Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[JAK®]

The Bible can be interpreted, more importantly, misinterpreted in a million ways. It's not the book that drives people to perform acts of bigotry, it's people themselves. 1000 years ago the Pope had kill or convert orders for non Catholics and now they are kissing Hindu kids in India using the same book as their moral compass.

That's the thing, isn't it? The Pope ordered mass killings based on messages from that book (which still remain, even if they are ignored nowadays). That doesn't sound like something you can just ignore.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

When people need these delusions to have any chance to be elected President then it's a problem.

I can agree with that. Secularism is the best policy in America and it should be enforced and advocated as much as freedom of speech.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

That's the thing, isn't it? The Pope ordered mass killings based on messages from that book (which still remain, even if they are ignored nowadays). That doesn't sound like something you can just ignore.

It's all up to the people themselves as to whether they choose to enforce some literal interpretation or to find a meaning that better correlates with their beliefs. Fanatics are heard the loudest unfortunately.

 

[Dr.]

Like I said, there are jerks and fanatics in every belief system, including atheists.

I can't recall meeting anybody who was of devout Jewish, Christian, or Muslim background that discriminated against gays or women. Real adherents of those faiths don't judge other people and generally just stay away from those they deem living a lifestyle that is contrary to their own. That's how all religions should be.

Yes. That’s how religions should be. But it’s not necessarily what they are (your personal experience notwithstanding). Then the question becomes, are we allowed to speak out and criticize when religions aren’t what they should be?

Again, it's a non issue. Their concept of hell only applies to them and their beliefs. When somebody imposes their own beliefs on others, that's when we start having problems. After all, how does a Christian hell matter to a Buddhist, Jews, or an Atheist?

Well... the Rapture supposedly happens today. Now, we might be inclined to chuckle at this and extend few sympathies to the deluded who seem to relish the prospect of others suffering. But how many of those deluded folks sat down with their kids last night to have a heart-to-heart about the end of the world? How many of those kids were utterly terrified?

That seems worthy of criticism.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Yes. That’s how religions should be. But it’s not necessarily what they are (your personal experience notwithstanding). Then the question becomes, are we allowed to speak out and criticize when religions aren’t what they should be?

I think that's understandable. I also think speaking out should involve engaging the religious leaders on these kinds of incidents where a wacko is trying to impose his beliefs on you. You might find that person's beliefs is not in line with that religious community.

Well... the Rapture supposedly happens today. Now, we might be inclined to chuckle at this and extend few sympathies to the deluded who seem to relish the prospect of others suffering. But how many of those deluded folks sat down with their kids last night to have a heart-to-heart about the end of the world? How many of those kids were utterly terrified?

That seems worthy of criticism.

So they scare their kids and themselves for one night and then life goes on.

Whoever is that stupid to believe in estimating the demise of Humanity, (by using out-dated calendars and clocks, like the 2012 thing) in a universe where time is relative, is their own fault.

 

[cryptic name]

We have science now. Religion is unnecessary.

Science can be just as spiritual as religion. The difference is that it's all true;

isn't flat out telling people they're wrong and saying "here, you can believe in this because it's not stupid like our thing" just as bad as what you're condemning?

 

[cryptic name]

Yes. That’s how religions should be. But it’s not necessarily what they are (your personal experience notwithstanding). Then the question becomes, are we allowed to speak out and criticize when religions aren’t what they should be?



Well... the Rapture supposedly happens today. Now, we might be inclined to chuckle at this and extend few sympathies to the deluded who seem to relish the prospect of others suffering. But how many of those deluded folks sat down with their kids last night to have a heart-to-heart about the end of the world? How many of those kids were utterly terrified?

That seems worthy of criticism.

I think many people are vastly over-estimating the amount of christians who actually believe the rapture is happening today.

 

[SuperFerret]

isn't flat out telling people they're wrong and saying "here, you can believe in this because it's not stupid like our thing" just as bad as what you're condemning?

I was just peeking in here, but I need to tell you that I love you for this.

 

[cryptic name]

I was just peeking in here, but I need to tell you that I love you for this.

and I love you for loving me t:

 

[Shemtov]

It depends on whether or not discussion degenerates into hostility.
But why is it that you are surprised that it initially survived? It concerns the very framework of our lives when you think about it, and there is a lot of room for the exchange of ideas and inevitably for some will cause introspection.

I'm just judging based on the history of this board and religion. it usually
"degenerates into hostility."
My religion has nothing to do with it.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I was just peeking in here, but I need to tell you that I love you for this.

This. Same here.

 

[Vile]

See below. Nuff said.

 

[Dark Carnage]

isn't flat out telling people they're wrong and saying "here, you can believe in this because it's not stupid like our thing" just as bad as what you're condemning?

It would be if he was replacing one book for different, but similar book.

Instead, he's replacing one book with an ever growing, ever re-evaluating library.

 

[SuperFerret]

It would be if he was replacing one book for different, but similar book.

Instead, he's replacing one book with an ever growing, ever re-evaluating library.

Based on the input of people most have never met and we have to trust on their word that if we too put in the same amount of time and effort in that pursuit that we'd see the same things.

 

[Dark Carnage]

Point taken.

But there is no false promise to the idea of, "When you're dead, you're dead. But at least you're still part of the Universe dead."

What would anybody gain from having me not believe in an after life?

Has anybody gained anything from having other believe in an after life? More than can be counted.

If I am to take someone at their word, it'll be the group who gained nothing from my beliefs.

 

[SuperFerret]

Just because something can be twisted to serve the whims of the greedy and power-hungry doesn't mean that it's bad, and let's not get ahead of ourselves, science has been exploited just as much.

 

[Assassin]

I think many people are vastly over-estimating the amount of christians who actually believe the rapture is happening today.

it's one group that owns a bunch of radio stations. that's it.

 

[Dark Carnage]

science has been exploited just as much.

Surely, within this discussion, the only form of exploitation that should be considered is to that of promises of lives beyond this one. Which is something science has no stake in.

 

[SuperFerret]

How come that's the only one that should be considered? Because it paints a negative picture of religion and belief without acknowledging that those who've used religion and the promises held within to manipulate people are just doing as humans have done for ages and continue to do with any and all tools at their disposal?

 

[Bubonic]

I'm just judging based on the history of this board and religion. it usually
"degenerates into hostility."
My religion has nothing to do with it.

The hype seems pretty solid these days. I think there are a lot of level headed people here setting the example early on, no one is ganging up on each other, and last time it basically went down without much conflict...

Hey, have a little faith.

 

[TheDreamMaster]

Although I have beliefs, I have no problems with Athiests as long as they respect me. When you start bashing me and telling me I'm stupid, then I will fight back, but same as the other world religions, I'm pretty tolerant. While I hold my beliefs up, I don't discredit the idea that any other religion (or belief in Atheism's casE) may have something just as right.

However, I do find it funny that the Atheism thread popped up just before the predicted rapture.

 

[cryptic name]

It would be if he was replacing one book for different, but similar book.

Instead, he's replacing one book with an ever growing, ever re-evaluating library.

I'm not comparing legitimacy. I'm talking about the very basic idea of telling someone they're wrong and to find spiritual fulfillment in something else that you think is more appropriate. Doesn't matter what that second thing is.

Also the idea of science as a replacement for religion just seems bizarre. They can quite easily coexist.

 

[Dr.]

I think many people are vastly over-estimating the amount of Christians who actually believe the rapture is happening today.

I was responding to the comment that eccentric ideas about hellfire and damnation don’t constitute problematic “religious values.” I.e., they’re personal, private and harm no one else. So I raised the Rapture business – with specific reference to the children involved and the possible traumatic effects it could have on them – as an example of where private “religious values” are not so private or benign.

Also… there are some Christian denominations that see global unrest (especially in the Middle East) as a sign that End Times are near. And to the extent that these believers might attain political power (Sarah Palin belongs to a church with apocalyptic leanings), there’s some question as to how invested they’d be in any peaceful/diplomatic solutions to certain conflicts. After all, such interventions might be thwarting God’s plans for Rapture and Armageddon as described in Revelation.

Again, this is an example of where a private “religious value” extends beyond just those who happen to hold the values. So this brings us back to the question of being able criticize bad ideas – even when they exist within a religious context.

 

[Galactus123]

Of course there is no God. God belongs to same category as Santa Claus and all other childish things.

 

[The Morningstar]

I'm atheist and my belief is that religion was created way back when as basically a method of fear mongering. Scaring the people into behaving. Putting the fear of "god" into them. Attempts at laws and rules didn't work, so they said "Well if you're bad you're going to hell where you'll be tortured for all eternity!"