BvS Batman casting thread for Man Of Steel 2 - Part 6

[Kevin Smith]

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And Bale wasn't White American, but he made it work (as did Cavill with Superman).

Bale was white and hid his accent.

I agree, the persona is everything. Race is of no relevance if the necessary persona is delivered.

His skin color is part of his character, that is how he looks.

It is broke if they cast a white actor that doesn't fit the part. I mean you'd rather they cast a non-white guy with the skill to play Batman/Wayne than a white guy without the skills. Superman was Asian in "Lois and Clark", and Dean Cain got rave reviews. President Obama is a better fit than Bush, easily.

First off, the character isn't broke if they cast a guy who can't act, the ACTOR is broke. They've simply miscast the character, it's not an issue of the character failing.

Dean Cain is more white than he is asian otherwise they wouldn't have cast him as a white character, and his Superman is considered one of the worst of all time by most Superman fans.

Not getting into politics, so to each their own with that, but the president is an occupation, a job, NOT a character. He can be any color. A person playing a character has to at least remotely resemble it, otherwise it ceases to be that character. Bruce Wayne/Batman is iconic and works well the way he is, he does not need fixing. If you're going to race change do it for characters that are struggling and need to be made into something new (or create a new character). That should be the criteria.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Dean Cain's Superman was the worst Superman until Routh came along. We went from a guy not giving a sh** about his performance to a guy who didn't even give one.

That's why I don't understand how people can say SR was a better film than MOS. Even if Superman killing Zod or letting buildings fall over bother you, wasn't it at least better that he had a personality? That you could understand his actions, even if you didn't approve of them? I'll take an emotionally conflicted Superman any day over a blank-faced block of wood that can life heavy things reasonably well.

And while you could argue that one should denounce SR as a whole simply due to one performance, isn't that performance the most important thing? These movies were intended to be ABOUT Superman; he's not supposed to be a background character that just shows up whenever the characters who actually have dialogue are about to fall to their deaths.

Sorry, went off on a tangent there. Just had to get that out.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I think Welling was the worst Superman, easily, but I do agree on SR, Rowsoder.

The only way that I think SR is superior to MOS is that as a movie it told its story better. Granted, the story wasn't great, but I do believe it did a better job at telling it than MOS did with its story.

Perhaps this is just Snyder and Singer as directors, maybe?

 

[DSunny]

I'm not a fan of changing an already established character's race only for diversity's sake.

I am a fan of not being afraid to screentest and cast actors that are of different skin colors/ races, and choosing them over other actors on the basis of having the best acting skills for that role.

I do want to see some more mainstream movies with lead characters that aren't white though.

 

[Rowsdower!]

Eh, I've been hard on Welling over the years but I've seen moments from him that made me think there was some talent in there somewhere. Routh was a vacuum as far as I'm concerned. Shame; he seems like a nice enough guy but the only thing I've seen him in where he wasn't glaringly awful was Scott Pilgrim.

Anyway, I can see why some people would feel that SR was better in terms of story, but I honestly don't think that it was. You can pick apart MOS for the flaws in its structure (and there are plenty) but you can easily do the same with SR. I do think Singer is a good director overall but he's certainly had some missteps along the way. If X-Men: DOFP sucks though, I'm giving up on him.

 

[Wheels]

I think Welling was the worst Superman, easily, but I do agree on SR, Rowsoder.

The only way that I think SR is superior to MOS is that as a movie it told its story better. Granted, the story wasn't great, but I do believe it did a better job at telling it than MOS did with its story.

Perhaps this is just Snyder and Singer as directors, maybe?

Welling was Superman? He couldn't even bother to wear the suit.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

In fairness to Welling, I think he would have worn one, he actually warmed to the idea toward the end of Smallville, but TPTB couldn't actually make a quality one for him.

 

[slumcat]

I think Welling was the worst Superman, easily, but I do agree on SR, Rowsoder.

The only way that I think SR is superior to MOS is that as a movie it told its story better. Granted, the story wasn't great, but I do believe it did a better job at telling it than MOS did with its story.

Perhaps this is just Snyder and Singer as directors, maybe?

I genuinely honestly think that MOS overall is let down by a very poor script from Goyer and a very poor story from Nolan and Goyer.

The structure is misguided, the emphasis of the story is wrong, it just struck me as a badly conceived film. Of a million different Superman stories they could have come up with, they came up with a very poor one. I found almost all of the story choices horrid.

I think if anything Snyder and the actors somewhat managed to salvage the film with their work.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

And Bale wasn't White American, but he made it work (as did Cavill with Superman).

Your logic makes no sense. White Americans largely descend from Europe, and Bale is a white European. What do they teach in schools nowadays?

 

[Kevin Smith]

Welling was Superman? He couldn't even bother to wear the suit.

This.

(although that was due to the producers, but still...)

**** Smallville.

 

[Kevin Smith]

I genuinely honestly think that MOS overall is let down by a very poor script from Goyer and a very poor story from Nolan and Goyer.

The structure is misguided, the emphasis of the story is wrong, it just struck me as a badly conceived film. Of a million different Superman stories they could have come up with, they came up with a very poor one. I found almost all of the story choices horrid.

I think if anything Snyder and the actors somewhat managed to salvage the film with their work.

I blame Goyer, I really do. I was just worried with Snyder because I though his Watchmen adaptation could have been better and he has a less than stellar track record. The only film of Singer's I REALLY dislike that I can think of off the top of my head is probably SR. Lol. But I digress, I suppose they're about equal in terms of filmmakes at the end of the day.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

I think Welling was the worst Superman, easily, but I do agree on SR, Rowsoder.

Welling was never Superman, period. He was a young CK -- nothing more.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Your logic makes no sense. White Americans largely descend from Europe, and Bale is a white European. What do they teach in schools nowadays?

Thank you.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

Smallville > MoS . I actually CARED when Jonathan Kent died. I actually felt chemistry between Lois and Clark. Lois was a cool no BS chick, perfect foil to Clark. I felt a brotherly bond between Kal-El and Zod. Smallville Zod and his people were more interesting misplaced characters rather than one-note sci-fi villains.

Man Of Steel has the better action and effects sure and maybe Cavill looked more like Superman in the comics but just because he's new and hunky doesn't mean he's a better actor or even played a better role. Did I give two ****s when he learned to fly 30 minutes into the movie? No I don't care, it wasn't good or exciting. Did I care about his relationship with Jonathan Kent after their two minutes of screen time together? NO I didn't.

"You're a monster Zod, and I'm going to stop you" god I cringed and felt embarrassed for telling my friends this was going to be a good movie.

 

[slumcat]

I blame Goyer, I really do. I was just worried with Snyder because I though his Watchmen adaptation could have been better and he has a less than stellar track record. The only film of Singer's I REALLY dislike that I can think of off the top of my head is probably SR. Lol. But I digress, I suppose they're about equal in terms of filmmakes at the end of the day.

I think with with a great script and great actors, Snyder could direct a masterpiece. That might sound like a backhanded compliment and people might say anybody could with those 2 things but people fail even with that.

But Snyder is talented, I like his work. I like his visual sense. His best work for me still remains to be 300, which I think is sort of his magnum opus where everything worked perfectly. All his other films have script or acting problems.

 

[Kevin Smith]

Eh, I've been hard on Welling over the years but I've seen moments from him that made me think there was some talent in there somewhere. Routh was a vacuum as far as I'm concerned. Shame; he seems like a nice enough guy but the only thing I've seen him in where he wasn't glaringly awful was Scott Pilgrim.

Anyway, I can see why some people would feel that SR was better in terms of story, but I honestly don't think that it was. You can pick apart MOS for the flaws in its structure (and there are plenty) but you can easily do the same with SR. I do think Singer is a good director overall but he's certainly had some missteps along the way. If X-Men: DOFP sucks though, I'm giving up on him.

I hear ya on Singer. I'm thinking DOFP will be good though. Really, everyone liked Singer until SR. I mean, SR is a big enough bomb to discredit at least half of a person's career, but still...I think he is a better director than Ratner to say the least.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Somebody said The Wolverine was a flop, it wasn't. It's going to make 350-400mil worldwide on a 115 million dollar budget. It is a disappointment in the states and will be the lowest grossing X-Men related film here. Fox should be worried about Wolverine overexposer here and make their marketing more about the team than just Wolverine.

 

[Smallville13]

I heard it here actually from another poster ,I dont remember who .
But I think the answer is in the last version of this thread.

If that's the case and they wrap in Oct., that would mean they'd have to be filming now then... Which they aren't...

 

[Kevin Smith]

I think with with a great script and great actors, Snyder could direct a masterpiece. That might sound like a backhanded compliment and people might say anybody could with those 2 things but people fail even with that.

But Snyder is talented, I like his work. I like his visual sense. His best work for me still remains to be 300, which I think is sort of his magnum opus where everything worked perfectly. All his other films have script or acting problems.

I agree with this.


I am really, really, REALLY hoping he gets this with Superman/Batman.

Really hoping for it. If WB is smart they will listen to the criticisms and get someone other than Goyer in there or at least someone to assist him with it this time. He clearly is better with input.

(of course, backhanded scanrio is if Batman/Superman is like the BIGGEST movie of 2015, WB will be convinced it's because it was Batman, which I suppose is true in a way, because hey - who isn't excited about the idea of Superman and batman teaming up? But that's not how I meant that, they'll think it was successful because they stuck Batman in it and not because they got better writers who wrote a better story. That's what kind of worries me. Lol )

 

[Kevin Smith]

Welling was never Superman, period. He was a young CK -- nothing more.

He was terrible is what he was.

 

[ZIPBAGS]

Welling was the "Blur"

Seriously, I liked Smallville and Welling. I felt the producers and executives at Warner really held everything back during the last season or so. They robbed the fans who waited 10 seasons to see him in the suit.

 

[chamber-music]

Let's not turn this thread into which Superman actor sucked the most

Somebody said The Wolverine was a flop, it wasn't. It's going to make 350-400mil worldwide on a 115 million dollar budget. It is a disappointment in the states and will be the lowest grossing X-Men related film here. Fox should be worried about Wolverine overexposer here and make their marketing more about the team than just Wolverine.

I agree. There are posters that would flame you for saying that on the X-boards though

 

[slumcat]

I agree with this.


I am really, really, REALLY hoping he gets this with Superman/Batman.

Really hoping for it. If WB is smart they will listen to the criticisms and get someone other than Goyer in there or at least someone to assist him with it this time. He clearly is better with input.

(of course, backhanded scanrio is if Batman/Superman is like the BIGGEST movie of 2015, WB will be convinced it's because it was Batman, which I suppose is true in a way, because hey - who isn't excited about the idea of Superman and batman teaming up? But that's not how I meant that, they'll think it was successful because they stuck Batman in it and not because they got better writers who wrote a better story. That's what kind of worries me. Lol )

Goyer's (and Nolan's) story ideas for MOS were so bad. What in the whole wide world is the codex? That was an absolutely ludicrous MacGuffin. Just balls.

They absolutely need to get a writer to work with Goyer, even Cameron buckled in and hired writers for Avatar sequels. The Avengers had good dialog, good character interaction, a clean structure, and a forward moving plot. The WB or Goyer films tend to get weighed down in dreary drama which is inherently preposterous because of its absurdity and lame attempts at realism.

And simply based on MOS's performance, I absolutely don't think MOS 2 will be the biggest film of 2015. I expect Star Wars, Avengers 2 and Bond 24 to handily beat MOS 2 at the box office. They probably all of them will also have better reviews.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I'm just having a hard time coming up with a plausible choice for Batman. I still do think, like always, that we are going to get a semi known somewhat or totally respected actor. This talk of fun but vapid action stars and complete unknowns has little chance of happening. And the rumors are fun to talk about but we still don't have anything concrete of course.

I really hope WB doesn't go much older then Cavill to be honest. I'll accept if they do but that doesn't sound as interesting to me. I don't know if I care for the visual of a young Superman and an older Batman.

 

[Wheels]

Welling was the "Blur"

Seriously, I liked Smallville and Welling. I felt the producers and executives at Warner really held everything back during the last season or so. They robbed the fans who waited 10 seasons to see him in the suit.

Yep. I actually watched every episode of the show. That finalie blows chunks.

Anyway, how bout that Batman?