Batman R.I.P.

[knifeedgedave]

I have a Batman story to tell, that involves the end of Batman without delving into ambiguity or Crisis or deus ex machinas or such. But Im not with DC- could I still write it do you think?

 

[CaptainClown]

you could write it and read it to your kids maybe even your friends.

 

[CrimsonMist]

so this issue was actually pretty good. Alittle jumpy at times, but good. Part 2 should wrap it pretty well. But i loved the idea of Joker's super-sanity. The only thing i didn't get was:

Spoiler

the scene when Alfred tells Bruce he wrote a story about a Gotham without a Batman, which he developed when he came back from the dead. And Bruce then says that Alfred isn't the real Alfred and that he knows who he really is.

What is this? Is this Bruce knowing that the Lump is inside of his head? And from whose perspective is this story being told? Is Alfred really dead? and from every page after the funeral scene just the Lump screwing with Batman? I dont get that part

any explanations on that would be cool. But it's a pretty good story regardless.

 

[Drz]

Spoiler

The Alfred dying might be false advertising, i mean saying "hey this issue has Batman's past thru an evil machine" wouldn't be that good. :P Also yes Bruce realizes that Alfred isn't truly Alfred and that something/someone is attacking him, but Simyan and the other guy already make the alternative reality happen and then they discuss how truly amazing specimen Batman is.

 

[Evil Twin]

so this issue was actually pretty good. Alittle jumpy at times, but good. Part 2 should wrap it pretty well. But i loved the idea of Joker's super-sanity. The only thing i didn't get was:

Spoiler

the scene when Alfred tells Bruce he wrote a story about a Gotham without a Batman, which he developed when he came back from the dead. And Bruce then says that Alfred isn't the real Alfred and that he knows who he really is.

What is this? Is this Bruce knowing that the Lump is inside of his head? And from whose perspective is this story being told? Is Alfred really dead? and from every page after the funeral scene just the Lump screwing with Batman? I dont get that part

any explanations on that would be cool. But it's a pretty good story regardless.

Regarding the clues that Batman picks up on.

Spoiler

Alfred, as established post-The Outsider in the Silver Age comics, has no memory of his death and resurrection. He's amnesiatic about that whole period, which makes it easier to ignore it.

I was intrigued to find out that The Lump is a Kirby creation, featured in Mister Miracle #8. Presented pretty accurately here, he imprisons you in the seemingly inescapable mindscape he constructs. Of course, Mister Miracle escapes. And Batman will too.

 

[Drz]

Would someone please explain the batwoman part tho? What happened to her and Batgirl that was mentioned.

 

[CrimsonMist]

i think, and this is based on the few silver age Batwoman appearances that i've read, but Robin is suspicious of Batwoman because he thinks she'll compromise Batman's secret identity.

I don't really understand that part either. I believe the original Batgirl was retconned. And Batwoman was just recently revamped(i think. because the original Kathy Kane is killed by The League of Assassins). So this might be Morrison throwing everything back into canon, or The Lump screwing with Batman.

 

[Evil Twin]

What's to understand about the Batwoman part? She existed and ends up treating Batman like a fling, breaking his heart. In contrast to how Bruce treated Julie Madison.

Morrison's conceit for his run is that everything happened, albeit not exactly the same way it was depicted at the time. Hallucinations, gas attacks, dreams, etc. being some of the things that Batman was subjected to, to explain the wilder stories.

 

[Drz]

The Batwoman thing is confusing because of the weird ass plant and their seeming death. >_> So yeah, im still abit confused with the plant thing lol.

 

[Evil Twin]

The Batwoman thing is confusing because of the weird ass plant and their seeming death. >_> So yeah, im still abit confused with the plant thing lol.

It's a reference to Batman #153. A strange adventure where Batman and Batwoman professed their love for each other. Just a little bit before she disappeared from Batman's world.

 

[Saint]

Robin's comment that he was a circus kid, and hence "knew about" her suggests she was some type of seedy character, and he recognized the type.

 

[Drz]

Thank you kind gentlemen! But yeah, the dark empire is Darkseid's army right? Been reading about him from wikipedia, hes quite interesting but he could look more evil. :P I mean i guess hes evil alien enough instead of how i see things usuually as fantasy-alike evil beings.

 

[Spade]

"The Butler Did It" left a lot of unanswered questions, but then again this is about the world's greatest detective. I liked it overall. My only issue is that I'm not up to speed on Batman's 50's and 60's adventures, so characters like the first Batwoman and the Lump (who I thought was Clayface based off of what I know from the Animated Series) came out of nowhere when I was reading it.

EDIT: No, really...the Lump? Appropriate name, given that he just sits and sifts through dreams, but I didn't know that sloth could pass as a superpower.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

My theory is that Batwoman is actually a fictional construct either in Batman's mind or from The Lump. It would make sense further to protect Batman against a psychological attack to have not only made a backup personality but also false memories and scenarios so that anyone sifting through them would not be able to separate fiction from reality, making their attempts useless.

Or The Lump could be creating all this in an attempt to break Batman further as Darkseid's followers continue to say.

 

[Evil_Meanie]

I have to be honest, I recently re-read the entire RIP arc in one sitting, and I thought it was great. Whether or not Bruce ends up behind the cowl when it's all said and done (which I personally think he will), this entire run has been a (very strange) love letter to Batman. Morrison set him up against insurmountable odds, and managed to convince pretty much everyone that Bruce was beaten, only to have him come back and clean house at the end. Dr. Hurt even attempted to take away Bruce's reason for being Batman by claiming to be his father, but Bruce doesn't even flinch. It's great stuff....probably the most satisfying Batman tale in awhile, I was terribly wrong to condemn it.

I don't see how it isn't going to turn out to somehow be connected to Darkseid in the end, though. I mean, why else would Bruce's fate be revealed in Final Crisis? Wouldn't it be sort of distracting for FC6 to say, "alright, in this issue we're going to explain that whole Batman R.I.P. thing," and then not connect it to Darkseid, since he's the main villain in FC?

 

[kguillou]

What i wanna know is, in part 5 it looked like Bruce's identity was pretty much outta the bag, even the joker discovered it. Is this going to be picked up on? Will Joker remember everything?

 

[Saint]

Why wouldn't he? It doesn't matter, though, because the Joker doesn't care who Batman is.

 

[Cain]

Well we don't know the real specific of post-IC continuity for Batman. Just that as stated a lot of stories from his pre-COIE history have been incorporated into but not neccessarily as originally presented. For all we know that Batwoman that debuted in 52 could very well be the one we saw in the flashback here since we were told she does have a past with Batman which was never elaborated on. Sidenote I'm also starting to think the "Hurt = Desaad" camp wasn't very far off after all either.

 

[Evil_Meanie]

I'm also starting to think the "Hurt = Desaad" camp wasn't very far off after all either.

I saw something on the DC Boards saying that apparently Hurt being Desaad would contradict some other book featuring Desaad that is part of Final Crisis. There's a guy there (the DC boards, that is) that is a pretty big subscriber to the "Hurt=Satan" theory, and pretty such shuts down any theories on Darkseid being involved.

I assume he's checking his facts, I'm not reading Final Crisis yet, so I wouldn't know.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Look at the cover to Detective Comics 851: http://www.dccomics.com/dcu/comics/?cm=10681

Not much of a surprise really . He's been the obvious choice from the get-go, I still think this pointless to begin with . Bruce will return at some point and reclaim his mantel .

 

[Cain]

I saw something on the DC Boards saying that apparently Hurt being Desaad would contradict some other book featuring Desaad that is part of Final Crisis. There's a guy there (the DC boards, that is) that is a pretty big subscriber to the "Hurt=Satan" theory, and pretty such shuts down any theories on Darkseid being involved.

I assume he's checking his facts, I'm not reading Final Crisis yet, so I wouldn't know.

Well Desaad hasn't actually appeared in Final Crisis at all yet and FC also takes place after R.I.P

Desaad has used human vessels to do Darkseid's bidding before. We also know that Darkseid has always underestimated Batman time and time again because he is human including in a story written by Grant Morisson. Maybe this time as he fell from the heavens he didn't want to make that mistake and wanted to break the Batman somehow so that he won't get in Darkseid's way. I don't know there are some possibilities there though and the way Morisson links up all his stories I wouldn't be exactly shocked.

 

[stillanerd]

I think I've figured out what Morrison meant when he said Batman would meet a fate worse than death, and I'm not sure if this theory has been propositioned. In issue #682, we have the Lump probing Batman's mind in order to create an army of Batmen for Darkseid, right? Well, my guess is that next issue, as was hinted in this one, Bruce figures out what is happening to him and, having prepared himself in the past what to do if he was ever psychically attacked, such as if the Martian Manhunter went rogue, he makes a mental image that creates a feedback loop and takes out the Lump.

However, by doing so, Batman becomes a vegetable.

Think about it. He wouldn't be able to walk, dress, bathe, or do anything without assistance. He wouldn't be able to speak, or write, or communicate in any way. He would see and hear and feel but be unable to respond. He would be alive, he would act alive. Just a mind trapped within his own body, unable to break free. In that sense, he makes a heroic sacrifice, doesn't actually die, allows a logical reason for why there needs to be a replacement, and also allows for the possibility for him to recover and come back some time in the future.

Also, I think most people believe that Dick Grayson is very likely going to be the "new Batman," but what if he is not Bruce's choice of a successor? What if it turns out that, according to Bruce's will or if anything should happen to him that makes it so he's no longer able to be Batman, it's Tim Drake who is supposed to take over, that he has the will, the determination, and the intelligence to do the job, and merely wanted Dick as a mentoring role. Dick, believing that Tim is too young to take on the responsibility of being Batman, decides he has no choice but to be Batman himself, much to the chagin of Tim, who would think that he's overstepping his bounds and, in protest, quits as Robin and adopts the Red Robin identity. This, in turn, forces Dick to select Damien as the new Robin. Also, Alfred is gone, chosing to take care of Bruce while he's in his catatonic state, which makes Dick turn to Oracle to act as a liason/operator. What do you think?

 

[Miss Webb]

I'm not a member of the Morrison church per se, where everything he does is automatically "brilliant". However, RIP was mildly entertaining for certain parts. Despite the fact it tried to be needlessly complex and yes, had more overexposure on the overrated and overhyped joker. But there's one aspect of the storyline that kind of bugs me, and it involves the "end".


Okay, we know there's the dangling thread about Jet's presumed fate. Bruce is keeping the letter for a reason. Now we know he played her since she played him. But it's clear both of them fell victim to their feelings. Initally a game, then serious. And now both are mysteriously "gone" or presumed dead. The intensity and speed of their romance concerned the batfamily with good reason. Now that we know Bruce was falling for her and 'caught' himself, what will he do? He always goes for messed up women (although I don't recall Jet showing any 'darkness' early in the arc. Seems awfully convenient to tack on later). Why? Because that same darkness is in him (that Jet recognized early on). And what's Jet's story? What was her motivation to do all this in the first place? Bribery? Pressure? Threats? Just to have fun? Too many loopholes and questions. I get the impression she fell for Bruce also. You don't swear to destroy your country over someone you have no feelings for. Gotta love those angry, wild women! And something in her past is seriously messed up. I have a feeling more details are out there which might explain better what makes her tick.

Although you had to wonder how Jet would handle her past, considering what happened. Bruce went through a lot as a child, but her situation almost makes his look like a cakewalk. And don't expect him to just turn off his feelings, either. Not realistic.

BTW, black women are not evil incarnate, tempting serpents. I won't even go into the Jezebel symbology. Everything black isn't bad, contrary to popular belief. Dum da dum dum.

Don't be shocked if they show up on a beach somewhere trying to 'relearn' each other. That would have M-O-R-R-I-S-O-N written all over it. Knowing Bruce's history, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities for him to still pursue her. In a way, Jet's as much a victim of circumstance as he was. But how they lived their lives and the choices they made were different.

Did the Glove once do an elaborate scheme on Jet the same way, thus breaking her? Before she joined? Remember the pattern, Hurt wanted a broken Bruce to join. I think whatever happened to her mother made her snap.

 

[Dark Victory]

I just picked up #682 and I've never been more lost in my life.

Spoiler

What was with Bruce at the end? After the helicopter crash, was Bruce captured?

Please help.

 

[CrimsonMist]

I just picked up #682 and I've never been more lost in my life.

Spoiler

What was with Bruce at the end? After the helicopter crash, was Bruce captured?

Please help.

he gets captured by bad guys in Final Crisis #2. This is the Final Crisis tie-in story. I'd say just go and buy #2 and you'll be set. Then Final Crisis #6 will conclude it, i think.