The Dark Knight Batman Vision put on screen

[Sandouras]

I thought i'd make my first thread. I hope its a good topic. I want to discuss the nolan-antinolan arguement more and even take a vote.

Vote Obama....er....Nolan if you embrace his vision more than 80%,
Vote for Nolan-BTAS-comics if you want Nolan's genious in BTAS/comics form. Meaning kinda comic book accurate.
Vote comic book accurate, if you want a movie with a direct comics feel (spiderman)
Vote for fun if you want some more fun and some more lightheartedness in certain occasions like BF did (dont mix it with B&R)
Vote for fantasy if you want a more fantastical batman, like B89 or BR, or Batman vs Predator, or Batman in space.
Vote other if you want something else.

Of course, the answer could be a combination of the above.

______________________________________________________________


I will go straight and say that i vote for Nolan-BTAS. I embrace what Nolan does to about 90%. I never fully embraced Burton, not even as a kid. I did however embrace BF more. I overlooked its flaws and took time to appreciate its modern-ess and contemporary feel. Its better fighting scenes and better batman/bruce wayne. Thats just me of course and i was a kid then.

So BB was the batman i always wanted to have. Thats how i pictured Forever if i could somehow alter it with my then young hands. For me, batman begins is a lot like BTAS. Even the begins suit looked a lot like the animated batman (big chest and stuff). Its just a bit more grounded in reality. It helps me bond with it more. Perhaps all Nolan's vision needs is that masterpiece BTAS gotham and some more unrealistic elements.

I dont want batman evading a ton of bullets like bond though. I always lift an eyebrow at that. Maybe him being more mobile, doing some flips, jumping a bit higher and doing some things without the tedious explanation. Something in between, but no cloth underpants suit and crazy comics stuff like batman vs villains like predator, or.....dunno....remember Ink in Batman Beyond? .....in film she would be meh....
I would even love to see Clark Kent in it and some good plot that would go through their friendship and their coming to understand one another. Of course nolan wouldnt allow a flying boyscout in his world. I guess all i am suggesting is that Nolan lets more water slip under the drain, or whatever that phase goes.

And as for Nolan's genious, well i mean his flashback technique, his general storytelling abilities, the wonderful character development and his casting choices. Even his maelstrom of a batmobile and YES, his Joker. I dont want to start a discussion on this cause there is already a thread about it, but i just never loved the joker. I liked him, but didnt love him. I do now, not because Nolan did it, but because its great IMHO. The viral marketing (and i mean, what it tells us about the joker, his games, puzzles and brilliant sense of humour that goes beyond electrifying someone with a gadget in his palm), the brilliant bank robbery, the attitude, the voice. Hamil was brilliant. He should get a freaking oscar, but this dude will f*** you up.

So, whaddaya think? Please elaborate if you can.


BTW: Thanks for everyone's contribution!

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

Do you like Nolan?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I thought i'd make my first thread. I hope its a good topic. I want to discuss the nolan-antinolan arguement more and even take a vote.

Vote Obama....er....Nolan if you embrace his vision more than 80%,
Vote for Nolan-BTAS-comics if you want Nolan's genious in BTAS/comics form. Meaning kinda comic book accurate.
Vote comic book accurate, if you want a movie with a direct comics feel (spiderman)

I wouldn't say that the Spider-man movies had a direct comics feel. They got many things wrong with the character, and they definitely could have been done better.

That said, I would have to vote Nolan-BTAS-comics.

I liked quite a bit of what Nolan did, but he was definitely missing some aspects of Batman that was in the comics and TAS that could have made the movie better.

For one, I think both BTAS and the comics do a better job of portraying Bruce's intelligence. They only made references to Bruce's smarts in BB, but BTAS really showed it, and I'd like that in the next movie.

I'd also like Nolan to try and stick a little closer to the comics in certain aspects. BTAS did this very nicely, and in some cases improved upon the source material (Mr. Freeze anyone?)

So while I don't want Nolan to try to be completely faithful to the comics (because he can't, seeing as how they're hundreds of interpretations of Batman and his rouges) I'd like him to try to translate some of the characters more faithfully. Like Falcone and Flass. I didn't think making Flass a fat coward did anything for the character. Nolan should have simply made him some other generic bad cop, because that wasn't Flass.

Falcone was better, but he didn't have the refined intelligence I got from in in TLH. Falcone in the movie seemed more akin to how Maroni acted then Falcone in the comics.


So overall, I'd like Nolan to take a bit more inspiration from the comics.

 

[Sandouras]

I wouldn't say that the Spider-man movies had a direct comics feel. They got many things wrong with the character, and they definitely could have been done better.

That said, I would have to vote Nolan-BTAS-comics.

I liked quite a bit of what Nolan did, but he was definitely missing some aspects of Batman that was in the comics and TAS that could have made the movie better.

For one, I think both BTAS and the comics do a better job of portraying Bruce's intelligence. They only made references to Bruce's smarts in BB, but BTAS really showed it, and I'd like that in the next movie.

I'd also like Nolan to try and stick a little closer to the comics in certain aspects. BTAS did this very nicely, and in some cases improved upon the source material (Mr. Freeze anyone?)

So while I don't want Nolan to try to be completely faithful to the comics (because he can't, seeing as how they're hundreds of interpretations of Batman and his rouges) I'd like him to try to translate some of the characters more faithfully. Like Falcone and Flass. I didn't think making Flass a fat coward did anything for the character. Nolan should have simply made him some other generic bad cop, because that wasn't Flass.

Falcone was better, but he didn't have the refined intelligence I got from in in TLH. Falcone in the movie seemed more akin to how Maroni acted then Falcone in the comics.


So overall, I'd like Nolan to take a bit more inspiration from the comics.

Lets not forget that BTAS although serious was a saturday morning cartoon while we are talking about a movie that targets a wider audiece, not just fans and kids. So maybe some things should be changed. Like doc oc's green suit for example in spiderman. Other than that, yes Falcone didnt seem that intelligent, but god Flass was awesome! Teh funny fallafel man!

That said, Nolan claimed that there is a lot more detective and mind work in TDK. While going through the origins and batman returning and settling in gotham they hardly had time to show much of it. They promised to do it now.
Finally, BTAS, having countless episodes to work on batman worked more on batman's psych, origins and relationships. Like learning to be an escape artist by Zatanna's father (god i loved that episode and zatanna's love for him). Imagine BB having to show us all the crazy training that bruce went through and portray all the great characters he met that affected him.


EDIT: well i got all pumped up on that episode of BTAS, so i will comment a bit more about it. I will just say that i loved how Zatanna eventually saw who bruce came to be. Like Lana in Superman's mythos always knew that there was something extraordinary with clark. When superman came out, she instantly knew who he was. What clarks destiny was. I just love that. *Going back to watch BTAS, cause Nolan aint gonna give me Zatanna coming to gotham, triggering flashbacks of Bruce's training that we didnt see in BB*.

 

[Visionary]

I wouldn't put BTAS next to Nolan's film, because BTAS' Batman/Bruce is written 10 times better, and doesn't talk with a lisp.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Lets not forget that BTAS although serious was a saturday morning cartoon while we are talking about a movie that targets a wider audiece, not just fans and kids. So maybe some things should be changed. Like doc oc's green suit for example in spiderman. Other than that, yes Falcone didnt seem that intelligent, but god Flass was awesome! Teh funny fallafel man!

I'm saying everything should be changed either, just some things. And I really didn't mind Doc Ock's outfit, but the things that really bugged me where when they change the character. Doc Ock's never been a good guy. He's always been a prick who does whatever the heck he wants. Making him the "good guy turned into a monster" thing was pointless. If you want to do that story have the Lizard in the movie.

That and cutting out Spidey's personality. He's supposed to be funny and witty, but he barely talked in costume. That's not Spider-man.

Those are things I'd change to make closer to the comic books, the broader themes that the characters have. I'm not as picky on the little details.

And I don't think Flass should have been taken out of the movie, I thought he was quite enjoyable, he just wasn't Flass. Flass isn't a fat cowardly slob. Flass is an ex Green Barret that knows how to hurt.

That said, Nolan claimed that there is a lot more detective and mind work in TDK. While going through the origins and batman returning and settling in gotham they hardly had time to show much of it. They promised to do it now.
Finally, BTAS, having countless episodes to work on batman worked more on batman's psych, origins and relationships. Like learning to be an escape artist by Zatanna's father (god i loved that episode and zatanna's love for him). Imagine BB having to show us all the crazy training that bruce went through and portray all the great characters he met that affected him.


EDIT: well i got all pumped up on that episode of BTAS, so i will comment a bit more about it. I will just say that i loved how Zatanna eventually saw who bruce came to be. Like Lana in Superman's mythos always knew that there was something extraordinary with clark. When superman came out, she instantly knew who he was. What clarks destiny was. I just love that. *Going back to watch BTAS, cause Nolan aint gonna give me Zatanna coming to gotham, triggering flashbacks of Bruce's training that we didnt see in BB*.

I certainly hope that Nolan gives us more detective work, because in many ways I find the Sherlock Holmes aspect of Batman more interesting then the Bruce Lee aspect.

And I agree, I really did enjoy the Zatanna episode of BTAS too.

 

[Sandouras]

I'm saying everything should be changed either, just some things. And I really.......
....
....
did enjoy the Zatanna episode of BTAS too.

I know what you mean, and man do i concur on spidey and his humour. All they gave us on that front was his dancing as peter parker. Facepalm!

Now back on topic. I know you didnt want flass out. I read Year One a few months ago and i loved it. But just Gordon's story (family, affair, psych, Flass) would take a whole film by itself. Thats why they made Gordon a gothamite and stuff. As for flass, well, he isnt the flass of year one. They toned him down and just used him as the opposite of Gordon. Perhaps Nolan isnt using the name Montoya on that latin police officer in TDK, just to avoid direct comparison like this one.

Yeah, Zatanna for the win! Bruce is a nutcase for not tapping that!

 

[Aidan2209]

I'm not a DCU fan, so I'd never want to see Batman and Superman in the same film. Batman/Superman, Justice League, etc. aren't my thing. As for Burton's Batman movies, I like them, but I wouldn't call myself a fan (although I am a Tim Burton fan). Batman Begins absolutely blew me away - it's the best comic-book film I've seen to date. I enjoy the plausibility Nolan gives to the character and his methods, as well as to Gotham city and the criminals that inhabit it, although I can sort of understand why others aren't so keen on it. I only started reading Batman comics last year, so I'm probably not as protective of the source material as others here. So long as the adaptation is good, ultra-fidelity to the "source material" comes in second to creativity. IMHO, of course.

 

[GoogleMe94]

fantasy for me. but a realistic fantasy, not super realistic like nolan, nor cartoonishly gaudy like schumacher.

 

[Sandouras]

I'm not a DCU fan, so I'd never want to see Batman and Superman in the same film. Batman/Superman, Justice League, etc. aren't my thing.

I had the exact sentiment. And then i watched JL animated and saw how being part of the group doesnt nullify either character, but rather makes them stand out from the each other and better explores their character doing comparisons or putting them in different setting/situations that those we are used to seeing them. Soon you get used to seeing Batman out of Gotham and like the awe his presence provokes to the JL.

Example: There was an episode where the Flass is going to have his own museum in central city but because the others are missing, he has no choice but to call batman, although he knows his grumpy, solitary nature. Batman accepts and Orion is left clueless as to why batman "even talks to this clown".
Or the episode about Superman's death. How he handled it was a great insight.
I mean....the goddamn batman bonded with actual people! Thats a spectacle on its own! Go and get it along with BTAS. Seriously!

 

[Aidan2209]

So while I don't want Nolan to try to be completely faithful to the comics (because he can't, seeing as how they're hundreds of interpretations of Batman and his rouges) I'd like him to try to translate some of the characters more faithfully.

Glad you mentioned this. It's why I put "source material" in inverted commas.

 

[Reflectionist]

The most I would want to see Superman in a Batman movie would be a reference to "that clown in metropolis," because I loved that line.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Other

The storytelling of Chris Nolan's Batman
The visual style of Batman Forever and TAS
The resonance of Tim Burton's Batman
The Batman portrayal himself like TAS
All while remaining faithful to the source material in tactility.

 

[BatSpider]

God I love BF!

 

[weezerspider]

I say Nolan BTAS. I liked Nolan's vision, but I'd like a little comic acuracy blended in with it.

 

[Sandouras]

Other

The storytelling of Chris Nolan's Batman
The visual style of Batman Forever and TAS
The resonance of Tim Burton's Batman
The Batman portrayal himself like TAS
All while remaining faithful to the source material in tactility.

I didnt get those two. and i hope you mean BF without the neon.

 

[Sandouras]

One more thing. Since we are talking about the vision, we could discuss the possible future of bruce wayne we would like to see in a sequel of the film we envision.

I mean, do you want Batman Beyond?
The Dark Knight Returns?
Grayson taking over the mantle of the bat?
Bruce dying, becoming a national hero?

Btw, whats the cannon on this in DC comics? What happens in the future?


I would go with Batman Beyond in the distant future. Gives a great gotham, a totally different version of batman, in capabilities (ironman type suit), looks, and character. We get more character development on Bruce but not that bitterness and total d1ckery and bone-breakage that DKR was filled with (Timm handled grumpy old bruce better imho).
In the meantime, maybe Dick Grayson taking the mantle or maybe batman disappearing into urban legend status after the heart attack. I depend a lot on DC's cannon take on this (time between Batman and batman beyond). Bruce dying is out of the question as Timm realized when producing Beyond. He will always be the backbone.

 

[BatSpider]

Um...........How Bout Bruce Wayne keeps on doing what he does

 

[Mr. Socko]

I didnt get those two.

With the first one about Burton I mean the sense of silent mystique surrounding the character. The shifting first and third person pov he was written in that made him seem mysterious while in the cowl. And with the second one I mean the actual performance of Batman and Bruce Wayne, should be akin to that of the animated series version.

and i hope you mean BF without the neon.

I didn't. Because without the neon, the look itself was essentially the same as Burton/TAS Gotham. The neon played a big part in giving it a distinctive style, I liked it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

With the first one about Burton I mean the sense of silent mystique surrounding the character. The shifting first and third person pov he was written in that made him seem mysterious while in the cowl. And with the second one I mean the actual performance of Batman and Bruce Wayne, should be akin to that of the animated series version.



I didn't. Because without the neon, the look itself was essentially the same as Burton/TAS Gotham. The neon played a big part in giving it a distinctive style, I liked it.

Hmm, to each his own, but I'd rather the Neon stay out of Gotham. I was more of a fan of Burton's Gotham then the Neon Gotham.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Hmm, to each his own, but I'd rather the Neon stay out of Gotham. I was more of a fan of Burton's Gotham then the Neon Gotham.

Of'course, it goes without saying.

I loved Burton's Gotham in B'89. The art deco style which carried over to TAS was fantastic. Unfortunately it was also blended with much of the 80s that has now outdated a portion of it. But I thought Burton really got the atmosphere right in the first one. In BR, the world he recreated was masterful but also came off as very elseworldly due to it being so bleak. As a big fan of Tim Burton, I thought his BR Gotham was great, but it became more Tim Burton Gotham than Batman Gotham. And with that said, I loved neon style of Batman Forever. I'm sure I probably won't see it again but it combined with the animated style would be ideal to me.

 

[namtaB]

Nolan+

I embrace his vision 100%

 

[Sandouras]

Just posting to remind you to discuss (if you want) about the future you want batman to have in your vision.


Also, elaborating more on my view, i think that even though batman's world is a fantastical one, he is more grounded to reality than that of a Green Lantern. Nolan didnt change too many things in BB. He didnt show us the pits (maybe they existed....i am sure not in nolan's mind but at least he left it open for interpretation) and from the vision he set up we can rule out clayface or darkseid. Maybe even harley quinn and ivy.

Sure its a big change, but it helps us bond with the characters more, simply because in a live movie its flesh and blood. Its easier when the setting is something you can relate to. That said, he should leave some more freedom. Maybe his gotham is the setting we can relate to, as well as his realistic characters and the way he explores each one. But then there could be more stuff:

His rhas was exceptional but he should be ready to handle clayface or ivy if he was asked to. There is still room for that. I mean, The Batman's gotham is like a real city and look what is going on there! Just because gotham is normal (well....ninjas, scarecrows, toxins....) now, doesnt mean that darkseid cant come and ravage it tomorrow! So nolan could adapt those villains and elements and even change them artistically if he wanted, to give something new, but not ground them on reality. Give them a more realistic feel, ok, but finding a boring real life explanation for moving plants would be bad.

Damn, zatanna and ivy (btas, not schumacher style) would be really good!

 

[emj2006]

Nolan or BTAS all the way!!

 

[Damiean Dark]

tim burtons gotham
tim burtons batmobile
george cloonys wayne micheal keatons batman cloony advanced by miles as an actor a few years after B&R he would perfectly portray the playboy with the underlining intelligence wayne is mixed together with Keatons bat who was like another person to wayne, a complete duality he had the mystiqe factor all other batmen have lacked since where you dont know if the guy is a maniac, a hero or both.