Atheism : Love it or Leave it? - Part 2

[Bubonic]

ObakeTora, I respect a lot for accepting your nephews faith as a means to a spiritual end.

But like Scooter I'm a bit shocked that you seem to believe that through your prayers a man died, implying that the Lord above considered your plight and decided it be better for you to have a good school year than to let a man continue to exist... Because he was obviously a *****ebag for being a boldface liar.

That's a bit preposterous to me.

Plus it sounds like your vision came in the aftermath of being buzzed out on booze and "devil weed"... Needless to say that it might of played a factor in the hallucination, it was a cocktail of guilt, drugs and a predisposition to belief.

I do respect the core of what seems to be your belief system though. Peace should be the religion of choice.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Wow God sounds like a dick. To really kill a man over that. That aint right!

 

[SuperFerret]

It could've just been a coincidence.

 

[Bubonic]

I'll be so bold as to say obviously.
If there is a God I doubt he puts out hits on people or helps them win football games.

I wonder how an atheist would react if he saw Christopher Hitchens appear out of the fog?

 

[SuperFerret]

Personally, I don't even believe that God has a chosen species, so I don't think that any type of specific prayer really has any tangible effect.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

So if that's the case you would never kill a mouse or roach or fly, etc if you saw one? Because you shouldn't kill, so is killing them bad if God has never chose a species.
I know im dissecting your words, I just want your thoughts.

 

[Bubonic]

Hey, for all we know there are other worlds other than ours.
Maybe one of these have the actual chosen beings.

I never bought the "we are created in His image" thing based on the theory of evolution.

Would seem ass backwards that our species would be born out of another, yet God residing above looks the rest of us evolved apes.

That's probably part of the poetry of scripture though, not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Doomed_hero]

I have been a atheist for a long time. I don't see any reason or hard evidence to support that any form of god has existed. I respect others choice to belive up to the point it starts to insult, hurt, or destory others over that belief. I have met people of strong faith that use there beiefs to be better people, and sadly a majority of the time I see it used to justify actions that should not be ok by any noble higher power. A person should live there life to there full potential and thats how i live mine without fear of judgement or disobaying text written for a hundreds and thousands of years ago. I think if we ever are going to survive and grow we need to stop having a fight about something that happen a thousand years ago as well.

 

[SuperFerret]

So if that's the case you would never kill a mouse or roach or fly, etc if you saw one? Because you shouldn't kill, so is killing them bad if God has never chose a species.
I know im dissecting your words, I just want your thoughts.

Where does it say I believe killing is wrong? Every living thing needs to kill something to survive. I just think it's terribly arrogant and human-centric to think that we're special, but that's how things go with humanity. We're just another species in a long line of species, no better or worse than any other.

 

[Bubonic]

Sums it up.
[YT]zJM4EBuL82o[/YT]

 

[Vile]

All religion is based one 2 facts:

Blind Faith and Geography.

Jesus, Allah, Zeus, Jupiter, Ra...There is no more truth to one then there are to the others.

 

[ObakeTora]

ObakeTora, I respect a lot for accepting your nephews faith as a means to a spiritual end.

But like Scooter I'm a bit shocked that you seem to believe that through your prayers a man died, implying that the Lord above considered your plight and decided it be better for you to have a good school year than to let a man continue to exist... Because he was obviously a *****ebag for being a boldface liar.

In all fairness I was praying for my parents to send me to home school. I didn't ask for the man to die. That was due in part to his unhealthy living catching up to him, and the fact it seemed to rule his life over teaching. But to be honest I wasn't saddened by his death either. The Lord works in mysterious ways.

That's a bit preposterous to me.

Plus it sounds like your vision came in the aftermath of being buzzed out on booze and "devil weed"... Needless to say that it might of played a factor in the hallucination, it was a cocktail of guilt, drugs and a predisposition to belief.

After it happened I ran and got my mother to show her what I prayed for, I expected someone to attribute the vision I received from the alcohol and weed.

I do respect the core of what seems to be your belief system though. Peace should be the religion of choice.

Of course, as a matter fact, a woman who was my friend for 10 years, who knew she could bug me for anything went to a girls parents and lied on me. I see her everyday, cackling in front of her garage, and when I let spite build up in me, I look at her for the sad person she is trying to hide from the world. Yea what she did was messed up, and it turned into a big old mess that was cleared up because of the truth, but in the end I forgave her, if something bad happened to her it wouldn't change things. I guess this new chapter in my life I'm starting to learn how to forgive. I'd want someone to forgive me if I was sorry...

I know I'm not the only one reading this.

I kinda deserved it for boozing around in a third world country and using an atm machine in plain site. Something I will never do again.

 

[Sun_Down]

LOVE atheism.

I see religion as a way that primative peoples sought to understand their world and give coherence to phenomena they could not explain (like the weather, death, etc.). But science has given us a better way to understand those events, without the need for god or religion. Some relgious folks attack science (particularly evolution), but that is both baseless and damaging. Science is inherently imperfect, and evolution is indeed a theory, but it represents the best answer that the best scientific minds of our time have come up with. To say, "it's just a theory, religion is just as valid" is an untenable position.

I know some people use religion to guide their morals, but again I see no need. It's possible to treat people decently and avoid actions that cause objective harm, like theft, rape, unjustified homicide (I see no reason to include illicit drug use or sex out of wedlock categorically in this group).

Many people take a live-and-let-live approach and just say that everyone should be able to believe whatever they want. Part of me feels this way, as my entire family and many friends are religious, but I also see how dangerous and damaging religion can be. I am disgusted to see the way religion, morality and social conservatism have gotten intermingled with each other and exploited in win elections and induce the credulous to part with their money. Christians still run the U.S. and it's not always a good thing - forcible rape bills, Tennessee's "don't say gay bill", Don't Ask/Don't Tell, textbooks teaching creationism, general lack of rights for gays and women, etc. are all examples of Christian thuggery which hurts people.

So I'm torn - many of my loved ones are good and decent Christians, and it would be hypocritical for me to condone militant atheism - but I don't see religion as a harmless choice of morals.

 

[Mr.Webs]

I don't understand how science and religion can't easily coexist. They are both means to an end, much like many religions are 'different paths up the same mountain". Now obviously this is a bold statement, since religions such as Christianity/Buddhism or Islam/Judaism both have different goals and rituals and outlooks, but they all have a general cohesiveness that the more open minded should be able to grasp onto.

The way I see it, religion is the frame and science is the color that fills it.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Because Science steps on their little book and says none of this bull **** is true. And then they wanna take things out the bible and disregard those things when you can't just pick chose. If these are invalid things, then shouldn't be all of these then.

 

[SuperFerret]

Why can't you just pick and choose? Why must religion be some kind of label that locks you in to a set of unalterable beliefs?

 

[Doomed_hero]

cause most people belive in a god that can do no wrong. If you point to one thing that god has gotten wrong, then that god is not all powerful and it taints there whole belief structure

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

I just don't understand how people believe in the bible. To me if that's where your beliefs come from, well you got issues.

 

[Bubonic]

I just don't understand how people believe in the bible. To me if that's where your beliefs come from, well you got issues.

When you were a kid did you not look up to your parents as infallible beings?
Where you not filled with wonder and exhaustively asking questions about the world around you?

What if your parents had told you it all stop and started with God?
As your mind was developing they filled it with scripture, told you of the magic of God and the world He created, told you of heaven and hell, told you to laws of life, brought you to churches that seemed larger than life, exposed you to the rituals, made you part of the rituals, everyone you ever grew up with reinforced the beliefs that your parents passed on to you, what if that was the only reality you ever knew? What if you were told early on that in your life many might challenge your beliefs, confront you with all these fancy scenarios trying to debunk your God, and from an early age you were told to reject them, that you were told that faith trumped all else?

Why would it be your fault for believing what seemed self-evident, why dare risk damnation by doubting the word of God?

These people don't have issues, it's just the world as they know it, as it was taught to them, it is the world as it was taught to their parents and their grandparents and so on and so forth further back then they care to remember.

At that level it isn't even brainwashing because there wasn't anything permitted to fill those brains other then what they've been made to believe and their faith is as natural to them as the need to eat, drink and sleep.

I apologize for the rant, the run on sentences and how this might feel like a condescending lecture, but I just feel you can't be calling people stupid for something they can't really help.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

When you were a kid did you not look up to your parents as infallible beings?
Where you not filled with wonder and exhaustively asking questions about the world around you?

What if your parents had told you it all stop and started with God?
As your mind was developing they filled it with scripture, told you of the magic of God and the world He created, told you of heaven and hell, told you to laws of life, brought you to churches that seemed larger than life, exposed you to the rituals, made you part of the rituals, everyone you ever grew up with reinforced the beliefs that your parents passed on to you, what if that was the only reality you ever knew? What if you were told early on that in your life many might challenge your beliefs, confront you with all these fancy scenarios trying to debunk your God, and from an early age you were told to reject them, that you were told that faith trumped all else?

Why would it be your fault for believing what seemed self-evident, why dare risk damnation by doubting the word of God?

These people don't have issues, it's just the world as they know it, as it was taught to them, it is the world as it was taught to their parents and their grandparents and so on and so forth further back then they care to remember.

At that level it isn't even brainwashing because there wasn't anything permitted to fill those brains other then what they've been made to believe and their faith is as natural to them as the need to eat, drink and sleep.

I apologize for the rant, the run on sentences and how this might feel like a condescending lecture, but I just feel you can't be calling people stupid for something they can't really help.

Oh trust me, I know how they feel. I was raised in the Catholic church. I went to Catholic school for ten years. I was an altar boy for 3 years. I use to love going to church and I would always praise the lord but then I read. I read an article about Darwinism. I was interested, so I read up on the theory of evolution and that led to me reading on other things, other religions, other ways of believing. And the thought that came to me, is all of this **** is ********. From then on, I have never looked back.

Hell I am sorry for those people. But it pisses me off, when somebody asks me what my religion is and I say I am an atheist and they call me a devil worshiper and tell me im going to hell. But if I ask them why they believe in god, they tell me oh because of the bible. If you ask most these people what they're favorite book in the bible is, they cant even ****ing tell you. That pisses me off, when you dont even know why you believe.

You dont know how many times a person has called me devil instead of middle name Dimitri. I never ever bring up what I believe unless somebody is being obnoxious with their faith because it's none of their business.
I just wish people would do some ****ing research, and look up ****. If you wanna believe the earth is 6000 years old and that man can walk on water after reading on other religions and other beliefs. Cool, but untill the majority of people do that. We will still have stupid ignorance and until that's over I will always hate religion.

But Yeah im gonna end this long rant now lol.

 

[Bubonic]

Hearing your background definitely helps me understand the angst you have concerning the subject.

I live in an entirely different world than you and am lucky not to have to feel persecuted like you do. I've heard the contempt for atheist in some parts of America borders on the homicidal.

You got lucky, you got access to knowledge and you dug in deep and never looked back.

They don't want you biting down on the apple of knowledge. They probably feel your parents failed you for letting you do so.

Holding onto that hostility wont help you though, just eats you up from the inside out. When you get a chance move on to greener pastures.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Hearing your background definitely helps me understand the angst you have concerning the subject.

I live in an entirely different world than you and am lucky not to have to feel persecuted like you do. I've heard the contempt for atheist in some parts of America borders on the homicidal.

You got lucky, you got access to knowledge and you dug in deep and never looked back.

They don't want you biting down on the apple of knowledge. They probably feel your parents failed you for letting you do so.

Holding onto that hostility wont help you though, just eats you up from the inside out. When you get a chance move on to greener pastures.

I try to just say **** em. Their the dumb ones. But every time I hear a stupid comment about atheist at my school, my blood boils.

 

[WildcatNC]

I enjoy a myriad of beliefs and philosophies in the world. Makes life much more entertaining.

Variety is nice, as dumb as I think many are.

 

[Galactus123]

The best way to become atheist is to read the Bible.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

The best way to become atheist is to read the Bible.

So true.