Comics Back In Black Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Kevin]

You're really going out of your way to hate this.

 

[shinlyle]

See, I'm not HATING this...as I love the Black Costume, but I do hate the way he gets the suit. Am I the only one who remembers that he one hanging right in his freakin' closet for years?! Hell, I'd rather him have went to see Felicia and get one from her (you KNOW she keeps one around) than to have them ignore Spidey history by saying he just webbed it under a ledge somewhere. Come on.

I think, honestly, ASM is still the worst of the Spidey-titles, although it has gotten FAR better than it was 10 issues ago. PAD and ESPECIALLY Aguire-Sacasa are just rocking their respective titles right now. They're handling the pissed-off-Spidey thing quite well, without disregarding continuity...and that's what I love about them.

Honestly, aside from JMS's complete ignorance about the character and his refusal to look things up, I don't have that much of a problem with the Spidey books right now.

Then again, the Black Costume may just be clouding my judgement.

 

[Kevin]

Black is kool. All should love black. I'm black, so I'm kool...

 

[walternewell]

I like it. I really want to see where this goes.

 

[SpideyStu2]

Yeah, where is this story going? Is Peter going to connect the dots all the way back to Fisk? And if he does what's going to happen then? Fisk's already in jail is he not? Or is he out now?

 

[Mara Jane]

See, I'm not HATING this...as I love the Black Costume, but I do hate the way he gets the suit. Am I the only one who remembers that he one hanging right in his freakin' closet for years?! Hell, I'd rather him have went to see Felicia and get one from her (you KNOW she keeps one around) than to have them ignore Spidey history by saying he just webbed it under a ledge somewhere. Come on.

You mean the closet that got burned to a cinder in the Skin Deep Arc?

I'm not really surprised he hid one somewhere in the city, in case his apartment got firebombed or such (Skin Deep wasn't the first time he's lost everything like that), but the webbing does seem ridiculous.

 

[Themanofbat]

I know this has probably been discussed here already but I just read the JQ Q&A and TMOB asked him that stuff. Cool. JMS answered the costume webbed to the building Q arguing that an unmodified batch of web fluid could potentially last forever or something, yeah right.
Though not saying what exact costume it was and when it exactly was webbed up there, which is what I am also interested in.

Just making stuff up is a cop out.
If there’s a costume webbed to a building that Spidey is recovering, then I want it to have been webbed up there in a previous issue.

Also JMS’ answer was a cop out for the suffocating cop question, saying Spidey did not web over his nose and mouth. Point is PP would not need to- if the webbing was sealed around edges of the wall then eventually the cop runs out of air. Simple.

At least they admit that the "Reilly/Fitzgerald" part was an error (though Joe Q. doesn't admit it himself), and that it'll be fixed in subsequent reprintings and the trade.

 

[Themanofbat]

You mean the closet that got burned to a cinder in the Skin Deep Arc?

I'm not really surprised he hid one somewhere in the city, in case his apartment got firebombed or such (Skin Deep wasn't the first time he's lost everything like that), but the webbing does seem ridiculous.

The webbing idea IS ridiculous, because when Peter needs money in an early Lee/Ditko issue, he demonstrates it to some scientists. When they are amazed at how wonderful this adhesive is, they jump for joy (and Spidey thinks he can make loads of money), but when the webbing dissolves, they become uninterested and tell him to come back when he can make his adhesive webbing last longuer.

Spidey says he "could" make it last longuer, but it would take MONTHS of lab work... and I don't ever recall Peter being dedicated for months for change his webbing formula so that it could become permanent.

Though at least it's established in that issue that it's possible for the webbing formula to become permanent.

Check it out on pages 10 & 11 in Amazing Spider-Man #18.

Cheers...

 

[shinlyle]

You mean the closet that got burned to a cinder in the Skin Deep Arc?

I'm not really surprised he hid one somewhere in the city, in case his apartment got firebombed or such (Skin Deep wasn't the first time he's lost everything like that), but the webbing does seem ridiculous.

I thought Peter and Mj had their own place away from May, at the time, and then they were all moved to Stark Tower after Skin Deep. Either way, his stuff is either burned or in Stark Tower...either way, it's gone.

Yeah the webbing was stupid. I would have preferred him getting it from somewhere else, like maybe a ceiling tile in one of his old apartments or something...that would have made more sense, and we wouldn't have had to wonder when it was put there.

 

[Mara Jane]

I thought Peter and Mj had their own place away from May, at the time, and then they were all moved to Stark Tower after Skin Deep. Either way, his stuff is either burned or in Stark Tower...either way, it's gone.

Yeah the webbing was stupid. I would have preferred him getting it from somewhere else, like maybe a ceiling tile in one of his old apartments or something...that would have made more sense, and we wouldn't have had to wonder when it was put there.

Their apartment was burned, too, which is why they went to Stark Tower instead of having May temporarily move in with them.

Agreed about the hiding spot. It could have even been inside the Bugle, and he put it there long before he gave up the black costume for good.

 

[shinlyle]

Their apartment was burned, too, which is why they went to Stark Tower instead of having May temporarily move in with them.

Agreed about the hiding spot. It could have even been inside the Bugle, and he put it there long before he gave up the black costume for good.

Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Sorry, it's been so long since I've dared dread anything from Sins Past or Skin Deep.

The Bugle would've been awesome....right in the darkroom!!!

 

[farmernudie]

Well...regardless....i think we can all agree that the "ulitmate-super-never-ending-webbing" thing is a GIANT mistake that no one on that issue caught.

Yet SHOULD HAVE BEEN easy one for someone (an EDITOR anyone???) to catch.

Common knowledge.

It has always broken down.

I personally love the black constume too....yet spidey in general is a little out of character (more so during the unmasking) and continuity is THROWN OUT THE WINDOW still here...webbing or what-have-you...

 

[SpideyZERO]

http://www.marvel.com/news/comicstories.282
Looks like Marvel is kinda serious in making Peter to kill

 

[Dangerous]

The webbing idea IS ridiculous, because when Peter needs money in an early Lee/Ditko issue, he demonstrates it to some scientists. When they are amazed at how wonderful this adhesive is, they jump for joy (and Spidey thinks he can make loads of money), but when the webbing dissolves, they become uninterested and tell him to come back when he can make his adhesive webbing last longuer.

Spidey says he "could" make it last longuer, but it would take MONTHS of lab work... and I don't ever recall Peter being dedicated for months for change his webbing formula so that it could become permanent.

Though at least it's established in that issue that it's possible for the webbing formula to become permanent.

Check it out on pages 10 & 11 in Amazing Spider-Man #18.

Cheers...

Good point.

I remember the issue and incident now that you mention it, but I would not have recalled that off the top of my head. So basically JMS answer was crap because PP did not modify the web to dissolve after 1 hour, that's just what it did by default. JMS got it the wrong way round, plus if PP ever did knock up a batch that lasted for long periods of time (which he never did), this would certainly have been a significant enough event that it would have appeared in panel.

JMS just made something up again to get his story to work.
Yet more shoddy writing, can't wait to see the back of him.
Still at least you got to ask em a question or two, it’s too bad JQ and JMS don't post on this board because we would kick their asses.

 

[Kevin]

So what you guys are telling me... If JMS wrote an issue, before, about how Peter finally got his webbing to last forever... that you would have less of a problem with this......?

 

[Themanofbat]

So what you guys are telling me... If JMS wrote an issue, before, about how Peter finally got his webbing to last forever... that you would have less of a problem with this......?

I don't really have a problem with it other than in the back of my head, it's lazy writing and poor editing.

I would have rather he had hidden the suit in a box or something other than webbing because that's what makes the most sense.

Having said that, if Marvel wants to go with the idea that Peter developped his formula over the years so that it can be permanent, while a tad unbelievable, I can buy it so it's no big deal.

And I'm glad that somebody at Marvel can admit that May's maiden name was a mistake.

Just my two cents...

 

[Dangerous]

So what you guys are telling me... If JMS wrote an issue, before, about how Peter finally got his webbing to last forever... that you would have less of a problem with this......?

I would have less of a problem if JMS’ writing made more sense in relation to past continuity (like for e.g. we once saw, or it was at least noted in a Mackie era book that Spidey webbed up a black costume to a building) and that he did not just invent things to suit his arcs (like suggesting Spidey‘s webbing was originally born of a long-term life span when it has been ascertained here that this is not the case), or that he not script dubious situations (like Spidey webbing a cops face to a wall) and then try to shoot down valid claims that they could very likely incur tragic repercussions.

 

[Hyper Venom]

What's really bothering me, which nobody has mentioned, is that if Peter left his costume webbed up under a gargoyle for so long (which is asinine and melodramatic and pointless to begin with)...WHY DOESN'T HE WASH THE DAMN THING?!

We don't know how long it's been there! It's been exposed to the elements and anything else that has decided it wants to crawl around in there! I realize Peter is pissed, but that's no reason to disregard good hygiene!

 

[shinlyle]

What's really bothering me, which nobody has mentioned, is that if Peter left his costume webbed up under a gargoyle for so long (which is asinine and melodramatic and pointless to begin with)...WHY DOESN'T HE WASH THE DAMN THING?!

We don't know how long it's been there! It's been exposed to the elements and anything else that has decided it wants to crawl around in there! I realize Peter is pissed, but that's no reason to disregard good hygiene!

Not to mention that, seeing as how his web doesn't stay sticky all the time, it's possble that moths could have laid eggs all in it and eaten it up! That thing should be ridden with holes, or at least lost some of it's elasticity!

Add to that the fact that it's rained, sleeted, snowed, and been scorching hot over the years, that cloth wouldn't be worth anythin at this point!

 

[moraldeficiency]

I know this has probably been discussed here already but I just read the JQ Q&A and TMOB asked him that stuff. Cool. JMS answered the costume webbed to the building Q arguing that an unmodified batch of web fluid could potentially last forever or something, yeah right.
Though not saying what exact costume it was and when it exactly was webbed up there, which is what I am also interested in.

Just making stuff up is a cop out.
If there’s a costume webbed to a building that Spidey is recovering, then I want it to have been webbed up there in a previous issue.

Also JMS’ answer was a cop out for the suffocating cop question, saying Spidey did not web over his nose and mouth. Point is PP would not need to- if the webbing was sealed around edges of the wall then eventually the cop runs out of air. Simple.

Since this is a guy with spider powers I'm willing to let a little science departure go with the webbing thing. It seemed to me that it was the symbolism that they were trying to convey in that. The idea of the suit which symbolized his dark side being cocooned by his no fatal webbing only to be ripped open. If he just opened up a chest that imagery would be lost....

Making stuff up is pretty much how comics are done. Not everything is going to be in back issues if you go by that rule you're seriously limiting new stories and ideas. I agree not all are good, or even readable but I want them to have the ability to think up new and creative ideas or spider-man starts getting as formulaic (yeah I can't spell) and boring as superman.

The cop thing? Also symbolism. I'm the first stickler for good science and plausable situations but I'm reading this for a good story. I get plenty of science journals for my science fix. I want good stories in my fiction and that means you've got to go a little more complex than "well scientifically this wouldn't happen" and start conveying multiple messages and meanings in the story and art.

Oh I think the first time bugs killed someone was in Bugs vs. Furball where he killed that Charelamaine chick when he thought it was the "best there is at not bathing".

 

[farmernudie]

shinlyle: ...Add to that the fact that it's rained, sleeted, snowed, and been scorching hot over the years, that cloth wouldn't be worth anythin at this point!

That was explained too. That was the "special" suit fabric made with the special yarn that also lasts longer (like his webbing) and is not affected by weather or the elements or any creatures that may want to chew on it.

Making stuff up is pretty much how comics are done. Not everything is going to be in back issues if you go by that rule you're seriously limiting new stories and ideas.

This is true....however....there is a difference, i think, of just making whatever you want up and throwing it into a story....and making stuff up responsibily within a "framework of believability to the standard" of an established character.

There are lots of golden age-olden days examples of extremely whacked out ideas that they wrote that someone went wild with making stuff up for the heroes....ex...Superman once made mini-supermans come out of his palm to save the day....very imaginitive....but not "superman"...

The webbing thing however is just an ERROR that no one caught that now they give lame excuses for off the top of their head. I can't see how one can try to defend that specific point.

And no...i don't think fans would be happier if they had dedicated an issue at some point to Peter laboring away to make "permament webbing" for those all important occasions like webbing up an outfit for a rainy day.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Was anyone else deeply disappointed by "Sandblasted"? Sandman so rarely shows up in Spidey comics anymore. I was kind of hoping it would be a tense team up with flashbacks to Sandman's past. One that neither Flint or Peter liked but was in both of their interests. Instead we get Spidey and Sandman discussing that, since they are driving to find the alternate Uncle Ben's killer in a van, they must be like Scooby Doo. And we get

Spoiler

Chameleon 2211, a giant pink shape shifting lizard

. So much for a gritty team up. No light shed on Sandman either. Well, I guess I'll just have to wait for Sandman: Year One.

 

[Eddie Brock]

You know, I was reading ASM 252 the other day, and Spidey comes back from the Beyonder's planet to find his clothing in the tree....whoops, looks like the webbing gave out before he came back in time!

I say this because the fact that webbing dissolves is reinforced time and time again...later in the series, when he is fighting Puma, he has a sling made of webbing and it dissolves in the middle of the fight...

Yet SOMEHOW, even though it's practically public knowledge in the Spider-Man community that his webbing only lasts an hour, the black suit manages to stay stuck to the side of that building for YEARS!

Continuity errors like this are almost unforgivable...

 

[Dangerous]

Since this is a guy with spider powers I'm willing to let a little science departure go with the webbing thing. It seemed to me that it was the symbolism that they were trying to convey in that. The idea of the suit which symbolized his dark side being cocooned by his no fatal webbing only to be ripped open. If he just opened up a chest that imagery would be lost....

Making stuff up is pretty much how comics are done. Not everything is going to be in back issues if you go by that rule you're seriously limiting new stories and ideas. I agree not all are good, or even readable but I want them to have the ability to think up new and creative ideas or spider-man starts getting as formulaic (yeah I can't spell) and boring as superman.

The cop thing? Also symbolism. I'm the first stickler for good science and plausable situations but I'm reading this for a good story. I get plenty of science journals for my science fix. I want good stories in my fiction and that means you've got to go a little more complex than "well scientifically this wouldn't happen" and start conveying multiple messages and meanings in the story and art.

Symbolism in comics is all well and good, but not if something being detailed for the sake of symbolism compromises the integrity of the standard to which the title has come to be expected, and/ or insults it’s readers intelligence.

JMS- one of his main problems is that far too often he is solely concerned w/ the grand concept behind his story and what HE wants to do in the arc. To hell w/ whether it’s actually possible in terms of past continuity, whether it means he just has to invent things up that never happened or even if it means he writes PP doing stuff he would never do.

You see I’m not asking that everything be in back issues that is revealed in current issues.
But to just pluck something out of nowhere like that PP had already developed a batch of web fluid back in the day that lasted for long periods of time- months/years is bad writing.
It’s JMS just making something up to get his turd to float.

Why is it bad writing?
Because we all known Spidey’s original webbing only lasted an hour.
If he had ever developed a batch that could last as long as months …up to years then this would certainly be enough of a significant event that we would have seen him do so in the comics.
The mere fact that in a Q&A recently when a board member asked him about the webbings life span in #539 he replied by saying Spider-man’s original duration of the webbing was long-term, proves he does not even know the source material.

It may be a comic about a guy w/ proportionate spider powers, but the comics have always been written to a certain standard w/ everything inside the books being justified.
So your symbolism over reason argument does not have any legs.

 

[farmernudie]

Great points Dangerous.

The webbing thing has been central to like every storyline for how long?? lol

I would like to add, it ticks me off kinda that Joey Q. just poo-poo's these erros and winks...when he is addressed with them. I sometimes thinks he doesn't really care for the "Fans"...unless you accept whatever they shovel.

He in no way helps the situation really...imo