BvS Batman/Superman Pushed Back to 2016 - Part 1

[NoLaNitE007]

I think this bears repeating: I think it's tough to really criticize a studio whose every film has received reviews ranging from generally positive to unanimous acclaim.

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

 

[InJustice]

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

Holy ****, can we just get over the whole Rotten Tomatoes thing? Ratings should never validate what YOU think is a good or bad movie.

 

[NoLaNitE007]

What do you consider "senseless nitpicking?"

I think a case can be made for deteriorating quality if you compare both Phase I and II movies.



I think Thor II is problematic in its plot (or lack thereof IMO). We see characters do things, but the script never really shows the larger narrative at work (mainly because Marvel never really made Malekith's intentions clear, and the poor decision to have little backstory on him). I also feel that they really went overboard with the humour.

I agree in terms of milking, I mean it's jarring to see the tonal differences between Phase I and II. Marvel isn't known for their serious tone, but they really went overboard with the crappy humour rather than create a healthy balance like what Joss Whedon accomplished. And if they don't realize that they're doing it in excess, then people are eventually going to be tired of them.

I agree. They are going way overboard with the stupid humor which isn't really humor IMO.

That is what is a big turn off for me. Ever since IM2, the quality and over the top senseless comedy effort and plot holes are just lousy. CA was just bland and boring to me. Hence why I just download most Marvel films these days.

 

[Flint Marko]

What do you consider "senseless nitpicking?"

I think a case can be made for deteriorating quality if you compare both Phase I and II movies.

I agree that a case could be made for that (I don't necessarily agree as I loved IM3 and I enjoyed Thor 2), but that's not really what my original post was specifically addressing.
I consider "senseless nitpicking" the post I specifically addressed above comparing Marvel to a TV studio cranking out episode after episode without paying attention to the content. As I said I think that's a baseless accusation.
Any time I see someone criticize marvel's general approach to their movies it blows my mind. Whether you like them or not, they're all undeniably successful and the way they make their movies has completely changed the way people approach superhero movies forever.
Criticizing the individual films and flaws in each is totally acceptable and should be encouraged, but to say the way they've handled their overall plan leaves a lot to be desired is ridiculous. They're not all master pieces, but they've got their game plan figured out in a way no other movie studio with comic book properties does and you can't deny that.

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

There is no way there could be a bias amongst hundreds of different movie critics who all probably don't know each other and live all over the world. You do understand how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[NoLaNitE007]

Holy ****, can we just get over the whole Rotten Tomatoes thing? Ratings should never validate what YOU think is a good or bad movie.

I am just using RT as an example.

 

[RAE072]

I agree. They are going way overboard with the stupid humor which isn't really humor IMO.

That is what is a big turn off for me. Ever since IM2, the quality and over the top senseless comedy effort and plot holes are just lousy. CA was just bland and boring to me. Hence why I just download most Marvel films these days.

So a lot of them are bad because of humor that isn't humor but some of them are also bad because they're bland and boring.

Delicious.

 

[Mysteryman]

I disagree. For me Thor 2 and Iron man 2/3 are pretty bad. And there's some others I find good/decent, but nothing special. Of course, that's just my opinion.

I agree 100%.

 

[jmc]

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

There isn't a bias, it's just sometimes films are decisive - Man of Steel happens to be one of them. Lets be honest with ourselves, Man of Steel was a genuinely hit or miss experience for everyone, films like Thor 2 or IM3 seem to fall under a label of between average to good for the audience which isn't the same thing. I heard people say they thought IM3 or Thor 2 were ok, but I never heard anyone outright say they disliked the movies (outside these forums). For Man of Steel I've heard that, in fact we've all probably heard it, some people just don't like the movie.

 

[smallville fan]

I think Thor II is problematic in its plot (or lack thereof IMO). We see characters do things, but the script never really shows the larger narrative at work (mainly because Marvel never really made Malekith's intentions clear, and the poor decision to have little backstory on him). I also feel that they really went overboard with the humour.

I agree in terms of milking, I mean it's jarring to see the tonal differences between Phase I and II. Marvel isn't known for their serious tone, but they really went overboard with the crappy humour rather than create a healthy balance like what Joss Whedon accomplished. And if they don't realize that they're doing it in excess, then people are eventually going to be tired of them.

I think we'll see Thor: TDW's "plot" tie into the future Infinity story line they're planning on doing later. Agree with the humour milking in Thor 2. There was the good stuff like Cap's cameo and then there was stupid stuff like Thor riding the train. One of these days they're going to go overboard and it will blow up in their face.

 

[J.Howlett]

Ladies and fellas, was thinking about this film this morning, counting the months and whatnot and it just occurred to me fairly plainly that this 10 month delay is all about Justice League in 2017.

I'm sorry but if this film starts shooting in May and Snyder shoots until the end of 2014, you mean to tell me that he needs 15 months of post production to finish this film? Considering the fact that most big budget studio tentpole films do some type of post production while production is going on (as to make sure they make the release date), Snyder's gonna need 15 months to finish the editing, sound mixing, vfx, and score on this picture?

I'm sorry but no ****ing way. It is not uncommon but no, not this time. From May to December is 7 months production time. Most films today don't shoot that long, with the advancements in technology in film. 7 months and then another 15 months in post?!

WB's doing the Matrix sequels all over again with this. They're shooting two films almost at once. There will be some type of production done on the DC universe sometime in 2015, release of Superman vs. Batman in May of 2016 and then nothing?

Nope. Don't see WB letting the buzz off of Superman vs. Batman die down.

We're getting Justice League in 2017.

And before anyone links it, yes, I read the forbes.com article by Scott Mendelson on the reasoning for the May 2016 slot. Completely agree. Having said that, you don't think WB would take advantage of having this much time?

 

[craigdbfan]

Possible.

 

[slumcat]

Man Of Steel is a very problematic movie in every way - from the conception to the execution. Most movies have problems, MOS has more than usual. It perhaps has more potential than others. That is why its problems seem more egregious.

 

[slumcat]

By the way, Star Wars Episode VII does not have a cast in place at all. And they are coming out before this movie.

 

[J.Howlett]

What's problematic about Man of Steel's conception? It's a film we've seen plenty of times before. First contact/alien invasion film.

 

[Lord]

Man Of Steel is a very problematic movie in every way - from the conception to the execution. Most movies have problems, MOS has more than usual. It perhaps has more potential than others. That is why its problems seem more egregious.

While you acknowledge The Man of Steel is very problematic, you still have an avatar about it

 

[Herolee10]

While you acknowledge The Man of Steel is very problematic, you still have an avatar about it

That, and a slogan that says "The Non-Judge-mentalist"

I can remember reading one posts of Slumcat's that had anything good to say about the film. In fact, every post that I've seen is dedicated to point out one of its faults or to report when other people or organizations criticize it.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Man Of Steel is a very problematic movie in every way - from the conception to the execution. Most movies have problems, MOS has more than usual. It perhaps has more potential than others. That is why its problems seem more egregious.

THIS! It has problems from the script, the pacing, characterization, and possibly the performances (though I personally believe no one did that bad considering the spotty writing, except maybe the older Kryptonians early on.)

And part of that is because it reaches beyond what a normal superhero movie tries to do. And part of it is because of the editing, though Snyder seems to have done a 360 and became all Greengrass on the movie to overcompensate for his past work.

 

[Mjölnir]

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

What bias would that be exactly? Certainly not a Marvel bias since the Batman movies were very well received.

When it comes to Thor 2, which you single out a bit, it's not just critics. Everywhere I've looked where the people can say what they thought Thor 2 has a higher rating than MoS. Clearly it's been pretty well received. You tend to use RT as an example and the audience rating there for Thor 2 is only beaten by the Batman trilogy, Avengers, Iron Man and First Class out of all superhero movies, iirc as it was a while since I looked at such things. I personally don't care how things are viewed by the majority as only my own opinion matters for my own entertainment, but it's unavoidable to bring up when people try to make subjective matters into facts.

The easy thing is to just accept that people might just think differently than you do. Especially with MoS I can't see how it's hard to see why it's been criticized, especially since I've only seen it once and remember so many. To make a comparison, I like IM2 but I have no problems seeing the flaws that make many criticize it. They just happen to be the kind of flaws that I can live with well enough to still be entertained. There's nothing wrong in liking what we like, it's just how it is. Trying to make your opinion more than others and claim they have an agenda when they disagree though? That's starting to get downright silly.

 

[Kryptonian Warrior]

Ladies and fellas, was thinking about this film this morning, counting the months and whatnot and it just occurred to me fairly plainly that this 10 month delay is all about Justice League in 2017.

I'm sorry but if this film starts shooting in May and Snyder shoots until the end of 2014, you mean to tell me that he needs 15 months of post production to finish this film? Considering the fact that most big budget studio tentpole films do some type of post production while production is going on (as to make sure they make the release date), Snyder's gonna need 15 months to finish the editing, sound mixing, vfx, and score on this picture?

I'm sorry but no ****ing way. It is not uncommon but no, not this time. From May to December is 7 months production time. Most films today don't shoot that long, with the advancements in technology in film. 7 months and then another 15 months in post?!

WB's doing the Matrix sequels all over again with this. They're shooting two films almost at once. There will be some type of production done on the DC universe sometime in 2015, release of Superman vs. Batman in May of 2016 and then nothing?

Nope. Don't see WB letting the buzz off of Superman vs. Batman die down.

We're getting Justice League in 2017.

And before anyone links it, yes, I read the forbes.com article by Scott Mendelson on the reasoning for the May 2016 slot. Completely agree. Having said that, you don't think WB would take advantage of having this much time?

Well MOS was delayed 6 months and that was finished filming in February of 2012. That's 16 months of post-production. However, I do agree with you and I have this feeling that they are going to film back to back.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

The Marvel Universe started with AC/DC in a Humvee that gets blown up in a current war.

The DC Universe started with a crying baby on a very different/SCI FI world.

Where will they end?

 

[Mysteryman]

1.The year one hundred zillion AC.
2.NEVER!

 

[roach]

What's problematic about Man of Steel's conception? It's a film we've seen plenty of times before. First contact/alien invasion film.

The problem is that no other superhero has a rigid characterization that people hold to religiously. We've allowed other characters to go off in other directions by way of characterization but Superman has to be the Superman we have seen in every movie.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Generally positive to unanimous acclaim now? Rotten Tomatoes is not the end all be all either.

I personally think there is a bias going on with critics...especially when I see IM2, IM3, Captain America and Thor 1 and especially Thor 2 receive better reviews than Man of Steel?

I have an issue with that.

Maybe critics gave Man of Steel bad reviews because it's a bad film.

I know your mind just exploded by that logic because mine did.

Man of Steel has a good cast, good visuals, good director, terrible screenwriter with Goyer.

If you're script ain't good, no amount of special effects and CGI can change the fact the story is terrible.

 

[Fizicks]

When it comes to Thor 2, which you single out a bit, it's not just critics. Everywhere I've looked where the people can say what they thought Thor 2 has a higher rating than MoS. Clearly it's been pretty well received. You tend to use RT as an example and the audience rating there for Thor 2 is only beaten by the Batman trilogy, Avengers, Iron Man and First Class out of all superhero movies, iirc as it was a while since I looked at such things. I personally don't care how things are viewed by the majority as only my own opinion matters for my own entertainment, but it's unavoidable to bring up when people try to make subjective matters into facts.

The easy thing is to just accept that people might just think differently than you do. Especially with MoS I can't see how it's hard to see why it's been criticized, especially since I've only seen it once and remember so many. To make a comparison, I like IM2 but I have no problems seeing the flaws that make many criticize it. They just happen to be the kind of flaws that I can live with well enough to still be entertained. There's nothing wrong in liking what we like, it's just how it is. Trying to make your opinion more than others and claim they have an agenda when they disagree though? That's starting to get downright silly.

I agree with you that what's most important is our own opinion of a movie, and not take to heart what critics say.

However, I do want to point out that your statement about Thor 2 being generally more well-received than Man of Steel is quite inaccurate, for both critics and audiences. While Thor does have a higher audience rating and overall critic rating on RT, it only has a score of 41% from top critics, lower than Man of Steels' 53%. On Metacritic, Man of Steel has a critic score of 55% and a user score of 7.7/10, while Thor 2 has 54% and a user score of 7.8/10. On CinemaScore, which was rated by moviegoers, both films got an A-.

Point is, I wouldn't say Thor 2 was better received than Man of Steel, let alone be pretty well received.

I for one thought it wasn't a very good movie, and possibly the worst movie from Marvel Studios to date. But I can see why others would like it, for it's humor, for example.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The Marvel Universe started with AC/DC in a Humvee that gets blown up in a current war.

The DC Universe started with a crying baby on a very different/SCI FI world.

Where will they end?

The X-Men series started in Nazi Germany putting Jews in Camps.