Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[cryptic name]

The best way to become atheist is to read the Bible.

right, because it's either Judeo-Christian faiths or nothing...

 

[Vile]

The best way to become atheist is to read any Holy Book.

Fixed. t:

 

[Mr.Webs]

I enjoy a myriad of beliefs and philosophies in the world. Makes life much more entertaining.

Variety is nice, as dumb as I think many are.

Agreed. Like Ferret has said, to pick and choose is the best way, in my opinion. You can't just blindly say yes to a label and stay with it your whole life. You need something catered to you, or the whole thing will fall down.

 

[Art_of_Crime]

I think anyone that believes anything blindly is doing a disservice to themselves.

 

[Bubonic]

I like reading these zen Buddhist pamphlets that I find lying around.

Hardly comes of as a religion, can definitely teach you to turn the other cheek and I found that I've taken a lot of it to heart and it helps.

I can also see how it could suit a regime that doesn't want its people to fight for change.

 

[Bubonic]

 

[redhawk23]

I don't understand how science and religion can't easily coexist. They are both means to an end, much like many religions are 'different paths up the same mountain". Now obviously this is a bold statement, since religions such as Christianity/Buddhism or Islam/Judaism both have different goals and rituals and outlooks, but they all have a general cohesiveness that the more open minded should be able to grasp onto.

The way I see it, religion is the frame and science is the color that fills it.

Are the two paths of science and religion really going up the same mountain? Many religions seem to me like they accept foothills as the highest peak and any evidence that there may be something higher is rejected....if we're going to keep this extended metaphor going.

actually what I'm trying to say is religion and science really shouldnt even be considered against eachother, religions are collections of beliefs. Science is not a system of beliefs, its not even a system of facts. What science is is a process designed to percieve in a continuously more objective manner. Theres always going to be subjectivity involved, always error but the goal of science to is to always find new ways to remove that error as much as possible.

Science accepts its inherent fallibility and seeks to correct it, religions proclaim their infallibility and deny evidence to the contrary.

 

[Bubonic]

You know you can be Buddhist and atheist at the same time, right? Atheism says nothing about spirituality, and Buddhism is more about meditation and self than trying to appeal to some outside entity.

Hey Ban Fodder, I think ur teh awsum with a bunch of good answers up and down the evolution thread but you don't have to come off as if you're giving a lecture to everybody do you?

I'm the very same spiritual atheist of which you speak, don't know why you needed to remind me. Been a while since I had some rest so maybe I'm less clear then usual.

 

[Mr.Webs]

Isn't science, like religion, a way of finding out how we are here and why? A Christian could easily argue that while God set everything in motion, science is there to tell us the specifics.

And while it seems that science is easily the more logical of the two, Zen Buddhism along with other Eastern religions usually think things through, and by through I mean all the way through. Zen actually means 'concentrate' in Japanese. That's the point.

Not all religions tell us to go blindly.

 

[Ghostvirus]

I was thinking the other day that without religion, science would not have gotten as far as it did. The oppression of religion is what forced many of the critical thinkers to find answers, or the lack of answers given by a priest to a curious child caused that child to search for answer themselves.

 

[Franklin Richards]

True. But like WWII, perhaps we should learn from those mistakes and move forward and not make the same mistakes.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

I am an atheist.

I do not believe in God. Instead I believe in myself.

When I have a problem, I do not sit at the end of my bed and pray. I just have a good think about what I can do to solve it.

When I was a kid, and raised like most kids to believe that God existed, I was quite depressed. Because I'd beg and beg him to help me. I'd cry so much I couldn't breathe, promise that I'd do anything.

The acceptance that there is no god gave me the strength to figure out how to get what I want by working for it, fighting for it.

Sometimes I think religious people are just taking the easy way out. The belief that if your dreams didn't come true in life it's because it wasn't part of God's plan must be easier than accepting that maybe you just weren't good enough.

People ask me what is the point of life then, if there is no God.

There is no 'point'. It's just bloody wonderful! It is unpredictable, it is exciting, and you can experience so much good.

When I look at the world, I don't marvel at the beauty God created. I just marvel at the beauty.

 

[JAK®]

Truth is stranger than fiction. That's why being an atheist is more fun.

 

[redhawk23]

Isn't science, like religion, a way of finding out how we are here and why? A Christian could easily argue that while God set everything in motion, science is there to tell us the specifics.

And while it seems that science is easily the more logical of the two, Zen Buddhism along with other Eastern religions usually think things through, and by through I mean all the way through. Zen actually means 'concentrate' in Japanese. That's the point.

Not all religions tell us to go blindly.

Science is simply a system of observation. It is inherently logic based. There's error of course, gaps in the logic. Scientific progress comes from closing those gaps. Thats the point of it all. Fallibility is assumed, and the point is to constantly remove that error. Its not the same thing as a religion which is a system of belief. I mean we can get into the semantics of what can really be "observed" and the fact that any sense of reality is really to some degree a leap of faith, but science isnt a competing belief system.
I totally understand what you're getting at though. If you can accept what is observed as not being a rejection of your belief, if you're comfortable with that, then good for you, seriously. I'm sure there are certain things that are hard to reconcile, but that is surly the most mature path.

 

[redhawk23]

Truth is stranger than fiction. That's why being an atheist is more fun.

Quote of the week. I'm going to have to sig this one.

 

[Mr.Webs]

I am an atheist.

I do not believe in God. Instead I believe in myself.

When I have a problem, I do not sit at the end of my bed and pray. I just have a good think about what I can do to solve it.

When I was a kid, and raised like most kids to believe that God existed, I was quite depressed. Because I'd beg and beg him to help me. I'd cry so much I couldn't breathe, promise that I'd do anything.

The acceptance that there is no god gave me the strength to figure out how to get what I want by working for it, fighting for it.

Sometimes I think religious people are just taking the easy way out. The belief that if your dreams didn't come true in life it's because it wasn't part of God's plan must be easier than accepting that maybe you just weren't good enough.

People ask me what is the point of life then, if there is no God.

There is no 'point'. It's just bloody wonderful! It is unpredictable, it is exciting, and you can experience so much good.

When I look at the world, I don't marvel at the beauty God created. I just marvel at the beauty.

This. A thousand times, this. Very well said, my friend. I'm almost jealous.

 

[redhawk23]

It's easy to point at religious people and just say they are taking the easy way out. While that may be the case for some people I dont think that is the case for everyone. Faith is hard. So often it is not rewarded, and yet, hopefulsuicide, just as your lack of faith gave you strength, others find their strength through their beleif in God.

 

[Gotham Knight]

Quote of the week. I'm going to have to sig this one.

If only it were true and not complete troll bait.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

It's easy to point at religious people and just say they are taking the easy way out. While that may be the case for some people I dont think that is the case for everyone. Faith is hard. So often it is not rewarded, and yet, hopefulsuicide, just as your lack of faith gave you strength, others find their strength through their beleif in God.

I can imagine that Faith is hard, but only if it's chosen. And a lot of people don't really choose it.

For a child who has been raised in the belief God exists, whose family continues to nurture/encourage that belief, it is IMO much more difficult to start questioning those beliefs than it is to just carry on living by that system as a form of habit.

For me atheism isn't a choice. It is a matter of logic. Which is incredibly easy.

Choosing to have faith in the idea of outside forces taking care of everybody; in a design or 'purpose' to life that is out of our comprehension and there for nothing for us to worry about; in a beginning that can be defined and came about for a reason; and in a 'soul', a part of us that NEVER dies... Well it all sounds very comforting.

But for someone like me to have faith in it, would be very difficult.

Probably because I disagree with faith altogether as a concept in adulthood. It is no different than a child believing in magic to me.

I remember a lovely line in a little princess: 'Because it's magic. Magic has to be believed, that's the only way it's real.'

Same applies to religion IMO

 

[hopefuldreamer]

This. A thousand times, this. Very well said, my friend. I'm almost jealous.

Thankyou

 

[redhawk23]

I can imagine that Faith is hard, but only if it's chosen. And a lot of people don't really choose it.

For a child who has been raised in the belief God exists, whose family continues to nurture/encourage that belief, it is IMO much more difficult to start questioning those beliefs than it is to just carry on living by that system as a form of habit.

For me atheism isn't a choice. It is a matter of logic. Which is incredibly easy.

Choosing to have faith in the idea of outside forces taking care of everybody; in a design or 'purpose' to life that is out of our comprehension and there for nothing for us to worry about; in a beginning that can be defined and came about for a reason; and in a 'soul', a part of us that NEVER dies... Well it all sounds very comforting.

But for someone like me to have faith in it, would be very difficult.

Probably because I disagree with faith altogether as a concept in adulthood. It is no different than a child believing in magic to me.

I remember a lovely line in a little princess: 'Because it's magic. Magic has to be believed, that's the only way it's real.'

Same applies to religion IMO

There definitely is a comfort factor. However I'd argue that subtly there is a comfort factor to logic. It comes with the assumption that we are correct. It comes with assumption that we are actually capable of figuring things out, that the world is an understandable place. We assume that this isn't some insane Plato's Cave situation, that surly we can trust in observation. Its discomforting to doubt your own sense of reality. While I understand and even agree with where your coming from certainly you see that this argument is still assuming certainty.

Also theres different lines of logic.

 

[redhawk23]

If only it were true and not complete troll bait.

It made me laugh, what can I say.

 

[redhawk23]

I can imagine that Faith is hard, but only if it's chosen. And a lot of people don't really choose it.

For a child who has been raised in the belief God exists, whose family continues to nurture/encourage that belief, it is IMO much more difficult to start questioning those beliefs than it is to just carry on living by that system as a form of habit.

For me atheism isn't a choice. It is a matter of logic. Which is incredibly easy.

Choosing to have faith in the idea of outside forces taking care of everybody; in a design or 'purpose' to life that is out of our comprehension and there for nothing for us to worry about; in a beginning that can be defined and came about for a reason; and in a 'soul', a part of us that NEVER dies... Well it all sounds very comforting.

But for someone like me to have faith in it, would be very difficult.

Probably because I disagree with faith altogether as a concept in adulthood. It is no different than a child believing in magic to me.

I remember a lovely line in a little princess: 'Because it's magic. Magic has to be believed, that's the only way it's real.'

Same applies to religion IMO

Also, yes its easy to have faith when you are a child, but quite wrongly you assume that religious folk keep that mindset as they get older. You are assuming those of faith never think critically about their faith. While many have large blindspots, I can tell you this is not the case. Some of the most devout people from any faith devote their lives and careers to reexamining the meaning and purpose and validity of their traditions

To assume that billions of people are simply never growing up, while you are inherently more mature in your thinking, which is what you are implying, is extremely condescending. This is counterproductive to any discussion on the matter.

 

[redhawk23]

No I don't think it is the default because as you and I both agree it has been beneficial for the species. So overtime, that adaptation becomes part of that species through evolution, the evolution of the brain. That's like saying that birds have feathers because that is their default. They didn't at one time and they might not in the future. But for a long, long time, birds have had feathers and man has had religion. It's just the current default.

I know I'm responding to a post from about 3 weeks ago, but physical adaptations and social constructs are not really comparible.

 

[JAK®]

If only it were true and not complete troll bait.

I was being flippant but I believe what I said. Back when I first realised that what I was being told at Catholic school didn't ring true to me, I thought that it was a shame that all the cool, wacky, unbelievable stuff couldn't come with it.

But then I started finding out more about science and I began to hear stuff that was just as weird. The difference is, we have evidence for it.
[YT]
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Just listen to that. And realise that it is all true.

I suggest you look up more of his stuff.