Arrow ARROW Season 3 Episode 18 Public Enemy

[Bats1690]

Loved this episode but yes, Lance knows Roy is the Red Arrow then...? Or he'll just think Roy was both? He should know better that it's a set up.

Maybe Lance will think the real Arrow is still out there. Or will Lance still think Oliver is the Arrow? Might be interesting if they eventually work out their problems and Arrow is clear of all charges but Lance remains to know that Oliver is the Arrow but keeps it a secret.

At which point they might kill off Lance but no, they got to have him. He's a great part of what keeps the story going.

What if a scene goes like this?:

Oliver tells Lance Sara didn't want him to tell her dad that she died near Lian Yu because she told him to. And he might say: Laurel didn't want me to tell you that Sara died because you had heart problems and suffered so much already and because she didn't want to lose you.
I respected her wishes.

So Lance still claims that Arrow is a killer but then Arrow mentions to Lance that this city needs him (to stop Ras Al Ghul) and it's what Sara would want. It's what she would want both of them to do!

As it's been said, Lance clearly knows Roy isn't the Arrow, but there's nothing he can do as the evidence against Roy is far more incriminating than the evidence against Oliver. Roy was dressed as the Arrow and confessed to being the Arrow in front of Lance and multiple police officers. All Lance has on Oliver is the word from a guy who calls himself the Demon's Head and leads a League of Assassin's. That's not going to fly in court lol. Oliver also didn't confess to being the Arrow. All he did was turn himself in because there was a manhunt out for him.

So yea, there's really nothing Lance can do. His hands are tied.

 

[Loki882]

You know, this episode convinced me that Lance shouldn't be a cop anymore than Laurel should be a ADA. He cannot control his emotions, he takes it out everyone around him (which is not good when you're a cop), and he's used his badge as an excuse to pursue his personal vendetta's (because that's CLEARLY what this is) at least twice now. At the VERY LEAST, he shouldn't be out in the field investigating crimes.

 

[JC00]

Ya people that nitpick the law aspects of this show really shouldn't be nitpicking what happened at the end there.

Only evidence Quentin has would never hold up in court. Plus Oliver already took a police polygraph and passed it, which he can pull that card anytime when they don't have hard evidence the he is the Arrow. Oliver never actually admitted to being the Arrow. Roy shows up in the suit and confesses he is the Arrow and turns himself in infront of dozens of cops.

Plus then there is Laurel who will drop any charges against Oliver because of Roy's confession.

 

[Slade W]

Perhaps this is how they take Roy away from the show for a while, by putting him in jail.

 

[DrCosmic]

You know, this episode convinced me that Lance shouldn't be a cop anymore than Laurel should be a ADA. He cannot control his emotions, he takes it out everyone around him (which is not good when you're a cop), and he's used his badge as an excuse to pursue his personal vendetta's (because that's CLEARLY what this is) at least twice now. At the VERY LEAST, he shouldn't be out in the field investigating crimes.

Don't forget about his heart problem.

Unfortunately, this show has passed the point of criticism for me, because it demands so much suspension of disbelief even to believe people's emotions now. The only person on the show who's not certifiably insane and/or incredibly unqualified to do what they're doing is Diggle, and maybe Felicity on a good day. Everything else is ridiculous. Perhaps next season, if the storylines have a bit more continuity, then perhaps I might care that Quentin would be reprimanded 'in real life.'

 

[Slade W]

Don't forget about his heart problem.

Unfortunately, this show has passed the point of criticism for me, because it demands so much suspension of disbelief even to believe people's emotions now. The only person on the show who's not certifiably insane and/or incredibly unqualified to do what they're doing is Diggle, and maybe Felicity on a good day. Everything else is ridiculous. Perhaps next season, if the storylines have a bit more continuity, then perhaps I might care that Quentin would be reprimanded 'in real life.'

The show certainly seemed more consistent to me in the first season than it has in the last two seasons. I'm still enjoying it however but I do feel a small bit of disappointment that they have almost abandoned the season 1 formula entirely in the past two seasons. Season 1 was my personal favourite and I would have preferred that they built on that world using the same formula. I don't think that Roy and Laurel amongst others being added to the team has really added something to the show. I actually think that they have gotten in the way of Oliver, Diggle's and Felicity's relationship and chemistry which was so great in the first year and was a strongpoint of the show. Now a lot of time has been spent trying to fit Roy, Laurel and Thea into the team and it has become a bit too choc-a-bloc. Too many things are trying to be forced rather than be allowed to grow organically.

Perhaps I am in the minority here but I thought that Thea, Laurel, Tommy, Moira, Diggle and Felicity amongst others in season 1 grounded the show and brought a bit of realism to it. I could relate to them. They seemed like normal and believable people that you would see in real life whilst they were living in this crazy world. I do not think anyone has replaced Tommy or Moira and now Thea and Laurel have joined the heroes and are no longer believable, grounded characters and because of them taking up more time we do not get to see Diggle or Felicity ground the show like they did before (as an aside, I liked Tommy and Laurel together and I thought they worked well with each other and were good for the show. I don't know if that is just me. IMO the Roy/Thea relationship is not as strong and not as interesting as theirs was and it has not being a great replacement). I know its a superhero show and it is not meant to be full of believable characters but I thought that what made this show stand out from other superhero shows/films was the grounded nature of it and how it was realistic (or as realistic as you could get for a superhero show). It is becoming more and more like other superhero shows/films now with lots of superheroes in it and is focusing more and more on special effects rather than on the story like they did in season 1. I think what would be best for the show would be to get rid of some of the heroes and bring in more realistic characters to replace Tommy and Moira and get back to its roots in season 1 and focus more on making a great story and character development over special effects and relationship drama amongst other changes that could be made. Just my opinion of course. All that said, I am still loving the show.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Yeah, I agree... they have so many characters now but it seems like they do so little with them. I thought we'd see more of Roy becoming a worthy sidekick/partner this year but he's pretty much been sidelined to include a bunch of dumb sh** with Ray Palmer. And Diggle hasn't gotten to do very much either.

Speaking of Diggle, and all the characters really, given that in this universe you have a character who can hack into anything, you'd think that the writers would realize that theoretically, someone else could do the same thing and tap into Felicity's and Oliver's systems. Therefore, it's probably not a good idea for the team to constantly be using their real names when they talk to each other via their communicators. And Diggle should, you know, probably wear a mask once in a while when he helps Ollie out.

 

[Loki882]

Well that's the thing, the DO realize that. Clock King hacked into their systems last season, and Malcolm was spying on them via a hidden camera during the Brick arc. Actually that makes it worse.

 

[Kster95]

Alright episode. Wasnt that good.

 

[DrCosmic]

The show certainly seemed more consistent to me in the first season than it has in the last two seasons. I'm still enjoying it however but I do feel a small bit of disappointment that they have almost abandoned the season 1 formula entirely in the past two seasons. Season 1 was my personal favourite and I would have preferred that they built on that world using the same formula. I don't think that Roy and Laurel amongst others being added to the team has really added something to the show. I actually think that they have gotten in the way of Oliver, Diggle's and Felicity's relationship and chemistry which was so great in the first year and was a strongpoint of the show. Now a lot of time has been spent trying to fit Roy, Laurel and Thea into the team and it has become a bit too choc-a-bloc. Too many things are trying to be forced rather than be allowed to grow organically.

Perhaps I am in the minority here but I thought that Thea, Laurel, Tommy, Moira, Diggle and Felicity amongst others in season 1 grounded the show and brought a bit of realism to it. I could relate to them. They seemed like normal and believable people that you would see in real life whilst they were living in this crazy world. I do not think anyone has replaced Tommy or Moira and now Thea and Laurel have joined the heroes and are no longer believable, grounded characters and because of them taking up more time we do not get to see Diggle or Felicity ground the show like they did before (as an aside, I liked Tommy and Laurel together and I thought they worked well with each other and were good for the show. I don't know if that is just me. IMO the Roy/Thea relationship is not as strong and not as interesting as theirs was and it has not being a great replacement). I know its a superhero show and it is not meant to be full of believable characters but I thought that what made this show stand out from other superhero shows/films was the grounded nature of it and how it was realistic (or as realistic as you could get for a superhero show). It is becoming more and more like other superhero shows/films now with lots of superheroes in it and is focusing more and more on special effects rather than on the story like they did in season 1. I think what would be best for the show would be to get rid of some of the heroes and bring in more realistic characters to replace Tommy and Moira and get back to its roots in season 1 and focus more on making a great story and character development over special effects and relationship drama amongst other changes that could be made. Just my opinion of course. All that said, I am still loving the show.

I feel you. I think another part of what Season 1 so great is that underdog factor. Team Arrow was constantly with their back against the wall. Constantly outmanned and outgunned. Constantly losing in order to gain small victories. They were open, raw, which created conflicts without it being dramatic.

I think they could have done that, especially in this season, the League could and should be soundly trouncing them, infiltrating everything. But alas, Malcolm. Perhaps the less said about that the better.

I think Sin can help replace Tommy or Moira in a powerful way, as can Lyla and lil Sara in another. I think there's room in Oliver's life for his son and babymama, which would be an interesting newish thing to happen. Detective McKenna was a step in the right direction. But I think the 'voices' that are missing are: non-super guy and non-super older person. There's no middle aged people around. As is, Diggle's the elder statesman and he's like 35.

I think bringing Walter Steele back in as the 'Lucius Fox' would be a great idea. It was great to see him for that one moment a few episodes ago. He kinda fills both those roles. Giving us more Sin/eyes on the street and Lyla from the retired angle could give the show a bit more balance, a bit more reality. Could be nice.

As for a good relationship... I don't know if I can help with that one. I like Roy and Thea, but they don't have anything to talk about, apparently. Neither do Diggle and Lyla, though they could, since Lyla's not very defined as yet.

Yeah, I agree... they have so many characters now but it seems like they do so little with them. I thought we'd see more of Roy becoming a worthy sidekick/partner this year but he's pretty much been sidelined to include a bunch of dumb sh** with Ray Palmer. And Diggle hasn't gotten to do very much either.

Speaking of Diggle, and all the characters really, given that in this universe you have a character who can hack into anything, you'd think that the writers would realize that theoretically, someone else could do the same thing and tap into Felicity's and Oliver's systems. Therefore, it's probably not a good idea for the team to constantly be using their real names when they talk to each other via their communicators. And Diggle should, you know, probably wear a mask once in a while when he helps Ollie out.

Ha! I forgot about Diggle's one-off ski mask. Take him off the list too then. At least he's not crazy though.

 

[Slade W]

I feel you. I think another part of what Season 1 so great is that underdog factor. Team Arrow was constantly with their back against the wall. Constantly outmanned and outgunned. Constantly losing in order to gain small victories. They were open, raw, which created conflicts without it being dramatic.

I think they could have done that, especially in this season, the League could and should be soundly trouncing them, infiltrating everything. But alas, Malcolm. Perhaps the less said about that the better.

I think Sin can help replace Tommy or Moira in a powerful way, as can Lyla and lil Sara in another. I think there's room in Oliver's life for his son and babymama, which would be an interesting newish thing to happen. Detective McKenna was a step in the right direction. But I think the 'voices' that are missing are: non-super guy and non-super older person. There's no middle aged people around. As is, Diggle's the elder statesman and he's like 35.

I think bringing Walter Steele back in as the 'Lucius Fox' would be a great idea. It was great to see him for that one moment a few episodes ago. He kinda fills both those roles. Giving us more Sin/eyes on the street and Lyla from the retired angle could give the show a bit more balance, a bit more reality. Could be nice.

As for a good relationship... I don't know if I can help with that one. I like Roy and Thea, but they don't have anything to talk about, apparently. Neither do Diggle and Lyla, though they could, since Lyla's not very defined as yet.

I completely forgot about Walter. Bringing him back would be a great idea, he was a good character. That is a very good point about the underdog thing. In season 2 Al-Owal and the other LOA members seemed like a completely different animal compared to what the team had faced before and a cut above anything that Oliver had come up against. Out of the team only Oliver and Sara looked liked they stood a chance and that was only just. Even though Slade was the main villain and Malcolm was lurking in the shadows, the LOA seemed like they were above all of that and everyone in Starling were insects in comparison. They seemed like a much greater threat that could destroy the city easily if they wanted to and a force that Slade and Malcolm would be no match against. Now they are being beaten way too easily and not just by Oliver but by Roy, Diggle (with weapons) and even Laurel.

They certainly could have presented the League as this undefeatable enemy that only Oliver and Merlyn stood a chance against and could have made a big deal out of every little victory against them. Laurel and Roy could have helped in different ways other than fighting. Now I get the impression that the only person in the league that Oliver cannot beat is Ra's and his eventual victory over him would have been greater had it seemed like Oliver worked his way up from beating low level members to what at once should have seemed like an impossible task of beating higher ranked ones rather than from the start of the season being 2nd only to Ra's (and tbf being able to lose to Nyssa from time to time like he did in "The Magician").These are supposed to be guys whose lives are dedicated to fighting (some even from a young age), they should not be losing so easily.

That said, like I mentioned in my previous post, I am still really enjoying this season despite my post being quite rant-like. Those are just things that I personally think would have made the season better. Arrow is not the only show to at one stage present bad guys as being impossible to beat only to be beaten by the heroes lesser accomplices with ease shortly after. The show is still excellent in my eyes and is the best superhero show on TV and is on par with The Dark Knight Trilogy for the best live action superhero adaption IMO.

 

[regnak]

People need to remember that several LoA members we saw last season were terrible. Like the first one Sara killed in 1.5 seconds the one Lance shot. They aren't all martial arts masters, there are fodder members as well. Those are probably the ones Ras kills for practice.

 

[dude stannis]

The entire escape from the police sequence was amazing. Team Arrow being completely out of it's depth against the League is fantastic.

The nanotech stuff gives me hope Ray wont be a cheap Iron Man knock off for too much longer.

But I still wanted to punch my TV with the Olicity stuff as minor as it was. They've done so well in rehabilitating Laurel into a likeable character, then why, why do they have to drag Felicity down?

 

[Mikelus]

I really liked the hopelessness of the situation,where things just keep going from bad to worse. I admit,I was ready to punch the TV when Ollie was publicly outed. I really hate when a secret I.D is blown and I expected there was no way out of this one. But! Finally,this show actually rose beyond my expectations and gave an interesting "reset" to this sticky situation.

The flashbacks were very good. I liked seeing Celina Jade again,although I do feel she's a bit wasted here.I'd prefer she came to Starling in the present for this interaction. I knew Ollie's tattoo would do him in.t: So,Masao's son didn't die while in Ollie's care.Nice to have the expectation subverted there.

Smallville's Oliver Queen went public, Arrow could do the same as a way for Oliver to gain the public's trust and protect his reputation from potential Arrow impersonators. On Akio, obviously he didn't die with Oliver, otherwise he would feel guilty about it and his relationship with Maseo and Tatsu destroyed.

Also I had to laugh when they were taking on the League on the roof. So, let me get this straight. The previous Episode Oliver didn't take Roy with him, because he was facing the League. And it made sense. The members of the League are some of the most dangerous and well trained assassins on the planet. And Roy wouldn't have stood a chance. Even Sara and Oliver together, had to run at one point, because the League are just that good. But this Episode, he takes Laurel and Roy with him. Laurel as we've seen is pretty much still an amateur, and Roy isn't on Oliver's level yet. But for some reason both of them aren't lying in pools of their own blood. Heck, Roy alone actually takes on 2 assassins at the same time. And Laurel stands her ground without having a blade shoved through her throat within the first 10 seconds of the fight.

Yeah, it didn't make sense, it makes Oliver a bit fickle... Guggenheim should stop writing and hire better writers if they want Season 4 to be much better than this messy season.

These kinds of stories always make me wonder, and maybe this is an entirely different discussion but: if this were real life, would we as the public and law enforcement really be so cruel towards people who are clearly saving lives and helping people? Yes, technically vigilantism is against the law but does it mean nothing when you've clearly demonstrated that your helping people? How many times has Ollie saved Lance's life?

In real life he would be a wanted man for all the people he has killed, and either get life in prison or the death penalty, same for Helena. But we have to let it go, you can't enjoy these shows if you take them too seriously.

 

[Nathan]

They certainly could have presented the League as this undefeatable enemy that only Oliver and Merlyn stood a chance against and could have made a big deal out of every little victory against them. Laurel and Roy could have helped in different ways other than fighting. Now I get the impression that the only person in the league that Oliver cannot beat is Ra's and his eventual victory over him would have been greater had it seemed like Oliver worked his way up from beating low level members to what at once should have seemed like an impossible task of beating higher ranked ones rather than from the start of the season being 2nd only to Ra's (and tbf being able to lose to Nyssa from time to time like he did in "The Magician").These are supposed to be guys whose lives are dedicated to fighting (some even from a young age), they should not be losing so easily.

The League was so formidable in Season 2. Now they pretty much turned into Putties from Power Rangers. A few Episodes earlier, Roy and Thea got their asses handed to them by DJ dukee. And he was unarmed. Now Roy takes on 2 League members, even nails some with his arrows before the fight even started, and even Laurel is doing fine. With this level of inconsistency, it's just hard for me to enjoy the show.

 

[Loki882]

Not to mention Oliver so effortlessly taking down Ra's daughter/heir (no, still not letting that one go). And Oliver/Diggle plowed through like ten of them really easily only a few episodes ago. The LOA are as strong or as weak as the plot needs them to be at the time.

 

[Silliminite]

Arrow isn't as compelling as it used to be, but at least this episode was very entertaining.

 

[Doc Vape]

Not only is the league dumbed down but so is Laurel, I could have sworn back in season 1 she was able to hold her own very well against multiple attackers, now she can't, or has to be re-branded.

Bring back Walter, we need some British on the show


Show could simply be suffering from some trace residual after effects of having Summer Glau on for a few episodes

 

[Golgo-13]

I find the flashbacks to be very lackluster this season, compared to the island stuff.

 

[kane9321]

I love u nyssa...only reason why i'm watching this awful season

THIS SHOW IS REALLY GETTING HARD TO WATCH

 

[kane9321]

I wonder how many times they have rehearsed this? lol

Who needs the wimpy fall back trust test when it is all about jumping off of buildings and catching the other person?

I was hoping for a laurel death ..but i wasnt that lucky

 

[DrCosmic]

I wonder how many times they have rehearsed this? lol

Who needs the wimpy fall back trust test when it is all about jumping off of buildings and catching the other person?

It took me a second to realize... wait... how is she... oh... that's the plan!?

 

[Marvin]

The show certainly seemed more consistent to me in the first season than it has in the last two seasons. I'm still enjoying it however but I do feel a small bit of disappointment that they have almost abandoned the season 1 formula entirely in the past two seasons. Season 1 was my personal favourite and I would have preferred that they built on that world using the same formula. I don't think that Roy and Laurel amongst others being added to the team has really added something to the show. I actually think that they have gotten in the way of Oliver, Diggle's and Felicity's relationship and chemistry which was so great in the first year and was a strongpoint of the show. Now a lot of time has been spent trying to fit Roy, Laurel and Thea into the team and it has become a bit too choc-a-bloc. Too many things are trying to be forced rather than be allowed to grow organically.

Perhaps I am in the minority here but I thought that Thea, Laurel, Tommy, Moira, Diggle and Felicity amongst others in season 1 grounded the show and brought a bit of realism to it. I could relate to them. They seemed like normal and believable people that you would see in real life whilst they were living in this crazy world. I do not think anyone has replaced Tommy or Moira and now Thea and Laurel have joined the heroes and are no longer believable, grounded characters and because of them taking up more time we do not get to see Diggle or Felicity ground the show like they did before (as an aside, I liked Tommy and Laurel together and I thought they worked well with each other and were good for the show. I don't know if that is just me. IMO the Roy/Thea relationship is not as strong and not as interesting as theirs was and it has not being a great replacement). I know its a superhero show and it is not meant to be full of believable characters but I thought that what made this show stand out from other superhero shows/films was the grounded nature of it and how it was realistic (or as realistic as you could get for a superhero show). It is becoming more and more like other superhero shows/films now with lots of superheroes in it and is focusing more and more on special effects rather than on the story like they did in season 1. I think what would be best for the show would be to get rid of some of the heroes and bring in more realistic characters to replace Tommy and Moira and get back to its roots in season 1 and focus more on making a great story and character development over special effects and relationship drama amongst other changes that could be made. Just my opinion of course. All that said, I am still loving the show.

I think season one of this show is heavily underrated. I remember how harshly the show was bashed prior to airing, then during the course of that one season it was deemed gem.

I personally think Ollie against the world was a huge part of what got me into the daily drama. Every time I see the 'arrow cave' filled with more than 3 people these days, when it's even 7 or more I just shake my head. It kinda reminds me of the diff between blade one and his last one. I'm just a big fan of a hero doing his struggle ala year one vs the entire batfamily and such. Man they need to clear out that cave.

A few more things...
Giving half of your story time to the mis adventures of Brandon Routh in his career rebirth is beyond irksome. Just thinking on how much time this season I've seen of this guy and his stuff and quanum processors and felicity time and so forth...go away already. Then there is this weird Canary stuff right now. The canary taking time away from Arrow used to be shrouded in mystery and bigger things and guilt and now it's just Laurel and her talk and her needing me to believe ninjas can't take her head of her shoulders..Canary and the never fun Laurel stuff has become one element on this show and it needs to get to where it's going in a hurry imo. Her being the dependable (metahuman)ally she is in all her other media.
Then there is his sister, like Laurel this presence has been there since day one but now it's also taken on this more time consuming in costume portion of the show. People used to be able to tune out during the out of costume stuff but his sister is right in there now, I assume her story ends in death...
Then there is Roy, dear god would these producers just commit to having this poor kid shine for once. They are taking the side kick in training thing too far imo. First Nyssa owns him, then the Evil LOA boyfriend, then cupid, then when arrow's gone more nonsense, every time I sit there thinking this will be the moment when he really really steps up but it never comes. Maybe they are finally doing that now but I have a feeling it really won't be the saving of the day.
Lastly there is the flashback stuff. This element was always the ace in the hole for the show imo. Even if a season one ep was lacking you could depend on that unfolding mystery to just keep the pace really flying. In season two it started to lose it's edge for me but what's going on right...it's hurting.
I'd mention the SS but really I'm indifferent on that.

Anyways I really 'dig' the show and if only one of these modern shows could be on today I'd vote for this one but I can see why people are starting to not love it. At least not use it to bash the DCCU anymore. I do see alot of hyperbole though, but it's to be expected of fans. It needs to play to it's strengths, such as how it can have the best fight scenes for they are so very grounded in premise vs racked with logic errors and godmode heroes playing games.

I still think the mid season finale is an example of why this show is one of the best on tv and none of the people that are supposedly done with it were saying much during that moment.

I also think the pacing of each episode is very much appreciated. Half and hour in to this very ep and I turned and told my friend that would be about 3 eps of walking dead plot, especially if they involved a scene of them folding their clothes. Stuff really moves on shows like this(and flash and others) and it's greatly appreciated.

 

[Loki882]

I did like Nyssa coming in to save her new girl-crus...I mean Laurel. She's like some kind of ridiculously badass and gorgeous guardian angel or something.

 

[Kar]

Perhaps this is how they take Roy away from the show for a while, by putting him in jail.

Leading to Waller springing him out and recruiting him for the Suicide Squad so now he can REALLY become Arsenal.