Batman OYL discussion thread

Mee said:
But it shall set you free. If you can handle it that is.

Exactly, and that's what it did. Supes actually matters now with the Crisis.
 
I was thinking about reading Superman: OYL but the thing is I do not stay up to date with Superman so I would be confused or something. I wish I knew more about his storylines but I am way more of a Batman fan. Plus not enough time to read about all of the superheroes I like. =P
 
cass said:
He has to because an idiot girl used tried to impress him.
No, he didn't have to treat everyone else poorly. He didn't have to take control over the GCPD.

Abandoned Gotham to try to convince the Government from making it a No Man's Land. Tried to prevent another Jason Todd by taking away the Batgirl mantle, especially from someone who is a known killer.
No, he abandoned Gotham City because he was disallusioned because of the government abandoning Gotham City, and other events prior to that. He had a moment of weakness, it was not to make a point. The Huntress was not another Jason Todd case, she was very capable, hence why he invited her to join the Justice League of America, and she was not a killer, just a woman filled with anger, who beleived that certain people deserved to die. He gave her a mission that was impossible to fulfill and he expected her to succeed flawlessly. He took the mantle of Batgirl away from her because she was "not good enough" to be part of the Batman family.

Gordon was his best friend.
And Gordon was Oracle's father, and she did more than Batman. Batman should have been there to try and track down Gordon's assassin along with Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, and Batgirl. Also he alienated Alfred to where he decided to leave Bruce's employ.

Trying to prevent another Jason Todd.
If he wanted to prevent another Jason Todd, he wouldn't have made her Robin in the first place he would have made it harder for the Spoiler to continue her activities. He made her Robin giving her hopes, aspirations, and dreams, and he snatched them away from her without giving her a chance to prove herself.

She mindwiped him.
Hence why I said it was understandable.

He didn't want Dick to overstretch himself.
Yet it was okay for Batman to be a member of the Justice League and the Outsiders and manage his own team of vigilantes. Hypocritical. Robin taking down Brother Blood for good was more important than Clayface kidnapping a baby, and despite all that Dick still managed to do both.

In case there are betrayals such as Parallax, and a Max Lord controlled Superman.
Like Wonder Woman said, Batman should have told them about the contingency plans but he didn't have to go into detail about the schematics of the plans.

Why does he have to tell Nightwing?
Maybe because Nightwing was the leader of the Outsiders and is his own son for Christs sakes. He had no need for all the secrecy. I would kinda like to know who was paying me and funding my team.

He's a control freak.
Yes he is, it's a reason why he is considered to be a *****e. But he told that to the Flash in anger, saying that his rouges were incompetent and the Flash wasn't capable of handling them. What does that tell you what Batman is telling the Flash?

Parallax.
Ever hear of atonement, also Parallax was a separate entity that took advantage of Hal Jordan's greif. There's a difference between not trusting someone and acting like a complete *****ebag towards them when they are trying to do the right thing.

Mindwiped.
Batman went way too far with creating Brother Mk. I.

The truth hurts.
The tie-in issues of Superaman and Infinite Crisis itself, have proven that Batman was wrong. Superman is still an inspiration to those here on Earth, before and AFTER he died.
 
:eek:

Lol. Another long and elaborate come back. Wonder what cass will say.
 
hippie_hunter said:
No, he didn't have to treat everyone else poorly. He didn't have to take control over the GCPD.

It was all part of his plan.


No, he abandoned Gotham City because he was disallusioned because of the government abandoning Gotham City, and other events prior to that. He had a moment of weakness, it was not to make a point. The Huntress was not another Jason Todd case, she was very capable, hence why he invited her to join the Justice League of America, and she was not a killer, just a woman filled with anger, who beleived that certain people deserved to die. He gave her a mission that was impossible to fulfill and he expected her to succeed flawlessly. He took the mantle of Batgirl away from her because she was "not good enough" to be part of the Batman family.

He left Gotham to argue for it to be saved. He also had to come up with his own plan to save Gotham since all else failed. Huntress was a dangerous individual who he invited to the JLA to monitor. He took Batgirl away from her because it's possible that she could've snapped while wearing the bat logo and caused more strife with Gordon than he already had at the moment.



And Gordon was Oracle's father, and she did more than Batman. Batman should have been there to try and track down Gordon's assassin along with Robin, Nightwing, Azrael, and Batgirl. Also he alienated Alfred to where he decided to leave Bruce's employ.

Emotional trauma by losing his best friend. He has weaknesses, he does screw up, he's only human.


If he wanted to prevent another Jason Todd, he wouldn't have made her Robin in the first place he would have made it harder for the Spoiler to continue her activities. He made her Robin giving her hopes, aspirations, and dreams, and he snatched them away from her without giving her a chance to prove herself.

But he realzied she very well could've been a Jason Todd and fired her to try and prevent that.


Hence why I said it was understandable.


Yet it was okay for Batman to be a member of the Justice League and the Outsiders and manage his own team of vigilantes. Hypocritical. Robin taking down Brother Blood for good was more important than Clayface kidnapping a baby, and despite all that Dick still managed to do both.

He's Batman. Dick's not.


Like Wonder Woman said, Batman should have told them about the contingency plans but he didn't have to go into detail about the schematics of the plans.

"Hey guys, I have plans to take you down if you ever go rogue. so...uh...be ready." WTF?

Maybe because Nightwing was the leader of the Outsiders and is his own son for Christs sakes. He had no need for all the secrecy. I would kinda like to know who was paying me and funding my team.

He's the goddamn Batman.


Yes he is, it's a reason why he is considered to be a *****e. But he told that to the Flash in anger, saying that his rouges were incompetent and the Flash wasn't capable of handling them. What does that tell you what Batman is telling the Flash?

He said if Flash didn't handle them, he would. He told Flash to do his job. That's not being a *****e.


Ever hear of atonement, also Parallax was a separate entity that took advantage of Hal Jordan's greif. There's a difference between not trusting someone and acting like a complete *****ebag towards them when they are trying to do the right thing.

It's his mindset that Hal opened himself up to it. Hal was responiable for lots of death and strife. Batman doesn't forget, ever.

Batman went way too far with creating Brother Mk. I.

Possibly. But he deemed it necessary because of the mindwipe, and because of the possibilities of those going rogue.


The tie-in issues of Superaman and Infinite Crisis itself, have proven that Batman was wrong. Superman is still an inspiration to those here on Earth, before and AFTER he died.

Batman said that before hand. It inspired Supes to be better. The truth hurts, but it sets you free.
 
cass said:
It was all part of his plan.
The plan didn't even need to exist in the first place. The results of Batman's plan were the deaths of Orpheus and Spoiler, Black Mask controlling all of Gotham City's gangs, hundreds of deaths, the allienation of Robin and Oracle, Batgirl left for Bludhaven, and superheroes were illegalized in Gotham City. Batman's plan gave him no right to treat Lesile and Oracle like complete crap. Batman's plan gave him no right to take over the GCPD.

He left Gotham to argue for it to be saved. He also had to come up with his own plan to save Gotham since all else failed. Huntress was a dangerous individual who he invited to the JLA to monitor. He took Batgirl away from her because it's possible that she could've snapped while wearing the bat logo and caused more strife with Gordon than he already had at the moment.
No, he left for Washington D.C. to save Gotham City. He left for Monaco because he was dissalussioned. It took Talia to come and see him and tell him to suck it up for him to come back.
The Huntress was not a murderer, she was a person who saw that certain people deserved to die. She was an angry person and he gave her League membership as an attempt not for him to monitor but for her to control that anger. But that was not the reason why he took away the mantle of Batgirl from her. He saw competence in her, and he gave her a mission that even he would have failed in. Because she failed she wasn't good enough.
Batgirl killing would not have caused further strife between Batman and Gordon. Gordon felt abandoned by Batman for leaving Gotham City and killing was tolerated during the No Man's Land, hence why Batman said it was alright to Gordon when he killed a man and why he would have let Gordon kill the Joker.

Emotional trauma by losing his best friend. He has weaknesses, he does screw up, he's only human.
Gordon is Oracle's father and yet she still worked hard to try and find her father's assassin. And Gordon being shot did not give Batman the right to alienate Oracle and Alfred. It did not give Batman the right to abandon Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, and Azrael to do everything by themselves. Batman should have taken action also and helped his apprentices and the GCPD to find the assassin.

But he realzied she very well could've been a Jason Todd and fired her to try and prevent that.
Yes he did see Jason in Spoiler, but he should have trusted her more, he should have trained her more, he should have treated her more kindly. He should have let her in more action beside him. There was so much Batman could have done to prevent Stephanie's outcome without actually firing her.

He's Batman. Dick's not.
Dick's work with the Teen Titans was far more important than Batman's at the time. Dick did manage to combine college, the Teen Titans, and his work with Batman and he still wasn't good enough for Batman.

"Hey guys, I have plans to take you down if you ever go rogue. so...uh...be ready." WTF?
Batman did not trust his teammates. People should trust their teammates. His collegues had the right to know that Batman did develop plans that were to be used against them at the right time without having to know what they were. They would still be unprepared and Batman's trustworthiness would have gone up. In the end, Batman's paranoia caused Ra's al Ghul to steal his plans and use them against the Justice League and Batman's expulsion from the Justice League of America.

He's the goddamn Batman.
Someone's been reading All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder a little too much :o

He said if Flash didn't handle them, he would. He told Flash to do his job. That's not being a *****e.
Batman's rogues have attacked the DC Universe tons of times without Batman's assistance. Does that make Batman incompetent? Does that mean Batman is not doing his job. Batman has taken down villains from the rogues galleries of other superheroes such as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Does that mean that they are not doing their jobs? No, they are all people, and no person cannot be two places at the same time. Not even the Flash.

It's his mindset that Hal opened himself up to it. Hal was responiable for lots of death and strife. Batman doesn't forget, ever.
Hal sacrificed his life to save the universe. He's tried to make amends for his sins when he was the Spectre. Hal is a great hero as Green Lantern, yet that does not make him trustworthy? Yes, Batman does have the right not to trust Hal for the Parallax incident, even though Hal was not responsible for it, the entity Parallax was (for taking advantage of Hal in greif for losing everyone he ever loved, his entire city was GONE), but Batman does not have the right to be a complete dickwad to him.

Possibly. But he deemed it necessary because of the mindwipe, and because of the possibilities of those going rogue.
Again, Batman went to far with the Brother Mk. I satelite. The mindwipe did not give him the right to spy on Superman, Wonder Woman, and every superhero that was not involved in the Power Pact. The end result of Batman's paranoia ended up with Alexander Luthor giving Brother Eye "life" of it's own, Max Lord taking control of it, the deaths of Blue Beetle, Rocket Red, and many others by Checkmate and the OMACs, the creation of the OMACs, the alienation of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Booster Gold.

Batman said that before hand. It inspired Supes to be better. The truth hurts, but it sets you free.
No, Batman was wrong, Superman was still an inspiration, years after he came back to life. It did not mean to Superman to be better to inspire the people, he was already doing it, he inspired the people to rise up against the White Martians in JLA: New World Order, the entire superhero community saw him as a leader, he led the DC Universe during the Brainac 13/Imperiex crisis, he was loved by all. Infinite Crisis further proved that Batman was wrong.
 
This is getting juicy. Plus getting some extra info on some of the storylines I have not read. :up:
 
hippie_hunter said:
The plan didn't even need to exist in the first place. The results of Batman's plan were the deaths of Orpheus and Spoiler, Black Mask controlling all of Gotham City's gangs, hundreds of deaths, the allienation of Robin and Oracle, Batgirl left for Bludhaven, and superheroes were illegalized in Gotham City. Batman's plan gave him no right to treat Lesile and Oracle like complete crap. Batman's plan gave him no right to take over the GCPD.

Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.

No, he left for Washington D.C. to save Gotham City. He left for Monaco because he was dissalussioned. It took Talia to come and see him and tell him to suck it up for him to come back.
The Huntress was not a murderer, she was a person who saw that certain people deserved to die. She was an angry person and he gave her League membership as an attempt not for him to monitor but for her to control that anger. But that was not the reason why he took away the mantle of Batgirl from her. He saw competence in her, and he gave her a mission that even he would have failed in. Because she failed she wasn't good enough.
Batgirl killing would not have caused further strife between Batman and Gordon. Gordon felt abandoned by Batman for leaving Gotham City and killing was tolerated during the No Man's Land, hence why Batman said it was alright to Gordon when he killed a man and why he would have let Gordon kill the Joker.

The Huntress, with all her issues, very well could've snapped while wearing a bat logo. And last time I checked Gordon had a badge, not a costume.



Gordon is Oracle's father and yet she still worked hard to try and find her father's assassin. And Gordon being shot did not give Batman the right to alienate Oracle and Alfred. It did not give Batman the right to abandon Nightwing, Robin, Oracle, Batgirl, and Azrael to do everything by themselves. Batman should have taken action also and helped his apprentices and the GCPD to find the assassin.

He screwed up. I've already said that.


Yes he did see Jason in Spoiler, but he should have trusted her more, he should have trained her more, he should have treated her more kindly. He should have let her in more action beside him. There was so much Batman could have done to prevent Stephanie's outcome without actually firing her.

He should've never let her in in the first place. It's not the training, it's the drive that's important. Dick had it. Tim had it. Jason was just an angry kid (see Huntress). Spoiler was just a girl trying to impress whomever she could.


Dick's work with the Teen Titans was far more important than Batman's at the time. Dick did manage to combine college, the Teen Titans, and his work with Batman and he still wasn't good enough for Batman.

Because Batman is Batman. Dick isn't.


Batman did not his teammates. His collegues had the right to know that Batman did develop plans that were to be used against them at the right time without having to know what they were. They would still be unprepared and Batman's trustworthiness would have gone up. In the end, Batman's paranoia caused Ra's al Ghul to steal his plans and use them against the Justice League and Batman's expulsion from the Justice League of America.

I think it'd be common sense that Batman, one of the world's brightest minds and also a paranoid bastard, would have plans for everyone. To be upset because he didn't come out and say it is childish.


Someone's been reading All-Star Batman and Robin: The Boy Wonder a little too much :o

:rolleyes:

Batman's rogues have attacked the DC Universe tons of times without Batman's assistance. Does that make Batman incompetent? Does that mean Batman is not doing his job. Batman has taken down villains from the rogues galleries of other superheroes such as Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. Does that mean that they are not doing their jobs? No, they are all people, and no person cannot be two places at the same time. Not even the Flash.

He told Flash if he can't do his job, he'd do it for him. Batman's a control freak. Everyone fails.


Hal sacrificed his life to save the universe. He's tried to make amends for his sins when he was the Spectre. Hal is a great hero as Green Lantern, yet that does not make him trustworthy? Yes, Batman does have the right not to trust Hal for the Parallax incident, even though Hal was not responsible for it, the entity Parallax was (for taking advantage of Hal in greif for losing everyone he ever loved, his entire city was GONE), but Batman does not have the right to be a complete dickwad to him.

If Batman doesn't keep an eye on him, who will? That's his mindset. Hal was a dick to him by allowing Batman's mindwipe.


Again, Batman went to far with the Brother Mk. I satelite. The mindwipe did not give him the right to spy on Superman, Wonder Woman, and every superhero that was not involved in the Power Pact. The end result of Batman's paranoia ended up with Alexander Luthor giving Brother Eye "life" of it's own, Max Lord taking control of it, the deaths of Blue Beetle, Rocket Red, and many others by Checkmate and the OMACs, the creation of the OMACs, the alienation of Superman, Wonder Woman, and Booster Gold.

It gave him a right to make sure that if something like that was to happen again, he'd know it. The end result of the Power Pact's lies was the creation of the Crisis. To blam Batman for it is poposterous. If he hadn't been mindwiped, he wouldn't have had the need to spy.



No, Batman was wrong, Superman was still an inspiration, years after he came back to life. It did not mean to Superman to be better to inspire the people, he was already doing it, he inspired the people to rise up against the White Martians in JLA: New World Order, the entire superhero community saw him as a leader, he led the DC Universe during the Brainac 13/Imperiex crisis, he was loved by all. Infinite Crisis further proved that Batman was wrong.

The last time Superman was truly appreciated was his funeral. His death inspired Steel to become a hero. The entire community met and mourned and were determined to step up. In between then and Crisis, it was Superman as a defacto leader. Infinite Crisis just proved Batman right. Superman needed to step up, and he finally did.
 
cass said:
Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.

I think he is right about that. She messed up the Matches Malone plan since Batman was him if he were to ever put the plan into motion. And that was a good plan if it was done right. Maybe Bats should have told Spoiler about it ahead of time?
 
trustyside-kick said:
I think he is right about that. She messed up the Matches Malone plan since Batman was him if he were to ever put the plan into motion. And that was a good plan if it was done right. Maybe Bats should have told Spoiler about it ahead of time?

It's a need to know basis. She didn't need to know.
 
cass said:
Wrong. It was not the result of Batman's plan. If Spoiler hadn't enacted the plan and screwed it up with Matches Malone's non appearance, it would've worked. Spoiler screwed up, not Batman.
Wrong, Batman was able to set the plan foward when Spoiler unintentionally started it. The plan got screwed up by Black Mask killing Orpheus. But like I said, the plan shouldn't have existed in the first place. And in the end, bad things happend and they are on Batman's hands for creating that plan.

The Huntress, with all her issues, very well could've snapped while wearing a bat logo. And last time I checked Gordon had a badge, not a costume.
Very true, but the Huntress is not a murderer, the only way she would have killed was if she had no choice.

He screwed up. I've already said that.
He did screw up, big time. He came off as a little b***hy *****e in the process.

He should've never let her in in the first place. It's not the training, it's the drive that's important. Dick had it. Tim had it. Jason was just an angry kid (see Huntress). Spoiler was just a girl trying to impress whomever she could.
Very true again, but better training could make all the difference. Batman should have went to Spoiler's mother, and done other things to prevent her outcome. He shouldn't have treated her poorly. She was just a young girl.

Because Batman is Batman. Dick isn't.
So what. Batman is just a man, like Dick. Batman had no reason to fire him.

I think it'd be common sense that Batman, one of the world's brightest minds and also a paranoid bastard, would have plans for everyone. To be upset because he didn't come out and say it is childish.
Wouldn't you be upset if a man you trusted your life with, a man you have worked with, a man you have developed a form of respect, friendship and comradery with has come up with plans that could potentially kill you. The Leaguers had the right to know about the plans existance. Batman did not have to tell them what they were. An important part of a team is to trust one another, Batman did not exhibit that.

I was just having some fun :p

He told Flash if he can't do his job, he'd do it for him. Batman's a control freak. Everyone fails.
Which are qualities of a *****ebag. Let's all go up to Batman for not controlling the inmates at Arkham when the Society broke all of them free when Batman was at Alexander Luthor's base, or he didn't see the Joker go to New York City and torture President Lex Luthor, or stop Mr. Freeze from teaming up with Killer Frost and terrorize Firestorm and Firehawk.

If Batman doesn't keep an eye on him, who will? That's his mindset. Hal was a dick to him by allowing Batman's mindwipe.
Very true, it was wrong that Hal allowed Batman's mindwipe. But who gives Batman the right to keep an eye on the other heroes? This is the same controversy that came about in the OMAC Project.

It gave him a right to make sure that if something like that was to happen again, he'd know it. The end result of the Power Pact's lies was the creation of the Crisis. To blam Batman for it is poposterous. If he hadn't been mindwiped, he wouldn't have had the need to spy.
Yes, the Power Pact did cause Batman's paranoia, but it is Batman's fault that he went to far. He did not have to creat a spy satelite which led to the Infinite Crisis.

The last time Superman was truly appreciated was his funeral. His death inspired Steel to become a hero. The entire community met and mourned and were determined to step up. In between then and Crisis, it was Superman as a defacto leader. Infinite Crisis just proved Batman right. Superman needed to step up, and he finally did.
Superman has always been appreciated. If Superman wasn't an inspiration, then the people would not have listened to him during the Hyperion invasion or the Brainiac 13/Imperiex crisis. He would not be admired by the people as much as he is. The people would not build a statue of him. Infinite Crisis proved Batman wrong by showing that Superman was always an inspiration. Batman only said that out of anger and frustration.
 
cass said:
It's a need to know basis. She didn't need to know.

Ya but she stumbled across them anyway. If she knew at least that he was Matches Malone maybe it could have been different I guess.
 
hippie_hunter said:
Wrong, Batman was able to set the plan foward when Spoiler unintentionally started it. The plan got screwed up by Black Mask killing Orpheus. But like I said, the plan shouldn't have existed in the first place. And in the end, bad things happend and they are on Batman's hands for creating that plan.

In order for the plan to work, Matches Malone had to be present. Spoiler screwed it up. Contigency plans need to to exist.

Very true, but the Huntress is not a murderer, the only way she would have killed was if she had no choice.

There's the possibility she would kill. That's inappropriate if you're going to wear a bat costume.



He did screw up, big time. He came off as a little b***hy *****e in the process.


Very true again, but better training could make all the difference. Batman should have went to Spoiler's mother, and done other things to prevent her outcome. He shouldn't have treated her poorly. She was just a young girl.

Better training doesn't prevent one man from taking you and beating you to death with a crowbar, especially when all you are is a little girl looking for attention.


So what. Batman is just a man, like Dick. Batman had no reason to fire him.

Batman wouldn't want his "son" to overdo it. He doesn't want him to be like Bruce. That's his mindset.



Wouldn't you be upset if a man you trusted your life with, a man you have worked with, a man you have developed a form of respect, friendship and comradery with has come up with plans that could potentially kill you. The Leaguers had the right to know about the plans existance. Batman did not have to tell them what they were. An important part of a team is to trust one another, Batman did not exhibit that.

Why tell them? What if they just mindwipe you so you forget you even have plans? Batman didn't have to tell them period. They never told Batman they mindwiped him.



I was just having some fun :p


Which are qualities of a *****ebag. Let's all go up to Batman for not controlling the inmates at Arkham when the Society broke all of them free when Batman was at Alexander Luthor's base, or he didn't see the Joker go to New York City and torture President Lex Luthor, or stop Mr. Freeze from teaming up with Killer Frost and terrorize Firestorm and Firehawk.

Telling someone to do their job doesn't make you a *****ebag. If anyone has the balls to tell Batman, then go ahead and tell them.


Very true, it was wrong that Hal allowed Batman's mindwipe. But who gives Batman the right to keep an eye on the other heroes? This is the same controversy that came about in the OMAC Project.

So it's ok if someone does it as long as it's not Batman?



Yes, the Power Pact did cause Batman's paranoia, but it is Batman's fault that he went to far. He did not have to creat a spy satelite which led to the Infinite Crisis.

It's the Power Pact who went too far.



Superman has always been appreciated. If Superman wasn't an inspiration, then the people would not have listened to him during the Hyperion invasion or the Brainiac 13/Imperiex crisis. He would not be admired by the people as much as he is. The people would not build a statue of him. Infinite Crisis proved Batman wrong by showing that Superman was always an inspiration. Batman only said that out of anger and frustration.

They built a statue at his death. Military members may not view Bush as an inspiration, but they listen to him. Students may not view their teachers as inspiration, but they listen to them. It's not inspiration, it's authority. Superman was a de facto leader. Now, thanks to the Crisis, he's an inspiration.
 
trustyside-kick said:
Ya but she stumbled across them anyway. If she knew at least that he was Matches Malone maybe it could have been different I guess.

Yeah it would've all been ok. But still, she didn't need to know.
 
trustyside-kick said:
I was thinking about reading Superman: OYL but the thing is I do not stay up to date with Superman so I would be confused or something. I wish I knew more about his storylines but I am way more of a Batman fan. Plus not enough time to read about all of the superheroes I like. =P

I highly, highly recommend picking up the OYL Superman comics right now. The art is stunning, and the writing is a completly fresh start--even if you haven't read a Superman comic since 1993 you'll have no difficulty pickng these comics up. Siomply put, the OYL comics have taken all the best post-Crisis part of the Superman mythos (Intergang, Lex as a businessman, the atmosphere at the Planet) and re-configured them.
 
David Ford said:
I highly, highly recommend picking up the OYL Superman comics right now. The art is stunning, and the writing is a completly fresh start--even if you haven't read a Superman comic since 1993 you'll have no difficulty pickng these comics up. Siomply put, the OYL comics have taken all the best post-Crisis part of the Superman mythos (Intergang, Lex as a businessman, the atmosphere at the Planet) and re-configured them.

Completely fresh start writing? So if I am not up-to-date with Superman's storylines or his villains I will not be confused?
 
so far james robinmsons run has been fantastic. im really diging the new attitude of bats and robin. all i want toknow is, what is DC doing with the villains? are they replacing them with minor villains and doing something with them? in batman 652 harvey blows him and his apartment up(still wiating to see if he's really dead or not.) kgbeast,magpie,scarface and the ventriqulest are all dead.
 
Click here.

Robinson's run was been amazing, and the art so far is great as well. I'm really liking how Bruce's and Tim's relationship has grown stronger within the last year, seeing Gordon and Bullock back has also made the book one to read for OYL. After this arc ends, I'm looking forward to Grant Morrison taking over it. Perhaps by killing some of the lesser known villains, they'll be upgrading the rouges gallery.
 
I'm continually disappointed with the direction they're taking the Gotham City Police Department in. First Gordon's back for no apparent reason after getting shot and retiring for years, now Bullock turns out to have been dirty, along with everyone up to Akins? Akins was about as straight a shooter as they came. I'm forced to wonder if Robinson ever even looked at Gotham Central after learning that Akins is allegedly a dirty cop. Plus, that just makes Gordon look bad, since he hand-picked most of the cops in the MCU and, I believe, Akins himself. Why bring back the guy who apparently is so bad at reading people that about 99% of his appointees turned out to be dirty? The whole GCPD portion of it is awful and makes very little sense in light of other things.

Outside of that, the current run's been good. I like the new, more equalized chemistry between Batman and Robin (although Bruce calling Tim "boy" last issue was weird), and I like that Robin's apparently boned up on his fighting technique. He's a badass fighter as well as being smarter than all the other Bat-characters put together now. Pretty soon, Bruce and Dick'll be able to hang up their tights and enjoy sweet obsoleteness--er, I mean, retirement. ;)

The story's pretty interesting, too. I'm not quite sure if Dent's a red herring and someone's just framing him, or if he's so crazy that he doesn't realize he's murdering people, or if he's actually the killer and Two-Face is back in full effect already. Definitely a good mystery unfolding. I'm kind of sad about the Ventriloquist and Scarface, though. I liked them.
 
I'll posy my reviews to Batman OYL shortly. But before I do: what does everyone think of Batman himself in OYL?
 
He didn't seem to be much less of a dick, from what I'd seen up to the last issue. He was better with the people who are close to him, like Gordon and Robin, but when Harper was introduced to him he just dismissed her as basically a nonentity. I get that he's still supposed to be dark and mysterious, but he can't acknowledge a cop that Gordon himself trusts? Last issue, however, featured two surprising moments: his forgiving Bullock and giving him a second chance and his scene with Harvey. He genuinely seemed pained by the notion that his friend could be falling back on old habits and he'd be powerless to stop it.
 
Man, I'm disappointed that I missed about half of this storyline already. It sounds really good, and I'm eager to read it. Do any of you think they will print this out on paperback?
 
trustyside-kick said:
Completely fresh start writing? So if I am not up-to-date with Superman's storylines or his villains I will not be confused?
You'll definitely be confused. That's the point; it's a bit of a mystery. But you should enjoy it all the same. I certainly am.
tom123 said:
Man, I'm disappointed that I missed about half of this storyline already. It sounds really good, and I'm eager to read it. Do any of you think they will print this out on paperback?
Of course they will. I'd guess it'd be out within 6 months or so.
 
cass said:
In order for the plan to work, Matches Malone had to be present. Spoiler screwed it up. Contigency plans need to to exist.
Yes, but once Batman found out that it was one of his plans, he was able to get it on track. However, the murder of Orpheus ruined any chance of it succeeding. But the most important thing is that the plan should have never existed in the first place.

There's the possibility she would kill. That's inappropriate if you're going to wear a bat costume.
True, but people who have worn Bat-costumes have either killed or attempted to kill: Cassandra Cain killed while training with her father and Lady Shiva as Batgirl, Azrael has killed, Nightwing attempted to kill the Joker. In Hush, even Batman tried to kill him and would have if Gordon didn't stop him. What makes that any different than the Huntress's position? The fact is that Batman treated the Huntress poorly, and as a result she defected to Pettit's gang which killed all the time. If Batman didn't drive her away, she probally would have stayed with Batman's gang and not killed at all.

Better training doesn't prevent one man from taking you and beating you to death with a crowbar, especially when all you are is a little girl looking for attention.
Better training does help. But yes you are right, Jason Todd and Stephanie Brown should have never became Robin. They did lack the drive and abilities that Dick Grayson and Tim Drake did. But again, better training would have probally helped them out a little bit. Jason Todd received better training after he rose from the dead and look at him now, he was able to go toe to toe with the Batman.

Batman wouldn't want his "son" to overdo it. He doesn't want him to be like Bruce. That's his mindset.
No, Batman's mindset is that you do everything his way. Batman beleived that saving a child from Clayface was more important than taking down Brother Blood. Batman demand's perfection. He demands to have things his way. If he didn't want Dick to overdo it, he would have never let him join and lead the Teen Titans in the first place. He wouldn't have let him become Robin. Batman fired Dick because he felt that Dick was slacking in his duties when in truth he was not.

Why tell them? What if they just mindwipe you so you forget you even have plans? Batman didn't have to tell them period. They never told Batman they mindwiped him.
The variation of the Justice League that Batman developed contingency plans for was not behind the mindwipes, it was a group of heroes from the original variation. The point of having a team and working with them is to trust one another, and Batman did not do so. Telling them would be a symbol of trust. The Power Pact did not trust those who were not in their little club and as a result, their secrets were what led to the disbandment of the current variation of the Justice League.

Telling someone to do their job doesn't make you a *****ebag. If anyone has the balls to tell Batman, then go ahead and tell them.
But Batman's villains have terrorized other heroes from the DC Universe, guess that means that Batman wasn't doing his job. The Flash was doing his job, he was out trying to find the murderer of Sue Dibny, the one who attempted to kill Jean Lorring, and the one who threatened Lois Lane. He was trying to make sure that the murderer would not threaten his own wife. The Flash may be the fastest man alive, but he, like everyone, can't be two places at once.

So it's ok if someone does it as long as it's not Batman?
I was saying that no one had the right.

It's the Power Pact who went too far.
They both went to far. The Power Pact had no right to tamper with anyones minds. The Secret Society of Supervillains, Batman, Dr. Light, Dr. Destiny, Catwoman, and any others that were mindwiped. Just like Batman did not have the right to spy on everyone. Two wrongs do not make a right.

They built a statue at his death. Military members may not view Bush as an inspiration, but they listen to him. Students may not view their teachers as inspiration, but they listen to them. It's not inspiration, it's authority. Superman was a de facto leader. Now, thanks to the Crisis, he's an inspiration.
Superman is the de facto leader of the superhero community because he is such an inspiration. He is the beacon of light in the darkness. He gives strength and hope to those who don't have any.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
200,509
Messages
21,742,862
Members
45,573
Latest member
vortep88
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"