BATMAN: Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

Zev said:
The Bat-Infiniti thing seems to come close to originitis. You know, when you go to see a movie about, say, Daredevil, and then the story is all about him becoming Daredevil (yeah, right) and you're like "What is this ****? I paid to see Daredevil, not Matt Murdock Makes Googly Eyes At Jennifer Garner For Two Hours And Then Becomes Daredevil In The Last Five Minutes Of The Movie. Look, I don't care about the origin, okay? Darth Vader showed up in Star Wars with no preamble and it worked better than when we knew he used to be a whiny kid and a whiny teenager and a whiny brat in general. Just show me Dr. Doom as emperor of Latveria, the rest isn't important.

So, I kinda want the real Batmobile in the first movie. If you can't deliver on that, give me the real Bat-Cycle or whatever.
:mad:

Well, then. Is that how it is?


It fits with the story as long as the scene of 14 year-old Bruce Wayne driving fast cars, motorcycles and actually enjoying himself like a normal kid for once in 6 years stays in the movie as well as the spin-off TV miniseries/TV movie about his full origin. I want to keep most of the childhood scenes as well as that one, and the hardcore training would be shown only in the miniseries/TV movie.

As for the Bat-Cycle, yes, he'll have one. Since his car gets partially self-destructed and impounded during the police battle royale, he'll need something to get him to the water treatment station and/or wherever his showdown with the Scarecrow will be. He'll have a suped-up, top of the line motorcycle that goes as fast as any bike out there, with reinforced titanium framing, ceramic armor shelling around the engine, jelly-filled self-sealing, puncture-resistant tires, Lexar bulletproof windscreen, integral GPS system and RADAR, and has a couple of tricks up its sleeves (probably similar to the car's abilities). And of course, a helmet with bat ears. No arguments about that, Zev. You want a real Bat-Cycle, you get the real Bat-Helmet.

As for how it would look, do you mean something like this:

b4986main


I could deal with something like that, dressed down just a tad, and without that rocket/harpoon thing up top. And full black, not just dark blue. With the bulletproof windscreen. This one doesn't seem to have a windscreen at all.

EDIT: Maybe something like this one, actually:

US77404.jpg

Again, in would would be black, not blue, and the windscreen would be big enough to duck one's head behind.

:wolverine
 
From BOF:

Got this in a few days ago, and after verifying this insider does what he says he does, I decided to post it for all you BOF‘ers --


“Greetings BOF! Love the site!

I thought this bit of news may be of interest to you and your readers. I work in the UK...and would be considered as being part of the ‘crew' [on a film]. What I’ve heard rumoured is that the new Batman costume may be altered a bit. The appearance will not change dramatically, but will be lighter and sleeker than the one in ‘Batman Begins.’
It may also be constructed to look more like heavyweight fabric and armour than rubber. I shall let you know if I hear more.

If you use this, call me '007.'”


Hmm. Interesting. While I loved the BEGINS costume, I could go for a few sublte changes...


UPDATED:
“007” sent this in today and I thought I’d post it for ya’ll--

“Just a few addition notes regarding the information I sent you about ‘TDK’ costume -- which you were kind enough to publish. There is nothing I’ve heard that suggests it will not be all-black [GOOD! -- Jett].


From what’s been whispered, it seems that the suit will be approved upon for Mr. Bale to use doing shooting. These improvements should mirror the tweaks that Bruce Wayne would make in the suit as his career progresses.

Cheers!”


From what this source has indicated, the suit will look basically the same, but will be improved upon technology-wise...

I ain't raisin' hopes, but for them that do that sort o' thing, there might be some hope worth raising.

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
manipeh6.jpg



Two words:

Hell. Yes.


:wolverine

Just make the grey a bit darker and take those goddamn panties off of him and that would be close to perfect. :):up:
 
MaskedManJRK said:
Just make the grey a bit darker and take those goddamn panties off of him and that would be close to perfect. :):up:
We don't call parts of classic superhero costumes "panties" in this thread. Period. We also don't argue against using faithful costumes in this thread. Read the rules, please.

I've already written extensively on why the Batman requires a rapelling harness to plausibly do what he does. A harness built into shorts is actually more practical for a man who needs to get in and out of costume in a hurry, so there's no reason why he shouldn't have a custom, Kevlar harness that protects his hip bones, genitals and works as a harness that attaches to his utility belt with keepers (the same way a cop's utility belt attaches to his trouser belt). In fact, this should have been introduced in the comics years ago, since every other piece of the costume has practical uses to go along with the stylization, except the shorts.

The gray doesn't necessarily need to be darker. It does need to be non-reflective in order to be faithful, however. If anything stands out in the dark in real life, it's the black, not the gray (this argument has been backed up earlier in the thread already, relating to urban camoflage), but no true fan would ever make the Batman's cape gray, because that's not accurate. The Batman's costume is deliberately designed to be non-reflective, which is why shiny rubber is a bad choice.

:wolverine
 
Cullen said:
Two words: Damn straight Hell yes.

...

Um... That didn't come out right...

Those were the other two words I was considering. ;)

:wolverine
 
Re: The above Cobblepot pic. --
First off - nice pic, Cobblepot.
Secondly, I find it amazing that the first response to a pic like this that shows how great a comics faithful costume could be, for a number of posters (thankfully few), is "Get rid of the undies." Sigh.
 
Bathead said:
Re: The above Cobblepot pic. --
First off - nice pic, Cobblepot.
Secondly, I find it amazing that the first response to a pic like this that shows how great a comics faithful costume could be, for a number of posters (thankfully few), is "Get rid of the undies." Sigh.

Amazing and disturbing. I'm actually going to make an official change to the rules and add that word to the forbidden list.

Even if there wasn't a brilliant (because, again, I thought of it :)) way to justify keeping shorts on the Batman, there's no reason to be disrespectful of the original costume.

Good to hear from you, Bathead. It's been a while. :up:

:wolverine
 
Just tightening up some dialogue I posted much earlier that will feature in Zaphod's and my 'Batman: Year One' script. It's basically taken right from an early draft of Sam Hamm's script from Tim Burton's 'BATMAN' in the opening scene, but modified just slightly by me. This is a minor revision from what it was:



BATMAN: It's after dark, dirtbag. You're trespassing.

THUG: Trespassing?? You don't own the night!

BATMAN: Listen up... and spread the word-- I am the night.

I think this works even better in context than "I'm Batman." Don't get me wrong, I love that scene from 'BATMAN' to death, but Michael Keaton could have done the other version just as well.

:wolverine
 
Okay, so several of you have read about my Batman video game concept, 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective.' I've also thought of using the same aspects from that concept in a series of games that accompany the movies Zaphod and I are dreaming up. Which do you think is a better focus? In either version, most things would be the same in terms of format, and the rating system would be the same (Dark, Knight, and Detective ratings).

In 'B: DKD', two of the things you have to do are to make several street contacts and create at least one or two alter egos for undercover work. The rationale for this is that a criminal mastermind has literally killed off your entire network of street contacts and "outed" or otherwise seriously incriminated all of your usual undercover identities to the police and underworld alike. In a video game for our movie 'Batman: Year One,' you would do the exact same thing, but it's the first time the character has done it. You'd have to read some material in the Batman's files and criminology notes to give clues and cues on how to convince and reason with a self-serving criminal, rather than merely scare them for what might be unreliable information. These files are not in the actual, full-blown Batcomputer, yet, since that isn't available until the second movie and game. For now, you're working with the basics of a detective... well, that and a $hit-load of advanced tactical and stealth skills.

Most of the interrogations of two-bit crooks you perform will render information, but you may never find that person again, or they may not be privy to any new information afterwards because they can't be trusted. A street contact, however, is a low-level crook (stick-up man, wheel man, hired racket enforcer, street soldier, possibly a drug dealer, etc., but very rarely hardened murderers... the less violent, the more than Batman can stomach him) who gives you information more than once and willingly (mostly) and is either paid for it or allowed to stay on the streets, depending on how much solid evidence you have on him that could keep him locked up. You will have to watch various criminals closely from the shadows, often using your long-range microphone and binoculars, analyzing their behavior and deciding which one will best be amenable and trustworthy as a snitch. Leaving the subtitles on in your game options will help you as a a player keep track of different people by matching their voice to what they said when they were farther away or out of sight. I'd probably make it a point to have these gangsters make obvious physical gestures while talking, to help you identify who's talking by sight as well.
The street contact, if successfully "flipped," will refrain from certain activities (killing, committing crimes they aren't ordered to by a higher-up, and absolutely no dealing drugs or guns to minors). There's a good bit of psychology built into this, a lot of which I don't even know, but if you want a fully immersive and interactive Batman experience, this is one thing that's a must.

The alter ego thing is also complicated in that you will need to read some of the Batman's criminology notes (nothing too tedious) on which mannerisms to use and things to say while in view of real criminals and cops (which are mostly criminals, too).


In this game, there won't be tracing devices or audio bugs. You will have the long-range microphones in the headgear, nightvision and binoculars, etc., but you'd be using fewer and less sophisticated techonological items. The costume's pretty much the same either way, but there's no Batcomputer (which doesn't mean you don't have a computer, it just means it does less stuff), no robot Batmobile (it won't drive itself), or miniature crime computer for crime scenes (but you'll have a full kit for collecting evidence). You'll have to analyze most of the evidence you collect at crime scenes in the Batcave.

This game will not have the Joker or most of the villains that will appear as primary villains in future movies. It will, however, have real, full-length missions that tie into your training, all occurring in the places Bruce Wayne was from age 14 to age 26. This is his origin. While Zaphod and I are keeping the years abroad in a seperate miniseries instead of in the movie 'Batman: Year One,' it would all go together in the viseo game. The majority of the game occurs in the freeroaming Gotham City. The major focus of the game is detective work, more than anything else, but there's plenty of action to go along with that. Again, you have no electronic tracers or bugs to use, yet, so that's why it's so important that you develop your detective skills and your information network (street contacts).

In future movie games, there's bigger-scale villains and plots going on, and the workload will be somewhat reduced by you not having to create street contacts and alternate identities from scratch, and also using electronic tracers and listening devices. The game will probably involve more driving and/or more running, since you can't leave the car in an alley, travel several blocks and then have it come to you if you don't want to go back for the car. Hopefully that won't be a big problem. Also, you'll have more advanced crime lab gear and more advanced field gear, so some of the minigames will take less time or be eliminated completely.

This concept allows the player to be the Batman from the very beginning and do everything he's done without contrived excuses for why he has to do them all over again. It also allows for more depth and content, since it's several games, and it can also include classic stories from the comics!

I'm also considering giving the option of playing James Gordon in some places.

What do you think of all that?

:wolverine
 
In case anyone wanted to read the previous posts on the subject of 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective':

Herr Logan said:
This is a list of links to posts in the original thread regarding my Batman video game idea. I'll be continuing brainstorming on this subject as well as movie ideas. Input is welcome.

‘Batman: Dark Knight Detective’

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6957244&postcount=442

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6957252&postcount=443

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6997894&postcount=454

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7111600&postcount=458

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7111608&postcount=459

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7141631&postcount=467

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7152649&postcount=473

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7152672&postcount=474

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...83#post7667483


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...60#post7668160


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...53#post7668253



http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...40#post7669440


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...65#post7669765


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...89#post7851589


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...18#post7924218


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...17#post7924417


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...00#post7924700


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...37#post7925037


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...69#post7925269


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...42#post7925942


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...90#post7925990


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...05#post7926705


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...51#post7927251


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...35#post7927835


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...23#post7928023


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...88#post7928388


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...92#post7928792


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...31#post7929931


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...22#post7930322

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...17#post7935017


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...21#post7936021


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...34#post7937034


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...51#post7937351


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...69#post7940669


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...20#post7943820


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...45#post7945345


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...01#post7947501


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...16#post7948316


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...40#post7948740


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...53#post7949953


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...81#post7950581


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...76#post7950876


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...81#post7959181


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...86#post7960086


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...22#post7960522


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...95#post7966695


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...17#post7978517


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...68#post7981968


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...35#post7982435


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...17#post7987317


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...23#post7987923


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...80#post7988580


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...09#post7988609


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...57#post7988857


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...15#post7988915


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...64#post7988964


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...63#post7989163


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...46#post7990746


http://www.superherohype.com/forums/...50#post7991450

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8005846&postcount=853

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8015198&postcount=876

http://www.superherohype.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8043153&postcount=884
For any posts in this thread on the subject, I suggest simply going to each page (I think we're only at 10) and use the search function on your web browser, plugging in the words "video game." That should do it.

:wolverine


Here is the latest revision of the rating system for 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective,' for those that haven't seen it already.

RATING SYSTEM:

· DARK:

o Stealth— Avoiding detection in infiltration and search operations, ability to observe without being seen; ratio of time unseen by police and civilians to total time in costume, barring all necessary appearances.

o Theatricality— Timing, style of entrances and exits; successful fear tactics; movement style.

o Identity Security— Ability to keep secret identity by maintaining distinct behavior in each persona, elude/fool police looking to question Bruce Wayne.

· KNIGHT:

o Rescues and Saves— Ratio of known individuals endangered to individuals saved or protected by the Batman; excessive or deadly force counts against score or ends game.

o Combat Ability— Ratio of strikes thrown to strikes connected; mastery of physical combat; style and variation; mastery of gadgetry; Average duration of battle from first strike to submission/defeat of opponent.

o Resourcefulness— Creativity in escaping danger, attack or captivity; narrow escapes from danger not created by own mistakes; escape efficiency; ratio of injuries avoided to injuries suffered.

· DETECTIVE:

o Thoroughness— Ratio of cases closed to cases pursued; ratio of clues and evidence gathered to clues and evidence available; ratio of suspects caught and verified or discounted to total suspects; ratio of cases pursued to total cases.

o Efficiency— Average duration of investigation from first awareness to close.

o People Skills— interrogation success rate, style and variability; mastery of disguise and pretense; profiling and personality estimation, psychological manipulation; ability to maintain alliances while still keeping mystery and distance from allies.



REWARDS:

· DARK: More fearsome reputation brings stronger fear stimulus in enemies, decreasing their effectiveness; alternate costumes, Comic book covers, artwork; special FMVs (classic moments from Bat-canon, memories associated with artifacts in the Batman’s/Bruce’s residences).

· KNIGHT: Special weapons and field gadgets; tougher armor; gliding cape; extra Batmobile functions.

· DETECTIVE: Upgraded, more efficient, more automated crime scene investigation and forensics equipment for utility belt and in the Cave.



As I said, the rating system will stay the same for the movie game series (which is now my priority, game-wise), but I may have to rethink the rewards, since the classic story FMVs would now be part of gameplay, and the degree of advancement in the Batman's technology would have to be scaled back depending on which movie game it would be.

:wolverine
 
Just saw these new manips by our friend Lujho in the New look for Bats thread:

Batmancowl3.jpg

Batmancowl3a.jpg

EvilCowl5.jpg



I'm guessing that last one was something he or someone else was constructing and the nose or mask opening line was altered by him in the photo or it simply matched what he's been altering in other photos. Good going Lujho! :up:

:wolverine
 
Don't feel so bad, Logan my friend. I'm with ya! Been mostly quiet as I'm afraid I might go postal responding to a certain poster who shows an utter lack of comics and comics fans. I think you know who I mean. (No names please! To name the Devil is to summon him!)
 
Bathead said:
Don't feel so bad, Logan my friend. I'm with ya! Been mostly quiet as I'm afraid I might go postal responding to a certain poster who shows an utter lack of comics and comics fans. I think you know who I mean. (No names please! To name the Devil is to summon him!)
Hell, they shut down E-Mack's thread yesterday, therefore cutting off one forum for discussion about this, so rant away, Bathead.

Just use some form of "he who must not be named" or just generalized descriptions in place of a name. If you just describe people by describing their actions, I don't see what's wrong with it. The demon you fear isn't allowed to spread his venom in this sacred place, and if he does, I'll report him. I do ask that you keep the descriptions of certain people somewhat mild, just because I don't want us to be too disrespectful.

Seriously, at this point, I'm okay with some discussion (or ranting) of this Us vs. Them crap going on in here. If people on the other side of the issue want to talk about us in their own guarded threads, let 'em. Rant away.

Oh, and thanks, man. :up:

:wolverine


EDIT: Oh, and in case anyone was thinking of arguing for the other side, FORGET IT! Again, feel free to bash people like us in your own threads, but the Safe Havens are open to pro-source material views only. This issue isn't up for debate here. Either you're for faithfulness as well as general high quality, or you don't belong here.
 
I'll get the ranting started.

I wish I could say that I don't understand why the anti-source material people, and specifically people who haven't read enough comics to understand the characters, seem to think they have a valid argument against making a faithful Batman movie. Everyone wants to think they know more than they do.

I've also said many times, and this was pretty much confirmed in E-Mack's now non-existent thread, that one big reason people keep insisting on pushing this fake "realism" as far as it will go is because they're ashamed of liking superheroes and can't face their friends if they praise or even see a movie about a grim vigilante fighting crime in tights. That's just pathetic, and I'm pretty understanding of people's fear of embarrassment, being a social phobic myself. It's no excuse for disrespecting the source material as fervently as they do. I'm not even talking about youknowwho, or even anyone who uses harsh language. I'm talking about even just people who merely say "that would be cheesy" or "the director is going for realism." It's all bull$hit.

People need to understand that there's a certain level of cheesiness in any superhero. I mean ANY. The Batman putting on a rubber costume does not even reduce his cheese factor, much less get rid of it. Either you're a fan of the genre, or you're not. I, personally, have grown way past the point of agreeing or even accepting the idea that you shouldn't kill an evil person who you know for sure has and will hurt people. Nonetheless, I wouldn't tolerate the Batman killing anyone, and I enjoy seeing him choose the "better way" to try and solve a problem. That's an example of suspending one's own preferences in order to enjoy a story. I don't demand that anyone in particular prefer Batman the way he is, but you either accept it or you should shut up and find a more "realistic" and less "cheesy" franchise to get excited about. It is what it is.

I seriously would have so much respect for a film crew that made a comic book adaptation movie that truly channeled the source material. Yes, there are a lot of choices to make and discretion to use with regard to the story, since it has to be a condensed, movie-length product. You can't use all of continuity, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use all of the mainstay features of the main characters. The only things that truly can't be included in a movie are events, not features. That doesn't mean you can't make little changes here and there, but these people we've been arguing with don't understand what a "little change" is. A little change is the Riddler wearing purple sunglasses instead of a purple domino mask. Changing the Batsuit from a sleek, mobile bodysuit to a bulky, puffy-looking rubber costume is not a small change. It may be difficult to properly translate such rich and broad material into a movie, but then again, making movies is difficult. You're either up to the challenge or you shouldn't be hired.

It's just like you summed up in my sig quote, Bathead. That's exactly the point people should understand.

Rant over... for now.

:wolverine
 
There is realism and then there is realism. In works of fantasy (which, like it or not, most superhero books are), realism is like adding salt to a broth. A bit enriches the flavor; too much and the whole thing is spoiled.
 
Cullen said:
There is realism and then there is realism. In works of fantasy (which, like it or not, most superhero books are), realism is like adding salt to a broth. A bit enriches the flavor; too much and the whole thing is spoiled.

Thank you, Cullen. That's a great way of putting it.

I'll admit, a lot of the alterations I've put in my movie ideas are for the sake of realism. Some are indeed for the sake of what looks better on the screen (I'm thinking mainly about Wolverine's original costume and changing it from yellow and blue to orange and black). I do not consider my changes to be excessively different from the source material, but you know I'll listen if someone thinks they are.
The times when I've cut certain characters or ruled them out (Shi'ar Imperial Guard, Clayface and Manbat, etc.) has never been for the sake of realism, however. That's just for convenience and for prioritization.

I do believe that a certain amount of realism added makes for a better movie, but that should never be the priority, and it doesn't need to change much at all. The Batman in particular will never get any more realistic without losing value in his character, since it can only mean that he's more "normal," which means he can do less than he previously could do.

"Plausibility" may be a better world, but even that's sketchy. I like the tentacle harness from 'Spider-Man 2' better than the one in the comics, because it does seem more "real" and many of its aspects are more believable. That doesn't mean you should ever even think of changing the actual characterization. It's just a better set of equipment that does the same thing it did in the comics. That's all that ever need be done for Dr. Octopus, as an example. The fact is, that was a situation where you'd have to do complete CGI to give the audience tentacles that looked like they did in the comics, since the visual representation of what they were supposed to be was completely implausible. With some creativity and hard work, they pulled off the same content with a realistic visual representation. Why can't they do that for the Batman, who has never been physically impossible to recreate in real life? They simply choose not to, out of cowardice and/or laziness, and of course WB's pride for the earlier franchise (why they're still using bulky rubber).

Ahem. Point is, good point, Cullen. :up:

:wolverine
 
No rant, just a few observations. I think you're right about people being nervous about being perceived as odd for liking superheroes, I'm 52 and sometimes I think about that, but then I think "Screw that, I like what I like, and if someone thinks I'm odd for it, that's their problem." This paranoia is what leads to this overemphasis on realism that many are carrying to a ridiculous degree.
And this disrespect for the source material makes no sense to me either. I mean, isn't the whole point of doing an adaptation to bring the source material to life? I understand you may need to change some things in order to fit the cinematic model, but you can go too far. This is why Lord of the Rings is a better movie than Catwoman. Peter Jackson, although changing some things, kept the things that made the books so special, while in the Catwoman film they changed everything, so the only thing left that was even remotely recognizable was the costume and the name.
I really wish that Nolan had been clearer in his use of the word "realism", although it's not really his fault. I blame the fans who latched onto that word and ignored the other things he said that showed he knew the importance of the fantasy aspect of the characters. And as you and others have said, if you absolutely need some sort of realistic reason for certain fantastical things, and you can't think of any, that doesn't mean those things should be changed or left out altogether, it just means you have no imagination. No matter what, Batman is first and foremost a fantasy. If you want Batman to be "realistic", then all you're left with is a rogue vigilante who dresses all in black, and is either killed or arrested within the first month of his career. Where's the fun in that?
 
To give an idea of how in-depth and advanced my Batman video game series would be, here are the tutorials you'd have to go through in the 'Year One' game. They are all skills that either translate or exactly resemble what you'll be doing as the Batman. They will take place in different locations at different points in Bruce Wayne's life, corresponding and expanding on the miniseries that shows his 12 years abroad before returning to Gotham and becoming the Batman. I'll note who the mentor(s) are for each tutorial, as far as I know. These notes aren't final or complete, though. It's just off the top of my head at the moment. Zaphod wanted to take the more active role in writing the origin miniseries, and these are some ideas I had for that as well, but again, they aren't the final word. Certain skills are taught several times, in different ways, by different people). Also, remember, this is supposed to be a very long game, so don't think it's all origin.




TUTORIALS (training flashbacks, not in order):
  • Fighting
    • Punching/Kicking (Master Kirigi in his Korean monastery)
    • Blocking/Defense (Kirigi)
    • Dashing/Evading (Kirigi)
    • Grappling/Throwing (Kirigi)
    • Jump/Acrobatics Maneuvers (Kirigi)
    • Weapons/Cape attacks (Kirigi)
    • First Aid (Alfred Pennyworth, valet and former army medic)
  • Getting around
    • Walking/Running/Jumping (possibly Alfred, drawing from his military training, coaching Bruce as a teenager on a fitness/athletics routine Bruce insisted on)
    • Interacting (Computer prompts)
    • Rappelling/Swinging/Climbing (Alfred)
    • Acrobatics/Falling/Gliding
    • Swimming (Alfred or Computer prompts)
    • Vehicles
      • Racing car (local racing champ paid to teach 14 year old Bruce to drive fast cars illegally)
      • Motorcycle (local retired daredevil paid to teach 14 year old Bruce to drive motorcyles illegally)
  • Detective Skills
    • Crime Scene Investigation/Evidence (FBI)
    • Criminalistics (FBI)
    • Finding suspects (Willie Dogget, renowned American detective)
    • Surveillance (FBI)
    • Infiltration (FBI/Kirigi)
    • Interrogation (Henri Ducard, brutal French bounty hunter)
    • Disguise (Alfred, former theater actor and makeup expert)
    • Undercover work (Ducard/Alfred)
    • Escapology (Zatarra, famous stage illusionist and escapist)
    • Handcuffing perpetrators (FBI or Computer prompt)
    • Explosives (FBI teaches you how to set one up and how to disarm them)
  • Equipment/Gadgets/Weapons
    • Grappling hook (Kirigi)
    • Grapple gun (Computer prompt)
    • Multi-tool (Ducard)
    • Lock picking/Rope cutting (Zatarra)
    • Hacking (former CIA agent)
    • Boomerang (African Bushman)
    • Shuriken (Kirigi)
    • Bola (African Bushman)
    • Gas bombs (Kirigi)
  • Psychological Tactics
    • Timing (Kirigi)
    • Fear (Kirigi/Ducard)
    • Intimidation (Kirigi/Ducard)
    • Psychological manipulation (Kirigi/Ducard)
    • Answering and asking questions (Dogget/Alfred)
    • Bruce Wayne vs. Batman behavior (Alfred)

These are the types of crimes you'll be investigating as the Batman in Gotham City. I tried ranking them in terms of severity (according to what I know about criminal justice), with the violent crimes first (which is all but the last two.


CRIMES/CASES:
  • Terrorism (ex. Scarecrow, the Joker, etc. demanding money or official actions by city, or else…)
  • Homicide
  • Kidnapping
  • Assault & Battery
  • Robbery
  • Extortion/Racketeering
  • Carjacking
  • Burglary
  • Drug dealing
  • Grand Larceny
A lot of the crimes will be announced over the police band while you're patrolling. It's like the 'True Crime' games in that sense. When you respond, you must be wary of the cops, since the cops are your enemies, by and large. Luckily, they're lazy and irresponsible, so most of the crime scenes are free of them (except for the ones you stumble over where they're perpetrating) for a few minutes at least.



Below is the layout of an Xbox controller to give you an idea of what you'll be able to do instantaneously from the controller, and everything else involves menus or some kind. In case it isn't mentioned, "Bat-sense" is a super-slow mode that allows you more time to react at times where that's helpful, much like the "Bond-sense" in '007: Everything or Nothing.' It will further bring the player into the Batman's world by letting them think faster than everyone else in a pinch, although the perspective is obviously different.

INTERFACE:

GAME CONTROLS (for Xbox)
  • Left Trigger: Defense; Dash/Dive (w/ A Button + Left Thumbstick).
  • Right Trigger: Fire/Throw/Deploy Selected Gadget.
  • Directional Pad:
    • Up = Enter/Exit “Bat-Sense” Mode.
    • Down = Inventory Menu (Paused).
    • Left = Toggle Night Vision.
    • Right = Toggle Thermal/Infrared Vision.
  • Left Thumbstick: Movement. Click to Toggle Crouch/Stealth.
  • Right Thumbstick: Camera Control. Click to Enter/Exit First-Person/Close Inspection View.
  • A Button: Jump.
  • B Button: Grapple.
  • X Button: Punch.
  • Y Button: Kick.
  • White Button: Interact Menu (w/“Bat-Sense” Mode); Dialogue Menu.
  • Black Button: Gesture/Psychological Tactics Menu.
  • Start: Pause Menu.
  • Back: Mental Log Menu; Equipment Settings.

Thoughts?


:wolverine
 
Bathead said:
No rant, just a few observations. I think you're right about people being nervous about being perceived as odd for liking superheroes, I'm 52 and sometimes I think about that, but then I think "Screw that, I like what I like, and if someone thinks I'm odd for it, that's their problem." This paranoia is what leads to this overemphasis on realism that many are carrying to a ridiculous degree.
And this disrespect for the source material makes no sense to me either. I mean, isn't the whole point of doing an adaptation to bring the source material to life? I understand you may need to change some things in order to fit the cinematic model, but you can go too far. This is why Lord of the Rings is a better movie than Catwoman. Peter Jackson, although changing some things, kept the things that made the books so special, while in the Catwoman film they changed everything, so the only thing left that was even remotely recognizable was the costume and the name.
I really wish that Nolan had been clearer in his use of the word "realism", although it's not really his fault. I blame the fans who latched onto that word and ignored the other things he said that showed he knew the importance of the fantasy aspect of the characters. And as you and others have said, if you absolutely need some sort of realistic reason for certain fantastical things, and you can't think of any, that doesn't mean those things should be changed or left out altogether, it just means you have no imagination. No matter what, Batman is first and foremost a fantasy. If you want Batman to be "realistic", then all you're left with is a rogue vigilante who dresses all in black, and is either killed or arrested within the first month of his career. Where's the fun in that?

*applause*

Right on, Bathead. I actually have nothing to add to that at the moment. One again, you speak the truth succintly and poignantly. :up:

:wolverine
 
But if you don't allow debate, aren't you just talking to hear yourself talk? I mean, really, isn't that just preaching to the choir?
 

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