The Flash Barry & Caitlin - The SnowBarry Thread

[Avenging Angel]

thing is will they throw those of us who ship them a bone by saying savatar and killer frost are involved now as more than partners

I think Savitar and Killer Frost make a twisted and great team. It's basically evil versions of Barry and Caitlin.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I think Savitar and Killer Frost make a twisted and great team. It's basically evil versions of Barry and Caitlin.

yep.grant and danielle have such great chemistry.

once again though last week showed how bad westallen is.wally called barry his brother.and they did total rewrite because iris never saw barry as more than friend throughout season 1 now we are suspose to think she always loved him?
oh please.meanwhile there we hints even when ronnie was alive on some level caitlin started devolping feelings for barry.caitlin always suppored barry.and it makes total sense for killer frost to support savatar.

just remember when people say wa is comic canon well in comcis iris wasn't adopted sibling of barry.that just makes their relationship creepy.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Killer Frost and Barry is in Season 4 become closer. Danielle and Grant have awesome chemistry. Savitar and KF are great together, I wish we had more scenes between them.

 

[Avenging Angel]

From the finale:

 

[marvelrobbins]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Killer Frost and Barry is in Season 4 become closer. Danielle and Grant have awesome chemistry. Savitar and KF are great together, I wish we had more scenes between them.

i am with you.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I think something off will happen in the finale, she will rethink which side she's on.

This is still a great scene.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrbJAFZCdRw[/YT]

 

[marvelrobbins]

i still haven't watch finale but it's clear now we can all forget about snowbarry.

throughout season 3 this became iris and wally west show.iris bosses people
around at starlabs.she is so great.much of season is about saving her.or to build up wally and show how great he is.

westallen is already creepy iwth barry basicly adopted by west family.joe and wally call barry son and brother.meanwhile they are doing total rewrite to
force wa.iris never loved barry in s1 she was prepared to marry eddie.

caitlin role is being reduced to push the iris and wally west.

i don't even know if i will still watch season 4

anyone who critzes olicity on arrow i don't know how they can support westallen.they are far far worse.

 

[metaphysician]

But they are canon, so they must be okay. *rollseyes*

That said, I do actually appreciate that they gave Caitlin the good ending, of sorts. She's not dead, not evil, and not depowered. And she got this way because of acts of trust and friendship. I hate the general course of her season subplot, but at least it didn't destroy her. If she's downgraded to recurring character, eh, fine.

( Just as long as they don't stick her on Legends. Eww, no, no. )

 

[mqg96]

At least WestAllen has always been a ship in the comics. Olicity never existed in the first place. A lot of y'all on here over exaggerate Iris' character when she's barely been annoying. Yes, I'm aware of her weaknesses and plot issues, however, she's no where near annoying as Felicity and it's not even close. Just because Iris hasn't been developed with the Star Labs team, doesn't mean she hasn't gotten development on the show. I just wish they would do something more with her. She has more personality than all her haters give her credit for.

Snowbarry was never a ship from the start of the series. Barry and Caitlin are a sibling relationship at best, but their chemistry hardly exists, it's forced by fandom, ruined and disgusting. People say Iris is useless on team Flash, but having emotionally positive speeches on the team including Barry, I say is very useful. I haven't been a big fan of Iris throughout season 3, but her emotional speeches on the team on 3x02, Barry on 3x07, and her character development on 3x21 were her biggest highlights for me which payed off.

I've rewatched seasons 1 & 2 and people fail to mention how negative Caitlin has always been towards Barry. People act like Caitlin has always been a perfect character, but that's a lie. The funny thing is, even before she became Killer Frost, there's always been a slight cold, icy, and negative attitude about her despite her nice innocent personality. It astounds me how many times Caitlin has told Barry, "You can't do that", "You could die", "Your body can't handle that", "I don't know if you can run that fast", "You take too many risks" and every time, Barry is FINE. Her doubt was for nothing and proved nothing but her lack of faith in him, even if it stems from concern. Barry's real enemy is doubt, something even Wells/Thawne said back in season 1.

This is why I wish Caitlin would shut her mouth whenever she wants to say something about how Barry can't do something when most of the time he can. The only time is when his time remnant sacrificed himself to save the multiverse from Zoom. Another thing I hated about Caitlin this season was keeping the secret from everybody about the piece of the philosopher stone, which was the reason Wally was getting those visions.

The thing I like about Iris is she never say things to Barry about how he can't do something. 9 times out of 10, Iris is always encouraging him. Iris is Barry's lightning rod and that's what I call real chemistry. Iris keeps the light on the team as well. I wish they would do more with Iris' character as a reporter especially heading into season 4, and with Barry being in the speed force throughout the off season maybe we can get more background story of Iris like we had the first 2 seasons and a half.

A lot of what I said is what Snowbarry shippers fail to mention. Y'all are hypocritical, never compare WestAllen (which is a comic book thing) to Olicity. If anything, Snowbarry would be just as much of a disaster as Olicity since the ships don't exist. Caitlin Snow was brought on the show to go through her Killer Frost route like the comics, Caitlin was never brought on the show to become something that she's clearly not. The show could go on without Caitlin, because she's not a main Flash character. Iris West on the other hand has been a main Flash character for decades, so the show would never write her off.

We all have characters that we like or dislike and even if ours are different ones, I respect everybody's opinion. However, if anyone hates Iris just because they find her "useless", then you're just anti-biased about her. If people hated each other based on use, we'd hate just about everyone we come across for not being some kind of scientist saving the world with technology and medicine.

 

[Avenging Angel]

But they are canon, so they must be okay. *rollseyes*

That said, I do actually appreciate that they gave Caitlin the good ending, of sorts. She's not dead, not evil, and not depowered. And she got this way because of acts of trust and friendship. I hate the general course of her season subplot, but at least it didn't destroy her. If she's downgraded to recurring character, eh, fine.

( Just as long as they don't stick her on Legends. Eww, no, no. )

I'm going into Season 4 with probably a reboot in mind. Maybe they will give us more scenes between Barry and Caitlin/Frost. Barry should be cleansed of the incest he's had and the selfishness he's advocated. I have no respect for him as hero. He does nothing but act like a brat and makes every decision on impulse for his personal gain.

I'm not going to put up with that. Caitlin's the heart of the team, Tracy and Iris are going to replace her. Even with her powers, she could straddle the line of good and bad just like Snart has done. Danielle is the strongest actress on the show. They aren't going to sideline her importance anymore. If they want their show further ruined then be my guest.

 

[Avenging Angel]

i still haven't watch finale but it's clear now we can all forget about snowbarry.

throughout season 3 this became iris and wally west show.iris bosses people
around at starlabs.she is so great.much of season is about saving her.or to build up wally and show how great he is.

westallen is already creepy iwth barry basicly adopted by west family.joe and wally call barry son and brother.meanwhile they are doing total rewrite to
force wa.iris never loved barry in s1 she was prepared to marry eddie.

caitlin role is being reduced to push the iris and wally west.

i don't even know if i will still watch season 4

anyone who critzes olicity on arrow i don't know how they can support westallen.they are far far worse.

Yeah, I'm firmly in agreement with this relationship being the main reason why this season is very stale. I've never seen a "hero" change this much for the worst in one season. Everything done in Season 3 has now been negated and wiped clean. It was like the writers took one big eraser and drove it down the episodes. Is that their way of realizing their mistakes?

Barry didn't grow at all and that is what is the issue here. When he had friends, people to ground him, he was much better and realized his potential. "Cause and Effect" sort of highlighted that. Even Caitlin as Killer Frost was the one to point out the importance of Flash being a superhero.

I wouldn't forget about it. The writers are getting distracted with their obsession with Iris and their bogus relationship that is built on nothing much.

I've said westallen was creepy and it still is, especially when there is always one scene where Joe or Wally points out the fact that he is "Wally's brother" and "Joe's son." How many times do they need to let us know? Then we're supposed to not find westallen so creepy and incestuous. Please.

At least Caitlin, for the all the stuff the writers have left out of her Killer Frost story, had some real growth in Season 1, all of the characters were going somewhere. There are moments when she clearly saves the situation. It's just a shame the writers don't care about developing anyone anymore.

Olicity was good when it was something in the background. Westallen could have been the Thea and Oliver of the show, they drew from similar backgrounds. I'm still scratching my head on why the relationship was pursued at all. The actors have no chemistry and Barry was pinning for her since the pilot while Iris was crazy in love with Eddie, then she just woke up and realized she was "in love" with a guy she grew up with since she was 11.

Yeah I hardly think any of that sounds romantic. Season 3 was a big indication that they don't work together. Barry and Caitlin had and still do have so much potential.

 

[Herolee10]

I've said this once and I'll say it again, I think Danielle would have been a GREAT choice for the role of "iris" IF the producers had originally decided to faithfully adapt her from the comics...especially when I consider on how her chemistry with Grant comes off better than his chemistry with Candice (as a romantic partner).

Imagine if Danielle was Iris (with Joe not being her dad of course but just Barry's foster father) and Candice playing Killer Frost instead.lol

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I've said this once and I'll say it again, I think Danielle would have been a GREAT choice for the role of "iris" IF the producers had originally decided to faithfully adapt her from the comics...especially when I consider on how her chemistry with Grant comes off better than his chemistry with Candice (as a romantic partner).

Imagine if Danielle was Iris (with Joe not being her dad of course but just Barry's foster father) and Candice playing Killer Frost instead.lol

Uh... Wasn't the casting of Patton actually because they were adapting the Flash comics at the time of the show's production?

 

[marvelrobbins]

Yeah, I'm firmly in agreement with this relationship being the main reason why this season is very stale. I've never seen a "hero" change this much for the worst in one season. Everything done in Season 3 has now been negated and wiped clean. It was like the writers took one big eraser and drove it down the episodes. Is that their way of realizing their mistakes?

Barry didn't grow at all and that is what is the issue here. When he had friends, people to ground him, he was much better and realized his potential. "Cause and Effect" sort of highlighted that. Even Caitlin as Killer Frost was the one to point out the importance of Flash being a superhero.

I wouldn't forget about it. The writers are getting distracted with their obsession with Iris and their bogus relationship that is built on nothing much.

I've said westallen was creepy and it still is, especially when there is always one scene where Joe or Wally points out the fact that he is "Wally's brother" and "Joe's son." How many times do they need to let us know? Then we're supposed to not find westallen so creepy and incestuous. Please.

At least Caitlin, for the all the stuff the writers have left out of her Killer Frost story, had some real growth in Season 1, all of the characters were going somewhere. There are moments when she clearly saves the situation. It's just a shame the writers don't care about developing anyone anymore.

Olicity was good when it was something in the background. Westallen could have been the Thea and Oliver of the show, they drew from similar backgrounds. I'm still scratching my head on why the relationship was pursued at all. The actors have no chemistry and Barry was pinning for her since the pilot while Iris was crazy in love with Eddie, then she just woke up and realized she was "in love" with a guy she grew up with since she was 11.

Yeah I hardly think any of that sounds romantic. Season 3 was a big indication that they don't work together. Barry and Caitlin had and still do have so much potential.

i am going to watch epiosde today finally i have ehard enough on it to reduce my angry.problem with iris isn't that hse was made black for tv or that i think danielle is better actress.it's the writing.they are rewriting or ignoring season 1 and even season 2 with some of their nonesense.while westallen aren't blood relatives it just remains creepy.and it's not because snowbarry fans ship barry & caitlin it's how they write show.

now barry could care less about every other character on show.iris being at starlabs so much and lecturing barry or bossing people around isn't helping
matters any.s3 turned into iris and wally west show and barry became love intrest to show main character iris.

caitlin meanwhile has much better poential.yes at times she could be cold in previous seasons before killer frost but danielle and grant have chemistry.
during first 2 seasons she supported barry.many fell in love during season 1 to barry,caitlin,and cisco as heart of show.kevin smith's nonesense about iris being heart of show had me scratch my head.

for all it's problems does anyone really think oliver would sacrifice thea and others for felicity.i think not.the fact that some call arrow season 5 better than flash season 3 says it all.

There is so much barry & caitlin could bring to show.and enough of rewriting show history and craping on season 1.

 

[Herolee10]

Uh... Wasn't the casting of Patton actually because they were adapting the Flash comics at the time of the show's production?

I was referring to how Danielle physically resembles comic book Iris (red/ginger hair, Caucasian) more than Candice does.

 

[theflashionist]

I was referring to how Danielle physically resembles comic book Iris (red/ginger hair, Caucasian) more than Candice does.

agreed

 

[TheRedWraith]

The comics at the time only had Wally as Black, but Iris herself was still white.

 

[Avenging Angel]

Some of my favorites from the episode. All the Savitar/KF scenes. SaviBarry's face on the side was too cool, they looked really hot next to each other.

Then this bittersweet scene, I loved how sad they all looked to see her go.

 

[Avenging Angel]

I've said this once and I'll say it again, I think Danielle would have been a GREAT choice for the role of "iris" IF the producers had originally decided to faithfully adapt her from the comics...especially when I consider on how her chemistry with Grant comes off better than his chemistry with Candice (as a romantic partner).

Imagine if Danielle was Iris (with Joe not being her dad of course but just Barry's foster father) and Candice playing Killer Frost instead.lol

Yeah Caitlin looks, acts and sounds like Iris. They didn't need to bend her race, this is not the same character from the comics, she is a CINO plain and simple. Even still, I can't imagine Danielle not playing Caitlin.

I can only see Danielle as Killer Frost now, no one else. It'd be hard if they replaced her. The fact that Iris was all of a sudden assisting in surgery with two scientists standing there and patching Barry up in a random scene proves Caitlin's importance to the show. Not to mention when they just hand over Caitlin's original lines to Iris out of nowhere, it insults the development of Caitlin's origins. Also proves they just don't care about giving Iris anything worth her salt.

i am going to watch epiosde today finally i have ehard enough on it to reduce my angry.problem with iris isn't that hse was made black for tv or that i think danielle is better actress.it's the writing.they are rewriting or ignoring season 1 and even season 2 with some of their nonesense.while westallen aren't blood relatives it just remains creepy.and it's not because snowbarry fans ship barry & caitlin it's how they write show.

now barry could care less about every other character on show.iris being at starlabs so much and lecturing barry or bossing people around isn't helping
matters any.s3 turned into iris and wally west show and barry became love intrest to show main character iris.

caitlin meanwhile has much better poential.yes at times she could be cold in previous seasons before killer frost but danielle and grant have chemistry.
during first 2 seasons she supported barry.many fell in love during season 1 to barry,caitlin,and cisco as heart of show.kevin smith's nonesense about iris being heart of show had me scratch my head.

for all it's problems does anyone really think oliver would sacrifice thea and others for felicity.i think not.the fact that some call arrow season 5 better than flash season 3 says it all.

There is so much barry & caitlin could bring to show.and enough of rewriting show history and craping on season 1.

I do think that but that is neither here nor there and it's subjective. Not to mention they could have dubbed her singing voice in that one scene where here and Barry were laughing on the couch immediately after attending a funeral for a man who sacrificed himself to save her useless existence.

Barry suffered a great deal for his obsession with Iris, mostly everyone around him suffered and he just didn't care, I wasn't even sure if he was a hero anymore. I had to question who he was many times.

Truth, it became about the Wests and the show took a deep nose dive in quality. They aren't interesting, do reckless things and bring stupid dramatic antics to the forefront. Joe is solely responsible for Caitlin getting shrapnel lodged into her abdomen which ultimately killed her. Where's the remorse for that one? Wally does reckless things all the time, I don't remember one instance where he saved the day because he thought it through. Iris, well, how much time do you have? The character is everywhere, take your pick. She's in every scene, doesn't matter if she needs to be but she is.

She still does. Caitlin's potential has yet to be explored fully. I heard Kevin say that also about Caitlin in Season 2. I wouldn't take him seriously, but 3x07 was one of the best episodes of the season.

I think Arrow has far surpassed Flash in its 5th season in a lot of ways. I find myself watching it again.

Maybe the best is yet to come with them separately and maybe together, and the previous moments were only scratching the surface. Season 4 will tell if the writers care about their show or go back to what doesn't work.

 

[30Airrazor]

Uh... Wasn't the casting of Patton actually because they were adapting the Flash comics at the time of the show's production?

The casting of Patton was Berlanti's idea in the first place. It was also his idea that he, along with others, casting K.Cassidy as Laurel to boot.

 

[Syncos]

i still haven't watch finale but it's clear now we can all forget about snowbarry.

throughout season 3 this became iris and wally west show.iris bosses people
around at starlabs.she is so great.much of season is about saving her.or to build up wally and show how great he is.

No, That's not what transpired this season. In fact, Wally got his butt handed to him whenever he tried to do just about anything this season. He's almost never been shone in a good light. He's arrogant, and rash.

As for Iris, her "death" might have been the focus of the season, but she didn't really have much to do in the season. Mostly Barry running around freaking out. The only time Iris "bosses" people around at Star Labs is to tell them to have some hope. Which is much needed.

westallen is already creepy iwth barry basicly adopted by west family.joe and wally call barry son and brother.

I don't necessarily agree with the whole story of Barry being raised by Joe, but keep in mind that Iris and Barry are not related. Joe was Barry's guardian, but he was never adopted. He's still Barry ALLEN.

meanwhile they are doing total rewrite to
force wa.iris never loved barry in s1 she was prepared to marry eddie.

A lot can happen in a year. And it's not like people don't wake up and realize they've had feelings for people they've been denying the entire time. That's what 80% of Romantic Comedy movies base their plots on.

caitlin role is being reduced to push the iris and wally west.

Caitlin's role was maybe reduced. But it wasn't to make room for Iris. She certainly didn't get a bunch more screen time this season. Maybe we could argue that there's too many characters now, with Gypsy and Jesse, and Jay and Wally, and HR, and Harry all trying to take screen time. But don't make it seem like Iris and Wally are taking all the time.

i don't even know if i will still watch season 4

anyone who critzes olicity on arrow i don't know how they can support westallen.they are far far worse.

100% Disagree.

Olicity turned the series into a show about Felicity, sometimes featuring Oliver. Once they were in a relationship the show became all about her, and her terrible family, and why Oliver is hiding things that are none of her business, boo hoo.

At Least Iris, when not being used as a plot point, is being used to provide hope to Barry, and keep him on goal.

I've never felt like there was a moment where "The Flash" wasn't about "The Flash". The same cannot be said for Arrow.

 

[mqg96]

Syncos is on point 100%. The show is called "The Flash" so focusing on characters like Barry Allen, Wally West, or Iris West is essential to the series, they always have to be around. Caitlin is a series regular but she's not a Flash character, Killer Frost has never been. Even Jay Garrick is more important to the Flash and he's not in every episode. Caitlin's not going to have anymore screen time than Barry Allen or the West family.

 

[Avenging Angel]

The West family is barely in the comics. Iris is not a main character. She is only a love interest. Barry will always be the lead. Caitlin as Frost is part of an ensemble with Batman in the JLA. In the show she is barely given time to grow. You guys have to understand that romance is a small part of a sci-fi story. Season 3 is the lowest rated season because the writers have ignored their mission statement. That doesn't include giving more screen time to useless love interests and ignoring the action/science part of the show.

 

[marvelrobbins]

The West family is barely in the comics. Iris is not a main character. She is only a love interest. Barry will always be the lead. Caitlin as Frost is part of an ensemble with Batman in the JLA. In the show she is barely given time to grow. You guys have to understand that romance is a small part of a sci-fi story. Season 3 is the lowest rated season because the writers have ignored their mission statement. That doesn't include giving more screen time to useless love interests and ignoring the action/science part of the show.

i don't know how people can say west family overtook show.in some ways season 3 became iris and wally west show with barry as love intrest for iris.
the writers are to blame for backlash.they are the ones who changed it that is causing backlash with some.

people fell in love with show during season 1 with barry,caitlin,and cisco team.they need to get back to it and sop rewriting history.

 

[metaphysician]

*cough* If the love interest manages to be "not a main character", that speaks somewhat poorly of the quality of the writing. . .