Infinity War Avengers: Infinity War SPOILER User Review Thread - Part 2

Yes, if the soul stone is what Feige said it was, a place where time and space do not exist, kinda like the nexus in star trek generations, then people could meet up in there and change whatever happened without there being time travel. This would also match the earlier leaked photos from Avengers 4 featuring Loki, Gamora and Heimdall all back.

You're gonna have to provide a link or quote from a reputable source where Feige said there's no time travel in A4 and it's got to be recent. And even then... We were purposefully misled on a bunch of things concerning this film in the lead up to it's release.
 
I'm pretty sure A4 won't be an homage to ST: generations...there's totally going to be something time-travelly going on. If Feige even said that, there's some semantics involved, or like Krypton said (politely) he misled.
 
Rewatched for the first time tonight... Man, it holds up. I think Strange and the Guardians remain the MVPs. Thanos and his animation remains spectacularly nuanced.

Pros: I definitely felt better about the characters with minimal screentime, and the Wakanda fight. There was so much to accomplish, and knowing I wasn't going to get as much Cap as I anticipated definitely softened the blow. It made sense for the pacing and the story they were trying to tell. The Russos and co. were laser-focused on the story that needed telling, and boy they told it.

Also I forgot about one of the best lines, which was Strange first encountering the Mad Titan: "Oh yeah. You're definitely much more of a 'Thanos'."

Cons: The final act is still great. But it is impossible to replicate the sensation of dread from the first screening. Still remains one of my favorite theater experiences, though.

But oh boy it definitely still whets the appetite for A4. I LOVE the lineup for A4. All the OG Avengers plus Scott, Hope, Nebula, Rocket, and Carol. They might as well make May 2019 'Avengers month' at the local theater. Nothing else stands a chance after this.
 
I def agree, but looking at it based on the 6yr math Tony gave us in IW, everything sort of lines up on that math. So, Marvel has been about 90% effective with their time line, LOL!!!

But yeah, I am expecting a 2-3 year time jump.

Yeah I think the one big blunder that everyone can agree on is the Homecoming, someone should have stopped that before it got released lol.

But wait, a 2-3 year time jump between IW and A4?

You have to assume that if there is a jump of a few years between IW and A4, it will be undone. Either that or we get a Spider-Man sequel set 4-5 years after Homecoming (unless they set it before IW which would be odd, or between IW and A4 which would be odder).


Guys, a movie can have more than one time jump. :p


Feige already said there will NOT be time travel in Avengers 4. So if they are bringing people back, its either alternate timeline they jump into, or they go into or BEYOND the soul realm in the soul stone.


Yeah, I don't think Feige actually said that. And even if he did, I am sure it was verbalized "creatively". :D
 
Rewatched for the first time tonight... Man, it holds up. I think Strange and the Guardians remain the MVPs. Thanos and his animation remains spectacularly nuanced.

Pros: I definitely felt better about the characters with minimal screentime, and the Wakanda fight. There was so much to accomplish, and knowing I wasn't going to get as much Cap as I anticipated definitely softened the blow. It made sense for the pacing and the story they were trying to tell. The Russos and co. were laser-focused on the story that needed telling, and boy they told it.

Also I forgot about one of the best lines, which was Strange first encountering the Mad Titan: "Oh yeah. You're definitely much more of a 'Thanos'."

Cons: The final act is still great. But it is impossible to replicate the sensation of dread from the first screening. Still remains one of my favorite theater experiences, though.

But oh boy it definitely still whets the appetite for A4. I LOVE the lineup for A4. All the OG Avengers plus Scott, Hope, Nebula, Rocket, and Carol. They might as well make May 2019 'Avengers month' at the local theater. Nothing else stands a chance after this.

It was a good line. Plus it was one of the few moments Thanos seems to really be caught off guard in the movie a moment later when Iron Man crashes that debris into him.
 
It was a good line. Plus it was one of the few moments Thanos seems to really be caught off guard in the movie a moment later when Iron Man crashes that debris into him.

Yeah, and I'd expand on that... The Russos and Marvel are great at their jobs because no matter how mental the spectacle gets, they ALWAYS remember to ground the audience by allowing the actors to really play.

The main thing that makes the confrontation on Titan so much more effective than anything in 'Ultron' is that so much of it is sold on Brolin's performance capture as Thanos: The nuance of his reactions to everything being thrown at him... whereas Ultron just devolved into a CGI cartoon fighting other cartoons, you can see Thanos going through a whole gamut of emotions... curiousity, amusement, anger, frustration, sadness.

And I loved how the Russos played the bit of Strange going through alternate futures for laughs. It was so controlled and funny, while also reminding the audience how truly weird and mysterious it is to witness Strange doing his thing. Great stuff.
 
Nice review, but what do you mean Star Lord's Martha moment?

This film had nowhere near as bad of a scene that BvS had.

The scene on Titan in which an unlikely mixture of Avengers/GoTG manage to somehow subdue Thanos only for Star Lord to mess it all up. The 1st thing that popped into my head when I saw it the 1st time around, was it reminded me of BvS's Martha scene right down to Thanos gargling words.

I didn't care for that scene, or that moment within the scene should I say, at all. I wouldn't say it's as bad as the BvS Martha scene/moment, but it certainly wasn't good IMO. Good idea, but for me I didn't like the execution.
 
The scene on Titan in which an unlikely mixture of Avengers/GoTG manage to somehow subdue Thanos only for Star Lord to mess it all up. The 1st thing that popped into my head when I saw it the 1st time around, was it reminded me of BvS's Martha scene right down to Thanos gargling words.

I didn't care for that scene, or that moment within the scene should I say, at all. I wouldn't say it's as bad as the BvS Martha scene/moment, but it certainly wasn't good IMO. Good idea, but for me I didn't like the execution.

I'll defend that moment to the death. If Star-Lord had messed up because Thanos had crushed his Walkman, it would have been annoying and silly. But he had just found out the woman he loved had been murdered.

The biggest draw of watching superhero matchups is watching the interactions between heroes/actors and seeing their differences defined. Star-Lord has grown, but he's still emotionally immature compared to Tony, and they could be too-similar characters if handled poorly. But Tony, for all his narcissism, has grown to the point where he chides Strange for giving up the Time Stone in exchange for his own life. Star-Lord ain't there yet. Totally in character.
 
I'll defend that moment to the death. If Star-Lord had messed up because Thanos had crushed his Walkman, it would have been annoying and silly. But he had just found out the woman he loved had been murdered.

The biggest draw of watching superhero matchups is watching the interactions between heroes/actors and seeing their differences defined. Star-Lord has grown, but he's still emotionally immature compared to Tony, and they could be too-similar characters if handled poorly. But Tony, for all his narcissism, has grown to the point where he chides Strange for giving up the Time Stone in exchange for his own life. Star-Lord ain't there yet. Totally in character.

I didn't so much find it annoying or silly, I've no problem with characters having emotional reactions or realisations to something they've been seen or heard. In both IW & BvS for Star Lord & Batman, I didn't like how these emotional tipping points came to pass, I appreciate what they were going for, it just didn't work, at least for me anyway but to each their own.

I agree with everything else you've said, I think it was completely in this Star Lord's nature to react this sort of way to such news & has done in the past, look at the Ego scene in which he tells him he put the tumor in his mother's head.
 
I'll defend that moment to the death. If Star-Lord had messed up because Thanos had crushed his Walkman, it would have been annoying and silly. But he had just found out the woman he loved had been murdered.

The biggest draw of watching superhero matchups is watching the interactions between heroes/actors and seeing their differences defined. Star-Lord has grown, but he's still emotionally immature compared to Tony, and they could be too-similar characters if handled poorly. But Tony, for all his narcissism, has grown to the point where he chides Strange for giving up the Time Stone in exchange for his own life. Star-Lord ain't there yet. Totally in character.

Star Lord is also prone to letting his emotions get the better of him. He started blasting Ego away as soon as Ego said he killed his mother, without asking for an explanation or letting him explain himself. So the Titan moment was totally in-keeping with his character.
 
The scene on Titan in which an unlikely mixture of Avengers/GoTG manage to somehow subdue Thanos only for Star Lord to mess it all up. The 1st thing that popped into my head when I saw it the 1st time around, was it reminded me of BvS's Martha scene right down to Thanos gargling words.

I didn't care for that scene, or that moment within the scene should I say, at all. I wouldn't say it's as bad as the BvS Martha scene/moment, but it certainly wasn't good IMO. Good idea, but for me I didn't like the execution.

It didn't remind me of the Martha scene in any way. Star-Lord acted genuinely, because he just found out his love had died. His motivation is justified.

Bruce suddenly forgot his motivations and became friends with Supes because he realised their mothers had the same name.
 
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The scene on Titan in which an unlikely mixture of Avengers/GoTG manage to somehow subdue Thanos only for Star Lord to mess it all up. The 1st thing that popped into my head when I saw it the 1st time around, was it reminded me of BvS's Martha scene right down to Thanos gargling words.

I didn't care for that scene, or that moment within the scene should I say, at all. I wouldn't say it's as bad as the BvS Martha scene/moment, but it certainly wasn't good IMO. Good idea, but for me I didn't like the execution.

I would agree that the problem lies in the execution. The scene just took too damn long. Foolishly attacking the space god your teammates are valiantly trying to disarm wasn't a "bang bang" moment like Quill's response to Ego's reveal. He had time to have a conversation and be warned about the consequences by Tony but acted anyway.

I would have preferred if he asked the question, saw Mantis crying and took the shot. I can understand wanting to draw out the tension, but some editing would have kept Peter from looking so foolish.
 
It didn't remind me of the Martha scene in any way. Star-Lord acted genuinely, because he just found out his love had died. His motivation is justified.

Bruce suddenly forgot his motivations and became friends with Supes because he realised their mothers had the same name.

:up:

In IW, Star-Lord's reason for reacting/acting the way he did was clear and his emotions were easy to identify with. Anyone might have reacted the way he did. In fact, it would have been unrealistic for Quill to keep his s### together in that situation given what we know about his personality. He was the same way when he found out that Ego killed his mother.
 
Wakanda

The fight scenes are rather bland. I must admit it takes one hell of a writer and fight coordinator to put together coherent battles for these powered up heroes, but I found what I saw to be somewhat unimaginative and cut away too quickly. Where was a scene with the heroes unveiling their battle plan? Where was the strategy? I mean two of the best at it are out there with BP and Cap. Then when Thanos arrives we get the showdown in some obscure bushes?

Wakanda itself serves as more of a forced set piece for one of Marvel's infamous 3rd acts, which leaves BP and his fellow country persons feeling like cameos. More should have been done to explain/portray the decision to provide sanctuary knowing what inevitably was going to follow. We didn't even get the famous panel of BP taking on Black Dwarf.

A couple of things:
1. Cap's strategy was simply to stall Thanos' forces long enough for Shuri to get the Mind Stone out of Vision and Scarlet Witch to destroy it.
2. Not sure how you can call Wakanda a "forced set piece". They needed to be there to A. get Shuri's help and B. Have an army at their back to help protect Vision.
3. I would have liked to see BP taking on Black Dwarf, but there's only so much time in a movie before it becomes over stuffed.

Thanos

On a surface level the movie works if you're fine with the lip service paid regarding Thanos and his supposed "love" of Gamora. I feel that the moment wasn't earned only serving as a pseudo plot twist and to allow him to acquire the soul stone. Because I've seen prior MCU films - that dynamic doesn't feel natural to me therefore less impact. We're talking about someone who made his daughters fight each other.

While, in our definition, what Thanos felt toward Gamora wouldn't be called love in the conventional sense, it's probably the closest he has to the feeling which is clearly enough for the Soul Stone. Also, there were REPEATED references in the first GotG that she was Thanos favorite daughter.

Civil War

Marvel spent an entire film setting up the fraction and the Accords. Then in this film its impact is nigh minimal. Rhodes disobeys orders in 2.5 seconds. BP and Wakanda ignored them completely - even though he signed. Tony gives Banner just some vague acknowledgement that he and Cap aren't on speaking terms.

All that's left now is the Cap/Tony arc, which obviously gets squashed in A4. Perhaps the accords play more of a role in that film, I just doubt it. If anything it's about to get even more cosmic.

The point of the Accords was to separate the Avengers. There's always the possibility that if the Avengers had been united they could have been formulated a plan to defeat Thanos (for example, Vision and Wanda wouldn't need to sneak around and as such, Vision isn't ambushed and is able to be the powerhouse we all know he is in battle). Also, Cap doesn't have the full force of the US government behind him to repeal Thanos' invasion as well. Civil War weakened Earth's foremost protectors allowing for Thanos' eventual success.

Other

Not having the opening fight on the Asgardian ship is still a huge missed opportunity to me considering all the players involved. They deserved a bit more respect. I mean think about it - Korg, Valkyrie, etc were all major players in Ragnarok then suddenly no mention? Nothing? The whole Asgardian ship was a direct continuation from Ragnarok so to gloss over it feels wrong.

I agree on a surface level, but, like I said above, you only have so much time in a movie and this one was already jam packed. Plus, I think Thor's search for his people was set up on purpose for his fourth movie.

The film also repeats a lot of themes/narratives - sacrifice being one. Vision wants to sacrifice himself, as does Gamora. Conversely Thanos is willing to sacrifice Gamora for a stone. I would have preferred one major sacrifice that turned the tide of the film.

I think that's called symmetry.

Power levels are still all over the map. The Black Order in particular suffers from this to the point where my suspension of disbelief lapsed. I never thought I'd say this, but I think maybe this movie tipped too far into focusing on Thanos. I'm assuming the heroes will receive more of the focus in part 2.

The writers already discussed the Black Orders' power levels. They clearly made them "weaker" than the books because the heroes wouldn't stand a chance at their comics power levels. That said, they are all still powerful enough that it takes 2-3 Avengers to defeat them each. That's pretty darn powerful.

Good review though.
 
It didn't remind me of the Martha scene in any way. Star-Lord acted genuinely, because he just found out his love had died. His motivation is justified.

Bruce suddenly forgot his motivations and became friends with Supes because he realised their mothers had the same name.

Both of them had emotional reactions or moreso of a realisation in Bruce's case, that made them look like jackasses in the grand scheme of things. I've no problem with the emotional reaction from either, I think both are genuine reactions both also completely fitting in character.

Star Lord was angered by the thought that Thanos more than certainly murdered Gamora thus reacted very rash & foolishly that ended up costing everyone. Which is fine, because it's been shown the MCU Star Lord is prone to these sorts of violent rash emotional reactions ie Ego.

With Bruce he was the opposite way around, he was acting in anger for the majority of the film only to come to the realisation that he was perhaps overreacting & that he was about to go too far or make a mistake. Again, fine with this as well from a character perspective.

I would agree that the problem lies in the execution. The scene just took too damn long. Foolishly attacking the space god your teammates are valiantly trying to disarm wasn't a "bang bang" moment like Quill's response to Ego's reveal. He had time to have a conversation and be warned about the consequences by Tony but acted anyway.

I would have preferred if he asked the question, saw Mantis crying and took the shot. I can understand wanting to draw out the tension, but some editing would have kept Peter from looking so foolish.

Exactly!

I think I'd have rather seen a fully conscious Thanos & Star Lord have the conversation (followed by anger) on what happened to Gamora as opposed to a subdued & all but defeated Thanos. As you say anything that would have made Star Lord not look so foolish given that he knew exactly what was at stake.

Perhaps having him & Dr. Strange greet Thanos on his arrival, then Star Lord's anger leads to the battle albeit perhaps prematurely.
 
I will point this out as I think it's an,issue. Many are defending Quill's actions that it works because it's in character.

How about this?


It shows there has been no real character growth three films deep. What Quill did here is pretty much what he would have done in similar circumstances when we first meet him. So... How has his journey from then to now affected him? Compare that to say Tony who was quite different here than he has usually been or the presentation of Strange who only had on entry in the MCU but was written more subtle and confident in IW.

Discuss.

(Sits back eating my lunch)
 
That's the difference between a man and a dude :sly:

Drax foreshadowed this :cwink:
 
I will point this out as I think it's an,issue. Many are defending Quill's actions that it works because it's in character.

How about this?


It shows there has been no real character growth three films deep. What Quill did here is pretty much what he would have done in similar circumstances when we first meet him. So... How has his journey from then to now affected him? Compare that to say Tony who was quite different here than he has usually been or the presentation of Strange who only had on entry in the MCU but was written more subtle and confident in IW.

Discuss.

(Sits back eating my lunch)

Quill became much more family centered over the course of the series. He wasn't just a loner going around the universe without attachment. He had a girl he loved, his friends, and was helping to raise Groot with the gang. So Quill has a level of attachment to others he never had, so when he loses the most important one of new said family, it broke him. There also I would imagine is a level of failure in his mind because he couldn't do anything to prevent Thanos killing her. Yes, he was willing to kill her because he loved her and she asked him to, but her actual death was out of his hands and part of Thanos's plan.
 
I will point this out as I think it's an,issue. Many are defending Quill's actions that it works because it's in character.

How about this?


It shows there has been no real character growth three films deep. What Quill did here is pretty much what he would have done in similar circumstances when we first meet him. So... How has his journey from then to now affected him? Compare that to say Tony who was quite different here than he has usually been or the presentation of Strange who only had on entry in the MCU but was written more subtle and confident in IW.

Discuss.

(Sits back eating my lunch)

Arrested development was just one amusing aspect of Starks personality in IM1. Its Quills defining characteristic. Its all you really need to know about the guy. If that changes its gonna take a while.

Plus the fact that Quill is able to pull the trigger tells me he has experienced some growth.
 
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Arrested development was just one amusing aspect of Starks personality in IM1. Its Quills defining characteristic. Its all you really need to know about the guy.

Yet when Stark found out Bucky killed his mother, he was very much willing to let Zemo escape and kill him in rage. Just pointing out Stark has had similar issues controlling his emotions.
 
A couple of things:
1. Cap's strategy was simply to stall Thanos' forces long enough for Shuri to get the Mind Stone out of Vision and Scarlet Witch to destroy it.
2. Not sure how you can call Wakanda a "forced set piece". They needed to be there to A. get Shuri's help and B. Have an army at their back to help protect Vision.
3. I would have liked to see BP taking on Black Dwarf, but there's only so much time in a movie before it becomes over stuffed.

1. Stalling isn't the strategy I'm referring to. I'm talking out on the battlefield. The only thing decided was when to let down the forcefield. Considering all the heroes out there on the battlefield I expected a lot more coordination and definitive plan of attack instead of basically a street fight. Even if the stone had been destroyed they still needed to repel the invaders.

2. While what you say is true - again what it's lacking is a tangible reason for BP risking the nation of Wakanda like that to begin with. Due to time constraints that element is paid lip service. That whole sequence needed more room to breath, but the focus was to press forward with a big action sequence.

While, in our definition, what Thanos felt toward Gamora wouldn't be called love in the conventional sense, it's probably the closest he has to the feeling which is clearly enough for the Soul Stone. Also, there were REPEATED references in the first GotG that she was Thanos favorite daughter.

But the audience generally speaking is conventional. I'm not sure people can relate to making the children they supposedly "love" battle to near death. The favorite daughter line happened once in GOTG and again it's lip service.

The point of the Accords was to separate the Avengers. There's always the possibility that if the Avengers had been united they could have been formulated a plan to defeat Thanos (for example, Vision and Wanda wouldn't need to sneak around and as such, Vision isn't ambushed and is able to be the powerhouse we all know he is in battle). Also, Cap doesn't have the full force of the US government behind him to repeal Thanos' invasion as well. Civil War weakened Earth's foremost protectors allowing for Thanos' eventual success.

The point of the Accords wasn't to split the Avengers. It was to put their power in check, it just so happened to indirectly splinter the team due to philosophical differences.

Again, we get one passing mentioned of it when Cap and squad return to the Avengers base. That's it. It had virtually no effect on the film. Ross quickly stood down when Steve confronted him. Before Tony and Steve could even speak, New York got invaded.

I agree on a surface level, but, like I said above, you only have so much time in a movie and this one was already jam packed. Plus, I think Thor's search for his people was set up on purpose for his fourth movie.

I haven't touched on the search for his people. There are most definitely areas of the film they could have trimmed to lengthen the Asgardian ship sequence.

From a "self contained" perspective it works fine. From the perspective having seen all the prior Thor films and then obviously Ragnarok, it feels cheap. We last saw him watching Thanos approaching then next suddenly others are slaughtered and one of the main Avengers on the doorstep of death. That's a major plot event in the MCU that's glossed over. I can't recall where in the MCU something like that would happen with such a major player.

I think that's called symmetry.

I think maybe you're referring to parallels, but again it gets diluted a bit after three different instances of it. Reminds of the Oprah meme "You get a .... she gets a .... everyone gets a ...!!!!"

The writers already discussed the Black Orders' power levels. They clearly made them "weaker" than the books because the heroes wouldn't stand a chance at their comics power levels. That said, they are all still powerful enough that it takes 2-3 Avengers to defeat them each. That's pretty darn powerful.

In a literal sense yes they took on multiple Avengers. The problem for me was watching them spar with Vision - who is head and shoulders above Cap/BW/Falcon and yet those three were able to stand up to them in 1-on-1 attacks. The Russos should have gone to greater lengths showing A: More teamwork and B: The Black Order getting weakened from scuffling with Vision/SW.

Good review though.

Appreciate it.

Again from an isolated perspective the film works, which is an amazing accomplishment given how many characters it had to tie together. I just felt because of its size, I was also forced to accept quite a bit of surface level exposition and I wasn't allowed to slow down to settle into the film.
 
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Had time to kill after work so seeing it a 4th and most likely final time. Not Dolby Cinema but I’m sure it’ll look great regardless. Wonder if the people here are repeat viewers too or it’s their first time.
 
Saw it for the 3rd time yesterday... and there's still one thing I can't figure out...

How does Thor know to go to Wakanda after forging Stormbreaker???
 
I will point this out as I think it's an,issue. Many are defending Quill's actions that it works because it's in character.

How about this?


It shows there has been no real character growth three films deep. What Quill did here is pretty much what he would have done in similar circumstances when we first meet him. So... How has his journey from then to now affected him? Compare that to say Tony who was quite different here than he has usually been or the presentation of Strange who only had on entry in the MCU but was written more subtle and confident in IW.

Discuss.

(Sits back eating my lunch)

I kind of agree.

Same can actually be said for Thor by not chopping of Thanos head or hand.
 

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