Batman Forever

[Mistah K88]

Batman Forever to me was an okay movie and reminds me of my childhood in a good way. The movie, I don't think was as bad as people say it was and was okay as a Batman movie as I put it above Returns (Penguin is my fav Bat villain next to Joker what Burton did to him was unforgivable).

Anyway, I'm sure we have all heard about the deleted scenes and all of that. Another person read the production draft for Batman Forever and posted this little part. Here's how the scene with Two-Face and the guard was originally going to go:


A SECURITY GUARD, laying on the floor, wrists and feet
bound, trembling with fear.

TWO-FACE
_We_ sure are.

GUARD
...You gonna kill me?

TWO-FACE
Might. Might not. Could say we're of
two minds on the subject.

GUARD
I got family. ...Please.

TWO-FACE
What say we flip for it?

Two-ace shoves the silver dollar under the Guard's nose.
One side shines in mint condition.

TWO-FACE
What could be fairer than the random
toss of an honest coin? Life...

The other side bears deep, disfiguring burns.

TWO-FACE
...or death.

GUARD
Please. I swear I won't say noth-

TWO-FACE
The coin _wants_ to decide.

41 Two-Face flips. The coin spins, gleaming, lands on the 41
floor only inches from the Guard's face.

42 Two-Face STOMPS the coin. Winks at the sweating Guard. 42

TWO-FACE
Exhilarating, isn't it? The
suspense? Sudden death or a new
lease on life? Really makes a man
live in the moment.

Two-Face removes his foot. Unblemished side up.

TWO-FACE
You're in luck. You get to live to
whimper another day.

The Guard SOBS with relief. Harvey's Thugs GRUMBLE.

Two-Face folds his jacket into a pillow, places it under
the Guard's head, now the nicest crook in the world.

TWO-FACE
That floor has got to be very hard.
Is that better?

GUARD
Uh, yeah. Thanks, Mr..uh...Face.

TWO-FACE
Just call us Harvey. Can we get you
a sandwich? A soft drink? Given all
the trouble we caused you, how about
we cut you in for a share of
tonight's haul?

THUG 2
Face! For cryin' out loud! You're
not gonna pay him--

Two-Face turns on Thug 2 with a vengeance, shooting out a
hand that pins the fellow's throat to the wall.

TWO-FACE
Did we ask your opinion? The coin
has rendered its verdict. This man
has a family to take care of. You
have a problem with that?

Now, somehow, I think this film could have been good not average had the final draft had been like this. Riddler was a little over the top, however, Question Mark Man may have been tolerable had Two Face would have been like he was in this original draft. There would have been a contrast between the two. Bruce Wayne choosing to be Batman instead of thinking he has to be Batman was also a great storyppoint. If it wasn't done in this film, I would want something along those lines to be done for the third Nolan Batman movie.

Now would you sayn this movie was horible from the beginning? Or do you feel that the way this movie came out stings harder as it was a missed opportunity?

 

[-JKR-]

It WAS a missed opportunity. I really enjoyed reading the script (both the original draft - MINUS SEX SCENE WITH BATMASK ON , and Goldsman's) more than I enjoy watching the movie.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

The movie's beginnings were epic... and I comend the team for trying to tell a sweeping Batman story.

However...It became a popcorn movie (Good for Iron Man, Bad for Batman). It should really be titled:

Batman Forever: Circa 1995!!

Still love it though in it's own way.

 

[Symbiotic]

Jeez. The way the opening Two-Face scene was originally scripted was great. What the heck happened?

 

[Chris Wallace]

I hadn't watched the movie in awhile, but when I watched it last night, I started thinking...

It's really a very good Batman movie. It has alot of flaws, sure, but at the end of the day it's a very entertaining movie that captures the spirit of Batman very well. Outisde of Batman Begins, its the best characterization of Batman/Bruce Wayne by far, I really like the psychology of the character and his interaction with Chase is better than his interaction with any other Batman love interest. The Robin storyline is handled pretty well. And whether you hate his overacting or not, Jim Carrey does the Riddler great justice.

The only real lowlight of the movie to be is Tommy Lee Jones getting two face all wrong, and the stupid neon light Gotham. And that ridiculous chase scene where Batman drives up a wall. Other than that, it's really quite good... It's a shame that it often gets coupled up with Batman and Robin as Schumaker's horrible Bat-movies, because it's really LIGHTYEARS better than B&R.

Anyone else think Batman Forever is underrated?

There were a lot of good things about this movie, apart from the over-the-top caricature villains, the homoerotic subtext & the things you mentioned. Its follow-up did pull it down more than it deserved, IMO, by amplifying everything that was wrong with it & running some of its good points into the ground.

 

[Dragonyeuw]

Batman forever is a flawed but still enjoyable flick. While I think the general consensus is that particular anthology got worse with each passing movie, Forever has seen more repeated viewings for me than Returns.It is automatically clumped in with B & R, and while it is over the top(thanks to bat-nipples, Carrey's Riddler,and the neon lights), it is a more serious flim that B & R and offers some great insight into Bruce Wayne's psyche. Namely, having to be Batman versus choosing to be Batman. I thought that was a great touch and subplot.

I also think that Val Kilmer's place in the Batman actor hierarchy is underrated because he only did one movie. When people think of the actors to portray the role, Bale and Keaton come to mind. But I think given a strong script and more than one movie, Kilmer would be thought of in the same light. He was a convincing Batman, and to me a better Bruce than Keaton. He played his Bruce as tortured and tormented, unlike the depressing version played by Keaton.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Batman Forever to me was an okay movie and reminds me of my childhood in a good way. The movie, I don't think was as bad as people say it was and was okay as a Batman movie as I put it above Returns (Penguin is my fav Bat villain next to Joker what Burton did to him was unforgivable).

Anyway, I'm sure we have all heard about the deleted scenes and all of that. Another person read the production draft for Batman Forever and posted this little part. Here's how the scene with Two-Face and the guard was originally going to go:


A SECURITY GUARD, laying on the floor, wrists and feet
bound, trembling with fear.

TWO-FACE
_We_ sure are.

GUARD
...You gonna kill me?

TWO-FACE
Might. Might not. Could say we're of
two minds on the subject.

GUARD
I got family. ...Please.

TWO-FACE
What say we flip for it?

Two-ace shoves the silver dollar under the Guard's nose.
One side shines in mint condition.

TWO-FACE
What could be fairer than the random
toss of an honest coin? Life...

The other side bears deep, disfiguring burns.

TWO-FACE
...or death.

GUARD
Please. I swear I won't say noth-

TWO-FACE
The coin _wants_ to decide.

41 Two-Face flips. The coin spins, gleaming, lands on the 41
floor only inches from the Guard's face.

42 Two-Face STOMPS the coin. Winks at the sweating Guard. 42

TWO-FACE
Exhilarating, isn't it? The
suspense? Sudden death or a new
lease on life? Really makes a man
live in the moment.

Two-Face removes his foot. Unblemished side up.

TWO-FACE
You're in luck. You get to live to
whimper another day.

The Guard SOBS with relief. Harvey's Thugs GRUMBLE.

Two-Face folds his jacket into a pillow, places it under
the Guard's head, now the nicest crook in the world.

TWO-FACE
That floor has got to be very hard.
Is that better?

GUARD
Uh, yeah. Thanks, Mr..uh...Face.

TWO-FACE
Just call us Harvey. Can we get you
a sandwich? A soft drink? Given all
the trouble we caused you, how about
we cut you in for a share of
tonight's haul?

THUG 2
Face! For cryin' out loud! You're
not gonna pay him--

Two-Face turns on Thug 2 with a vengeance, shooting out a
hand that pins the fellow's throat to the wall.

TWO-FACE
Did we ask your opinion? The coin
has rendered its verdict. This man
has a family to take care of. You
have a problem with that?

Now, somehow, I think this film could have been good not average had the final draft had been like this. Riddler was a little over the top, however, Question Mark Man may have been tolerable had Two Face would have been like he was in this original draft. There would have been a contrast between the two. Bruce Wayne choosing to be Batman instead of thinking he has to be Batman was also a great storyppoint. If it wasn't done in this film, I would want something along those lines to be done for the third Nolan Batman movie.

Now would you sayn this movie was horible from the beginning? Or do you feel that the way this movie came out stings harder as it was a missed opportunity?

It was a missed opportunity BEFORE I knew about this bit. Do you have a link to this script?

 

[Mistah K88]

Hmm I was wondering what happened to my thread. As for the script, I read it off of another forum, and it was just this part, but I will try to get a link to the whole thing ASAP, cause now I want to read the full draft.

 

[Doctor Jones]

It was a missed opportunity BEFORE I knew about this bit. Do you have a link to this script?

Go on simplyscripts.com to find it.

The script has the correct scenes that are in order that were rearanged in the theatrical version.

 

[Cain]

That scene as quoted is awesome and a well written one when it comes to displaying Two-Face's duality, too bad in the actual script it quickly devolved into "Two-Face is a villain" idiocy as he pulls a "double cross" on the guard.

 

[christpunchers]

BF was great, even without all the cut scenes it still stands as a very well done movie, "fun" enough to be a MOVIE yet underlined with enough dark themes to be a Batman film.

All the Robin scenes were done very well, I highly doubt we will see such a good Robin/Dick Grayson performance on the big screen in our lifetimes.

However, if they were to ever re-release this movie with the cut scenes, I think BF would be MUCH better.

Does anyone think that the Riddler was possibly gay? The makeup that he wore as the Riddler was very feminent (a lot of blush and foundation). His poses weren't easily masculine either.

 

[Spidey 2007]

If they didn't include the Ass shot, "ill get drive thru" and nipples on the costumes, Batman forever probably would have been one of my favorites. I still love it and all ya know, but they could have done without those pointless things.

I think the batman and robin costumes are amazing! If only those designs and suits were in an overall better movie, it'd have been cool. Poison ivy was dead on, Mr, Freezes suit was a work of art visually, and Robins suit was more mature and sleek. Bane shouldn't have existed in the movie. Wouldn't even have minded that costume if he wasn't so bumbling. It COULD have worked, lol.

Its cool to me though, considering it represents the specific time line of when robin was introduced anyway, I look at it as a representation of what batman was in the 60s and stuff...

And the fact that Batman is the King right now.. i think its okay not to be embarrassed by Batman & Robin anymore, but embrace it for what it is, and know that what were getting now is masterful.

 

[Spidey 2007]

Also the Original version of the opening two face scene just reeks of his first appearance in the comics! He was both a good guy and bad guy, The coin did alot more deciding than just a simple kill... And that unused scene there could have been awesome. But oh well.

 

[SUPERSEBAS]

For me, the Batman panter costume is the most beautiful of all movies, and there is one time that I buy for a friend a batman returns cowl, for him was the best cowl, so before to give it to him, I request my friend to take me some photos, and for our surprise, I look a loot as the forever batman, so I put my face on one image who have the same angle of one of my photos and i put it a littel darker to make look better in the image, and it looks almost identical.

If I get the oportinity, I would love to buy a batman forever panter cowl and maybe an entire suit.

here are the photos.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Wow, you do look alot like Kilmer with half your face showing.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I liked the cowl. And I really liked the belt, too.

 

[Spidey 2007]

Wow, you do look alot like Kilmer with half your face showing.

Wonder what his other half looks like, lol.

 

[Two-Face]

great work.

 

[ross2287]

Wonder what his other half looks like, lol.

He probably wears the mask to hide his bald head and unsightly features.

Mask of Zorro...anyone...anyone?
Just kidding, it does look good on you!

 

[BH/HHH]

When this movie first came out I loved it, then as I got older I thought it was rubbish but recentley my friend bought it on Blu Ray and I rewatched it and really enjoyed it. It definitely has its flaws but some things I noticed on rewatch is that Val Kilmer is a good Batman, Robin isnt as annoying as I remembered and his arc works quite well. Tommy Lee is still crap although the opening scene in this film is the best of the original Batmovies. The suit in the beginning (minus the nipples) is probably the best suit he had in the original movies aswell. The actions pretty good in this film too and lastly its a decent popcorn movie.

BTW it looks really good on Blu Ray.

 

[DX]

I liked the cowl. And I really liked the belt, too.

Y'know if you take away the codpiece and nipples, the panther suit might have been the best suit of the series...I'm being serious...

 

[BatmanForNever]

It's my favorite.

 

[Rac]

I don't really like BF at all. As a kid I remember thinking it was ok, but couple of years ago it was on TV and I started watching it but couldn't watch it more than 10 or 20 minutes.

I'm thinking of rewatching it again someday. Maybe.

 

[BatmanForNever]

I've in my lifetime seen it about 100 times, heck in one night I watched it 4 times in a row.t:

 

[S.A.A.D.]

I've been giving this movie alot of thought again,and am inclined to believe that there is alot to admire about it despite it's short comings just like other movies,IMO it's a good threequel as a part of the original Batman movie series. I do think it would be perfect if it was a bit more serious and didn't have Tommy Lee Jones over acting. I don't find anything gay about the nipples and just see it as a silly addition to the suits,and as for Two Face flipping a coin to get a result he wants,I see nothing wrong with it because like other villians in general he wants things to go his way. And I don't know why,but I just think Riddler and Two Face were being weird when they should have been more serious when they weren't up to anything. It's great that this thread exists and I hope as time goes on more that this movie gets enough and more credit that it deserves.