Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[JAK®]

We have science now. Religion is unnecessary.

Science can be just as spiritual as religion. The difference is that it's all true;

 

[cryptic name]

I used to be agnostic, but then I realized I was just being agnostic because it was really easy to sit on the fence and pretend that you're doing it because you're open minded. After a while it just started to feel like as much of a logical fallacy as being specifically religious. I think if you don't see any proof or evidence of religion being correct, then the only intelligent and logical choice to make at that point is to be an athiest.

I don't buy all the "athiesm is a religion itself!" crap either. It's the default option. If you don't willfully choose to believe in something supernatural like a god, then your default setting is being an athiest. It's being logically sound, Occam's Razor and all that, it's not a belief system in the way that religion is.

I don't have a problem with people being religious, and I think for the right people, it can just so happen to be a positive influence (though for many it can be an influence that causes them to do bad things as they use it for justification of immorality and malice, and for many it's an influence that causes them to be annoying as hell in their fervor), but even if you see it as a completely positive thing, you have to admit that it's basically illogical, and irrational, based on the evidence you as a human being are privy to (which is none, at least physicially, scientifically, or even historically in any verifiable way).

I don't know about that. Atheism is a firm stance, which doesn't seem that logical at all because...how could you possibly know? same issue i have with any religious belief.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Atheists don't "really" say they "know". Science is like a Magic 8 Ball that says, "Signs Point To No." If the Hubbell Telescope discovered God behind Pluto, Atheists would be the first to accept that. With a few questions of course.

But we accept facts. Faith is not fact.



...and if anyone misrepresents the word Scientific Theory again, I'm gonna scream. Look up the words, people.

 

[cryptic name]

all i'm saying is, none of us know, so why identify with a title that means...

a·the·ism   
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

 

[JJJ's Ulcer]

I do not know pigs can fly. Until someone proves pigs can fly I will not believe it.

Same exact thing with God.

 

[Dark Carnage]

Interesting thread title.

As the religious types neither love us, nor leave us alone.

 

[Franklin Richards]

all i'm saying is, none of us know, so why identify with a title that means...

a·the·ism   
[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no god.
2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

We're trying to work on a time machine so that we can go back and get a better title. Something better for PR. However until then we're stuck with the moniker.

I'd like to be called "The Children of Science".

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

Science can be just as spiritual as religion

It can also seem as fantastical when you learn more about our origin.
I think it's really incredible that when you zoom in to space, you are quite literally time traveling milloins and billions of years into the past because of the amount of time it takes light to reach the earth. You are looking at images of events long past. How crazy is that? It's mental. They actually think it's impossible to look totally back due time travelling so far back that it just becomes a wall of radiation.

Think about it, if you were on another planet or moon at a distance from earth, zooming with a powerful telescope you could end up looking at dinosaurs walking the surface of earth or seeing the great event that wiped them out. That's is actually theoretically possible. It's amazing, far better than a dude giving out bits of fish.

 

[ALP]

Atheism is like any other beliefs, I respect it and don't have a problem with it. It's not the beliefs, it's the people... I only want people to be respectful of one another. The fundamentalists of every religion or lack of religion are constantly fighting with one another. If everyone could just respect the beliefs of everyone and keep to what they want to believe, this world would be a better place.

My personal views is I believe in a very spiritual side of things. I've began to practice transcendental meditation and I find it to be helpful. Can you get to the point where you feel an out of body experience as if your soul has reached the cosmos? I don't know, haven't gotten that far but I'm interested in learning more. People are also too quick to judge. When you say atheist most people think of a miserly old man who is angry at the world but that's not true. One of my best friends is atheist and he's one of the nicest kindest person I know.

I admit there are also times where I feel atheism should not be put into the equation, like for the destitute. Take India for example. The majority of people in India live off only a few dollars a day. Many live in straw-like homes and bathe in the rivers. They are destitute and live in extremely harsh conditions. The only thing that many of them have to look forward to is their religion. After spending all day laboring in the sun for pennies they go to their religious temples, sing hymns, say prayers, meditate, etc. That is almost all they have to live for. India isn't like America or many free countries where you can work your way up. India still works in a caste system where if you are born poor then you will stay poor for the rest of your life. Their religious beliefs that they can be reborn to a higher caste ranking or reach a better afterlife is all many of them have. If you were to prove to them their religious beliefs weren't real, I imagine a lot of them would have nothing to live for. Now I don't believe a lick of the Hindu religion but it is helpful to one billion people on this earth so I'd never want to take it from them.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Atheism is like any other beliefs, I respect it and don't have a problem with it. It's not the beliefs, it's the people... I only want people to be respectful of one another. The fundamentalists of every religion or lack of religion are constantly fighting with one another. If everyone could just respect the beliefs of everyone and keep to what they want to believe, this world would be a better place.

My personal views is I believe in a very spiritual side of things. I've began to practice transcendental meditation and I find it to be helpful. Can you get to the point where you feel an out of body experience as if your soul has reached the cosmos? I don't know, haven't gotten that far but I'm interested in learning more. People are also too quick to judge. When you say atheist most people think of a miserly old man who is angry at the world but that's not true. One of my best friends is atheist and he's one of the nicest kindest person I know.

I admit there are also times where I feel atheism should not be put into the equation, like for the destitute. Take India for example. The majority of people in India live off only a few dollars a day. Many live in straw-like homes and bathe in the rivers. They are destitute and live in extremely harsh conditions. The only thing that many of them have to look forward to is their religion. After spending all day laboring in the sun for pennies they go to their religious temples, sing hymns, say prayers, meditate, etc. That is almost all they have to live for. India isn't like America or many free countries where you can work your way up. India still works in a caste system where if you are born poor then you will stay poor for the rest of your life. Their religious beliefs that they can be reborn to a higher caste ranking or reach a better afterlife is all many of them have. If you were to prove to them their religious beliefs weren't real, I imagine a lot of them would have nothing to live for. Now I don't believe a lick of the Hindu religion but it is helpful to one billion people on this earth so I'd never want to take it from them.

********!


You don't need religion to have a moral compass. Look in the eyes of your own children and you can feel the desire to do good. No relgion required.


It's times like this that I invoke the power of Santa Claus.

"Be good for goodness' sake."

 

[Bubonic]

ALP I see what you're saying about the more desolate people of the world. At times I almost find it cruel when I hear of cases of people trying to debunk religion, because you can often be taking the rug out from someone by doing so.

The thing with religion and the poorest of the poor is that, in my opinion, it keeps them complacent with where they are in life.

If I'm part of the ruling elite then I'd love this "the meek shall inherit the earth" b.s. because that keeps the meek out of my way and doing their work instead of rising up against the status quo.

For some people it would be good to have a codependent relationship with religion.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

What are your views on Atheism?

Atheism is not a religion, it's not really a belief system. You live your life like anybody else; you give to charity if you are compelled to; you live honestly, and you can do good in the world.

Some atheists I have met, base their belief on demeaning the religious values of others, and I am opposed to that. The same if an insecure religious nut did the same to an atheist.

 

[Dr.]

Some atheists I have met, base their belief on demeaning the religious values of others, and I am opposed to that. The same if an insecure religious nut did the same to an atheist.

That sounds nice.

But what if the “religious values” endorse discrimination against women or gays… or the teaching of superstition in public school science classes? It gets trickier when you actually spell out what the “religious values” are.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Don't forget the exceptionalism. Only through the blood of Christ can a person find salvation. Meaning Gandhi is dead.

 

[Bubonic]

I do loathe how some religions factions say if you're to have access to the afterlife you need to join up with them, otherwise you'll burn forever for your ignorance.

Makes the God in question seem like a *****e if you ask me, how is a child suppose to help what religion he is born into, why would he have to burn for eternity through no fault of his own?

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

That sounds nice.

But what if the “religious values” endorse discrimination against women or gays… or the teaching of superstition in public school science classes? It gets trickier when you actually spell out what the “religious values” are.

Like I said, there are jerks and fanatics in every belief system, including atheists.

I can't recall meeting anybody who was of devout Jewish, Christian, or Muslim background that discriminated against gays or women. Real adherents of those faiths don't judge other people and generally just stay away from those they deem living a lifestyle that is contrary to their own. That's how all religions should be.

Generalizing won't do anybody any good.

 

[Franklin Richards]

But in general, Christians DO believe that everyone else is going to Hell.

 

[Paroxysm]

To say that atheism requires faith is as dim-witted as saying that disbelief in pixies or leprechauns takes faith. Even if Einstein himself told me there was an elf on my shoulder, I would still ask for proof and I wouldn’t be wrong to ask. – Geoff Mather

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

But in general, Christians DO believe that everyone else is going to Hell.

Again, it's a non issue. Their concept of hell only applies to them and their beliefs. When somebody imposes their own beliefs on others, that's when we start having problems. After all, how does a Christian hell matter to a Buddhist, Jews, or an Atheist?

 

[Franklin Richards]

It matters because it is an insult when someone tells me that I'm going to be in pain for all eternity because I'm not in their club.

It's hurtful despite my believing it or not.

 

[JAK®]

Like I said, there are jerks and fanatics in every belief system, including atheists.

The difference is that those jerks are following doctrine.

Killing people who disagree with you, gays are evil, women are there to serve men, it's all in the Bible. Which means those jerks now have it in writing.

This is why religion is a bad thing. Because then it gives the jerks power to exercise their jerkiness.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

It matters because it is an insult when someone tells me that I'm going to be in pain for all eternity because I'm not in their club.

It's hurtful despite my believing it or not.

C'mon man, you REALLY get hurt over some other person's delusions? If a delusional person came up to you and said in his head you are being raped by clowns you're going to hate him for it? I kind of would laugh and walk away.

 

[Bubonic]

True enough, can't argue with a person who thinks they have a God on their side. When it's your word against His you're S.O.O.L. if you think reasoning is going to get you anywhere.

 

[JAK®]

C'mon man, you REALLY get hurt over some other person's delusions? If a delusional person came up to you and said in his head you are being raped by clowns you're going to hate him for it? I kind of would laugh and walk away.

When people need these delusions to have any chance to be elected President then it's a problem.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

The difference is that those jerks are following doctrine.

Killing people who disagree with you, gays are evil, women are there to serve men, it's all in the Bible. Which means those jerks now have it in writing.

This is why religion is a bad thing. Because then it gives the jerks power to exercise their jerkiness.

The Bible can be interpreted, more importantly, misinterpreted in a million ways. It's not the book that drives people to perform acts of bigotry, it's people themselves. 1000 years ago the Pope had kill or convert orders for non Catholics and now they are kissing Hindu kids in India using the same book as their moral compass.