Avengers the Initiative

[Dread]

But we just saw in Mighty Avengers that the new Super-Skrulls are made through that weird-ass ritual. I mean, I guess it's possible that all Skrull children are having that done to them now, but it seems odd to me.

Or Skrull power levels are just wiggy in general. I mean, they couldn't "regenerate" via just shape-shifting for decades. But once they could, it became common.

 

[BrianWilly]

Well it is possible that Skrullowjacket was just being inaccurately pompous about the "Pfah all Skrull children can do this YU HOOMANS SUK" thing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

"HYOOOOOOOMAAAAAAHNSS!!!!"

 

[Kitsune]

He's far more than a robot, but hell...you respect continuity as much as that bald piece of crap, so why bother explaining it to you?

Hey don't call Vision bald... he's "follically challenged"

 

[Doc Destruction]

I was talking about Bendis lol.

 

[Dread]

Well it is possible that Skrullowjacket was just being inaccurately pompous about the "Pfah all Skrull children can do this YU HOOMANS SUK" thing.

True, much like Ord bragging to the X-Men about how on his planet, "children fill their pillows with diamonds" and whatnot. Soon as Breakworld was revealed, it was obvious that while Ord is superhuman, he isn't nearly as potent without his armor, as are most of the Breakworlders. Skrulls nearly INVENTED the arrogant alien routine in 616 Marvel.

(No, I didn't use that example because of the writer of that story or our recent argument. I just thought it was comparable. Plus, it was part of "CURE", which was great.)

 

[Bubonic]

Reposting my review of the latest issue, with spoilers:



I was never really a fan of Delroy/Triathlon/3-D Man, but this issue all but made me one. That's what makes A:TI a great book sometimes. Yeah, the regular cast is good, but you never know when some hidden D-Lister will rise to form and really get to shine. It's like MCP, only, y'know, actually good and mattering.

I just read the whole series for the first time in the past couple of days and I totally agree with you.

The Initiative is the perfect way for Marvel to pull out some D and Z listers out of the woodwork, write them well and create a fanbase for characters that hardly mattered to anyone before.

Not only that, but it is the perfect platform to introduce new heroes without risking the solo route with untested materials.
Because even if some characters bomb, there is always something else and other characters to keep you interested until the flush that one and introduce a new one.

I liked MCP to a degree, but you get too little of each story each month and it sometimes seems removed from the ongoings of the rest of the 616...

It has obscure characters being resold, but out of context with most of the big events... Then again I only read the first four and that was a long time ago.

Plus this can spawn off minis for a long time to come considering theres 50 states and some protectorates, and Omega Flight.

 

[Dread]

I just read the whole series for the first time in the past couple of days and I totally agree with you.

The Initiative is the perfect way for Marvel to pull out some D and Z listers out of the woodwork, write them well and create a fanbase for characters that hardly mattered to anyone before.

Indeed. Or at the very least, allow for some progression of their characters. Having Delroy become the new 3-D Man makes sense because he was always part of the legacy. Much as Ultra-Girl donning Ms. Marvel's original outfit also makes sense because they're both Kree empowered heroines (Ultra-Girl is essentially like a Kree Supergirl).

It gives a lot of D and Z Listers a chance to appear and remain out of Limbo, which usually is the first route to some random death. Just look at Hornet.

Not only that, but it is the perfect platform to introduce new heroes without risking the solo route with untested materials.
Because even if some characters bomb, there is always something else and other characters to keep you interested until the flush that one and introduce a new one.

Also true. While not every new Initiative rookie could support a series, you never know which could take off and appear in the future. Slott's Initiative characters have already shown up in NEW WARRIORS and some other titles.

I liked MCP to a degree, but you get too little of each story each month and it sometimes seems removed from the ongoings of the rest of the 616...

It has obscure characters being resold, but out of context with most of the big events... Then again I only read the first four and that was a long time ago.

Plus this can spawn off minis for a long time to come considering theres 50 states and some protectorates, and Omega Flight.

MCP was a format that hasn't sold since the 90's, back when it was biweekly and you got 2 issues a month. 1 issue a month is too slow. The more disturbing part is that it has no (or few) decent level talents and some of the stories seem to be spinning their jets even at 8 pages a month. Plus, as you said, MCP matters little to the grand scheme of Marvel. SECRET INVASION: WHO DO YOU TRUST? was a better issue of MCP than MCP was, if you think about it. Random one shot with short stories about B and C level characters. Only it had better talent and mattered in the scheme of the event. Perhaps that would have been the best way to make a MCP work. Introduce it not as a regular monthly series but a semi-annual series that simply adds stories to whatever the event of that year is. It might've sold better. But, oh well.

Omega Flight is Canadian, not part of the Initiative I thought. It was more of a joint International effort, with the U.S. sending over heroes like Ararchne, U.S. Agent, and, uh, Mike Pointer because Canada is a key U.S. ally with 30% of their oil supply, as well as becoming Ground Zero for fleeing super-criminals. It was lumped into the Initiative in tie-in's but the Initiative was about a team for all 50 states. But, no biggie. The only hassle with Omega Flight was some comics featured Beta Ray Bill as an "official" member when he really never "officially" joined. He randomly showed up for their initial fight against the demonically-strengthened Wrecking Crew and got trapped in another dimension immediately afterwards. Armadillo was part of the Texas Rangers longer.

Considering A:TI without tie-in's sells about 50-55k, I am unsure of if it can spawn any spin-off's, but you never know. Again, I like how it allows Slott & Gage to tell a range of stories with a range of characters and allow both older creations (such as Annex and Batwing, who both were in limbo a good decade) as well as newer ones (Crusader and Eric O'Grady) to get some time in the spotlight.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Did MCP even sell in the 90s? Maybe only when it was a wolverine book...

I'm sure the sales stunk outside the wolverine stuff, which was relevant stories with the Weapon X arcs.

 

[Bubonic]

Indeed. Or at the very least, allow for some progression of their characters. Having Delroy become the new 3-D Man makes sense because he was always part of the legacy. Much as Ultra-Girl donning Ms. Marvel's original outfit also makes sense because they're both Kree empowered heroines (Ultra-Girl is essentially like a Kree Supergirl).

It gives a lot of D and Z Listers a chance to appear and remain out of Limbo, which usually is the first route to some random death. Just look at Hornet.

It's great, especially for fans like me that knows of a lot of these old characters but never really got to experience them.

I just started reading the Toxin miniseries, and they're using Razor-Fist, which I bet was pretty lame back when he was introduced, but come off as totally bad assed in this. So far at least.

MCP was a format that hasn't sold since the 90's, back when it was biweekly and you got 2 issues a month. 1 issue a month is too slow. The more disturbing part is that it has no (or few) decent level talents and some of the stories seem to be spinning their jets even at 8 pages a month. Plus, as you said, MCP matters little to the grand scheme of Marvel. SECRET INVASION: WHO DO YOU TRUST? was a better issue of MCP than MCP was, if you think about it. Random one shot with short stories about B and C level characters. Only it had better talent and mattered in the scheme of the event. Perhaps that would have been the best way to make a MCP work. Introduce it not as a regular monthly series but a semi-annual series that simply adds stories to whatever the event of that year is. It might've sold better. But, oh well.

Pretty good idea there actually, because as much as I want to like MCP, it hasn't been worth picking up.

Omega Flight is Canadian, not part of the Initiative I thought. It was more of a joint International effort, with the U.S. sending over heroes like Ararchne, U.S. Agent, and, uh, Mike Pointer because Canada is a key U.S. ally with 30% of their oil supply, as well as becoming Ground Zero for fleeing super-criminals. It was lumped into the Initiative in tie-in's but the Initiative was about a team for all 50 states. But, no biggie. The only hassle with Omega Flight was some comics featured Beta Ray Bill as an "official" member when he really never "officially" joined. He randomly showed up for their initial fight against the demonically-strengthened Wrecking Crew and got trapped in another dimension immediately afterwards. Armadillo was part of the Texas Rangers longer.

I was sort of joking about that since many Americans joke about Canada being a state, which is aided by our proximity and similar culture.
Then again I highly dislike the current storyline because Guardian is an American, and there basically seems to be more Americans on the team then Canadians, pretty ****ing patronizing.

Considering A:TI without tie-in's sells about 50-55k, I am unsure of if it can spawn any spin-off's, but you never know. Again, I like how it allows Slott & Gage to tell a range of stories with a range of characters and allow both older creations (such as Annex and Batwing, who both were in limbo a good decade) as well as newer ones (Crusader and Eric O'Grady) to get some time in the spotlight.

Potentially every team could have its own mini, lets say they do a Rangers mini, maybe do a limited release outside of Texas and have it more available in state?

I was pretty psyched about seeing Annex, I remember really liking that Spidey annual he was introduced in, looks different now and hasn't really been focused on, but hell, he's there.

And personally I can't get enough of O'Grady, he's like a shrinkable Deadpool.

 

[Dread]

It's great, especially for fans like me that knows of a lot of these old characters but never really got to experience them.

Indeed. And it allows fans who don't know these characters to get some good first impressions.

Pretty good idea there actually, because as much as I want to like MCP, it hasn't been worth picking up.

It isn't. It isn't the worst comic Marvel's put out but I wouldn't recommend it.

I was sort of joking about that since many Americans joke about Canada being a state, which is aided by our proximity and similar culture.
Then again I highly dislike the current storyline because Guardian is an American, and there basically seems to be more Americans on the team then Canadians, pretty ****ing patronizing.

The Canadians on the team are Sasquatch and Talisman. Beta Ray Bill was an alien and, again, I'd call him more of a team-up than an actual member from the series. Yeah, that makes the rest Americans. Still liked the mini, though.

Potentially every team could have its own mini, lets say they do a Rangers mini, maybe do a limited release outside of Texas and have it more available in state?

Maybe. THE ORDER was about a team based in California, and THE LAST DEFENDERS about the attempt to make a team for New Jersey. HELLCAT is exploring Alaska. So at the very least the Initiative provided more incentive for superhero stories outside of NYC.

I was pretty psyched about seeing Annex, I remember really liking that Spidey annual he was introduced in, looks different now and hasn't really been focused on, but hell, he's there.

I never cared for Annex, but that doesn't mean I didn't want to see something done with him. Those handbook backlogs are full of potential, and A:TI strip-mines it.

And personally I can't get enough of O'Grady, he's like a shrinkable Deadpool.

I suppose. I'd like to think Eric is more of an actual character, as Deadpool has often become a schtick.

 

[Darthphere]

I think Tony should relocate The Order. Considering the X-Men's latest move, he could stand that they are the defacto California team and have the Order move to Nevada.

 

[Dread]

I think Tony should relocate The Order. Considering the X-Men's latest move, he could stand that they are the defacto California team and have the Order move to Nevada.

But have all the X-Men registered? I know some of them did (like Bishop and, later, Colossus) but most of them decided to stay neutral.

Besides, the X-Men usually are too busy with drama and being paranoid to be outright heroes like the Order. Besides, California's a large state. They could share.

 

[Darthphere]

But have all the X-Men registered? I know some of them did (like Bishop and, later, Colossus) but most of them decided to stay neutral.

Besides, the X-Men usually are too busy with drama and being paranoid to be outright heroes like the Order. Besides, California's a large state. They could share.

That's why they're defacto Dread. They're not registered but they're there.

 

[Dread]

That's why they're defacto Dread. They're not registered but they're there.

Fair enough. That doesn't mean The Order have to move.

I wonder if The Initiative scooped up any of the few surviving X-Statix people. They were Cali-heroes long before CW.

 

[Darthphere]

Fair enough. That doesn't mean The Order have to move..

Of course they don't have to, but why I mean think of it this way, The Order were going to protect all of California, and now you have the X-Men there. You're telling me that the X-Men won't help out people outside of San Francisco? The Order being there is superfluous.

 

[Dread]

Of course they don't have to, but why I mean think of it this way, The Order were going to protect all of California, and now you have the X-Men there. You're telling me that the X-Men won't help out people outside of San Francisco? The Order being there is superfluous.

Considering that California is a very large state, I don't mind two teams being there. I mean, New York has HOW many teams?

The Mighty Avengers and the Fantastic Four are the "official" ones. The New Avengers and the New Warriors (and soon to be Counter-Force) are the "unofficial" ones. And that isn't even going into the fact that there are many solo heroes about, registered and not. NY is half the size of CA, maybe less. It has a lower population of citizens to protect.

Incidentally, The Loners are also in California, so that's THREE teams. But I doubt we'll see much of Cebulski's crew.

 

[RockSP]

Considering that California is a very large state, I don't mind two teams being there. I mean, New York has HOW many teams?

Exactly. Up until Civil War damn near every team and solo hero at Marvel was in New York City. I always thought that was silly.

 

[Darthphere]

Yeah, now we have multiple teams in one state as well in California. We should spread the wealth dammit.

 

[Dread]

The Initiative is working on it. Teams in Hawaii, Nevada, Texas, as well as other states. Even Alaska. Sort of.

 

[THANOSRULES]

Speaking of Alaska ..some big threats could come there like Oil Spills or sea born monsters...I dont think Hellcat is the right choice for a state that big with her powers and all.

Didnt that collective guy start his romp up in Alaska?

 

[MyPokerShirt]

MCP was a format that hasn't sold since the 90's, back when it was biweekly and you got 2 issues a month. 1 issue a month is too slow.

Did 2000AD (UK weekly comic with lots of split up strips and original home of Judge Dread -- though I doubt I have to tell you that...) ever sell in the US? Heck was it ever in distribution? Because growing up on American comics I really struggle with the broken up story lines and prefer the 2000 AD Extreme Edition as it collects stories together but that's bimonthly. I don't think the modern attention span can be bothered with so little story, which is why if a comic suffers too much from decompression we absolutely rip it apart as a community.

 

[Doc Destruction]

2000AD was banned here in the US. I always wanted to read it, but never could until they finally got to distribute Judge Dredd.

 

[MyPokerShirt]

Considering that California is a very large state, I don't mind two teams being there. I mean, New York has HOW many teams?

The Mighty Avengers and the Fantastic Four are the "official" ones. The New Avengers and the New Warriors (and soon to be Counter-Force) are the "unofficial" ones. And that isn't even going into the fact that there are many solo heroes about, registered and not. NY is half the size of CA, maybe less. It has a lower population of citizens to protect.

Incidentally, The Loners are also in California, so that's THREE teams. But I doubt we'll see much of Cebulski's crew.

In my head it was always explained by New York being the epicentre of the mutant outbreak but I guess that doesn't count any more

I know theyre american comics but if we're going to get picky maybe America should share the wealth (not just across states but) across the world. Peter Parker Spider-Man, Friendly Neighborhood Crimefighter in Dubai t:

 

[MyPokerShirt]

2000AD was banned here in the US. I always wanted to read it, but never could until they finally got to distribute Judge Dredd.

BANNED?? American Christian Fundamentalism gone crazy!!

(I'm actually assuming it was some sort of distribution or copyright politics?)

Anyway the extreme editions are pretty cool. The last issue reprinted 3 short Grant Morrison stories. They were a bit crazy but that's hardly surprising considering it's in 2000AD.

If I had a working scanner I'd post one of them. Shame