It's a recurring theme that has shaped the value system of our hero. You can't go back to such painful moments and reinvent that crisis and expect Peter Parker to come out as anything other than a basket case.

Applying this story to Gwen Stacy only serves to color her character in a way that diminishes her death as little more than the inevitable byproduct of falling prey to the temptations of power and wealth which also undermines her relationship with Peter. How could you possibly feel the same way about her if she truly commited these deeds? That's the point. In this day and age where every other television subplot involves the one dimensional horny house wife/girlfriend mentality it would be nice to think Gwen Stacy actually died an innocent victim, instead of a manipulating ****e. I think most of us who enjoyed Gwen for who she was in the 70's would agree, her memory should be respected, not disgraced.

 

[Raykel]

Applying this story to Gwen Stacy only serves to color her character in a way that diminishes her death as little more than the inevitable byproduct of falling prey to the temptations of power and wealth which also undermines her relationship with Peter. How could you possibly feel the same way about her if she truly commited these deeds? That's the point. In this day and age where every other television subplot involves the one dimensional horny house wife/girlfriend mentality it would be nice to think Gwen Stacy actually died an innocent victim, instead of a manipulating ****e. I think most of us who enjoyed Gwen for who she was in the 70's would agree, her memory should be respected, not disgraced.

I just don't see how she is a "manipulative ****e." She made one mistake (albeit a serious one) and she's trying to take responsibility for it as best she can and would mostly likely have come clean that night with Peter had the Goblin not intervened.

What I like about this storyline is that it makes it NOT All. About. Peter. I mean, it's his book, so yeah, it is all about him. But seeing a new dimension, where the Goblin's revenge isn't just about Peter but about Gwen getting in the way of what he wants, that strikes me as a more powerful story. And with Peter's personality, it's not like this will suddenly aleviate all his guilt over that traumatic event in his life. Look at Uncle Ben's death: he has always overplayed his responsibility for that. He will for Gwen, too. It's just nice to know that the Goblin's machinations don't always have Peter as the very episcenter.

 

[Dangerous]

Gwen could actually be mostly or fully vindicated here, but even if she is, MJ would most likely be compromised. If Gwen at the time of telling MJ the awful "truth" was mnetally programmed or under duress or under false impressions or a clone or a life model decoy or whatever, that still leaves MJ keeping her disgusting betrayal a secret from Peter all these years. Unforgivable. If a friend of mine that had been my rival over a potential lover had won the rivalry and then cheated on that lover, you can bet I'd tell her, whether or not the cheating bastard wanted me to keep it a secret. MJ and Gwen have both disgusted me in this arc, whereas Peter's nauseating actions (or declarations of intended actions) are true to form and those I would expect-- noble but stupid.

I agree about MJ her character has been wrecked also, ..hm gotta love JMS!
It's just that the damage to Gwen is so huge that this has been overlooked.
What I wanna know is what knuckleheads voted in the #512 thread that MJ betraying peter all these years would make them closer? Yeah that figures!

Even if its mind control Osborn still defiled Gwen who is dear to any true Spiderfans hearts, plus to make it worse he'll then have us believe that Gwen would not respect Peter enough to terminate the pregnancy and instead expect him to raise them. to JMS i say BLOW-
This arc is BS.

 

[Herr Logan]

I think I may have screwed up in that poll. Did the poll ask if what she was doing right now (as in, MJ coming forward and admitting to her spineless doormat of a husband that she had been a deceitful ***** for years about Gwen being a cheating **** with a murdering scumbag) or if she was right to have kept it a secret in the first place? I think I was so blinded by rage at the time I picked the wrong option. If this abomination had to happen at all (which it never, ever did), I'd prefer she came forward (rather than us knowing that she knew and knowing she didn't tell Peter). JMS either has to completely undo every last shred of bad characterization of Gwen and MJ, or he's definitely permanently damaged something.

Sweet Chocolate Christ, I mean, looking at interviews done with Mark Millar on his current run on "Wolverine," he mentions that he doesn't want to get bogged down in continuity, but what he really means is he doesn't need to go back and retell stories. I have a certain level of confidence that he'd be one of the most respectful and on-target writers on that book in many, many years, just as he was being pretty respectful on "Marvel Knights Spider-Man." Instead of demonizing a supporting cast member-- past or present-- he's going to put Wolverine under villainous mind control (yeah, it's been done plenty already, but that means it's not unrealistic) and have him do what we already know he's capable of doing: throwing down with anyone and everyone. That's the kind of writer I want sticking around for the long haul, not someone who rehashes other characters' trite themes and forces it on a continuity that has plenty of its own themes that fit perfectly, rewrites history and then tries to mitigate the true severity of Gwen's failure to act decently. I know JMS has spent a chunk of his life wandering around homeless and observing people some strata of society might deem scum, but I could sooner forgive a drug user for being a destructive and useless moron than I could a person who cheated on his or her lover in a committed relationship. This is Spider-Man, God dammit. He doesn't believe in moral gray areas very often, and so it's a bit insulting to change something fundamental in the continuity with something people of lesser standards consider to be morally gray that is far more personal than matters of life and death and crime and legitimate means. He's got little or no integrity when it comes to Spider-Man.

 

[shinlyle]

Yeah but whats done is done. JMS will probably come through in the end anyway because a move like this could put a very large red mark on his career. I don't think he wants "pissed off a billion Gwen fans and got kicked in the nuts by Dragon and Shinlyle while writing ASM" on his resume`

Oh...believe me....
*shines steel-toed boots*
...he definitely doesn't want a nad-kick from these boots!!!!

 

[Dangerous]

I think I may have screwed up in that poll. Did the poll ask if what she was doing right now (as in, MJ coming forward and admitting to her spineless doormat of a husband that she had been a deceitful ***** for years about Gwen being a cheating **** with a murdering scumbag) or if she was right to have kept it a secret in the first place? I think I was so blinded by rage at the time I picked the wrong option. If this abomination had to happen at all (which it never, ever did), I'd prefer she came forward (rather than us knowing that she knew and knowing she didn't tell Peter). JMS either has to completely undo every last shred of bad characterization of Gwen and MJ, or he's definitely permanently damaged something.

I think the poll was basically saying -Do you think MJ finally telling Peter about Gwen & Osborn (betraying him for years) will bring them closer, quite a stupid suggestion.

Sweet Chocolate Christ, I mean, looking at interviews done with Mark Millar on his current run on "Wolverine," he mentions that he doesn't want to get bogged down in continuity, but what he really means is he doesn't need to go back and retell stories. I have a certain level of confidence that he'd be one of the most respectful and on-target writers on that book in many, many years, just as he was being pretty respectful on "Marvel Knights Spider-Man."

Yeah, Millar is the only decent one of the three of 'em when it comes to continuity.
He visits spiderfan.org to make sure any villains hes gonna use for their current status etc, (take note Jenkins!)
Jenkins can write kick-ass, gritty, & funny Spidey storys, even tho the current arc on SSM is less than great, heh, but his continuity knoledge is a little shaky to say the least.

JMS gave meaning and depth to MJ again and explored Peter's purpose in a unique way, even if some found it borring I liked it.
But what he's done now, is wrong.
He has completly disrespected what has gone before him and pissed all over the memory of Gwen.
This current arc is badly written and unrealistic.

But what can we do? b-itch about it forever and be pissed off and hope the nxt writer who comes on ASM undoes the damage that JMS has done by saying that, that Gwen was a clone of Hamiltons...heres hoping.

He's got little or no integrity when it comes to Spider-Man.

True.

 

[spideylover89]

Oh...believe me....
*shines steel-toed boots*
...he definitely doesn't want a nad-kick from these boots!!!!

haha

 

[Abaddon]

Maybe Gwen had a thrresome with Harry and Norman.

 

[Chris Wallace]

To think, this was only the beginning.

 

[The Joker]

Chris, honestly why did you bump this ancient thread of yours??

Are you just trying to open up a can of worms again??

 

[Dangerous]

Damn this thread is two years old.

 

[shinlyle]

Wow...a blast from the past.

I used to be so...violent and angry.

Good to see nothing's changed!!


On topic (somewhat), I'm not so much angry at him anymore as I am dissappointed. He CAN write a great Spidey, he just doesn't. We've seen how hit and miss his stories are. It's upsetting.

I think everyone's anger has been directed towards Joe Q, at this point.

 

[Cyclops]

As it should be. After all, a writer can only do so much with his EIC breathing down his neck pushing these ******ed ideas on him.

"Ooh! Ooh! Now give him organic webshooters! Gwen had a baby with Norman! No! TWO! Yeah, this is great stuff! Okayyy..... make him sick! Put him in a coccoon! Wrist spikes! I am awesome! Nowwwww....... make him roll over! Play dead! Fetch a stick!"

 

[shinlyle]

As it should be. After all, a writer can only do so much with his EIC breathing down his neck pushing these ******ed ideas on him.

"Ooh! Ooh! Now give him organic webshooters! Gwen had a baby with Norman! No! TWO! Yeah, this is great stuff! Okayyy..... make him sick! Put him in a coccoon! Wrist spikes! I am awesome! Nowwwww....... make him roll over! Play dead! Fetch a stick!"

HA! I needed that laugh, man. Thanks!