Arrow Arrow Season 3 Episode 20 ""The Fallen"" Discussion Thread

[Herolee10]

As I've said before,the problem with the Ray romance,is that they never for a moment took it seriously. Everyone (including the characters in the damn show) knew Felicity was in love with Ollie and would be back whenever he snapped his fingers. Felicity looks bad for stringing Ray along. Ollie never really felt what it was like to lose Felicity, since she was barely out of his sight the whole time. It was a promising storyline that never took off,because they never had the guts to cut the cord and have the two of them actually apart for fear of a shipper revolt.

Agreed.

Heck, even when she was going out with Ray, she was always sending signals to Oliver where you could tell that she would leave Ray in a heartbeat if Oliver would choose to finally open up to her.

This less than flattering trait was also made apparent back in the second half of Season 2, when Oliver and Sara had momentarily rekindled their romance with each other, where you could see that Felicity still had a thing for him and would probably have no problem being with him if he had initiated something back then as well.

Overall, the producers wasted a lot of time trying to develop a thing between Ray and Felicity only to drop it within a flash (pun not intended) when they felt it was the right time for Felicity and Oliver to finally sleep with each other.

That wasted time could have easily been used for something better, like giving it to Roy who they knew was going to be leaving this season.

 

[DCMarv37]

I wonder if the writers/showrunners are well aware of how much better & more likeable they've made Laurel this season - especially after the horribly crap 'lied-then-finally-told-Dad-about-Sara'd-death' storyline.

Thus - to keep pandering to Olicity (& Felicity) - they film scenes with her, but when it comes to final editing, they cut important scenes [(possible scene for her at the hospital with the team) airport goodbye - not going to NP at all] out for the final televised product. If not for Felicity going to tell her about Oliver being gone, I would have forgot Laurel was a part of the team or show at all.

 

[luis4u]

Marc, we were once said that Thea was like a "little sister" to Laurel. So could you tell me why she wasn't aware of what happened to her? And why did you cut off the scene that she's in the airport with the rest?


marcguggenheim answered:
Both your questions have the same related answer: Each episode is only 42 minutes long. That means that each week, we have to make hard choices about what to include and what to leave out, what to film and what to cut. In the case of Laurel finding out about Thea, that would mean at least one additional scene where Laurel had to be told about Thea – which means a whole scene about a character getting information the audience already has. It’s not efficient. Similarly, the airport scene was just cut for time. It happens to all the characters and isn’t a reflection of anything other than our time limitations.

 

[Dninx64]

I wonder if the writers/showrunners are well aware of how much better & more likeable they've made Laurel this season - especially after the horribly crap 'lied-then-finally-told-Dad-about-Sara'd-death' storyline.

Thus - to keep pandering to Olicity (& Felicity) - they film scenes with her, but when it comes to final editing, they cut important scenes [(possible scene for her at the hospital with the team) airport goodbye - not going to NP at all] out for the final televised product. If not for Felicity going to tell her about Oliver being gone, I would have forgot Laurel was a part of the team or show at all.

I doubt they know since it's obvious Olicity's fans are their first concern.
I can only hope they can refocus for next season because if Season 4 is a repeat of Season 3, it's not going to be good.

 

[DCMarv37]

Marc, we were once said that Thea was like a "little sister" to Laurel. So could you tell me why she wasn't aware of what happened to her? And why did you cut off the scene that she's in the airport with the rest?


marcguggenheim answered:
Both your questions have the same related answer: Each episode is only 42 minutes long. That means that each week, we have to make hard choices about what to include and what to leave out, what to film and what to cut. In the case of Laurel finding out about Thea, that would mean at least one additional scene where Laurel had to be told about Thea – which means a whole scene about a character getting information the audience already has. It’s not efficient. Similarly, the airport scene was just cut for time. It happens to all the characters and isn’t a reflection of anything other than our time limitations.

Standard answer from MG, but considering her no-show during the 'Roy goodbye' scene and her missing scenes this week (to save time), why not just save time and answer that its tempting to just cut the Laurel character loose altogether, so the all-important Olicity can get as much unwatchable screentime as possible.

 

[batdude]

I don't really believe this. Yes, the episodes probably have to be the same length, but it wouldn't kill them to cut an Olicity scene or two. Look, I like Felicity, but in no way should she be able to stand up to RA's AL GHUL. the old Batman fan in me just can't buy it It's just weird.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Then how about including her in the hospital scene? It's common sense to include her in some scenes.

 

[Snow Queen]

Then how about including her in the hospital scene? It's common sense to include her in some scenes.

You're operating on the incorrect assumption that the writers have any.

 

[Dninx64]

Marc, we were once said that Thea was like a "little sister" to Laurel. So could you tell me why she wasn't aware of what happened to her? And why did you cut off the scene that she's in the airport with the rest?


marcguggenheim answered:
Both your questions have the same related answer: Each episode is only 42 minutes long. That means that each week, we have to make hard choices about what to include and what to leave out, what to film and what to cut. In the case of Laurel finding out about Thea, that would mean at least one additional scene where Laurel had to be told about Thea – which means a whole scene about a character getting information the audience already has. It’s not efficient. Similarly, the airport scene was just cut for time. It happens to all the characters and isn’t a reflection of anything other than our time limitations.

And yet the sex scene went on for one minute too long.

 

[b_boy]

Gotta say this was the first Arrow episode since the begining that I fast foward some parts (like ten minutes)...

I love Barrowman but when he was at the hospital I fully expected Oliver to just throw him out of the window, like really, instead he was just there like it was some sort of accident that put Thea on that state. And then he just takes Malcon with him because... well, I can't really understand why. Amell did a good acting job on the hospital scene but I couldn't really care at all for him because all of the time I kept remembering that Nyssa was going to kill Malcon in episode four and everything would be solved. No Ras after Oliver, Thea, Sara's death avenged etc etc, but one decision after another made by Oliver lead to all of this and yet there is Malcon "taking care of Thea"....

Won't comment on Olicity, I think it has been said enough.

I really really hope that Arro follows Angel's series, they had a good first season, a great second season and then the third season was really hard to watch, but it laid all the work to an amazing fourth season (altough the ratings droped a good amount from the third to fourth season if I remember correctly) but it was an amazing season 4. Here's hope for Arrow...

 

[Lencho01]

Marc, we were once said that Thea was like a "little sister" to Laurel. So could you tell me why she wasn't aware of what happened to her? And why did you cut off the scene that she's in the airport with the rest?


marcguggenheim answered:
Both your questions have the same related answer: Each episode is only 42 minutes long. That means that each week, we have to make hard choices about what to include and what to leave out, what to film and what to cut. In the case of Laurel finding out about Thea, that would mean at least one additional scene where Laurel had to be told about Thea – which means a whole scene about a character getting information the audience already has. It’s not efficient. Similarly, the airport scene was just cut for time. It happens to all the characters and isn’t a reflection of anything other than our time limitations.

Huh? We didn't get scenes of Diggle, Felicity, and Malcolm learning what happened. They all just showed up at the hospital.

 

[zenith16]

Huh? We didn't get scenes of Diggle, Felicity, and Malcolm learning what happened. They all just showed up at the hospital.

she was an after thought to them man their focus was the triangle making sure Oliver had sex with felicity this episode. That was the all important focuse beside thea & the pit. the latter was sorta secondary in their minds too

At least Laurel will have her time. which is more the Roy the character & his actor ad fan's that wanted see more find out about his past & more will ever have. cause the writers couldn't bothered with where their focus is.

Let's just be happy Laurels being developed at all.

 

[Darkness Falls]

the olicity stuff really brought the episode down for me

 

[DrCosmic]

For me its the first time I really enjoyed Olicity. It took 20 eps, but someone actually showed some initiative.

 

[Kar]

Maseo's character has been very confusing to me. Present Maseo, not Past Maseo. I think maybe it'll make sense when his reasoning for joining the league comes out. He goes from working for Ra's, to secretly helping Ollie, to being against Ollie again, even threatening to kill him ("Public Enemy") if he doesn't become the new Ra's (which I don't think Ra's would have liked...but whatever) to helping Ollie again. I also wonder why Oliver didn't even consider asking for Katana's assistance in helping save Thea like they did with him (I know Maseo probably wouldn't have allowed it but you think Ollie's mind would have went there first)

 

[MysticSkye]

It was nice to see Olicity finally together, it's been a long time coming.

 

[Human Torch]

So where do they go from here next season? Are they going to stay a couple? Is that likely to kill the tension and subsequently the shipper interest , as is usually the case in these situations?

 

[KillerMcQueen]

For me its the first time I really enjoyed Olicity. It took 20 eps, but someone actually showed some initiative.

The problem with it for me this episode wasn't necessarily the execution, with the exception of Felicity seeming kinda cold in the Ray scene and the awkwardly long love scene, I admit it's probably the best they've handled it all season, I really enjoyed Nable's monologue about his past in his scene with Felicity, the problem for me is that I'm simply beyond tired with the Oliver/Felicity relationship.

 

[Herolee10]

Is that likely to kill the tension and subsequently the shipper interest , as is usually the case in these situations?

One could easily argue that the tension and interest in them as a pair has already been killed from the way things have been handled this season

 

[DOBSON10]

Stupid. I'm trying to think of something more productive to say but I just can't. I'm leaning towards giving up on this show.

 

[Slade W]

Edit: Wrong thread

 

[DCMarv37]

So where do they go from here next season? Are they going to stay a couple? Is that likely to kill the tension and subsequently the shipper interest , as is usually the case in these situations?

Unfortunately, if anything, its going to ramp up before it ever dies down.

Now that they've had sex, the 'Oliciters' are gonna want more sex and for them to be together forever - which means wanting (at least) 15 of the allotted 42 minutes of each episode devoted to Olicity.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why was there such a long sex scene? What purpose did that serve? They could've at least just shown them kissing, and then if they really wanted them to do the deed, just cut away and let it be implied. That way it wouldn't have dragged.

It wasn't sexy at all but just cringe worthy. If this were more adult, a steamy soundtrack could've suddenly started playing. Maybe Kenny G's Songbird or Madonna's Justify My Love. Then we'd get a long sex montage showing them in various positions with Felicity panting before they finally cuddle in each other's arms and release some oxytocin. Then we'd find that even more scenes have been left on the cutting room floor to allow for this gratuitous vital, not-to-be-missed segment that is completely integral to the plot.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Why was there such a long sex scene? What purpose did that serve? They could've at least just shown them kissing, and then if they really wanted them to do the deed, just cut away and let it be implied. That way it wouldn't have dragged.

It wasn't sexy at all but just cringe worthy. If this were more adult, a steamy soundtrack could've suddenly started playing. Maybe Kenny G's Songbird or Madonna's Justify My Love. Then we'd get a long sex montage showing them in various positions with Felicity panting before they finally cuddle in each other's arms and release some oxytocin. Then we'd find that even more scenes have been left on the cutting room floor to allow for this gratuitous vital, not-to-be-missed segment that is completely integral to the plot.

My thoughts pretty much, the scene felt like I'd just walked in on something, but instead of leaving, just stood there and watched. Was taken aback by how long it went on. I get the feeling the episode was the writers venting a bit on the whole Olicity thing, I doubt it'll ever get THAT extreme ever again on the show.

 

[Dark Raven]

Why is there a trampoline at the bottom of the Lazarus Pit?