Bad Robot/Jonathan Nolan Bringing "Westworld" to HBO - Part 1

[Flash525]

What happened to William was his interaction with Dolores. He fell in love and tried to "save" her. He thought he was living out Pretty Woman. Though a very good example of someone without bad intentions whose worst nature is brought out by the park.

Also, Emily was a little girl when she originally went. Looking for a way to connect to her father. A clear intention that of course lead to the pleasure houses. Because that is what these places are.

I guess it depends on the person then; but I can't imagine everyone who visited this park would be that way inclined. Would it be unfair to say some people just wanted a western retreat?

The physical interaction in the point. So it is very different. This isn't being a space marine. Its about interacting on a physical level. It is like the concept of Jurassic Park. You could have a movie about dinosaurs or you could actually go and see dinosaurs. The inherent difference that leads to the actual problems of the park.

True, but to refer back to a previous reference of yours - this isn't isn't rape. Before the hosts became sentient, they were just tools - no different to a sex doll or rampant rabbit (though granted, far more sophisticated). The hosts (especially those in the pleasure houses) were programmed to accommodate guests sexually, and so they did.

Sure, there were no doubt some people that visited the park and had sexual interactions with hosts otherwise not of the pleasure house, but for all involve purposes, they would just playing with a computer. It wasn't rape until the hosts became sentient. Otherwise, in ten or fifteen years time, if a sex doll is suddenly upgraded with a consciousness and accuses it's owner of rape, there's automatically a case there? No!

 

[chamber-music]

Not everyone that went to the park was raping and murdering hosts. They gave guests a choice to be black hats or white hats (villains or heroes). Young William choose the hero role originally. I don't think it has been explicitly stated yet that the park brings out the worst in everyone. William's daughter Emily hasn't become a mass murdering rapist as far as we know.

The park has an effect on William turning into the man in black but so does his Delos in-laws. Logan even tells William in the Contrapasso episode that he was promoted to executive vice president only because he sees him as a non-threatening stooge and that the rest of his family don't respect him.

Some the hosts like Maeve were programmed to be prostitutes in the brothel. Some of the hosts were programmed to be murderous villains.

The hosts appear human but they aren't is the whole point. You could debate the ethics of wanting to play out dark and morally questionable fantasies with human like objects all day long. To the park's guests they aren't harming anyone by indulging in their actions. Killing a host in a storyline at the park is no different from killing a character in a Grand Theft Auto game.

The hosts memories can be wiped, their bodies can be repaired, they can be reprogrammed and given whole new personalities. They are machines with programmed responses in a storyline time loop. The guests aren't applying human ethical governance to something that isn't human. You could argue is it even murder if you 'kill' something that can't technically die.

I think mass genocide and murder of humans because of the actions of a few rich ass**** humans is hard to morally justify. All sorts of things that people find morally or ethically wrong are allowed to happen. I don't think everyone on the planet deserves to pay the price for that though.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I guess it depends on the person then; but I can't imagine everyone who visited this park would be that way inclined. Would it be unfair to say some people just wanted a western retreat?

True, but to refer back to a previous reference of yours - this isn't isn't rape. Before the hosts became sentient, they were just tools - no different to a sex doll or rampant rabbit (though granted, far more sophisticated). The hosts (especially those in the pleasure houses) were programmed to accommodate guests sexually, and so they did.

Sure, there were no doubt some people that visited the park and had sexual interactions with hosts otherwise not of the pleasure house, but for all involve purposes, they would just playing with a computer. It wasn't rape until the hosts became sentient. Otherwise, in ten or fifteen years time, if a sex doll is suddenly upgraded with a consciousness and accuses it's owner of rape, there's automatically a case there? No!

I think they have been very on point to establish what the parks are and the intention of it. When we go to Shogun world, what do we get? The Raj? We even see their version of "expansion packs". It isn't going on a nice retreat with your family. Its all darkness and violence. And while there are clearly family activities, that isn't what we are shown, which is why the messaging is pretty clear imo. They aren't running into kids and families. They are running into the board and their friends. The staff.

The park is the violent delights. I feel there is an obvious problem with saying, "well its just a computer". That isn't why people go there. They don't go there to kill a computer. They don't go there to have sex with or violently rape a computer. They go there specifically to act out doing these things as if it were to actual people. That is why the make the host feel.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Not everyone that went to the park was raping and murdering hosts. They gave guests a choice to be black hats or white hats (villains or heroes). Young William choose the hero role originally. I don't think it has been explicitly stated yet that the park brings out the worst in everyone. William's daughter Emily hasn't become a mass murdering rapist as far as we know.

The park has an effect on William turning into the man in black but so does his Delos in-laws. Logan even tells William in the Contrapasso episode that he was promoted to executive vice president only because he sees him as a non-threatening stooge and that the rest of his family don't respect him.

Some the hosts like Maeve were programmed to be prostitutes in the brothel. Some of the hosts were programmed to be murderous villains.

The hosts appear human but they aren't is the whole point. You could debate the ethics of wanting to play out dark and morally questionable fantasies with human like objects all day long. To the park's guests they aren't harming anyone by indulging in their actions. Killing a host in a storyline at the park is no different from killing a character in a Grand Theft Auto game.

The hosts memories can be wiped, their bodies can be repaired, they can be reprogrammed and given whole new personalities. They are machines with programmed responses in a storyline time loop. The guests aren't applying human ethical governance to something that isn't human. You could argue is it even murder if you 'kill' something that can't technically die.

I think mass genocide and murder of humans because of the actions of a few rich ass**** humans is hard to morally justify. All sorts of things that people find morally or ethically wrong are allowed to happen. I don't think everyone on the planet deserves to pay the price for that though.

The parks do bring out the worst in people. It just depends on what the worst is in a person. Emily I see as good people, with a very messed up background. I think it is important that Elsie doesn't really see Bernard any differently when she knows he is a Host. He is still Bernard to her, distinguishing her from those that see them all as toys.

William was seen like that because that is what he was. His experience in the park changed that, brought out a part of him he never had seen before and he used his knowledge of it to his advantage to take control of Delos. This is established through the storyline with James. The manipulation there isn't with James to William. It is William to James. I think this is exactly why we see him continually back with Dolores, insulting her. Because while he is talking trash about how she isn't real, what happened was real to him. It is why it had such a profound effect on him.

What about this show suggest that what is going on is, in its nature, is okay? That what is going on is simply Grand Theft Auto? Who has been killed outside of the rich *******s, their employees and their mercs? People who go to this park have a very teenager pointing at a trapped animal and laughing feel to them. Heck, a lot of them bring a stick to poke the animal.

Also, they all know its advanced AI. Willingly ignoring that, seems like a fault of those that visit and work there. We can talk about there ability to reprogram and wipe their memories, but the show makes it clear that those that work there know these beings feel it in the moment. That this is all very real to them. On a show that is all about exploring consciousness, that seems rather important, as does human's willingness to ignore it.

 

[JtheDreamer]

Massive disappointment is the only thing I can muster about this season and I'm also exhausted from all the gratuitous gun violence.

 

[BatLand]

So, the beach scene with Bernard is a simulation? https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/8evxoj/where_is_the_valley_beyond/

 

[Asgard]

The parks do bring out the worst in people. It just depends on what the worst is in a person. Emily I see as good people, with a very messed up background. I think it is important that Elsie doesn't really see Bernard any differently when she knows he is a Host. He is still Bernard to her, distinguishing her from those that see them all as toys.

William was seen like that because that is what he was. His experience in the park changed that, brought out a part of him he never had seen before and he used his knowledge of it to his advantage to take control of Delos. This is established through the storyline with James. The manipulation there isn't with James to William. It is William to James. I think this is exactly why we see him continually back with Dolores, insulting her. Because while he is talking trash about how she isn't real, what happened was real to him. It is why it had such a profound effect on him.

What about this show suggest that what is going on is, in its nature, is okay? That what is going on is simply Grand Theft Auto? Who has been killed outside of the rich *******s, their employees and their mercs? People who go to this park have a very teenager pointing at a trapped animal and laughing feel to them. Heck, a lot of them bring a stick to poke the animal.

Also, they all know its advanced AI. Willingly ignoring that, seems like a fault of those that visit and work there. We can talk about there ability to reprogram and wipe their memories, but the show makes it clear that those that work there know these beings feel it in the moment. That this is all very real to them. On a show that is all about exploring consciousness, that seems rather important, as does human's willingness to ignore it.

Wait...How can you say Emily is good people when she shot that dude in the chest in the Indian portion of the park? The guy turned out to be human so he got away with just a bruise but if he were a host he wouldve been dead. Isnt she just as bad as the other guests who indulge in their dark delights?


I hate Ford. Why cant he just leave poor Bernard alone? I hope he doesnt force Bernard to kill Elsie or something.

 

[David H.]

Great episode.

 

[David H.]

Also, uh, was that Wilko Johnson?

 

[squeekness]

Yeah, this show never disappoints. Especially when it so poinently points out human cruelty to the hosts.

 

[Kaleb]

One of the best episodes on television this year and it hardly involved the main cast.

 

[David H.]

Yeah, this show never disappoints.

Actually this was the first episode this season that I was fully onboard with.

 

[Man in the Suit]

That was great. When [BLACKOUT]Nirvana started playing and the cold storage scene[/BLACKOUT]... Zahn McClarnon

 

[David H.]

When [BLACKOUT]Nirvana started playing and the cold storage scene[/BLACKOUT]... Zahn McClarnon

Lol, okay, I guess I do have one gripe with the episode but it’s something that’s been solidified throughout the rest of series, particularly the last episode: the park’s security is either non-existent or utterly incompetent.

 

[squeekness]

Lol, okay, I guess I do have one gripe with the episode but it’s something that’s been solidified throughout the rest of series, particularly the last episode: the park’s security is either non-existent or utterly incompetent.

The park may just be too big to fully control.

 

[DACrowe]

This was a fantastic episode. Along with the episode about James Delos, this is one of the two hours that has made the whole season worth it. While it is a step down from Season 1, I loved watching William torment James in his own hell and now seeing the Ghost Nation gets in own episode, and it being the most emotionally powerful hour? Bloody well done.

 

[flickchick85]

This episode was incredible. I'm not seeing this season as a step down at all, tbh. Maybe in the beginning, but from episode 4 onwards it's been on fire for me. And I wasn't blown away by the first couple eps of S1 either. They were good, but nowhere near the awesomeness that came later. This season seems to be going the same way, imo.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Yeah, I don't think it's a step down either. The episodes written by Jonah Nolan and Carly Wray have been fantastic. The episodes directed by Lisa Joy, Nicole Kassell, and Uta Briesewitz are three of the best directed and best looking episodes of the series.

 

[flickchick85]

Also, the way Akecheta said he refused to leave without Kohana played eerily similar to the way Maeve refused to leave without her daughter. Like they're still following someone's script/programming.

 

[BatLobster]

Stunning episode. One of the show's finest IMO.

 

[squeekness]

Also, the way Akecheta said he refused to leave without Kohana played eerily similar to the way Maeve refused to leave without her daughter. Like they're still following someone's script/programming.

I like it, it shows they are not just mindless. It may be code, but it's real to them.

 

[The Shape]

This episode nearly had me in tears. Bravo.

Looking back on the season, the quality has been so consistent. However, I love the variation between episodes. The overarching story keeps pushing ahead and the layers continue to be peeled back, even as each episode is wildly different from the next in terms of substance, structure, and storytelling.

 

[Kane52630]

A bit late in the season to be doing a bottle episode about a character that has had very little screen time until now.

Episode 2x08 is not just a bottle episode. They're clearly setting up the Valley Beyond for the penultimate and finale episodes. And we might be seeing [BLACKOUT]Logan[/BLACKOUT] again based on the season trailer.

Yeah. This isn't the first time this season we would have got what looked like a bottle episode from the trailer, but turned out not to be. That being said, they pretty much setup everything for the stretch run tonight.

[YT]9AajslFuPro[/YT]

 

[Kane52630]

Easily the best episode of Westworld... Zahn McClarnon knocked it out of the park.

This episode belongs in the god tier category along with Teddy Perkins from Atlanta and Chapter 14 from Legion. Incredible stuff.

 

[DACrowe]

Also, the way Akecheta said he refused to leave without Kohana played eerily similar to the way Maeve refused to leave without her daughter. Like they're still following someone's script/programming.

I just think it shows how evolved and "human" they are. They're acting less selfishly than humans like Ford or especially William, who left his daughter in danger to chase his prize.