Batman Vs. Superman Who Would Win

[terry78]

Some people subscribe to the theory that Superman is just playing dumb. Honestly, holding back mentally and physically.

 

[Savage]

Or that Superman was raised as a human boy in middle-America so therefor THINKS like a human from middle-America. Coming to think about it though, the man did not spend 12 years in exile doing nothing. He was doing the exact same thing that Bruce Wayne was doing all these years, if not more.

What it comes down to is that writers try to keep a balance. It's why The Flash is faster than Superman, Batman is smarter than Superman, Aquaman can kick Superman's ass underwater, etc. If Superman just dominated everybody then why would we need them? Why would we need a Justice League? If Superman was written at his full potential then people would be even MORE bored with him than they are now since he would be unstoppable. In fact the point of the character WAS to be unstoppable. They kept adding on made up powers to fulfill that very purpose such as "super-hypnosis" and "super-ventriloquism" and such. Superman can easily beat Batman but can never be written that way because it makes Batman, the smartest member of the Justice League, obsolete. Hell, it would make the entire Justice League obsolete.

Smartest as well as the most powerful? Might as well cancel the Superman books at that point because he'd just be god.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

every reason given for Batman to win always involves superman being a complete moron. If Superman knows they are going to fight all he has to do is fly at Mach 1000 and flick Batman in the head and he's out cold, fight over with Superman acting in character.

I'm not so sure I would call that move "in character" since I hardly remember a time that he has ever done such a thing in a fight with a non-powered human.

But I may be wrong.

but I can't for a second believe that Batman would beat Superman in a truly fair fight (and by fair I mean both characters left with nothing but what makes them them and either both knowing of the upcoming fight or completely clueless).

See the problem with the critria you set forth is that it leaves Batman open to useing any gadjet he has in his belt.

And he has been known carry Kryptonite in his belt seemingly for no reason so the fight tips to a "so called" unfair position.

Accept that Batman would lose and move on.

Why except it when there's evidence of the contrary?????

Have you ever been in a fight? I'm talking about an actual fight, like a street fight, suddenly, outa nowhere, no one coulda predicted this, a real "holy ****!" fight, like getting mugged. That's a fight, holmes. A fight with some heads up is not the same thing.

Your analogy is narrow minded and childish.

But to answer your question....I was the only white looking kid growing up between the Pink houses Projects and Linden towers in east NY Brooklyn so you tell me if I've ever been in a actual street fight?????

And I dont see how knowing the fights comming makes it any less real.

When in truth, Superman is as smart as Batman, and in fact smarter. He's the son of Krypton's most influencial mind. Superman has access to technology far superior to Batman, which in turn leads him to have access to more information than Batman. Superman's genetic make up already puts his mind at a higher level than Batman, its just, so many writers have not tapped into this truth, which leads us all to believe that Batman is smarter than Superman. Superman is a highly advanced alien species, both physically and mentally, their race has been around for thousands of years longer than humans, which means they've had more time to evolve their brains and intellect.

To make my point I'll use Tarzan as the perfect metaphor. Tarzan, a human, arguably the most intelligent species on the planet earth. But as an infant he was left to be raised by wild gorrillas. Thusly, he grew up with gorilla customs, communication and habits/instinct. Yet, he was always a little above the rest of the gorillas because of his evolved brain. Tarzan was able to live as one of the gorillas, but at the same time, he was able to use tools, memory and ingenuity to become the Lord of the Jungle. Then as soon as he makes contact with more humans, his brain jumpstarts further. Parts of his brain which were inactive, became active. Ways of thinking and seeing things which he never did before, he now does with ease. Yet, with this advanced knowledge, technology and resources now available to him, Tarzan still goes back to living with the gorillas, living as one of the inhabitants of the jungle.

And this is Superman on earth, he is Tarzan and the earth/solar system is his jungle, so no matter how smart the most intelligent human is on earth, Superman is still far more superior.

I could subscribe to this theroy because it makes perfect sence but there is a major problem with it and you pointed it out your self.

The writters havent tapped into the idea.

As it stands the idea that Superman has a "super-intelligence" was abandoned over 25 years ago.

There really isint any evidence to suggest that Superman is far smarter then any average human.

And as for having accesss to alien tech....Sup's has handed over most [if not all] assecss and info to that tech to Batman so it wouldnt be that much of an advantage to Supes.

He was doing the exact same thing that Bruce Wayne was doing all these years, if not more.

Excuse me????

What it comes down to is that writers try to keep a balance. It's why The Flash is faster than Superman, Batman is smarter than Superman, Aquaman can kick Superman's ass underwater, etc. If Superman just dominated everybody then why would we need them? Why would we need a Justice League? If Superman was written at his full potential then people would be even MORE bored with him than they are now since he would be unstoppable. In fact the point of the character WAS to be unstoppable. They kept adding on made up powers to fulfill that very purpose such as "super-hypnosis" and "super-ventriloquism" and such. Superman can easily beat Batman but can never be written that way because it makes Batman, the smartest member of the Justice League, obsolete. Hell, it would make the entire Justice League obsolete.

And you hit it right on the head this time.

Based on powers alone Supes takes the fight but in fights like this you have to also consider how these type of stories have been written before,you have to consider the characterazations of the 2 involved and most imporantly you have to consider how such a fight would effect later stories.

 

[Savage]

Excuse me????

You are aware that Superman did not sit on his hands for 12 years...He was learning. Training. Learning about earth and it's history as well as krypton's. That includes many sciences. Once again something many people (including the writers) tend to forget.

And you hit it right on the head this time.

Based on powers alone Supes takes the fight but in fights like this you have to also consider how these type of stories have been written before,you have to consider the characterazations of the 2 involved and most imporantly you have to consider how such a fight would effect later stories.

Yes but are we talking about a fight between the characters or how would the characters be written? I think I'm confused. I thought we were talking about a fight here and not how would would what writer write whom.

See the problem with the critria you set forth is that it leaves Batman open to useing any gadjet he has in his belt.

And he has been known carry Kryptonite in his belt seemingly for no reason so the fight tips to a "so called" unfair position.

Which is useless if he's not fast enough to pull it out. But are we talking about a fight or what benefits a story the best?

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

You are aware that Superman did not sit on his hands for 12 years...He was learning. Training. Learning about earth and it's history as well as krypton's. That includes many sciences. Once again something many people (including the writers) tend to forget.

Its not that its forgotten by writter or reader its that every few years they change the facts of his past.

At this point I really couldnt tell you how old Clark was when he first became aware of Krypton.

And I've never seen any evidence of 12 years of "Training".I'm not saying that he sat around and did nothing.He had plenty of adventures and experances but thats a far cry from training for a 1 man war on crime.

Yes but are we talking about a fight between the characters or how would the characters be written? I think I'm confused. I thought we were talking about a fight here and not how would would what writer write whom.

But dont you see you cant have one with out the other????

If we're talking about a fight between "THESE" 2 characters then it would have to be written to fit the characterizations of both characters as they have been written in modern times.

Which is useless if he's not fast enough to pull it out.

Batman has used a sensor grid surrounding his body that activates when ever Superman penetrates it.

It is conceivable that Batman could have the Kryponite rigged to be released from his belt when Supes penetrates that grid.So Bats doesnt even have to pull it out.

But are we talking about a fight or what benefits a story the best?

The fight is the story.

 

[dnno1]

I still think this will happen if they fought:

 

[Savage]

Its not that its forgotten by writter or reader its that every few years they change the facts of his past.

At this point I really couldnt tell you how old Clark was when he first became aware of Krypton.

And I've never seen any evidence of 12 years of "Training".I'm not saying that he sat around and did nothing.He had plenty of adventures and experances but thats a far cry from training for a 1 man war on crime.

Whether it was 12 years or not, Clark spent years in the fortress of solitude learning all the sciences known to man and kryptonians. He may not have been training with ninjas but he knows how to work a crime scene as much Batman does (or he SHOULD anyway. Smallville High was not the extent of his education but rather a microcosm). Superman is already born physically capable. He spent those years in the fortress working his mind. He was Batman's mental equal if not superior. Don't know if this has been retconned or not though.

But dont you see you cant have one with out the other????

If we're talking about a fight between "THESE" 2 characters then it would have to be written to fit the characterizations of both characters as they have been written in modern times.

Okay then pretend they're real people like I'm doing and maybe you'll see my point. Pretend there are no biased writers involved with predicting their actions and going through twists and turns to create an outcome.

Batman has used a sensor grid surrounding his body that activates when ever Superman penetrates it.

It is conceivable that Batman could have the Kryponite rigged to be released from his belt when Supes penetrates that grid.So Bats doesnt even have to pull it out.

See? Twists and turns for a desired outcome. I can just as easily say "Well Superman can show up in a lead suit and beat the crap out of Batman." On an equal plane, if both characters knew of the fight, Superman would win. If Metallo couldn't beat him, if Lex Luthor couldn't beat him, then Batman cannot beat him. It takes incredible preparation and unlikely circumstances, not to mention the element of surprise and if we're talking about an equal plane then either both characters know of the fight or both characters don't. Under both of those equal circumstances I see Superman winning.

Either character CAN beat the other but 7 or 8 times out of 10 Superman will win.

 

[ant3ros]

There are many situations where Batman could win, but if we're talking about a simple and serious fight, Superman would win. There's no debate about it in my head.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Whether it was 12 years or not, Clark spent years in the fortress of solitude learning all the sciences known to man and kryptonians. He may not have been training with ninjas but he knows how to work a crime scene as much Batman does (or he SHOULD anyway. Smallville High was not the extent of his education but rather a microcosm). Superman is already born physically capable. He spent those years in the fortress working his mind. He was Batman's mental equal if not superior. Don't know if this has been retconned or not though.

Thats a tough one because it has been retconned in and out so many times that I dont know which elimentes of those events are still part of Supermans history.

Okay then pretend they're real people like I'm doing and maybe you'll see my point. Pretend there are no biased writers involved with predicting their actions and going through twists and turns to create an outcome.

Even in pretending that there "REAL PEOPLE" you then have to consider if they are as they have been written.If these characters "IN REAL LIFE" are the same as they have been written were back to the same outcome.

The reason the fight go's the way it does is not because they are real people or not but because of the type of people both are.

Like I said before I can very much see Superboy Prime winning this fight in 2 seconds in the various fashions that many here have described, superspeed ko, melting Bats from space with heat vision, smaching Bats skull with his fingers, but I cant see Superman doing any of these things because its not in his character.

Wether he was a real person or not.

See? Twists and turns for a desired outcome. I can just as easily say "Well Superman can show up in a lead suit and beat the crap out of Batman." On an equal plane, if both characters knew of the fight, Superman would win. If Metallo couldn't beat him, if Lex Luthor couldn't beat him, then Batman cannot beat him. It takes incredible preparation and unlikely circumstances, not to mention the element of surprise and if we're talking about an equal plane then either both characters know of the fight or both characters don't. Under both of those equal circumstances I see Superman winning.

I dont agree.The second you give Bats the foreknowlidge of the fight your giving him the upper hand.Even if you give Supes the same info your still giving Bats a chance to impliment one of his various plans.

And as we both know his plans would envolve cheating in one way or an other.

The only times that Sup's has come out on top were times that ether one or both characters werent in control of them selfs or is Bats was caught off guard.

 

[scatterax]

^ok, if superman knows about the battle he can just destroy the batcave. then batman couldn't prepare anything. but do you honestly think batman could even compete w/ superman w/o preptime? didn't think so

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

A fair fight is when batman has his usual gadgets (that don't include kryptonite if you wondering) and superman has all his powers.

Batman has the largest amount of Kryponite privately owned.So it is a part of his usual gadgets.

and no superman is not a god. but neither is batman. and out of the 2 supes is alot closer to being 1. all the batmans supporters arguements are xtra flawed, because it takes more than just good stratigy to win a fight. altho that is important. but you also have to have the strength and ability to fight. batman can't just think superman away no matter how much you want him too.

Batman has done it countless times.And he has beaten Supes before.

Deny it to yourself if you like.

also saying batman could beet superman cause he's a genious is like if you put batman and joker in a cage fight, took away all there gadgets and tricks (like jokers joy buzzer) and than saying the joker could win every time cause hes clever. (do you see how rediculous that sounds)

I dont see the analogy.

and ask for the "prep time" arguement. give supes enough info and prep time, and he'd be smart enough to bring a led suit and other defences. and he'd be on his guard so batty deffinatly wouldn't have a chance.

As stated Superman has other weaknesses that Batman is fully capable of exploiting.

and if you don't like how superman is far superier to batman physically than YOU can take it up w/ the writers.

And if you dont like how Batman has beated Superman time and time again I say you should take it up with the writters.

in a strait up fight where they just meat each other in the streets, the most I see batman doing is causing something really big to fall on superman. which wouldn't really faze him.

come up w/ a way for batman to beat a powered up superman, and I might listen.

Again Batman does it by ether useing his powers against him or by negating those powers.

oh, and if ur convinced that batman wouldn't be stupid enough to fight a powered up superman, than you already know batty would lose.

Again Batman is smart enough to know he's at a disadvantage and plans to even the odds any way possible.

but know this, superman isn't stupid enough to walk up to sum1 w/ kryptonite either.

Again he has other weaknesses.

but since a fair fight doesn't allow him to use kriptonite anyway, batmans even more skrewed.

How do you figure.

If its a "FAIR FIGHT" then both characters are allowed to use any weapon or power at their disposal.Which means Batman can use kryptonite.

^ok, if superman knows about the battle he can just destroy the batcave. then batman couldn't prepare anything. but do you honestly think batman could even compete w/ superman w/o preptime? didn't think so

Again...not in character for Superman do do such a thing.

Why is it that every one keeps bringing up things and actions for Superman to do that just arent in his character to preform?????

All that does is show your lack of logic and knowledge of the character.

More proof of your faulty logic is that Bats already has most of the "prep time" he needs for this fight done years ago.

Next time do some thinking about what the characters are mostly to do before you post such an ill thought up senerio.

 

[Savage]

Or we can go the "Superman/Batman: Public Enemies" route and have Superman fly in, grab Batman's belt, then backhand him unconscious...again. Doesn't involve killing or serious harm or anything. If Superman can fight his villains without fatally wounding them then why can't he do the same for Batman. I mean grab Batman's cape and slam him through a table. Flick him on the forehead. Freeze half of his body. There are just so many ways for Superman to beat Batman without crossing the line that it's not even funny.

No-one's saying that Batman CAN'T beat Superman. The proof is in the pudding. He already has several times. It's just that in a fight Batman would lose. Lex Luthor can't beat Superman in a fight but he can beat him in other ways. Same just happens to go for Batman.

 

[dnno1]

Here's Batman admiting that Superman is more powerful. Even he knows what would happen if they squared off.

 

[scatterax]

@sto_vo_kor_2000, yes, it would be in supermans character to destroy the batcave if he new batman was gonna use kryptonite on him. what wouldn't be in his character is actually letting some1 have enough time to kick his but.

boy some of these "batman wins" arguements are just plain stupid. I mean, if you actually knew the character of superman, you'd know he'd beat batman. Or maybe you just don't know batman if you over estimate him that much. It's sad that so many people have such a blind devotion for batman that they figure the 1 or 2 scenarios of batman actually winning are more likely to happen then the countless scenarios where superman wins.

 

[scatterax]

oh, and you guys remember the version of superman where he stays in the sun for like 1000 years and get's so supercharged that kryptonite doesn't affect him and he can bring people back to life and all sorts of random crap? well I'd love to see some1 come up w/ a scenario where batman beats him then. (u know its gonna involve preptime)

by the way, I'm starting to wonder if superman even needs to try to fight batman to win. I mean all batman needs to do is punch him really hard and his hand would break. and that'd almost be it right there. and if you don't think that's in supes character than why has he just sit there and let beople shooot him b4? (don't bother answering that last question. trust me, ir's for your own good.)

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Double post

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Or we can go the "Superman/Batman: Public Enemies" route and have Superman fly in, grab Batman's belt, then backhand him unconscious...again. Doesn't involve killing or serious harm or anything. If Superman can fight his villains without fatally wounding them then why can't he do the same for Batman. I mean grab Batman's cape and slam him through a table. Flick him on the forehead. Freeze half of his body. There are just so many ways for Superman to beat Batman without crossing the line that it's not even funny.

All of that is possible.I never said it wasnt.

No-one's saying that Batman CAN'T beat Superman.

Actually some have.

The proof is in the pudding. He already has several times. It's just that in a fight Batman would lose. Lex Luthor can't beat Superman in a fight but he can beat him in other ways. Same just happens to go for Batman.

Your definition of "fight" differs from mine but I see what your aiming at..

Here's Batman admiting that Superman is more powerful. Even he knows what would happen if they squared off.

Ummm this wansnt about who's more powerful.

These are the very reasons why Batman cheats and uses what ever means possible to win.

@sto_vo_kor_2000, yes, it would be in supermans character to destroy the batcave if he new batman was gonna use kryptonite on him. what wouldn't be in his character is actually letting some1 have enough time to kick his but.

Show me a single case in which Superman destroyed the head quarters of any of his enemies as a first strike and you'd be right.

boy some of these "batman wins" arguements are just plain stupid. I mean, if you actually knew the character of superman, you'd know he'd beat batman..

If you knew the character you wouldnt have even put forth such a out of character senerio.

Or maybe you just don't know batman if you over estimate him that much. It's sad that so many people have such a blind devotion for batman that they figure the 1 or 2 scenarios of batman actually winning are more likely to happen then the countless scenarios where superman wins.

Care to provide us with those " countless scenarios" in which Superman was in control of himself????

oh, and you guys remember the version of superman where he stays in the sun for like 1000 years and get's so supercharged that kryptonite doesn't affect him and he can bring people back to life and all sorts of random crap? well I'd love to see some1 come up w/ a scenario where batman beats him then. (u know its gonna involve preptime)

Now your going with alternate versions or past incarnations of the character.

Its the sign of a weak debate.

Stick to the most modern in continuity versions of the characters to back up your argument will you.

And as I said Superman has other weakness besides kryptonite.

by the way, I'm starting to wonder if superman even needs to try to fight batman to win. I mean all batman needs to do is punch him really hard and his hand would break. and that'd almost be it right there. and if you don't think that's in supes character than why has he just sit there and let beople shooot him b4? (don't bother answering that last question. trust me, ir's for your own good.)

Trust me buddy the only fool your makeing here is yourself.

In the past Superman has "rolled" with Batmans punches to avoid Bat's breaking a hand.

I'm not saying that he would do it again but it is in Sup's character to avoid Bats hurting himself in a fight.

And if you think Sup's doent have to even try then you have no understanding about either of these characters.

 

[lou2099]

Batman would either have to have Kryptonite or find a way to use Red Sun energy.

I think Superman could kick his Bat-ass before he had a chance to use 'em.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Superman - And I look forward to reading the arguments posted here.

 

[Batman]

There is no sound argument for who would win. It's whoever the person wants it to be, because frankly, the writers over the past sixty plus years who've dealt with this particular issue have given enough arguments for either side.

 

[ant3ros]

There is no sound argument for who would win. It's whoever the person wants it to be, because frankly, the writers over the past sixty plus years who've dealt with this particular issue have given enough arguments for either side.

Writers have to remain somewhat neutral for the sake of creative freedom and for good business sense.

In a serious must-win fight, I think Batman has no chance against someone who can destroy the planet.

 

[terry78]

Writers have to remain somewhat neutral for the sake of creative freedom and for good business sense.

In a serious must-win fight, I think Batman has no chance against someone who can destroy the planet.

By all logic, Batman shouldn't be able to beat most of the superpowered rogues either though. I know they are nowhere near Superman in terms of power, but they're still supernatural in design.

 

[ant3ros]

By all logic, Batman shouldn't be able to beat most of the superpowered rogues either though. I know they are nowhere near Superman in terms of power, but they're still supernatural in design.

No, Batman wins fights because most if not all his fights are based on a variety of situations in which he can anticipate and prepare.

What I'm saying is if the situation was a straight up serious fight, Batman would lose.

 

[Savage]

The thing is Batman's villains have easily exploitable weaknesses. Clayface can be frozen. Mr. Freeze can be melted and his gun has no affect on Batman's cape for some reason. Bane's tube can be pulled.

Superman has a weakness but because of his incredible speed it can't be exploited as easily. Not to mention just hitting the guy is like punching a wall.

Batman can beat a Green Lantern but do you honestly believe he can beat any of them in a fight? There had to be this whole complicated subliminal thing where he made the ring convince the wearer he was blind. Otherwise I think every Lantern has taken a turn punching him in the mouth.

So you see there's beating someone in a fight and just flat out beating them. Batman can beat Superman but he cannot beat him in a fight.

 

[scatterax]

by the way, unless batman always keeps kryptonite in his belt (which he doesn't) you can't coun't it as his usual. Can any1 name 1 time where batman beat superman w/o kryptonite? didn't think so. look, batman beating superman is out of character for both heroes. it's possible, but unlikely. superman winning is much more likely for obvious reasons that where mentioned countless times b4. Each and every 1 of his powers heck, even x-ray vision would help him win. (he could look and see all of what batty has in his belt.) batmans usual gadgets got nothing on supes powers. and his skills whouldn't do much eather. do you think if he tried his hardest to destroy a steal wall w/ his bare hands he could? didn't think so. well supermans stronger than steel, and he can fight back. (altho a few of you seems to believe superman cannot fight back. oddly enough.)

so in a real/fair/ normal fight in the streets/ no preptime fight, superman wins.

so I guess the bottom line is any1 can come up w/ a logical way for batman to beat any character in comic book history if they tried hard enough. but just because batman could beat everybody doesn't mean he would. it is said that the simplest solution is the most likely. I've noticed the scenarios for batman winning are often more complicated and far fetched than the scenarios where superman wins; which hardly take any effort to come up w/. so by that logic alone we no that superman is the more logical victor. and when you take into account that there seems to be only 1 way batman can win (w/ a powerless and weakened superman) and there are countless ways for superman to win. (w/ heat rays, a single punch, super speed atacks, lifting up a great hight than dropping batty, so on so forth) than it becomes even more obvious that superman is the most likely to win.

ps, for an acurate scenario superman needs all his powers at his desposal. cause if he doesn't it becomes kryptonite vs superman, or even lamer, batman vs clark kent. just something for the pro bat side to remember the next time they post. (also, keep in mind that batman doesn't actually cary kryptonite whereever he goes. If you look at batman tech on the history chanel, in 1 scene it shows a schematic of batmans utility belt and everything in it. guess what. no kryptonite.)