Comics Asm #534 *spoilers*

[ssj wolverine]

If you think about it logically with both their hearts into it Spiderman should be able to beat Cap's ass 10 out of 10 times. If Spiderman wanted to Cap shouldn't be able to lay a finger on him. Whereas with a several blows Spidey can put Cap down permanantly. I know Capt. America is a great fighter with his shield but he is still just human with at best peak physical conditioning. But unfortunately writers don't write logically and just write according to their own agenda and storylines.

 

[Themanofbat]

If you think about it logically with both their hearts into it Spiderman should be able to beat Cap's ass 10 out of 10 times. If Spiderman wanted to Cap shouldn't be able to lay a finger on him. Whereas with a several blows Spidey can put Cap down permanantly. I know Capt. America is a great fighter with his shield but he is still just human with at best peak physical conditioning. But unfortunately writers don't write logically and just write according to their own agenda and storylines.

I'd just like to add that Captain America is more than just human with at best peak physical conditioning, he was injected with a Super Soldier Serum that makes him a LOT stronger than that.

 

[Narynan]

I would be inclined to agree with mon of bat in the above. Cap is more than Human, I meanthis dude hasnt aged because of the S.S.S. for a long time. Hes able to, in a more recent example, punch a hole through cockpit glass and hang on for the ride. While I agree that Spidey could go toe to toe with him and not look like a chump, Cap can and will lay down some ass kick if need be.

 

[masteryoda]

Spidey has never really broken any big time laws other than leaving the scene of a crime when the cops are yelling "Stop!", escaping the police when they wanted to question him for the murder Captain Stacy, and the occasional break-ins, etc...

Spidey has some respect for the law and for what is right. Why the hell do you think he's a "good" guy? And I will admit, that he does indeed break minor laws when it's the responsible thing to do at that time.

As far as the cops hating him... maybe. Police generally don't like vigilantes, but he has had friends on the force many times, going as far back as Jean DeWolffe, and this was at a time when he WAS wanted for questioning of the murder of Capt. Stacy. And if you ever read ASM #186, Spider-Man has never been charged nor has there ever been ANY warrants by the police for murders... not even Captain Stacy. They just wanted to question him.

Read the damn stories... Peter's being pressured by an old ally and friend that it's the right thing to do... his Aunt May, the ONE person whom he has done soooooooooooo much for during his entire crime-fighting career, gives him her blessing. Try to think of the amount of STRESS that was relieved off Peter's shoulders when she did that. All that he has endured his entire life in order to avoid his Aunt May having a heart attack if she ever found out he was that "terrible Spider-Man"... All the guilt of having to lie to her to protect her... Everything... and for one brief moment, she gives him HER blessing that what he's about to do is the right thing to do. Despite his apprehensions on the whole thing, this one little moment of euphoric magic clearly goes to his head, and he does it. He reveals himself. The way it was presented is so much in the character of Peter Parker (at least it is to me), that I have no clue how others are reading it. But he did it. I can clearly see how he was pressured to do it... and now, after everything has settled, he starts to think with a clearer head, and starts to doubt his decision.

Like it was mentioned in the last issue, everything that he has ever wanted is finally his... yet it feels wrong.

It's my opinion that the characterization is spot-on, and for those that can't see it, that's too bad.

And having said that, that's merely my two cents.

Cheers...

You're bang ****ing on, my friend.

 

[SLYspyder]

The Parallel Lives grapic novel by Gerry Conway established Peter's age as being 15 at the time of his spider bite. This book came out around 1989 or so.

In regards to Captain America vs Spider-Man, Cap has knocked Peter on his ass in previous encounters....ASM #187 comes immediately to mind, and BOTH men's hearts were "in it" during that encounter...

Not sure what Marvel.com is saying, but the old handbook lists Cap's reflexes as "ten times that of a normal man", and Brubaker's recent Captain America 65th Anniversary Special show Cap being able to run a mile in "just over a minute".....so that should put him in position to at the very least, hang with Spider-Man in a fight, especially coupled with Cap's "nerve blows", even if Spidey's stats are slightly greater. In the real world, a boxer like Sugar Ray Leonard, for example, was known for his great speed and reflexes, but that still didnt prevent him from getting tagged by slightly slower atheletes during matches.

I thought the recent Spidey vs Cap fight was a pretty fair representation of both characters current abilities and mindsets.

the handbook is wrong, and even if it was right, Marvel.com lists Spidey's reflex as 15 times that of a normal human! Spider-Man can run a mile in LESS than a minute. Spider-man's stats are not slightly greater, they're significantly greater.
There is a far more bigger difference between spidey and Capt than two human boxers.

nice try though buddy.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

the handbook is wrong, and even if it was right, Marvel.com lists Spidey's reflex as 15 times that of a normal human! Spider-Man can run a mile in LESS than a minute. Spider-man's stats are not slightly greater, they're significantly greater.
There is a far more bigger difference between spidey and Capt than two human boxers.

nice try though buddy.

And yet, in all their encounters Cap seems to have no problem handing Spidey his ass. Go figure.

 

[USMC]

You must be one of those that still thinks spider-man is an amateur.

Well, the way JQ has been handling him...

 

[USMC]

I don't know.... nothing against Cap, but if Spidey had to finish the fight, he could have.

I'm not suggesting it would be a cakewalk (for either of them), but I think Spidey wins this fight, if he tries.

Spidey's my favorite character, always has been, always will be. I honestly believe he could beat the Hulk, Iron Man, actually quite alot of heroes and villains in a one-on-one battle. Hell, I think he could probably even go toe-to-toe with Batman (God help me, I'll be flamed like crazy for saying that)... I just believe that Peter has demonstrated time after time after time his drive and determination and willpower to go against all odds when necessary.

For some reason (I have no logical reasoning) I just think Captain America could beat him... I don't know why, I just think that all of that "oomph" that would make Peter win every other battle... I think Cap has more of it. Cap would win, in my opinion.

 

[mre]

OK, I believe that Spidey could beat Batman, but how do you think he could beat the Hulk? I don't think there is any way that would be possible. I find it odd you continue to say that you will be flamed for saying that Spidey could beat Batman, when Batman has no superpower whatsoever.
You think Spidey could beat the Hulk THEN you say that Captain American could beat Spidey??? I don't get your logic.

And just so you know where I am coming from, Spidey is my favorite character as well, but I have no problem with the idea of Spidey being beaten by Captain American, or Iron Man. I know he would still put up a fight and thats all that matters. The Hulk? No way.
Batman... I would be upset if Spidey got beaten by Bats.

 

[USMC]

OK, I believe that Spidey could beat Batman, but how do you think he could beat the Hulk? I don't think there is any way that would be possible. I find it odd you continue to say that you will be flamed for saying that Spidey could beat Batman, when Batman has no superpower whatsoever.
You think Spidey could beat the Hulk THEN you say that Captain American could beat Spidey??? I don't get your logic.

And just so you know where I am coming from, Spidey is my favorite character as well, but I have no problem with the idea of Spidey being beaten by Captain American, or Iron Man. I know he would still put up a fight and thats all that matters. The Hulk? No way.
Batman... I would be upset if Spidey got beaten by Bats.

My logic is not based on whether or not they have powers or not, I don't think putting 2 people side by side and saying "oh, Spidey has a strength level of whatever vs. Hulk's strength level of whatever, so therefore Hulk wins" or "the Official Marvel Handbook has this or that for the heroes' powers", etc.

I mean, I guess realistically it depends on how the writer wants the story to go... any writer can write any kind of story in which the one he wants to win WILL win... and I suppose I agree that the Hulk can NOT be "completely beaten" by basically any non-cosmic character (not even Superman, IMO), I just mean that it takes more than a punch to beat certain characters GIVEN THAT THE WRITERS ARE HONEST WITH THEIR CHARACTERIZATIONS. Spider-Man has actually "stopped" the Hulk several times in a number of comics, starting with ASM Annual #3.

Spidey's characterzation is not being written honestly right now, IMO. He is completely pathetic, and I guess I'm not going to rehash all of that nonsense and how I feel about it right now...

But all I'm saying is, is that Spider-Man just has, I believe, more to him than almost every other character Marvel has made and I believe it's all of these traits and character and intelligence, plus his powers, that gives him a signifigant edge in almost every one-on-one fight with almost any other character. And I believe Captain America has a bit more, which is why I think Cap could beat Spidey.

 

[Venomfan]

i think in the end it all boils down to Marvel not being able to let Cap lose, i mean in the ultimate avengers movie he went toe to toe with the hulk for a bit, and iron man got smacked away like he was nothing, even tho iron man is in the hulks level.

and correct me if im wrong, but going by there stats ratio, isnt a spiderman vs. captain america fight equal to a hulk vs. spiderman fight?

 

[Gamma Burst]

and correct me if im wrong, but going by there stats ratio, isnt a spiderman vs. captain america fight equal to a hulk vs. spiderman fight?

Yup.Pretty much.

 

[J. J. Jameson]

and correct me if im wrong, but going by there stats ratio, isnt a spiderman vs. captain america fight equal to a hulk vs. spiderman fight?

You're comparing Cap's strength to the Hulk? Hulk could crush Cap.

Or are you saying that cap trying to fighting spiderman is like spider-man trying to take on the hulk? While I wouldn't go so extreme as that, yes. I do know that Cap is under Spider-Man in terms of strength.

 

[Ultimate Kaine]

I thought the last ASM was pretty pathetic, Parker should eat his own **** for taking on Cap like that.

 

[Dangerous]

If you think about it logically with both their hearts into it Spiderman should be able to beat Cap's ass 10 out of 10 times. If Spiderman wanted to Cap shouldn't be able to lay a finger on him. Whereas with a several blows Spidey can put Cap down permanantly. I know Capt. America is a great fighter with his shield but he is still just human with at best peak physical conditioning. But unfortunately writers don't write logically and just write according to their own agenda and storylines.

Thanks now I don’t have to post that as I was going to point this out myself.

SM would trash Cap inside 1 godamn minute if he wanted to.
Also I think the time for mental *********ion over how great Cap is would have run its course by this stage in Spidey's life and under his current stressed circumstances.

This issue was not good it was crap as usual.

 

[ragingdemon155]

and correct me if im wrong, but going by there stats ratio, isnt a spiderman vs. captain america fight equal to a hulk vs. spiderman fight?

I wouldn't go as extreme as that but yea, thats a good point. It pretty much is.

Spider-man dwarfs Captain America in every physical aspect (Speed, strength, reflexes, agility). If Spider-man wants to beat Captain America, the fight is over. Captain America shouldn't be able to match up with him. But I've gotten use to the "Captain America" can't lose motto that Marvel uses. It doesn't upset me anymore because the guy just can't lose which is pretty ridiculous but thats just how it is.

 

[SpideyInATree]

I thought the last ASM was pretty pathetic, Parker should eat his own **** for taking on Cap like that.

Obviously you didn't actually "read" the story. But think what you will.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Thanks now I don’t have to post that as I was going to point this out myself.

SM would trash Cap inside 1 godamn minute if he wanted to.
Also I think the time for mental *********ion over how great Cap is would have run its course by this stage in Spidey's life and under his current stressed circumstances.

This issue was not good it was crap as usual.

If your going to go on the notion that Spider-Man's powers are, on paper, better than Cap's. Yeah, he's going to beat Captain America.

But you're not taking into account that Captain America can ACTUALLY FIGHT where as Peter Parker does NOT KNOW HOW TO FIGHT. He just punches things and uses his spider strength, and uses his smarts to get him through the battle. If he actually knew how to box or knew fighting strategy he'd be twice as dangerous.

But he never learned because he never had the time. Captain America is a tactician, and Peter Parker is not. Does that mean Captain America is going to beat him everytime? No.

But lets take in account the story.

Earlier Peter was side by side with Tony Stark. Tony mentions Peter's spider sense and Peter wonders, "Hmm, how'd he know about that?". So, Pete suspects that Tony is watching him through the suit or, at least, downloading information somehow.

Now, you don't think Tony wouldn't notice if Pete stood there and struck a deal with Captain America? You don't think Peter didn't just want to say, "Hey, you're right...lets go out there and save people". But he couldn't do that, he had to do what he didn't want to do. And it's the POINT of this story and why he made the wrong decision.

No, the story wasn't crap. You just seem upset that Captain America got shots in on Spider-Man because he's "automatically invincible because he has a spider-sense and is more powerful than Captain America". Spider-Man isn't invincible. Christ, The Shocker used to get huge shots in on him. Even the Kingpin has gotten shots in on Spider-Man. So, you think that a superhero, like Captain America, who is WAY stronger and agile than Kingpin couldn't nail Spider-Man with a few shots? Especially after the fact that Cap has had time to study Spider-Man being that they were on the same team?

 

[J. J. Jameson]

If your going to go on the notion that Spider-Man's powers are, on paper, better than Cap's. Yeah, he's going to beat Captain America.

But you're not taking into account that Captain America can ACTUALLY FIGHT where as Peter Parker does NOT KNOW HOW TO FIGHT. He just punches things and uses his spider strength, and uses his smarts to get him through the battle. If he actually knew how to box or knew fighting strategy he'd be twice as dangerous.

But he never learned because he never had the time. Captain America is a tactician, and Peter Parker is not. Does that mean Captain America is going to beat him everytime? No.

But lets take in account the story.

Earlier Peter was side by side with Tony Stark. Tony mentions Peter's spider sense and Peter wonders, "Hmm, how'd he know about that?". So, Pete suspects that Tony is watching him through the suit or, at least, downloading information somehow.

Now, you don't think Tony wouldn't notice if Pete stood there and struck a deal with Captain America? You don't think Peter didn't just want to say, "Hey, you're right...lets go out there and save people". But he couldn't do that, he had to do what he didn't want to do. And it's the POINT of this story and why he made the wrong decision.

No, the story wasn't crap. You just seem upset that Captain America got shots in on Spider-Man because he's "automatically invincible because he has a spider-sense and is more powerful than Captain America". Spider-Man isn't invincible. Christ, The Shocker used to get huge shots in on him. Even the Kingpin has gotten shots in on Spider-Man. So, you think that a superhero, like Captain America, who is WAY stronger and agile than Kingpin couldn't nail Spider-Man with a few shots? Especially after the fact that Cap has had time to study Spider-Man being that they were on the same team?

Excellent! And great point about how Spider-Man couldn't switch sides. It never occured to me before, but you're right! Of couse Tony would know and be on him like ants on sugar. That makes perfect sense. If Spidey is going to switch sides, it must be done in secret. Then he can strike against Iron Man.

I love when stuff like this happens...I get a different perspective on something I was sure I had figured out. Great stuff, SIAT

 

[ragingdemon155]

If your going to go on the notion that Spider-Man's powers are, on paper, better than Cap's. Yeah, he's going to beat Captain America.

But you're not taking into account that Captain America can ACTUALLY FIGHT where as Peter Parker does NOT KNOW HOW TO FIGHT. He just punches things and uses his spider strength, and uses his smarts to get him through the battle. If he actually knew how to box or knew fighting strategy he'd be twice as dangerous.

But he never learned because he never had the time. Captain America is a tactician, and Peter Parker is not. Does that mean Captain America is going to beat him everytime? No.

But lets take in account the story.

Earlier Peter was side by side with Tony Stark. Tony mentions Peter's spider sense and Peter wonders, "Hmm, how'd he know about that?". So, Pete suspects that Tony is watching him through the suit or, at least, downloading information somehow.

Now, you don't think Tony wouldn't notice if Pete stood there and struck a deal with Captain America? You don't think Peter didn't just want to say, "Hey, you're right...lets go out there and save people". But he couldn't do that, he had to do what he didn't want to do. And it's the POINT of this story and why he made the wrong decision.

No, the story wasn't crap. You just seem upset that Captain America got shots in on Spider-Man because he's "automatically invincible because he has a spider-sense and is more powerful than Captain America". Spider-Man isn't invincible. Christ, The Shocker used to get huge shots in on him. Even the Kingpin has gotten shots in on Spider-Man. So, you think that a superhero, like Captain America, who is WAY stronger and agile than Kingpin couldn't nail Spider-Man with a few shots? Especially after the fact that Cap has had time to study Spider-Man being that they were on the same team?

When there is a huge "physical" mismatch like this one. Tactics and so on go out the window. Spider-man should be able to land shots and avoid them at will against Captain America. Its not like Cap would actually be able to block the punches and seeing as how Spider-man is reacting so much faster then Cap could ever hope to...he shouldn't be able to dodge them.

But this is Spider-man were talking about...

Marvels personal punching bag.

So it doesn't shock me.

Also how the heck do you "study" someone who's entire fighting style is based on instincts? He doesn't have a set move coming or anything. He just reacts and seeing as how he has a "danger sense". His reaction time should be so much FASTER then Captain America's.

 

[SpideyInATree]

When there is a huge "physical" mismatch like this one. Tactics and so on go out the window. Spider-man should be able to land shots and avoid them at will against Captain America. Its not like Cap would actually be able to block the punches and seeing as how Spider-man is reacting so much faster then Cap could ever hope to...he shouldn't be able to dodge them.

Also how the heck do you "study" someone who's entire fighting style is based on instincts? He doesn't have a set move coming or anything. He just reacts and seeing as how he has a "danger sense". His reaction time should be so much FASTER then Captain America's.

First off. There is a story involved here. Spider-Man DOESN'T want to fight Captain America. And it was also obvious that Captain America DOESN'T want to fight Peter.

There wasn't a clear winner or loser. It was a plot device to show how crazy the registration act is ripping apart the heroes. Peter always showing the deep and true respect for Captain America. How Pete webbed his shield up higher so nobody could get to it and Cap came back and grabbed it. Hmmm, maybe people missed THAT too.

That's right and all Spider-Man does is react using his spider sense. He's not a fighter. Cap is a fighter and relies on his skills in many fighting techniques. Just because Peter Parker is extremely fast doesn't mean he still can't be hit. If Cap's shield is bouncing off of walls at high speeds in every direction, in a small space as well, it's eventually going to hit Peter whether his spider sense warns him or not. He's not invincible people.

 

[ragingdemon155]

First off. There is a story involved here. Spider-Man DOESN'T want to fight Captain America. And it was also obvious that Captain America DOESN'T want to fight Peter.

There wasn't a clear winner or loser. It was a plot device to show how crazy the registration act is ripping apart the heroes. Peter always showing the deep and true respect for Captain America. How Pete webbed his shield up higher so nobody could get to it and Cap came back and grabbed it. Hmmm, maybe people missed THAT too.

That's right and all Spider-Man does is react using his spider sense. He's not a fighter. Cap is a fighter and relies on his skills in many fighting techniques. Just because Peter Parker is extremely fast doesn't mean he still can't be hit. If Cap's shield is bouncing off of walls at high speeds in every direction, in a small space as well, it's eventually going to hit Peter whether his spider sense warns him or not. He's not invincible people.

Who ever said he was invincible? There are plenty of people that could handle SPider-man in the Marvel Universe. Its just that Cap isn't one of them though regardless of the "I'm Cap and I never lose because of my tactics" aura the guy has around him.

about that particular fight between Cap and Spidey. I'm not "too" upset because I just attribute the whole thing to Spider-man not wanting to punch Captain America's head right off.

I was just adding my 2 cents to the whole Captain America being able to "beat" Spider-man. It shouldn't be able to happen. Spider-man has "fighting" skills. Its his own style that he's developed over the years that only he can use since it makes use of all his powers in one fluid motion. Captain America's tactics SHOULD'nt mean much in this fight because he is SO physically outmatched its ridiculous.

Also.....if Cap's sheild is bouncing off walls in an alley or so on it will eventually hit Spidey? Yet the guy can walk into a room with 50 thugs with automatics and dance around the bullets like nothing? I don't see how that works.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Who ever said he was invincible? There are plenty of people that could handle SPider-man in the Marvel Universe. Its just that Cap isn't one of them though regardless of the "I'm Cap and I never lose because of my tactics" aura the guy has around him.

about that particular fight between Cap and Spidey. I'm not "too" upset because I just attribute the whole thing to Spider-man not wanting to punch Captain America's head right off.

I was just adding my 2 cents to the whole Captain America being able to "beat" Spider-man. It shouldn't be able to happen. Spider-man has "fighting" skills. Its his own style that he's developed over the years that only he can use since it makes use of all his powers in one fluid motion. Captain America's tactics SHOULD'nt mean much in this fight because he is SO physically outmatched its ridiculous.

Also.....if Cap's sheild is bouncing off walls in an alley or so on it will eventually hit Spidey? Yet the guy can walk into a room with 50 thugs with automatics and dance around the bullets like nothing? I don't see how that works.

I think we can both say that there are people making this out to be something that it's not.

To me it wasn't about Spider-Man vs. Captain America which everybody seems to want to look at it.

I look at it like Peter Parker was looking at Captain America right in the face and knew...HE KNEW...that what he was doing was wrong but seriously had no choice in the matter because the suit he was wearing is "spying" on him.

I mean, I thought that little pause before Pete attacked pretty much said it all. But I guess people interpreted it as something else.

 

[ragingdemon155]

I think we can both say that there are people making this out to be something that it's not.

To me it wasn't about Spider-Man vs. Captain America which everybody seems to want to look at it.

I look at it like Peter Parker was looking at Captain America right in the face and knew...HE KNEW...that what he was doing was wrong but seriously had no choice in the matter because the suit he was wearing is "spying" on him.

I mean, I thought that little pause before Pete attacked pretty much said it all. But I guess people interpreted it as something else.

Hmmm interesting way of looking at it.

I can meet you half way there.

 

[14k london spider]

First off. There is a story involved here. Spider-Man DOESN'T want to fight Captain America. And it was also obvious that Captain America DOESN'T want to fight Peter.

There wasn't a clear winner or loser. It was a plot device to show how crazy the registration act is ripping apart the heroes. Peter always showing the deep and true respect for Captain America. How Pete webbed his shield up higher so nobody could get to it and Cap came back and grabbed it. Hmmm, maybe people missed THAT too.

That's right and all Spider-Man does is react using his spider sense. He's not a fighter. Cap is a fighter and relies on his skills in many fighting techniques. Just because Peter Parker is extremely fast doesn't mean he still can't be hit. If Cap's shield is bouncing off of walls at high speeds in every direction, in a small space as well, it's eventually going to hit Peter whether his spider sense warns him or not. He's not invincible people.

spider-man is most definitely a fighter. He may not be a martial artist like cap but anyone with spider-man's street experience is a fighter. given his superhuman reflexes, speed and spider-sense, all allowing him to dodge multiple machine gun fire cap shouldn't be able to hit him. I'll still go with the theory his heart weren't in it, regardless of whether he used the legs. if your heart's not in it, it doesn't mean you don't want to fight or win, it means something is playing on your mind enough that you are completely off your game. Under those circumstances your logical/rational mind might say 'get the mechanical legs out if you want to win this' while your physical body isn't responding and isn't on form because your mibnd won't let it.