The Dark Knight Batman is the Grand Inquisitor

[Anita18]

Just found it actually, someone linked to it here. Was that you, LOL? Very cool observations, been reading through the reviews he linked to.

 

[Melkay]

^ Yeah, haha, if you saw the link in the Frank Miller thread, it was me. And yes, very cool observations indeed.

 

[Visceral]

His thoughts on begins are interesting as well, 'shades of white' is a weird way to put it.

 

[gwynplaine]

Nobody expects the spanish inquisition.

 

[the_scream]

"Sometimes the truth isn't good enough, sometimes, people need their faith rewarded".....

And as he says that, they show Alfred burning the note from Rachel, allowing us to see that this applies to Batman himself.

Good point. I completely missed that connection! Man, this film is so good.

 

[Doc Samson]

Good point. I completely missed that connection! Man, this film is so good.

It certainly is. Just the fact that a "comic book" movie can lend itself to these sort of discussions is a feat in itself. I think that stigma can finally be lifted, comic book movies can be artistic and deep, just like anything else. Us fans already knew that, now the general public and the Academy have no choice but to catch up....

 

[zmystico]

It certainly is. Just the fact that a "comic book" movie can lend itself to these sort of discussions is a feat in itself. I think that stigma can finally be lifted, comic book movies can be artistic and deep, just like anything else. Us fans already knew that, now the general public and the Academy have no choice but to catch up....

Its artistic, deep, and most importantly to me...almost completely grounded in reality. Nothing is done that is too far of a stretch of the imagination, no super powers, no technology that just isn't possible, not a CGI fest in any means. It also has some "horror" to it, but doesn't rely on gore convey fear.

The fact Batman and Gordon lied doesn't bother me, although its a sin to lie, the lie wasn't done to deceive. It was done for the greater good, sure if Gordon told the entire city exactly what happened that some would have understood Dent's snapping, but the mob mentality of the general public would explode and any and all faith in the system would have been lost. It would be exactly as Ra's wanted in Begins "Gotham would rip itself apart in fear." Thats why its acceptable for the lie to exist to me, not to keep Dent's name intact, but to keep from having Gotham's faith from being destroyed.

 

[myway]

Someone else said this earlier and while it may be one of the simplest things said throughout this thread, it's nonetheless the most fundamental important; everyone deserves to know the truth, simple as that. Not only is that morally and philosophically self evident to me, but it's also pragmatic because someone will not always be there to cover up the truth for people. Life can be hard and people have to come to terms with reality and deal accordingly. This being said, I really hope they address this further in B3which I'm confident they will.

 

[metalhead_dave]

This probably IS the greatest thread I've seen discussing The Dark Knight. Melkay, Danakel, you guys are freaking awesome. I'm going to put this in my sig now, and direct ANYBODY who doesn't understand the movie(thinks it's too right wing, thinks it's too left wing, etc) to this thread.

 

[Melkay]

Thank you metalhead_dave.

And myway, I don't think it's that simple. But it's an opinion, and not an absurd one, of course.

 

[Visceral]

Hey guys been a while since I been to this thread but I am in law school now and we reviewed RICO cases the other night. Had to maintain maturity just to hold back from talking about Harvey Dent the whole time.

And of course that meant i had to pop the DVD back in. While doing it I saw another little thing that caught my eye. It was that Rachel was being kept on a road called Cicero.

And as we know there are other lines in the film that are chock full of meaning...

Here is where I really have to applaud Nolan’s writing. Goyer probably explained the Long Halloween to him and then Nolan took it to the extreme. The Long Halloween brings a Gangster element back to Batman, this we know. Harvey Dent’s slogan is a key to understanding just how much was added to the character though. “I believe in Harvey Dent” comes from the graphic novel and is an obvious homage to the opening lines in The Godfather. The lines explain how the American Justice system fails and gives away to corruption.


“I believe in America. America has made my fortune. And I raised my daughter in American fashion. I gave her freedom, but I taught her never to dishonor her family. She found a boyfriend. Not an Italian. She went to the movies with him. She stayed out late. I didn’t protest. Two months ago, he took her for a drive with another boyfriend. They made her drink whiskey. And then they tried to take advantage of her. She resisted. She kept her honor. So they beat her like an animal. . . . Then I said to my wife for justice we must go to Don Corleone.”


Heroes are symbols to people. It’s obvious that in Dent lies people’s faith of Gotham’s justice system. He is after all the first credible line of Justice the city has had in decades. However more is being said her for what Dent represents. Dent represents more than just America as well. Though he and Batman both could be related to the war on terror, and I know they have. What is being said is far bigger than that. Dent represents more than America. He represents human institutions, rules, law (human law to be specific), and order. So his fall is interesting as it shows that human duality between good and evil or order and chaos is inescapable. Communism or Capitalism doesn’t matter. The Joker, or Chaos, destroyed the best of them. Does this mean that all rules are meaningless? No, Batman knows that with knowledge that Dent has fallen people will lose faith in law and more people will die.

Anyways Cicero was a Roman philosopher who believed similar to what Rachel believed that Truth was important in law.

A bureaucrat is the most despicable of men, though he is needed as vultures are needed, but one hardly admires vultures whom bureaucrats so strangely resemble. I have yet to meet a bureaucrat who was not petty, dull, almost witless, crafty or stupid, an oppressor or a thief, a holder of little authority in which he delights, as a boy delights in possessing a vicious dog. Who can trust such creatures?

Anyways this word pops up at an important part of the film, thematically and plotwise, I doubt with all Nolan's references to roman law this street name was random.