Arrow Arrow season 4 episode 15 "Taken"

[chamber-music]

Vixen was awesome I need her to come back again and again

I could see her being on a future season of Legends Of Tomorrow

It's one thing to have romance on a show, let alone for it to be an important factor as well.

But it's another thing when you present such a terribly written romance, involving such a horrible woman, and try to shove it down viewers's throats as though it's something legit.

I agree.

Soap opera Romances are fine and a staple of the comic book genre. The problem here is the writing.

I don't see anywhere near as much complaining about romantic relationships comic book shows such as Supergirl, The Flash, Agents Of Shield, Daredevil, Agent Carter and Jessica Jones so trying to blame criticism on fanboy misogyny/sexism is a excuse that doesn't work.

 

[Lencho01]

I liked the episode.

The only issues I had was the way the opening scene with Vixen was shot. And the Oliver/Felicity nonsense.

 

[Mikelus]

It's much easier to write criticism off as "knuckle-dragging fanboy mentality" and mysoginy than to actually tackle the arguments.

Or calling other people trolls for having a different opinion. If people argue their opinions with valid, reasonable points, then it's better to agree to disagree and move on.

I don't think anyone is questioning her right to leave. In fact I'm pretty sure most are welcoming it. It's whether she's has the right reasoning that's in question and I'm sure most agree that she doesn't, because she's acting like a teeny bopper instead of an understanding adult.

Exactly, it was Oliver's decision to make, she could've been more understanding instead of being so judgemental. Anyway, like the whole pointless paralyzed plot, this is just more forced drama to stall the wedding or whatever they decide to do with them.

I also liked Vixen, she would be a good addition to LoT, if they need to eliminate characters to make room for her, then they should take Palmer and Rory out, they're less interesting than Vixen and other legends.

 

[Primal Slayer]

She would've been understanding if he came to her and was like "I have this big decision to make" instead of keeping something from her again. She understood that it would be best to keep his kid a secret, she understood sending them away for their safety, she didn't agree with him lying to her for months, having Malcolm in the know, having Thea in the know, having Barry in the know, yet he keeps lying to her? After she finds out he can't even come to her with his big weight on his shoulders about having to send her son away? Does he not trust her? That's her point.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

She cut him off every time he tried to explain. Samantha had a heart to heart with Felicity taking all the blame away from Oliver. Nah, only thing I can see from her side is his track record, but after 2 years of putting in hard work to change his apparent genetic secret-keeping she should have trusted him enough to let him give her an explanation.

The vlog at the end was none of her business.

Unless they're (William and Felicity) living together under the same roof he is none of her business, especially since they've (Samantha and William) essentially gone into witness protection.

 

[Boy Scout]

Oliver could not and would not tell anyone about William because of Samantha. If Felicity wants to be angry at someone for that, it should be her. Not only is Oliver honorable to a fault (a character trait that I find irritating), but he didn't want to risk Samantha finding out that he told someone and then taking William away from him. Should he have told Felicity anyway? Sure, maybe. But the fact that he didn't doesn't make him a bad boyfriend.

Oliver was never given the chance to tell Felicity that he decided to send William away because she never gave him the opportunity. She watched him record the video and then left without giving him a chance to explain himself. She made a hasty, emotional decision without actually considering the consequences of her actions and then had the nerve to accuse him of not being ready for marriage. Oliver's no saint, but Felicity is in no position to judge.

 

[Primal Slayer]

3 people knew of Samantha/William, did Samantha have spies that would run back to her if he told his fiance? If he want's Felicity to be his wife and live a life with him, you better believe that these kind of things are business to know.

She wants Oliver to be open with her and come to her about his problems, not be an afterthought.

Oliver showed that he still has a lot of growing to do since even last year he didn't trust his own teammates to inform them that "hey, im going undercover" but he trusts one of his biggest enemies?

 

[BlueLanternKal]

3 people knew of Samantha/William, did Samantha have spies that would run back to her if he told his fiance?

She wants Oliver to be open with her and come to her about his problems, not be an afterthought.

Oliver showed that he still has a lot of growing to do since even last year he didn't trust his own teammates to inform them that "hey, im going undercover" but he trusts one of his biggest enemies?

You're acting like he told Malcolm. He didn't. Malcolm found out through LoA intel. Probably sooner (since he did have an on-off affair with Moira).

 

[Primal Slayer]

He still knew that Malcolm knew. If Malcolm knows then who the hell cares who else finds out?

Oliver is DUMB.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

He still knew that Malcolm knew. If Malcolm knows then who the hell cares who else finds out?

Yeah, no. Like BoyScout said. He was under oath for the sake of his son. He did the honorable (to a fault) thing here.

 

[Boy Scout]

3 people knew of Samantha/William...

Three people that Oliver did not tell. Everyone who found out about William before this episode did so with zero assistance from Oliver.

did Samantha have spies that would run back to her if he told his fiance?

That's not the point. She made Oliver promise that he wouldn't tell anyone. If she found out that he went against her wishes, she would never let Oliver see William. I can't blame the guy for not taking any chances.

If he want's Felicity to be his wife and live a life with him, you better believe that these kind of things are business to know.

Under ordinary circumstances, yes, but these aren't ordinary circumstances.

Again: Oliver was expressly forbidden to tell anyone about William. Samantha knew that he had a serious girlfriend who he wanted to tell, but she wouldn't allow it. I can absolutely understand feeling somewhat betrayed, but what kind of woman breaks up with a man for respecting the wishes of the mother of his child?

She wants Oliver to be open with her and come to her about his problems, not be an afterthought.

That's exactly my problem with her. She's asking him to put her before his own son. That's ****ing ridiculous.

Oliver showed that he still has a lot of growing to do since even last year he didn't trust his own teammates to inform them that "hey, im going undercover" but he trusts one of his biggest enemies?

That's ********. Anyone with eyes can see that Oliver's changed, or is at the very least making a very sincere effort. I'm sure Felicity has even acknowledged it once or twice. Felicity never throws Oliver's past behavior back in his face until it's convenient for her.

 

[Boy Scout]

He still knew that Malcolm knew. If Malcolm knows then who the hell cares who else finds out?

Malcolm knowing changes nothing, because Oliver wasn't the one to tell him. He didn't violate his end of the bargain, and Malcolm having knowledge of William does not in any way suggest that everyone needs to know.

 

[Paradox1]

He still knew that Malcolm knew. If Malcolm knows then who the hell cares who else finds out?

Oliver is DUMB.

Yeah that was dumb, once Malcolm confirmed he knew he should of put that boy into hiding.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Oliver knew all these people knew his secret so then he is just going to keep his fiance in the dark and take the risk of having someone else possibly tell her? Like that is a smart idea. Obviously this got out of control so he should have taken the reigns and told Felicity instead of being forced into it. And what just because other people knew other ways it makes it all ok? Then Oliver should've told Thea to tell Felicity, then he doesn't break anything.

How is her wanting him to be open with her putting her before his own son?

And it isn't as if Samantha could keep William from Oliver, he would have legal rights to see him.

Oliver may be a happier person but that's about all, he has withheld a major secret since we've met him. He didn't tell Laurel that he knocked up a girl, he didn't tell her about him being Arrow, he didn't tell any of them about his plan to take down Ra's, it's all secrets secrets secrets with him where he expects everyone to forgive him after the secret blows up in his face.

Malcolm knowing changes nothing, because Oliver wasn't the one to tell him. He didn't violate his end of the bargain, and Malcolm having knowledge of William does not in any way suggest that everyone needs to know.

This entire series says other wise. ESPECIALLY when you just chopped off the guys hand! AND took away his nifty little club! Yeah, I am going to keep my cool after I piss off a guy who has killed 500 people, caused my fathers death, drugged my sister into killing my friend, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[zenith16]

This entire series says other wise. ESPECIALLY when you just chopped off the guys hand! AND took away his nifty little club! Yeah, I am going to keep my cool after I piss off a guy who has killed 500 people, caused my fathers death, drugged my sister into killing my friend, yadda yadda yadda.

yeah I know alot people off line I talked to about the episode found it weird that oliver told thea to get in touch with Malcolm, to find willam.

He'd be too ticked off at oliver still to want to help find Oliver'ss son. Malcolm rather make sure that kid had more trouble evergetting home or had put him there in the first place. And they All know now it was Malcome that got the kid in Darhk's hands in the first place.

 

[Jedi Arrow]

Hey, so Cisco said in E15 of Flash that he was going to see to some upgrades to Diggle's helmet. Did that actually come to pass, or was it a technological update only, and his helmet's appearance didn't change?

 

[SpideyVille]

Hey, so Cisco said in E15 of Flash that he was going to see to some upgrades to Diggle's helmet. Did that actually come to pass, or was it a technological update only, and his helmet's appearance didn't change?

I think something was up with the timeline of both shows because Diggle didn't mention anything that happened in Central City, plus he was in CC for a few days yet he was in Starling right away. So I'm not sure how both episodes worked together.

 

[Primal Slayer]

He is suppose to get a new helmet but it hasn't been revealed yet.

 

[zenith16]

I think something was up with the timeline of both shows because Diggle didn't mention anything that happened in Central City, plus he was in CC for a few days yet he was in Starling right away. So I'm not sure how both episodes worked together.

yeah Cico said he'd work on something for diggle when he show up and he get on after speaking to the Marin Biologist. I'm guessing the new helmet feature will be a targeting & scanner system similar to Palmer's helmet. be side that I'm sure Cisco will make a guest appearance again I guess.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Oh man, after watching this again I think this whole episode was an elaborate gambit by Merlyn. Hear me out.

Merlyn went straight to Darhk, who by LoA tradition is his sworn enemy, after losing the title of Ra's. He told Darhk about William. Darhk played right into that by kidnapping the kid.

This in turn would force Oliver's hand. Merlyn knew Oliver would stop at nothing until he got his son back and took out Darhk for good.

With Darhk now out of the picture he can destroy HIVE and steal whatever Genesis is and use it at his own discretion.

Well played Dark Archer, well played.

 

[Gintoki]

Good episode. But it felt like a regular episode. I was expecting some epic cliffhanger, like how The Flash had Zoom's identity revealed. Instead it ended with a crap ending, with Felicity bitc*ing at Oliver, and making everything about herself.

After this episode, my hate for Felicity went on another level. Get rid of her now. I was reluctant at first, but she has become unbearable now.

So Oliver can't make Independent decisions, along with the mother of William. Why the hell should Felicity be involved? Not like you were going to change the outcome, nor you have any right to. So When Felicity had her father arrested, did she consult Oliver? Ohhh nope. Also in last episode, she said to donna, that's alright if Lance is lying for a good reason, and that is to protect someone. Welp, complete contradiction of her character in this episode. I hope Oliver, if not him, then Diggle calls out Felicity for her BS-ness and selfishness.

They should have replaced this Olicity break up with a better ending, maybe Damien going to Jail, or introduction or glimpse of the another big bad.

 

[Herolee10]

Oliver knew all these people knew his secret so then he is just going to keep his fiance in the dark and take the risk of having someone else possibly tell her? Like that is a smart idea. Obviously this got out of control so he should have taken the reigns and told Felicity instead of being forced into it. And what just because other people knew other ways it makes it all ok? Then Oliver should've told Thea to tell Felicity, then he doesn't break anything.

How is her wanting him to be open with her putting her before his own son?

And it isn't as if Samantha could keep William from Oliver, he would have legal rights to see him.

Oliver may be a happier person but that's about all, he has withheld a major secret since we've met him. He didn't tell Laurel that he knocked up a girl, he didn't tell her about him being Arrow, he didn't tell any of them about his plan to take down Ra's, it's all secrets secrets secrets with him where he expects everyone to forgive him after the secret blows up in his face.

This entire series says other wise. ESPECIALLY when you just chopped off the guys hand! AND took away his nifty little club! Yeah, I am going to keep my cool after I piss off a guy who has killed 500 people, caused my fathers death, drugged my sister into killing my friend, yadda yadda yadda.

Be that as it may, Felicity has one of the worst timings when it comes to expressing herself.

Felicity has never, even once, taken to account on how Oliver must be feeling emotionally after all of this. If she had any decency, she would not have added another emotional blow to him after watching him literally give up his chance on spending time with his son.

Throughout this season, whenever Felicity was having issues, Oliver was ALWAYS there for her, even when he didn't fully understand on what was going on with her.

But when Oliver needs emotional support, she became a total ***** and made it all about herself.

What Oliver decides to do with his relationship with William is of no concern to her. Did she give birth to William? Did she raise him? Who the hell does she think she is to feel that she needs to have a say in what Oliver does with his son?

If this season has proven anything, it's that Felicity is a selfish person who's also power hungry and possessive of people.

I really wish Oliver would call her out on her ******** like he did with Laurel in Season 2.

 

[Omegabat]

Eh Ollie was a flawed/struggling hero till season 2,an inconsistent mess in season 3 and now a person legitimately trying to do the right thing currently. His character has consistency now that he lacked in the previous season.
It's Felicity who's all over the place for the last 2 seasons. This entire argument over her selfishness wouldn't even exist if that toxic romance was never the show's priority.
We shouldn't be debating who's right or wrong,we should be asking how and why Arrow went from fighting villains to save his city to fighting villains to save Olcity.
Okay Felicity feels hurt and you can argue for legitimate reasons,but why the heck are her feelings so important to be devoted so much of the narrative space? they aren't,no one cares aside from Tumblr.

 

[Mikelus]

Oliver may be a happier person but that's about all, he has withheld a major secret since we've met him. He didn't tell Laurel that he knocked up a girl, he didn't tell her about him being Arrow, he didn't tell any of them about his plan to take down Ra's, it's all secrets secrets secrets with him where he expects everyone to forgive him after the secret blows up in his face.

Yeah, I am going to keep my cool after I piss off a guy who has killed 500 people, caused my fathers death, drugged my sister into killing my friend, yadda yadda yadda.

Well, you know Felicity will forgive him, Guggenheim & co are there to please the Tumblr crowd. You're right about the whole thing being dumb though, unfortunately, the writing has been terrible the last two seasons, they don't care about the details anymore, even the fights suck now, a real shame.

Back on Felicity, lets not forget how unfair she was in the original timeline (crossover) when she broke up with Oliver. He just discovered he had a son, he barely had enough time to digest the whole thing, but all she could think of was herself, very selfish from her part. If I were Oliver, I would never marry someone so hypocrite and judgemental, he has enough problems to deal with already. But whatever, they will be a couple again to appease the crazies, unless the producers have the balls to break them up for good and be more faithful to the source material, maybe once they know when the show will end, who knows.

 

[Slade W]

Well, you know Felicity will forgive him, Guggenheim & co are there to please the Tumblr crowd. You're right about the whole thing being dumb though, unfortunately, the writing has been terrible the last two seasons, they don't care about the details anymore, even the fights suck now, a real shame.

Back on Felicity, lets not forget how unfair she was in the original timeline (crossover) when she broke up with Oliver. He just discovered he had a son, he barely had enough time to digest the whole thing, but all she could think of was herself, very selfish from her part. If I were Oliver, I would never marry someone so hypocrite and judgemental, he has enough problems to deal with already. But whatever, they will be a couple again to appease the crazies, unless the producers have the balls to break them up for good and be more faithful to the source material, maybe once they know when the show will end, who knows.

So, your response to them trying to "please" and "appease" one minority of fans (ie the tumblr fans), is that they should try to "please" and "appease" another minority of fans (ie the comic reading portion of the fans)? I mean, now that I have pointed that out to you, I hope you can see how silly that is.