Batman R.I.P.

[Paladin2769]

I just did a little research and found a leading theory on what the heck is going on with Batman/the DCU regarding RIP, Final Crisis, et al. It seems that Final Crisis is taking place on New Earth (the one we have been following/reading) while other DC stories like the current Action Comics (with Superman in the future with the LSU) and Batman RIP are on Earth-1. So that "a" Batman meets a horrible end in FC, but in RIP he is only going to be down on his luck for the remainder of the storyline (which may go into 2009).

Morrison has already been quoted at large saying how FC is like LOTR where Sauron takes over and the good guys lose. It would seem this is the apocalypse that ends the New Earth universe since evil wins and everyone is basically living in captivity (whoever is still alive and kicking, that is). Frankly, I was always disappointed with the characterization of Batman on this "New Earth" since he was so crazy and paranoid what with creating Brother Eye (which led to the OMACS and the rest of the IC storyline).

It also would explain why there is a seeming dichotomy between what Batman has gone through lately. In IC, he takes a year off to clear his mind and retrain Dick and Tim and then comes back to Gotham fresh as a daisy (so to speak). I don't think there has been any reference to IC in the RIP storyline which sounds a little odd, don't you think? And isn't it really redundant to have Batman go through the mental ringer after IC and return a little better (mentally) only to have RIP deal him a mental mind-screw (ala winding up homeless and brain-addled on the streets of Gotham)? And then, on top of the RIP story, he gets even more effed-up due to Final Crisis? Sounds terribly like overkill to me.

And does everyone else remember the rumor that came out before IC, that Batman was going to wind up crazy and locked up in Arkham Asylum? Sounds kinda similar to what might happen to him in RIP doesn't it? And Morrison already confirmed that the concept of killing Batman (and the rest of the Trinity) and having them "possessed" by the New Gods was a possiblility until Didio made him change gears. So it's not like these rumors we keep hearing on the net have no truth to them at all. Unless Morrison was mispeaking ala Senator Clinton, I would think that no idea gets thrown out completely, only to be recycled and used later when appropriate.

What does everyone else think?

 

[Keyser Soze]

I just did a little research and found a leading theory on what the heck is going on with Batman/the DCU regarding RIP, Final Crisis, et al. It seems that Final Crisis is taking place on New Earth (the one we have been following/reading) while other DC stories like the current Action Comics (with Superman in the future with the LSU) and Batman RIP are on Earth-1. So that "a" Batman meets a horrible end in FC, but in RIP he is only going to be down on his luck for the remainder of the storyline (which may go into 2009).

Morrison has already been quoted at large saying how FC is like LOTR where Sauron takes over and the good guys lose. It would seem this is the apocalypse that ends the New Earth universe since evil wins and everyone is basically living in captivity (whoever is still alive and kicking, that is). Frankly, I was always disappointed with the characterization of Batman on this "New Earth" since he was so crazy and paranoid what with creating Brother Eye (which led to the OMACS and the rest of the IC storyline).

It also would explain why there is a seeming dichotomy between what Batman has gone through lately. In IC, he takes a year off to clear his mind and retrain Dick and Tim and then comes back to Gotham fresh as a daisy (so to speak). I don't think there has been any reference to IC in the RIP storyline which sounds a little odd, don't you think? And isn't it really redundant to have Batman go through the mental ringer after IC and return a little better (mentally) only to have RIP deal him a mental mind-screw (ala winding up homeless and brain-addled on the streets of Gotham)? And then, on top of the RIP story, he gets even more effed-up due to Final Crisis? Sounds terribly like overkill to me.

And does everyone else remember the rumor that came out before IC, that Batman was going to wind up crazy and locked up in Arkham Asylum? Sounds kinda similar to what might happen to him in RIP doesn't it? And Morrison already confirmed that the concept of killing Batman (and the rest of the Trinity) and having them "possessed" by the New Gods was a possiblility until Didio made him change gears. So it's not like these rumors we keep hearing on the net have no truth to them at all. Unless Morrison was mispeaking ala Senator Clinton, I would think that no idea gets thrown out completely, only to be recycled and used later when appropriate.

What does everyone else think?

I dunno, that seems awful confusing.

I think it would be a big sell-out if, in "Final Crisis", you have this big apocalyptic event, and it seems Earth is doomed, and the heroes can't overcome it, and evil wins... then it turns out this was all on an alternate Earth and the "real" Earth remains unchanged. That would be an "it was all a dream!" style cop-out.

Plus, like Corpulent1 was saying in the Final Crisis thread, I hate the idea of all post-Crisis (the original Crisis, I mean) continuity being wiped out to essentially restore the Silver Age. I know the DC Powers That Be grew up on Silver Age stuff, and like the idea of working it back in.... but I didn't grow up on Silver Age comics. Post-Crisis DC is what I know, what I love. Like someone else stated earlier, also in the Final Crisis thread, Post-Crisis DC has to be one of the best eras of comics, ever, with the amount of classic storylines stemming from it. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Sorry if I've missed the point of your post, all this Multiverse stuff confuses me sometimes...

 

[Paladin2769]

I realize it is rather confusing. It is just a theory but in light of other points mentioned in other forums, it does sound like it might just be true. I am 39 now and so I read DC before and after the first Crisis. I don't think I am in favor of a complete return to pre-Crisis timeline, but this New Earth has been getting darker and dirtier for several years now. Not in particular order but here's what has happened lately: Sue Dibny gets raped and murdered in Identity Crisis, also killed in that story: Tim Drake's dad (and Captain Boomerang too); Batman gets mindwiped and turns paranoid, creating battle plans to take out the JLA and creating a global satellite that will monitor Earth and keep track of metahuman activity (this leads to Max Lord taking over Brother One and creating OMACs, Max kills Blue Beetle, and Wonder Woman kills Max Lord; Superboy dies (probably more to do with the lawsuit but it happened nevertheless) along with the Freedom Fighters in Infinite Crisis; Jason Todd dies at the hands of the Joker, gets resurrected and comes back as a vigilante that has no qualms killing bad guys; the Spectre goes crazy and teams up with Eclipso and wreaks havoc on magic in the DCU, leading them into the next age of magic which is wild and anything goes (so to speak).

Basically, the DCU has been getting so grim and gritty, I don't think it can be saved. And by Grant's comments, it won't be saved when evil finally wins in Final Crisis. He also said that this would be the last Crisis. I doubt that DC would want to give up their buzzword (Crisis) but if the New Earth universe goes bye-bye, then technically, it would be the last crisis in that particular universe. And reading the solicits for DC Comics for the next couple months, it certainly seems like the books are not taking place in the same world since not every title is affected or dealing with the Final Crisis. Dc already had the Great Kamandi cataclysm happen but not in "our" earth, rather, in a different one. This supports the fact that they can publish lots of stories with very diverse plots and not be locked into one particular universe's continuity.

Sorry if I sound like a real nerd....

BTW, I plan to go to the NY con tomorrow and I will do my best to get some hints, clues or gossip on what the heck is happening in the DCU. I also will try to find out more about the Skrull invasion, but that's another story altogether.

 

[Sparta*]

It'd be messed up if Earth 1 gets destroyed or is an overrun wasteland, and everything we know ends up on Earth 2, kind of a reverse 80's crisis lol

 

[Keyser Soze]

It'd be messed up if Earth 1 gets destroyed or is an overrun wasteland, and everything we know ends up on Earth 2, kind of a reverse 80's crisis lol

Can you imagine it? Everything that has happened since "Crisis on Infinite Earths" has been retconned. Silver Age continuity restarts here. Enjoy!

And we thought "One More Day" was bad...

 

[mcallima]

It needs to be said: the Multiverse sucks.

 

[Karem-Knight]

I hope Dick takes up the mantle.

Tim is good where he is. He's in the Teen Titans and he has the mantle of Robin. Dick, like many old school teen titan characters, is in limbo...at this point, his solo book will never get a really high profile team, and the promise to make him more important has failed.

Dick is the only name, IMO, iconic enough to take up the mantle, and the one that makes most sense.

I´d disagree, I think Tim is the best to take up the mantle, I always liked the idea that Dick had really become his own man as Nightwing. In "Ties that bind" by Grant and O´Neil, Dick points out to Bruce a great quote:

"I´m not like you, I don´t want to be like you. But you gave me a home and a family, and for that Bruce, I thank you."

It kind of shows how Dick has grown up as a character, plus Tomasi is doing really good things in his current Nightwing run, so I think Dick sould be Nightwing and stay that way, Tim deserves the mantle more.

 

[David Rice]

And guess who's back during Batman R.I.P.....

Spoiler

And....

Spoiler

 

[FCEEVIPER]

I have a feeling this new RIP/Hush arch will not be better the the last Hush arch with Lee/Loeb.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

I have a feeling this new RIP/Hush arch will not be better the the last Hush arch with Lee/Loeb.

It's actually going to be two different stories. Hush is coming back in Detective, while RIP is going to be in Batman. I'm pretty sure that they're not going to cross over one another.

This is from a three-part feature on Morrison that was posted on comicbookresources.com recently:

Not included in Morrison’s plan is melding the title with Paul Dini’s Detective Comics in a similar fashion to that of Action Comics and Superman, both of which will crossover regularly beginning with James Robinson’s run in June.

“It’s fun for me to read Paul’s Batman which is quite different than mine,” said Morrison. “He does the done-in-one issues quite a lot, some really nice little mystery stories. And some great twists. And that brilliant Joker story. For me, it’s great the way it is and I would hate to have us merged together. I think for the fans, as well. It’s great to have ‘Batman,’ which is a great big, long Batman novel almost and then go over to Detective Comics and pick up short, snappy Batman stories that you can read every month. I think they work better like that and I wouldn’t want to get too involved in big crossovers.


​

 

[David Rice]

I have a feeling this new RIP/Hush arch will not be better the the last Hush arch with Lee/Loeb.

We'll see. Dini is really good.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I think New York Comic Con's Final Crisis panel has provided us with an answer on who the Big Bad is in "Batman R.I.P.":

Spoiler

Morrison talked about Batman: R.I.P., saying that it's the culmination of what he's been working on with the character, that it'll have "the scariest Joker you've ever seen" as depicted by Tony Daniel, and "if you miss this, you'll miss your chance to say goodbye.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

Just please answer on question, just in case I missed something:

Is Grant Morrison really killing the REAL Batman off?

 

[Nepenthes]

^ NO

I don't think that quite fom the Con neccersarily points to the villain being the Joker. I thought the Joker was just tied into the whole plot. Morrison said the villain was 'behind the cutains' of the prose issue o something or rather.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I just did a little research and found a leading theory on what the heck is going on with Batman/the DCU regarding RIP, Final Crisis, et al. It seems that Final Crisis is taking place on New Earth (the one we have been following/reading) while other DC stories like the current Action Comics (with Superman in the future with the LSU) and Batman RIP are on Earth-1. So that "a" Batman meets a horrible end in FC, but in RIP he is only going to be down on his luck for the remainder of the storyline (which may go into 2009).

Morrison has already been quoted at large saying how FC is like LOTR where Sauron takes over and the good guys lose. It would seem this is the apocalypse that ends the New Earth universe since evil wins and everyone is basically living in captivity (whoever is still alive and kicking, that is). Frankly, I was always disappointed with the characterization of Batman on this "New Earth" since he was so crazy and paranoid what with creating Brother Eye (which led to the OMACS and the rest of the IC storyline).

It also would explain why there is a seeming dichotomy between what Batman has gone through lately. In IC, he takes a year off to clear his mind and retrain Dick and Tim and then comes back to Gotham fresh as a daisy (so to speak). I don't think there has been any reference to IC in the RIP storyline which sounds a little odd, don't you think? And isn't it really redundant to have Batman go through the mental ringer after IC and return a little better (mentally) only to have RIP deal him a mental mind-screw (ala winding up homeless and brain-addled on the streets of Gotham)? And then, on top of the RIP story, he gets even more effed-up due to Final Crisis? Sounds terribly like overkill to me.

And does everyone else remember the rumor that came out before IC, that Batman was going to wind up crazy and locked up in Arkham Asylum? Sounds kinda similar to what might happen to him in RIP doesn't it? And Morrison already confirmed that the concept of killing Batman (and the rest of the Trinity) and having them "possessed" by the New Gods was a possiblility until Didio made him change gears. So it's not like these rumors we keep hearing on the net have no truth to them at all. Unless Morrison was mispeaking ala Senator Clinton, I would think that no idea gets thrown out completely, only to be recycled and used later when appropriate.

What does everyone else think?

I think having different earth's is confusing, and hurting DC's sales big time.

 

[Kraven]

I have a feeling this new RIP/Hush arch will not be better the the last Hush arch with Lee/Loeb.

With Dini though, it's sure to be entertaining... and it can't be worse than the Hush Returns arc, from what I've heard...

 

[David Rice]

With Dini though, it's sure to be entertaining... and it can't be worse than the Hush Returns arc, from what I've heard...

I agree and this time the arc is really called Hush Returns.

 

[donk70]

Here's a bit where Grant does an interview with Newsarama's Pulp Secret
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFgP8HzA9xo

 

[Orson_Randall]

I want to know what is going on, but to Kill Batman right before the movie comes out? does not seem smart, same reason I feel Iron Man is not a Skrull...

 

[AgentGraves!]

I think that this whole BATMAN R.I.P. Thing will tie up what we saw in Grant's first Batman in this run...

Where the Joker is hunched over a battered and beaten Batman and he's shouting "I Killed him, I Killed the bat!!!!"

That whole thing, I just reread it and to me it makes the most sense.

I am hungry, and I think I am now going to get some 'King!


vote obama!

 

[Orson_Randall]

I think that this whole BATMAN R.I.P. Thing will tie up what we saw in Grant's first Batman in this run...

Where the Joker is hunched over a battered and beaten Batman and he's shouting "I Killed him, I Killed the bat!!!!"

That whole thing, I just reread it and to me it makes the most sense.

I am hungry, and I think I am now going to get some 'King!


vote obama!

Spectacular spoilers, I think you got it!

Good job detective

 

[Joker]

I think that this whole BATMAN R.I.P. Thing will tie up what we saw in Grant's first Batman in this run...

Where the Joker is hunched over a battered and beaten Batman and he's shouting "I Killed him, I Killed the bat!!!!"

That whole thing, I just reread it and to me it makes the most sense.

I am hungry, and I think I am now going to get some 'King!


vote obama!

Uh...Joker was beating up the first of the 3 fake Batman there...I thought that was obvious.

 

[Orson_Randall]

Uh...Joker was beating up the first of the 3 fake Batman there...I thought that was obvious.

**LET DOWN**

 

[rpenguin]

I think having different earth's is confusing, and hurting DC's sales big time.

How so? The books containing multiple earths are all one shots or mini's. All the DCU proper books happen on one earth. Granted, some 'touch' on the multiverse, but it's hardly overwhelming.

The multiverse is like DC having 51 Ultimate Marvel universes.

 

[CrimsonDeath]

With Dini though, it's sure to be entertaining... and it can't be worse than the Hush Returns arc, from what I've heard...

It's not so much that it was bad, rather it was just meandering and became Hush's Gotham Knights title. Well, I guess that made it bad. No clear direction or plan with purpose of end perpetrated by Hush, and every other very capable and competent character was made to look really incompetent to make Hush look cool.
Dini just can't do worse than that.