Batman R.I.P.

[CaptainClown]

Then why are people complaining about the ending?

oh yeah...because they wanted batman to die in some spectacular death...so they can whine about that too.

if you just dont like the story, fine, but it seems like many fans hate it because of their nature to nitpick

they are complaining because that this whole story was holding out till the end and the ending was bad?

or cause they wanted a good ending? It seems that many fans hate it because it is all over the place for no reason and has them hating Batman more then they should.

 

[The Batman]

they are complaining because that this whole story was holding out till the end and the ending was bad?

or cause they wanted a good ending? It seems that many fans hate it because it is all over the place for no reason and has them hating Batman more then they should.

IMo, the ending wasnt bad because i didnt feel the need to have some big, shocking villain....the reveal of who hurt is helped to sum of the story as a whole...if people like things spelled out for them, fine, but its their loss though....

 

[C. W. Saturn]

Like someone said, Batman survives helicopter crashes for breakfast.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

So let me get this straight, the most shocking revelation in 70 years that Grant Morrison himself promised in RIP is that The Black Glove might be the Devil?

Not exactly. I assume the big revelation is the fact that Bruce/Batman alone wasn't responsible for the great crime reduction in Gotham city over the last 10-15 years or so. Apparently, "The Black Glove" organization was there from the beginning, using their influence to increase and decrease the levels of crime in Gotham, thereby, shattering Batman's place in history as the city's great savior. Sure, he helped stem the tide (obviously) to some degree, but Morrison is insinuating (I think) that Bats was, in a sense, being manipulated into doing exactly what the Black Glove wanted him to do all along; perhaps even having been stalked throughout his entire life. What is even more shocking is the notion that Thomas and Martha Wayne might have been members of The Black Glove and lost their lives as a result of that association. Now, you could still say the Waynes were good people and outstanding citizens, but on the same token, some fans might look upon this reveal as a taint on their squeaky clean image - even though the drug using, perversion allegations [against Thomas and Martha] were proven to be smear tactics.

Weird issue, in my opinion. So much to assume here, but little seemed to be particularly clear. Influences came from all over the place. Likewise, the Hurt character actually reminded me a lot of Nolan's version of Ras Al Ghul - there from the start, manipulating Gotham w/ his secret organization and agenda. Batman Begins, freemasonry, religious imagery, politics... it was all in there, even down to the switching of the poisoned cup move that we've all seen a trillion times at this point.

Hopefully, some of the loose ends get tied up a bit in Final Crisis, but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[The Sage]

Not exactly. I assume the big revelation is the fact that Bruce/Batman alone wasn't responsible for the great crime reduction in Gotham city over the last 10-15 years or so. Apparently, "The Black Glove" organization was there from the beginning, using their influence to increase and decrease the levels of crime in Gotham, thereby, shattering Batman's place in history as the city's great savior. Sure, he helped stem the tide (obviously) to some degree, but Morrison is insinuating (I think) that Bats was, in a sense, being manipulated into doing exactly what the Black Glove wanted him to do all along; perhaps even having been stalked throughout his entire life. What is even more shocking is the notion that Thomas and Martha Wayne might have been members of The Black Glove and lost their lives as a result of that association. Now, you could still say the Waynes were good people and outstanding citizens, but on the same token, some fans might look upon this reveal as a taint on their squeaky clean image - even though the drug using, perversion allegations [against Thomas and Martha] were proven to be smear tactics.

Weird issue, in my opinion. So much to assume here, but little seemed to be particularly clear. Influences came from all over the place. Likewise, the Hurt character actually reminded me a lot of Nolan's version of Ras Al Ghul - there from the start, manipulating Gotham w/ his secret organization and agenda. Batman Begins, freemasonry, religious imagery, politics... it was all in there, even down to the switching of the poisoned cup move that we've all seen a trillion times at this point.

Hopefully, some of the loose ends get tied up a bit in Final Crisis, but I won't be holding my breath.

That's a good point.

 

[Saint]

Something to consider: in New X-Men, Morrison did not reveal the real villain behind the run--Sublime, the sentient virus--until the epilogue, a story which took place in the future. The next two issues of Batman, the RIP epilogue, may be used to do the same. Incidentally, they also take place in the future.

 

[The Batman]

Alot of people are assuming that the black glove somehow always affected crime in gotham when its not the case. When morrisons run began, All crime in Gotham had dropped significantly. The Black Glove is probably referring to this. They didnt always directly affect crime in gotham

 

[itsthebatman]

Something to consider: in New X-Men, Morrison did not reveal the real villain behind the run--Sublime, the sentient virus--until the epilogue, a story which took place in the future. The next two issues of Batman, the RIP epilogue, may be used to do the same. Incidentally, they also take place in the future.

How would you rate the arc overall now that #681 has come out? What are the good and bad parts, in your opinion?

 

[CrimsonMist]

IMo, the ending wasnt bad because i didnt feel the need to have some big, shocking villain....the reveal of who hurt is helped to sum of the story as a whole...if people like things spelled out for them, fine, but its their loss though....

but this whole arc was built up to this last issue, and just from reading it, insinuated that something BIG was going to happen. And nothing did. It has nothing to do with hype. The story itself told the reader that something pretty big was going to happen, and it didn't. The whole arc ended on ambiguity.

It has nothing to do with having things spelled out for readers. It has to do with the fact that Morrison made a very large, confusing mess of a story and then just ended it by having Batman go "Nah, i just played along with your silly game", ::insert massive amounts of ambiguous answers to questions that actually do need solid answers::BIG EXPLOSION, The End.

But as i've said, the arc isn't really over yet, and there's more to fill in. And until that happens, i retain my opinion that this was probably the most anti-climatic ending that i've ever read.

 

[Saint]

How would you rate the arc overall now that #681 has come out? What are the good and bad parts, in your opinion?

Jezebel Jet would have been a mark against it, had it not turned out the way it did. I think the story--like all of Morrison's run--reads better as a whole than in installments. Morrison includes a lot of little details that are easy to forget in the months between issues. For example, until I re-read the entire run recently, I had completely forgotten about Mongrove Pierce and the Black Glove film.

The biggest problem with RIP was the way it was promoted. It was promoted as the end of Batman, when it reads as something dedicated to Batman. An homage. The last hurrah before the curtain call.

In terms of quality, my only real problem was Tony Daniel's layouts. I like his rendering for the most part, but his storytelling can become confusing, which is very bad in a Grant Morrison piece. Things that should not have been confusing were muddied by Daniel's art.

All things considered, though, I think RIP was great. Like I said, this seemed to be the ultimate homage to Batman: an entire arc dedicated to showing just how insurmountable he is. I'm one of those who has enjoyed Morrison's ideas about bringing Pre-Crisis stories back into continuity in different ways, so I enjoyed the inclusion of Bat-Mite, Zurr-En-Arrh, and Robin Dies at Dawn. Another virtue is that Morrison succeeded where Hush failed: he introduced a villain with ties to Batman's past and a mystery about him, but where Hush was a colossal failure (until Dini came along), Hurt is genuinely intriguing. I mean, the idea that he could even be the devil? Great stuff.

Coherence is usually a concern with Morrison, and if you asked me a few days ago I would have said coherence was a problem. After reading through the entire run, though, everything has become clear--except those things Morrison has left us in the dark about. The true identity of Hurt, of course. The other curiosity is the little green monster-thing that was always latched to Bat-mite's backside. What the hell was that?

Anyways, as a story and as a run, it's excellent. The real question is whether or not it properly serves to "end" Batman's career. A lot of complaints cite that this isn't a good "ending" for Batman. Of course, anyone who is honest can see that this is just a part of the story. What's really important is yet to come--and that is, where is Batman going and why isn't he going to be Batman any longer. RIP doesn't answer those questions, but I imagine it will be a part of those answers, which it appears we'll be getting next month.

Hurt said that the next time Batman put on the cowl, it would be his last. I'm betting on that being much more than an empty threat.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Alot of people are assuming that the black glove somehow always affected crime in gotham when its not the case. When morrisons run began, All crime in Gotham had dropped significantly. The Black Glove is probably referring to this. They didnt always directly affect crime in gotham

That's another way of looking at it and I'm inclined to agree with you here. Honestly, it's not a good thing when so many readers are struggling to comprehend what the hell happened. So I guess the big revelation is the possibillity that Martha and Thomas Wayne were members of the Black Glove. "Sadly anticlimactic" don't you think?

Thanks for clearing that up btw.

 

[The Batman]

That's another way of looking at it and I'm inclined to agree with you here. Honestly, it's not a good thing when so many readers are struggling to comprehend what the hell happened. So I guess the big revelation is the possibillity that Martha and Thomas Wayne were members of the Black Glove. "Sadly anticlimactic" don't you think?

Thanks for clearing that up btw.

I dont think they were members of the black glove...I truly think that the nature of the black glove and their relation to the waynes is open to interpretation. Me, I believe the black glove has something to do with the waynes in that the black glove merely represents evil as a whole, and in the end evil is the ultimate villain of batman

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

I dont think they were members of the black glove...I truly think that the nature of the black glove and their relation to the waynes is open to interpretation. Me, I believe the black glove has something to do with the waynes in that the black glove merely represents evil as a whole, and in the end evil is the ultimate villain of batman

This is actually my biggest problem with the storyline. Joker was awesome in the last issue (I'm pretending the tongue cut never happened) but basically while Hurt turned out to be ultimate evil he is still weak compared to Bats. There was not a single moment where Bats could totally fail. Now this concept could work brilliantly with a lesser foe, but here Batman is not just unbeatable, he's downright invincible, which makes Ultimate Evil a pretty simple fight and in doing so makes a fight with Batman's casual foe a walk in the park. I love the concept of Bats triumphing over ultimate evil, but this seemed too much like "lets praise Batman hour" by basically reducing Black Glove (and therefore every single other foe Bats has ever fought) to a non-threat.

Still, that grave shot was pretty cool, despite my dislike for Tony's art that was a great moment.

 

[CrimsonMist]

This is actually my biggest problem with the storyline. Joker was awesome in the last issue (I'm pretending the tongue cut never happened) but basically while Hurt turned out to be ultimate evil he is still weak compared to Bats. There was not a single moment where Bats could totally fail. Now this concept could work brilliantly with a lesser foe, but here Batman is not just unbeatable, he's downright invincible, which makes Ultimate Evil a pretty simple fight and in doing so makes a fight with Batman's casual foe a walk in the park. I love the concept of Bats triumphing over ultimate evil, but this seemed too much like "lets praise Batman hour" by basically reducing Black Glove (and therefore every single other foe Bats has ever fought) to a non-threat.

Still, that grave shot was pretty cool, despite my dislike for Tony's art that was a great moment.

i kind of agree. With the last 5 issues, you felt that The Black Glove was seriously screwing with Bruce, and then in the last issue Bruce goes "FOOLED YOU!" and it's revealed he's been in Bat God mode the entire time. It kinda takes away the impact, in retrospect.

One thing i don't get, and i may have missed this: How did Bruce get his mind back? When we last saw him, he was pure Batman. There was no Bruce in the equation at all. Then when he comes out of the coffin, he's Bruce Wayne Batman. I'm thinking it was the meditation he does in the coffin, but i'm not sure.

 

[Drz]

I think because of the knockdown/stun he received from the flowers his mind could get back to normal again and turn off the zur-er-arrh mode or something.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

Here you go fellas...

Batman not killed off in comic

NEW YORK, Nov. 27 (UPI) -- The executive editor of D.C. Comics says the Caped Crusader is not dead, despite the title of its latest issue, "Batman, R.I.P.: Conclusion."

"He's not dead, though he'll definitely be gone for a while," Dan DiDio told the New York Daily News. "Batman and (alter ego) Bruce Wayne have been here long before me and they'll be around long after me."

The Daily News pointed out this is not the first time a superhero has appeared to meet his end. D.C. Comics killed off Superman in 1992, but later brought him back. Marvel Comics whacked Captain America, who has yet to make a comeback.

"Fans have an unspoken understanding with the publisher," comic book Web site newsarama.com writer Matt Brady told the Daily News. "You can take (Batman) off the stage for a while, but you can't put him in the ground."

Is Batman Destined for Death?

By GEORGE GENE GUSTINES; Compiled by Dave Itzkoff
Published: November 26, 2008

When you title a Batman comic book storyline “R.I.P.,” it’s understandable if readers worry about the fate of that Gotham City hero. The story’s final chapter, in Batman No. 681, written by Grant Morrison and illustrated by Tony Daniel, arrived in stores Wednesday. It features a scene in which Batman is caught in a helicopter crash and only his cowl is recovered. But that’s all part of the plan by DC Comics, which has devised several months of stories without the caped crusader. “You realize in their absence how valuable the character is,” said Dan DiDio, DC’s senior vice president and executive editor. “Bruce Wayne will always be back as Batman someday.”

 

[Motown Marvel]

i really enjoyed this arc all the way through. loved the last issue. everything came together nicely. i would like to go back and read it again soon. i can agree with the person above who said batman being in secret bat-god mode the whole time does take away from the black gloves threat as a villain. it would have been pretty cool if there was at least one aspect of the story that batman failed at the end.

 

[AlteredEgo]

i really enjoyed this arc. but i have a question. what reason does bruce have to fake his death, or go in to hiding??

 

[Saint]

That's what we're all waiting to find out (assuming that's what's happened).

 

[Saint]

Here you go fellas...

This confirms all the things that nobody needed confirmed: he isn't dead and that nothing is permanent in comics. Not informative in any way, which is to be expected. This is what they'd say regardless of their plans.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

This confirms all the things that nobody needed confirmed: he isn't dead and that nothing is permanent in comics. Not informative in any way, which is to be expected. This is what they'd say regardless of their plans.

Woah, easy big fella don't take my head off.

 

[DARKxGOTHAMITE]

ugh...lol i dont feel satisfied or unsatisfied with this arc...it was ridiculous....ima have to wait for TBP to really dig EVERYTHING...since it was everywhere...

 

[Saint]

Woah, easy big fella don't take my head off.

Hm? My comments were directed at the article, not you.

 

[Dirt Like Me]

Another reasonfor the whining is that people cant seem to comprehend that this story is not about the death of batman, and people are getting disappointed because of it....the only problem with this arc is that it was overhyped, no doubt because didio wanted it that way

I don't think this is a fair criticism. The story is called Batman R.I.P., after all, and it was heavily hyped as such. Maybe that falls at DiDio's feet. I don't really know, and I don't think it matters who is at fault.

But I realize that perhaps some my problems with the conclusion do stem from the hype of the story, as opposed to the story itself. In interviews Morrison talked about an ending we wouldn't see coming and Bruce suffering a fate worse than death. Unless he's saying that the lack of a reveal is something we wouldn't see coming and being missing is being worse than death, then neither of these things happened. (Which makes me wonder if Morrison wanted Dr. Hurt to be Thomas Wayne the whole time and somebody up the food chain nixed the idea. Just a thought). Whatever the case, the story has been brewing for two years and readers had become invested in it. The hype piled on top of that, plus the superlatives that Morrision and others have thrown around, helped created some expectations that (I feel) weren't exactly met.

But, at the end of the day, if that is how Bruce Wayne goes out, then--villain identity aside--I can't really complain. He was bad-ass to the end, fearless, incorruptable, and one step ahead of the bad guys the whole time--basically everything I look for from Batman. [BLACKOUT]If the image of Bruce, cowl off, on the front of the helicopter, ready to throw a punch is the last time we see him for a while then I'm okay with that.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[The Sage]

I can't wait for this trade.