Arrowverse General Arrowverse Watching Order 2.0

[famicommander]

Alright, I think that does it.

I added Titans, Doom Patrol, Batman 1966 TV series/film/animated movies, Batman 1989 film series, Green Hornet TV series.

I realize Titans and Doom Patrol don't take place on the same Earth but since there are doppelgangers between them, I added Doom Patrol

 

[gemris]

Welp, I guess that adds

Batman (1989)
Batman Returns
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin
Batman (1966 film)
Batman (1966 TV series)
Green Hornet (1966 TV series)
Batman: Return of the Caped Crusaders
Batman vs Two-Face
Titans

Got a bunch of episodes to add.

This seems kind of unnecessary overall. I mean, basically they are saying all previous films and series existed on alternate earths in the multiverse. They are unrelated to each other, and we can watch them in any order if we want to, but they don't really need to be added to the Arrowverse viewing order. They are all pretty self-contained and unrelated, so they aren't really prequel series.

One question though. Of all of the Arrowverse shows, Supergirl S05E08 had the biggest and most urgent tie-in with the most happening at the end regarding the destruction of Argo, yet you have that episode before a bunch of other episodes that have to take place prior. I know you're going by the main story thread and not the epilogue, but in theory all shows are happening concurrently, so why is the entire season of Black Lightning and 20+ overall episodes taking place between the Supergirl S05E08 cliffhanger and Crisis? Just curious the reasoning behind that. With a few exceptions, it almost makes more sense to watch this season all in airing order (with the exception of maybe Black Lightning), particularly since tptb were very careful what was teased in each episode of each show as they rolled out.

 

[famicommander]

The shows in theory are not often happening concurrently is the problem. Sometimes a show will end one season and pick up the next one days later, sometimes a show will end one season and pick up several months later. You have to use clues on each of the shows to try to find out exactly when they take place relative to both earlier episodes of the same series and also the episodes of the other series airing concurrently.

And as for the watching order, if the producers go out of their way to show us characters from these films or shows, I consider them part of the overall story. Your mileage may vary. This list is exhaustive but you're free to ignore any parts of it you want.

 

[gemris]

The shows in theory are not often happening concurrently is the problem. Sometimes a show will end one season and pick up the next one days later, sometimes a show will end one season and pick up several months later. You have to use clues on each of the shows to try to find out exactly when they take place relative to both earlier episodes of the same series and also the episodes of the other series airing concurrently.

And as for the watching order, if the producers go out of their way to show us characters from these films or shows, I consider them part of the overall story. Your mileage may vary. This list is exhaustive but you're free to ignore any parts of it you want.

It's all good. I love your list and really appreciate all the work. I wasn't referring to the whole list in general, but more to this current season. In general, it makes sense to run story arcs together when in doesn't mess with the threads that tie series together. That Supergirl S05E08 episode just seems really early in the list with such a major cliffhanger and Crisis starting at the end of it.

 

[famicommander]

It's all good. I wasn't referring to the whole list in general, but more to this current season. In general, it makes sense to run story arcs together when in doesn't mess with the threads that tie series together. That Supergirl S05E08 episode just seems really early in the list with such a major cliffhanger and Crisis starting at the end of it.

All of the shows end with a Crisis cliffhanger except Black Lightning, but it's still really hard to place them relative to the amount of time that is actually passing as the seasons move along. I'm more than willing to go back and see if there's somewhere to move it, though. A lot of the time I defer to what the imdb user koomy does because he's better at working out the timelines, but my list diverges from his at points where we disagree.

 

[famicommander]

At the very least I moved a lot of Black Lightning episodes to before Supergirl picks up, since it's largely unrelated anyway. That gets the ending of Supergirl 5.08 that much closer to Crisis.

And as always, these lists tend to evolve a lot as the seasons go along.

 

[Chupon]

Rip op

 

[famicommander]

Rip op

I'll be okay unless they decide to integrate the DCAU.

Not that it wouldn't be epic, but I have no desire to try to fit all of that into a coherent order.

 

[Chupon]

Well I did it, I caught up on the main Arrowverse shows today, now to watch the rest of Crisis and keep up.

I might go back and watch some of the items on this list though. I haven't seen Constantine, Black Lightning, Vixen, 90s Flash, or Birds of Prey so I've got plenty to choose from.

 

[famicommander]

Well I did it, I caught up on the main Arrowverse shows today, now to watch the rest of Crisis and keep up.

I might go back and watch some of the items on this list though. I haven't seen Constantine, Black Lightning, Vixen, 90s Flash, or Birds of Prey so I've got plenty to choose from.

Of those:

Vixen is set on Earth-1 and it's really short so that's what I would watch first. Watch The Movie version as it has extra scenes versus the two separate web seasons.

Next up, 90s Flash since that Flash appears in the flesh multiple times and at least half a dozen doppelgangers are featured throughout the Arrowverse as well (Barry, Tina McGee, Prank, Trickster, Julio Mendez, Tony Bellows).

Constantine is also set on Earth-1 but so far the only characters from it that actually show up elsewhere are John himself and a much older version of Astra. Pretty optional.

Birds of Prey is the one with the least to do with the other shows and the first episode or so are really awful, but if you can stick it out it does start to catch its stride.

 

[NatAwsom1138]

Just curious, when and where did they say that Batman Forever and Batman and Robin take place on Earth 97? Was it on Crisis Aftermath?

 

[famicommander]

Just curious, when and where did they say that Batman Forever and Batman and Robin take place on Earth 97? Was it on Crisis Aftermath?

Yeah.

It may have actually been a joke because it was phrased as a trivia question.

The question was something like, "If Batman 1989 takes place on Earth-89 and The Flash 1990 takes place on Earth-90, what earth does Batman and Robin take place on?"

The answer was 1997.

Regardless of whether the Earth-97 bit was a joke, Guggenheim did confirm that both "Bat Nipple" films are Arrowverse canon. He just didn't explicitly saw whether they are on the same Earth as Batman 89/Returns or their own.

 

[NatAwsom1138]

Yeah.

It may have actually been a joke because it was phrased as a trivia question.

The question was something like, "If Batman 1989 takes place on Earth-89 and The Flash 1990 takes place on Earth-90, what earth does Batman and Robin take place on?"

The answer was 1997.

Regardless of whether the Earth-97 bit was a joke, Guggenheim did confirm that both "Bat Nipple" films are Arrowverse canon. He just didn't explicitly saw whether they are on the same Earth as Batman 89/Returns or their own.

Well either way I like the idea. People have come up with theories before that those movies are in a different continuity from the Burton films, so this idea makes sense to me. I've seen some websites already rolling with the idea that Earth 89 is just for Batman and Batman Returns.

So I like the idea, I just didn't know where it was stated until now. Love your updated list, btw.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

People have come up with theories before that those movies are in a different continuity from the Burton films, so this idea makes sense to me. I've seen some websites already rolling with the idea that Earth 89 is just for Batman and Batman Returns.

Regardless of whether the Earth-97 bit was a joke, Guggenheim did confirm that both "Bat Nipple" films are Arrowverse canon. He just didn't explicitly saw whether they are on the same Earth as Batman 89/Returns or their own.

Exactly. It's a pretty divisive topic amongst some fans. He probably didn't want to upset anybody!

 

[famicommander]

I'm hoping for some clarification regarding Routh's Superman.

Because it's been stated that he's playing Reeve's Superman, but also that he is playing the Superman from Returns.

The timelines just don't add up. Superman Returns is a weird, loose quasi-sequel but it's set in 2005, while Superman II is set in 1979.

So maybe Routh can be the canonical Reeve Superman from Superman through Superman IV, while Superman Returns is a doppelganger set on a very similar Earth? That would make the most sense.

But Routh as he appears in Crisis can't be BOTH Superman Returns' Superman AND Reeves'.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

So maybe Routh can be the canonical Reeve Superman from Superman through Superman IV, while Superman Returns is a doppelganger set on a very similar Earth? That would make the most sense.

If that does turn out to be the case then I guess Supergirl (the movie) would also become canon to the Arrowverse?

 

[famicommander]

If that does turn out to be the case then I guess Supergirl (the movie) would also become canon to the Arrowverse?

Yeah, that would be the case.

Or maybe they're just gonna handwave any continuity issues.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Or maybe they're just gonna handwave any continuity issues.

I wouldn't be surprised, tbh.

 

[famicommander]

I wouldn't be surprised, tbh.

Well Robert Wuhl's character was reading a newspaper that said Batman caught the Joker... and we all remember Batman killed the Joker at the end of the 1989 film. So either there's some Lazarus Pit action going on or they're just not thinking too hard about the details.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Well Robert Wuhl's character was reading a newspaper that said Batman caught the Joker... and we all remember Batman killed the Joker at the end of the 1989 film. So either there's some Lazarus Pit action going on or they're just not thinking too hard about the details.

That seems pretty ridiculous, given that everybody knows that Joker died at the end of that movie. There was that shot released a little while back of another newspaper wasn't there, with a headline announcing Bruce Wayne's marriage to 'socialite Selina Kyle' alongside a photograph of Keaton. I certainly wouldn't have referred to the Selina Kyle of Batman Returns as a socialite!

 

[famicommander]

That seems pretty ridiculous, given that everybody knows that Joker died at the end of that movie. There was that shot released a little while back of another newspaper wasn't there, with a headline announcing Bruce Wayne's marriage to 'socialite Selina Kyle' alongside a photograph of Keaton. I certainly wouldn't have referred to the Selina Kyle of Batman Returns as a socialite!

I would assume some time had passed between the ending of Returns and that article, though. Perhaps Kyle re-established herself in the interim.

As for the Joker, it has to be either a revival or a different Joker.

 

[famicommander]

Seems like they're handwaving the timeline and trying to say all the Reeve Superman films AND Returns star the same version of Clark.

Because Routh's Superman referenced both his son Jason (from Returns) and the time he fought his evil self(from Superman III).

So I guess if the producers don't care that the timeline is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense, neither do I. I guess time is just stupid on Earth-96.

So yeah, Superman III, Superman IV, and Supergirl are in.

 

[NatAwsom1138]

Seems like they're handwaving the timeline and trying to say all the Reeve Superman films AND Returns star the same version of Clark.

Because Routh's Superman referenced both his son Jason (from Returns) and the time he fought his evil self(from Superman III).

So I guess if the producers don't care that the timeline is ridiculous and makes absolutely no sense, neither do I. I guess time is just stupid on Earth-96.

So yeah, Superman III, Superman IV, and Supergirl are in.

I'm just going to go back to looking at Superman Returns as its own movie, with elements from the previous films being canon to its timeline only when those elements are referenced. So a version of Superman III may have happened on Earth-96, just not exactly the same way (at least that's how I see it, feel free to disagree).

But on that note, the Christopher Reeve movies in their original form could exist on a different earth. This crossover is making anything possible.

 

[famicommander]

I'm just going to go back looking at Superman Returns as it's own movie, with elements from the previous films being canon to it's timeline only when those elements are referenced. So part a version of Superman III may have happened on Earth 96, just not exactly the same.

But on that note, the Christopher Reeve movies in their original form could exist on a different earth. This crossover is making anything possible.

But Guggenheim explicitly stated Routh to be playing Reeve's Superman. And then he referenced his son from Returns.

So despite how Returns ignores everything after II and doesn't even fit as a sequel to II, as far as the Arrowverse is concerned Superman I-IV, Supergirl, and Returns are all set on Earth-96.

It's all the same to me really, because in my book only Superman the Movie was good.

 

[NatAwsom1138]

But Guggenheim explicitly stated Routh to be playing Reeve's Superman. And then he referenced his son from Returns.

So despite how Returns ignores everything after II and doesn't even fit as a sequel to II, as far as the Arrowverse is concerned Superman I-IV, Supergirl, and Returns are all set on Earth-96.

It's all the same to me really, because in my book only Superman the Movie was good.

Huh, I didn't know Guggenheim said that. Interesting.

Well, I guess Earth-96 takes after long-running comics in how the timeline can become kind of a mess after a while.

And yeah, Superman: The Movie is awesome. I like Superman II, and it complements the first one, but I agree that the franchise never got as good Superman: The Movie.