Comics Asm #534 *spoilers*

[J. J. Jameson]

Or J Jonah Jameson in drag after a drunken night...

I object to this remark very strongly

 

[Themanofbat]

exactly, this is unbelievable! Someone please EXPLAIN to me how Spider-Man can get beaten by someone he's like 10 times stronger than (especially after "the other"). Not to mention faster, and spider-sense. Which is exactly why the "trained" routine doesn't work.
A 5 yr old who knows karate isn't gonna beat up a 20 yr old.
Millar wrote Spidey perfectly in civial War 3. Then in ASM534, Strazynski, the inconsistent noob that he is, had Capt beat Spider-man.

Spider-Man didn't want to fight Cap... it's easy for Cap to get a few punches in when his opponent's head's not in the game.

I simply cannot understand why some of you guys just can't see that?

Also, wasn't peter bitten by the spider when he was 17? Why is he saying 15? is this another pathetic attempt by marvel to make spider-man younger? among other stupid things like Tony calling Peter son.

Gerry Conway's 1989 "Parallel Lives" Graphic Novel has Peter saying he was 15 when he was bitten by the spider, so it's not new.

I think your post is a pathetic attempt to get people riled up at Marvel for nothing.

 

[DACrowe]

Well it is a minor point but he was 17 in the comics when bitten as Lee wrote in the '60s as "real time" and finished his high school career a little after two years and started his push towards college. So I don't think he aged 4 years in 2 years of writing then. But in Ultimate he has been 15 for the last 5 years and since most new fans are using that as a point of reference (unfortunately) they just kinda' "make it fit" then.

 

[USMC]

Spider-Man didn't want to fight Cap... it's easy for Cap to get a few punches in when his opponent's head's not in the game.

I simply cannot understand why some of you guys just can't see that?

Personally, I feel that Cap can beat Spidey even if Spidey was at the top of his game. I'm not a Cap lover or anything, but I just think he's not only a worthy opponent against Spider-Man... he's also a better one.

 

[Spider-Man™]

"Then he throws it. Throws the symbol of the whole freaking country at me. Damn....."

What Spidey said in that issue was just WOW!

 

[Themanofbat]

Well it is a minor point but he was 17 in the comics when bitten as Lee wrote in the '60s as "real time" and finished his high school career a little after two years and started his push towards college. So I don't think he aged 4 years in 2 years of writing then. But in Ultimate he has been 15 for the last 5 years and since most new fans are using that as a point of reference (unfortunately) they just kinda' "make it fit" then.

You know, I used to believe he was 17 as well, but I'll be darned if I can find out where I would have gotten that source material.

But if Stan did indeed write the early 60's material as if it were real time, then it would have made more sense that Peter was 15 at the time, because he would have been in the 10th grade, or the first year of high school. I graduated High School when I was 17 (because I was born after June), so it's easy to see the same for Peter.... so Stan's "real time" stuff favors the idea that he was 15 when he was bit by the spider.

 

[Themanofbat]

Personally, I feel that Cap can beat Spidey even if Spidey was at the top of his game. I'm not a Cap lover or anything, but I just think he's not only a worthy opponent against Spider-Man... he's also a better one.

I don't know.... nothing against Cap, but if Spidey had to finish the fight, he could have.

I'm not suggesting it would be a cakewalk (for either of them), but I think Spidey wins this fight, if he tries.

 

[spider greg]

You know, I used to believe he was 17 as well, but I'll be darned if I can find out where I would have gotten that source material.

But if Stan did indeed write the early 60's material as if it were real time, then it would have made more sense that Peter was 15 at the time, because he would have been in the 10th grade, or the first year of high school. I graduated High School when I was 17 (because I was born after June), so it's easy to see the same for Peter.... so Stan's "real time" stuff favors the idea that he was 15 when he was bit by the spider.

As long as I can remember it was always 15. These days though... who knows?

 

[SLYspyder]

Spider-Man didn't want to fight Cap... it's easy for Cap to get a few punches in when his opponent's head's not in the game.

I simply cannot understand why some of you guys just can't see that?



Gerry Conway's 1989 "Parallel Lives" Graphic Novel has Peter saying he was 15 when he was bitten by the spider, so it's not new.

I think your post is a pathetic attempt to get people riled up at Marvel for nothing.

bull. even if spidey's head wasn't in the game, cap is no match for him.

it says on the very first page of the very first spider-man comic, "seventeen year old Peter Parker".

I'm a huge Marvel fan, so I'm really pissed that you'd say something like that. Yes, I AM trying to get people riled up at marvel, for good reason, not writing spider-man's strength right, not for a dumb reason like "I don't like the costume" or "I don't like this storyline".

 

[SLYspyder]

Personally, I feel that Cap can beat Spidey even if Spidey was at the top of his game. I'm not a Cap lover or anything, but I just think he's not only a worthy opponent against Spider-Man... he's also a better one.

You must be one of those that still thinks spider-man is an amateur. Even after 10 years of defeating some of the deadliest villains in the game.

It's not up for discussion whether Spidey would win or not, it's a FACT that spider-man would win.

 

[mre]

You must be one of those that still thinks spider-man is an amateur. Even after 10 years of defeating some of the deadliest villains in the game.

It's not up for discussion whether Spidey would win or not, it's a FACT that spider-man would win.

Yea, but Cap is still way more experienced than Spidey.

 

[Spade]

Yea, but Cap is still way more experienced than Spidey.

Experience can only account for so much. Onslaught had no real experience kicking around heroes, and he didn't seem to have difficulty doing such with his overwhelming powers. Enhanched human conditioning and experience < sheer power plus agility and spider-sense, at least from what I think should have occured in this case.

 

[Themanofbat]

it says on the very first page of the very first spider-man comic, "seventeen year old Peter Parker".

Well, it appears that you have a Spider-Man comic that I don't have.

Because I have never seen that "quote" on ANY page of Spider-Man's first comic.

Check your prescription, Eagle-Eyes....

 

[SLYspyder]

Well, it appears that you have a Spider-Man comic that I don't have.

Because I have never seen that "quote" on ANY page of Spider-Man's first comic.

Check your prescription, Eagle-Eyes....

whatever. Peter was a SENIOR when he got bit. he was not ahead in school, hence he was 17 or 18.

 

[SLYspyder]

...

 

[SLYspyder]

Well, it appears that you have a Spider-Man comic that I don't have.

Because I have never seen that "quote" on ANY page of Spider-Man's first comic.

Check your prescription, Eagle-Eyes....

whatever. Peter was a SENIOR when he got bit. he was not ahead in school, hence he was 17 or 18.

 

[SpideyInATree]

You must be one of those that still thinks spider-man is an amateur. Even after 10 years of defeating some of the deadliest villains in the game.

It's not up for discussion whether Spidey would win or not, it's a FACT that spider-man would win.

I doubt USMC thinks that.

I've seen powerful guys get taken down by someone who looks to have less power than them. If you know how to fight and can read your opponent you're going to have an upper hand.

Yeah, Spider-Man is obviously a little more blessed in the powers department. He could bench press more than Captain America and he could dodge a barrage of bullets and Cap, sans shield, would eventually get hit while Spider-Man wouldn't. Yeah, Spider-Man has spider-sense but that doesn't really give him an ultimate guarentee, especially if danger is coming from all angles.

Cap knows Spider-Man and if it comes down to it Cap is going to edge Pete out. I agree with USMC, but it has nothing to do with him being "an amateur". It has everything to do with Peter Parker having great power, agility and speed...but does he KNOW how to fight. No, he doesn't. Peter has ADMITTED this.

But going with the story Pete OPENLY does not want to fight Captain America. He's already questioning his decision. He was beginning to question Tony Stark, and then Captain F'N America offers him a deal. And with Pete suspecting that Tony can "spy" on him in the suit...he has to do what he has to do, by law. It is obvious that Pete's head wasn't completely in the game and I'm sure Cap's wasn't either. But it was part of the story. In all honesty, nobody really walked out a winner or a loser. Cap got outty 5000 while Pete saved his shield, still showing respect for him.

I really don't see what was bad about the writing, nor the fight. It was rather dramatic and well done if you ask me.

 

[Venomfan]

cap shouldnt be able to dodge spidermans attacks, spiderman is like what 10 times faster then him? if cap put his sheild up, spiderman should be able to hit him from behind before cap realizes whats happening

 

[Gamma Burst]

Skilled or not,Cap shouldn't be a match for Spidey.After all,he's not much more than a strong human.Spider-Man,on the other hand,has an array of powers that could(and should) give him the edge in a fight with Cap.

 

[Kent]

I doubt USMC thinks that.

I've seen powerful guys get taken down by someone who looks to have less power than them. If you know how to fight and can read your opponent you're going to have an upper hand.

I don't think this is a very good analogy. The variation of strength and speed within the human race is negligable when compared to how much faster and stronger Spidey is in relation to Cap. I mean... Cap is peak human in his abilities
Spidey is somewhere along the lines of tens of times faster and stronger. And I don't think you can claim you've seen a guy taken down by someone who is ten times as weak than him. The weaker guy would have to be a paraplegic, or a child (which sorta puts the analogy into perspective).
I don't think skill can really compensate for that kind of difference... and then we haven't really adressed speed yet.

 

[Cullen]

Well, it appears that you have a Spider-Man comic that I don't have.

Because I have never seen that "quote" on ANY page of Spider-Man's first comic.

Check your prescription, Eagle-Eyes....

How's this for having too much time on my hands...

In Amazing #15, Flash Thompson is seen driving a car. Now things might have changes since then, but as it stands right now this puts Flash at sixteen.

Still assuming things haven't changed that much in the past decades, as a junior driver Flash should not have "more than two passengers under the age of 21 unless they are members of your immediate family, or your accompanying driver is your licensed parent, guardian, person 'in loco parentis,' driver education teacher or driving school instructor." Seeing three kids in the car with him suggests he's either ignoring this (a possibility) or that he has a full license. Which, assuming he's not risking his license, puts him at 17.

As Peter and Flash share classes, and assuming things haven't changed and Flash isn't flaunting the rules, this puts Peter at 16 or 17, but definately not 15. Unless he skipped a grade, of course, but that's assuming with no evidence.

Having said all of this, we also have to remember at one point Peter had blue eyes instead of brown, that the basic origin story changes here and there, and other gaffes. Thus whether it was an error on Conway's part or an editorial decision, the fact remains that at this point in time Peter was, indeed, 15 when bit by the spider. No story is ruined by this change, no character slandered beyond belief, and it may well change again suddenly in future.

In other words, interesting to debate but nothing to loss one's temper at. Or snark.

 

[Themanofbat]

How's this for having too much time on my hands...

In Amazing #15, Flash Thompson is seen driving a car. Now things might have changes since then, but as it stands right now this puts Flash at sixteen.

Still assuming things haven't changed that much in the past decades, as a junior driver Flash should not have "more than two passengers under the age of 21 unless they are members of your immediate family, or your accompanying driver is your licensed parent, guardian, person 'in loco parentis,' driver education teacher or driving school instructor." Seeing three kids in the car with him suggests he's either ignoring this (a possibility) or that he has a full license. Which, assuming he's not risking his license, puts him at 17.

As Peter and Flash share classes, and assuming things haven't changed and Flash isn't flaunting the rules, this puts Peter at 16 or 17, but definately not 15. Unless he skipped a grade, of course, but that's assuming with no evidence.

Having said all of this, we also have to remember at one point Peter had blue eyes instead of brown, that the basic origin story changes here and there, and other gaffes. Thus whether it was an error on Conway's part or an editorial decision, the fact remains that at this point in time Peter was, indeed, 15 when bit by the spider. No story is ruined by this change, no character slandered beyond belief, and it may well change again suddenly in future.

In other words, interesting to debate but nothing to loss one's temper at. Or snark.

Yeah well, he started...

An another interesting point is if you look at Stan's "one month between issues was one month in Spidey's time" assessment, he graduates from High School in ASM #28. In ASM #16, roughly one year prior, it's the DD/Spidey against the Ringmaster story where Parker's not seen at all in class, perhaps an indication of summer vacation, and in ASM #6, 10 months prior, Pete goes to Florida and again, no visuals of Peter in school, again PERHAPS an indication of summer vacation.

I used to think he was 17 as well, until a few things were pointed out to me, one being the revelation that he was 15 in the 1989 GN "Parallel Lives".

I've reluctantly come on board with the 15 age just recently.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

exactly, this is unbelievable! Someone please EXPLAIN to me how Spider-Man can get beaten by someone he's like 10 times stronger than (especially after "the other"). Not to mention faster, and spider-sense. Which is exactly why the "trained" routine doesn't work.
A 5 yr old who knows karate isn't gonna beat up a 20 yr old.
Millar wrote Spidey perfectly in civial War 3. Then in ASM534, Strazynski, the inconsistent noob that he is, had Capt beat Spider-man.

I'm not buying the "his heart wasn't in it" argument. Oh, I supposed Captain America's heart was it in right? Even if spidey's heart wasn't in it, but Capt's was, how can spiderman take the hits like a punching bag? He should've been able to dodge them with ease.

I ****in hate it when they short change a hero's powers, especially Spider-Man, which happens alot. they could've easily had another interfere which causes Spider-Man to lose the upperhand.

I just want to know what Strazynski was thinking!

Also, wasn't peter bitten by the spider when he was 17? Why is he saying 15? is this another pathetic attempt by marvel to make spider-man younger? among other stupid things like Tony calling Peter son.

The Parallel Lives grapic novel by Gerry Conway established Peter's age as being 15 at the time of his spider bite. This book came out around 1989 or so.

In regards to Captain America vs Spider-Man, Cap has knocked Peter on his ass in previous encounters....ASM #187 comes immediately to mind, and BOTH men's hearts were "in it" during that encounter...

Not sure what Marvel.com is saying, but the old handbook lists Cap's reflexes as "ten times that of a normal man", and Brubaker's recent Captain America 65th Anniversary Special show Cap being able to run a mile in "just over a minute".....so that should put him in position to at the very least, hang with Spider-Man in a fight, especially coupled with Cap's "nerve blows", even if Spidey's stats are slightly greater. In the real world, a boxer like Sugar Ray Leonard, for example, was known for his great speed and reflexes, but that still didnt prevent him from getting tagged by slightly slower atheletes during matches.

I thought the recent Spidey vs Cap fight was a pretty fair representation of both characters current abilities and mindsets.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

How's this for having too much time on my hands...

In Amazing #15, Flash Thompson is seen driving a car. Now things might have changes since then, but as it stands right now this puts Flash at sixteen.

Still assuming things haven't changed that much in the past decades, as a junior driver Flash should not have "more than two passengers under the age of 21 unless they are members of your immediate family, or your accompanying driver is your licensed parent, guardian, person 'in loco parentis,' driver education teacher or driving school instructor." Seeing three kids in the car with him suggests he's either ignoring this (a possibility) or that he has a full license. Which, assuming he's not risking his license, puts him at 17.

As Peter and Flash share classes, and assuming things haven't changed and Flash isn't flaunting the rules, this puts Peter at 16 or 17, but definately not 15. Unless he skipped a grade, of course, but that's assuming with no evidence.

Having said all of this, we also have to remember at one point Peter had blue eyes instead of brown, that the basic origin story changes here and there, and other gaffes. Thus whether it was an error on Conway's part or an editorial decision, the fact remains that at this point in time Peter was, indeed, 15 when bit by the spider. No story is ruined by this change, no character slandered beyond belief, and it may well change again suddenly in future.

In other words, interesting to debate but nothing to loss one's temper at. Or snark.

Nah, the only thing that proves is that Flash turned sixteen during that school year before Peter did. Having more than two passengers is a rule that is easily overlooked by teen agers, if not flat out ignored. Ever driven by a high school at letting out time? Those cars are PACKED full of kids, lol.

 

[Cullen]

Nah, the only thing that proves is that Flash turned sixteen during that school year before Peter did. Having more than two passengers is a rule that is easily overlooked by teen agers, if not flat out ignored. Ever driven by a high school at letting out time? Those cars are PACKED full of kids, lol.

Hey, like I said, assuming he wasn't. I know all of that doesn't amount to a Sherlock Holmes explanation...